LordOfGoblins

"O Friends of God! Be ye assured that in place of these contributions, your agriculture, your industry, and your commerce will be blessed by manifold increases,"

What about this interpretation please???
By increases he means increased effectiveness to have an impact on the world. Or increased to spread the message of God?
Not a direct success as in more money increase???
what do people think? I dont want to bend the meaning to suit what would just satisfy my concern though.

tonyfish58

LOG - To me God will give back to us that will help us on our spiritual journey. That could be to an individual or the group as a whole.

This is a true story and it relates to an individual (a friend and employer of me) and to me how He was Blessed.

This person gave and still gives time and money to Faith in Abundance. He is currently out of work but still has the means to live & denote. This enables him to devote many hours to the cause. (Is that not blessing in abundance?)

He operated a trucking business selling Fruit & vegies to remote communities. When undertaking this business it gave him (and me) many tests. Prayer for protection and remover of difficulties was a daily need. The business always returned what was required for him to live, set up his family comfortably and carry on the work as a Baha'i Teacher and give generously to the fund. In all the years He owned the business it only missed one week of running and that is because of a pending Cyclone. We still managed to sell all the produce at other venues.

The first year he sold the business the road were closed for 8 weeks due to flooding.

To me I get pleasure from seeing the promises in the writings, I think the key is in giving to the fund & undertaking service without expectation of a reward. Abdul'baha's life is that example.

Regards Tony

Napkin

You really believe god was planning a flood but held off until your friend's business closed. Really? I'm sorry, but this is the literal definition of superstition.

Eric

When I read the Dawn-Breakers I fell in love with the sacrifice of the early believers. They gave up their lives in the utmost extacy for their Beloved. To us in the year 168, the sacrifices are far less spectaculair and perhaps even more painful since we have to endure them for such a long time. And the tests we get are often from our fellow believers. The Administrative Order is still in its embryonic stage, it will grow through continues crisis and victory. About a week ago the resource person for youthgroups was in the country and told something very interesting. She said that the most advanced clusters often experience a lot of confusion. For example we're going to open the study cycles for non-Bahá'ís, they will join and what are we supposed to do now? The confusion is needed to get a clear sight later on.

When we consult we choose a direction either by consensus or whichever has the majority of votes. Perhaps you feel it is the wrong way and perhaps you are right, who knows. When we support whatever comes out of the consultation, we're likely to learn faster and if it is indeed the wrong way, it is easily adjustable when having the new experiences.

About the financial aspect, to me personally, the law of Huquq is a favorite. This is because of the attitude required, if I offer it in 'a spirit of joy and radiance, such an act is acceptable, and not otherwise'. And nobody has the right to ask me about it, it is a matter between myself and Bahá'u'lláh.

38. The Right of God is an obligation upon everyone. This commandment hath been revealed and set down in the Book by the Pen of Glory. However, it is not permissible to solicit or demand it. If one is privileged to pay the Huquq, and doeth so in a spirit of joy and radiance, such an act is acceptable, and not otherwise. As a reminder to the friends, a general appeal should be made once at the meeting, and that should suffice. They that are assured, steadfast and endowed with insight will act spontaneously and observe what hath been prescribed by God, thereby reaping the benefit of their own deed. Verily, God is independent of all mankind.

(Compilations, Huququ'llah)

One additional thing to note about the Huquq is how we decide what to offer. We first look at our income and then minus the neccesary expenses (which is up to our conscience to decide). Usually we talk about 19% of this remnant. This is ofcourse possible but actually we need to look at the goldprice and a certain percentage (mitqál). Here comes out a certain amount. When we reach it we can offer it. Ofcourse it is possible to go for the 19%, you'd just be offering sooner than otherwise but in the end it should not make a difference. We can expect that people who are poor might never reach the point of offering. Everyone is ofcourse able to offer anything they like aside from what is calculated.

I think this discussion has also to do with the mysterie of sacrifice, which is giving up something lower for something higher. It does not mean that it doesn't hurt ofcourse. Recently I had a discussion with a friend about the Huquq. We talked about the structure it brings in our lives and about the exercise of spiritual qualities, we need for example detachment. Just the act of thinking about what we actually need and what not helps us in the detaching process and offering the Huquq helps even more.

As it is meant for building a better world, it will eventually come back to us since we're part of it aswell :-).

55. O SON OF BEING!
Busy not thyself with this world, for with fire We test the gold, and with gold We test Our servants.

56. O SON OF MAN!
Thou dost wish for gold and I desire thy freedom from it. Thou thinkest thyself rich in its possession, and I recognize thy wealth in thy sanctity therefrom. By My life! This is My knowledge, and that is thy fancy; how can My way accord with thine?

(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

Rani

Great post Eric! And the Hidden Words you posted, so apt.

cire perdue

Perhaps because he was in tune spiritually he chose the right time to sell. If we are living the life things go well, because we are on the right path for ourselves. One is almost prescient, but not actually, when one is doing God's will for him/herself then we anticipate things or choose well.There are many ways to look at that, including simply wasn't it fortunate that he did the right thing when he did.

This is just like when someone responds to us a certain way and we say that the person doesn't like me due to his tone. Well, maybe the person is upset about something else, has had a bad day. If we choose to put a negative meaning on it, then it limits our responses and thinking. It took me years to learn to get my own stuff out of the way of interacting with others, to not conceptualize what was going on and affect it with my own erroneous thinking.

cire perdue

What great thoughts about the organic process we are going through and learning. We are at 168 in a world that is absolutely in no way like the world at 68 BE. So many people, so much technology. There is more to learn and we probably have 200 years before the Faith really affects the world directly as Christinity did about the same time. It's good to hear of the activity, as I am in a place where there are only 6 Baha'is. However it is important to stand fast!

Napkin

To me, this is contradictory. If your friend was inspired by god to just know when to sell, then all the super rich are also being directed by god. The top 1% are all so spiritual that they know exactly when to buy and sell. Donald Trump is a spiritual leader! Contradictory!

LordOfGoblins

Napkin you have to look at it that we are living in a world where we can never abandon material means completely. The point is that they are seconday to our spiritual lives. Bahais are not encouraged to go and become monks or that money is evil.
Baha'u'llah says he has 'confirmed the use of material means'. You have to think about these things to see how they make sense. It might be confusing at first but I had a lot of issues as well and slowely I have come to see a shape of how it works. Ultimately though there are some questions that I still dont know how to answer, but I understand that it is a process so it doesnt bother me so much.

Napkin

I totally understand that goblin. I know any organization needs money to run.

I am just having a hard time warping my mind around how any one in the year 2012, can believe if they give god money, god will make their next paycheck bigger. How can anyone believe that? I thought churches do this stuff to make money. I never thought the Bahai faith would have this too!!

LordOfGoblins

Napkin that quote gives me trouble too to be honest. It is one quote that seems out of place with the rest of the Bahai writings.
I am just going to go ahead and say the way around it for me was to put it aside for now until I can understand why such a quote exists.
Anyway one possibility might be that Abdul'Baha is talking about the blessings that the Bahais will recieve as a whole. Not an immediate reward for each individual or family as a direct result of giving, but a long term increase to the Bahais in distinguishing themselves as successful people in this world in a material way (as well as the more important spiritual).
For example I know a Bahai where I live that has won many awards for lecturing as a professor in media studies and distinguishing himself in his field (industry). I think of this as a blessing that results from being a Bahai for him.

cire perdue

It's called faith. It does seem superstitious. I spent my entire Baha'i life making peace with the fact that faith is an inner process that only made my life better. It is definitely a processs. I am horrified to admit when with my 91 year old aunt I prayed for a parking place and we got it. If we had not we could not have gone to eat. I think however my prayer was answered before I thought it. I have felt as exactly as you do. I am much, much happier now. PS My paycheck did not get bigger, darn!, I got happier. God is the God we come to understand, a process, not a destination. I know I will spend now and "later" always coming to understand God. It beats the life I lead before.

blessings

...your presence on the board, your comments, humor, and sometimes curt replies are a source of blessings to me. Don't know why, don't care, but your presence speaks to my heart in a way I can hear. thank you

blessings

tonyfish58

I did a reply to this some time back & then lost power in a storm. I noticed cire perdue has covered the answer well

No I do not think that at all, that is what you have implied to the story, that's Ok we all think differently.

I think when we devote ourselves to God and Pray we are more in tune with the world. Thus as cire perdue has stated, my friend owned the business between the events that happened. Since that time the road closed many more times.

On a Personal note when I left that job (Could not work with the New Owner) I walked out into no employment prospects, it was a hard decision. The same week a Job came up and I have been working in the same field now for over 20 years.

I believe every soul is looked after.

All the martyrs of the Faith had their appointed time. No Earthly power could silence them before this time.

Regards Tony

MichaelAW

If you help mankind become closer to un ity , by supporting the faith, you make a better world for you, all others and your children and their children, so to me the pay back is huge , as far as your family breaking up , that is sad, my folks split when i was 4, if they had been Bahai and truly lived the life, i doubt they wouldhave split. We do have to accept some responsibility for our own actions don't we?

spirit

"


As Bahais we are taught to look at these words spiritually, not literally. Has everyone forgotten that? I'm not attacking anyone I'm just calling a spade a spade. Suppose wealth doesn't mean money? Why are you all assuming you understand the context of the writing? That is why I ask if you are enlightened?
If you believe that giving money to the fund brings good Karma (I think that is what you are saying?) that could well be true, but if you tell someone to give so that they can get good from God you produce "guilt" that's wrong in the approach and I understand the op's concern.

tonyfish58

I do not think anyone has forgotten anything

We may have not learned enough yet and it is not as clear cut as you think it may be IMHO Personally no one should give to the fund if in doing so they would expect some reward, I would feel guilty if I contributed in this way.

True Wealth is not money, that is very apparent in the writings, anything of this world is useless in the end.

But while we live here it gives means to an end & money drives the world at this time

Giving to the fund is a BOUNTY that all believers can share in and only believers. If we give in the spirit of Faith then the writings do say there is an effect. It is not how much, it is the sacrifice that counts.

It is up to each individual if they choose to take this path, no one can force and no one can blame. What comes of this is left to the Bounty that God may bestow upon us.

Regards Tony

spirit

thats an excellent answer I'm wondering why that wasn't the answer that was given to the op at the start! Perfect!