Napkin

Maybe this is an issue with our LSA or maybe this is just how things are?

Since I joined the faith about 2 years ago I have been going to the 19 day feast mainly to enjoy meditative effects of group prayer.

What is really beginning to turn me off is the repeated and aggressive demand for money.
If you are a new bahai in my community, you would quickly be led to believe that these guys simply want your money. They use peer pressure, they say prayers about obedience followed by prayers about contributing followed by repeated reminders that they need money. All they talk about is money. What in the world is going on?

They have asked us to contribute about a million times and when we asked them to hold a fund raiser to help a community member in need of food!!!! they said no!!!!! That is not the LSA's job!!!! the member turned to a local church!!!!! they helped her!!!!

arthra

I don't know how it is in your community..but I've been a Baha'i starting around 1965 and lived in three Baha'i communities. There has never been where I live such a call for "money" as you suggest.. You may want to personally consult with your Assembly about this or discuss it with an Auxilery Board Member later.

Contributions to the fund are always voluntary and no one comes to you and asks you personally to contribute money..

There are fund drives for various purposes and anyone who wishes to can contribute but we never announce who contributed..as it is confidential.

Back in 2004 there was a dreadful fire in a neighboring community and an elderly Baha'i and her daughter lost their home. The Baha'is took her and her daughter into their homes and gathered to help rebuild their home over a period of four years or so.. Today she lives in her home because of the help rendered her family.

Our Baha'i communities are generally small where I live but my community manages to offer a scholarship year after year to deserving students.

We have a Baha'i Center nearby that most people support in some way or other.. whether it be by helping paint it when needed or clearing off weeds and debris and nobody is ever asked for the help it is voluntary.

You may also be interested in reading some of the guidelines for Baha'i funds here:

Voluntary participation is the key to the financing of the Bahá’í Faith's many programs. At the beginning of the Bahá’í year, each local or national spiritual assembly decides on the budget required to carry out the projects for that particular year, whether related to teaching goals, property purchase and development projects, administrative expenses, or community services. These needs are then announced to the Bahá’í community.

The professional "fund-raising" often associated with religious and charitable organizations is not permitted in a Bahá’í community. Only general appeals may be made; individual canvassing is prohibited.

All contributions are voluntary, and anything suggestive of psychological manipulation is condemned. Moreover, the contributions are kept confidential between the individual or family and the treasurer of the institution to whom the contribution is made.

Source:

http://www.bahai.org/misc/fund

Napkin

Maybe it is just our LSA then. How should I approach them? I spoke with a few community members and the general understanding is that our LSA does nothing for the community and they continuously remind us that we need to contribute.

LordOfGoblins

Honestly I feel this is one part of certain communities in the Bahai faith that needs to be looked at and perhaps improved. The reason why I say this is because the first thing that struck me about the Bahai community when I came back to feasts after being away for sometime was the sortof constant encouragement to give to the fund. Yes I understand that the fund is very important however. What is the comparison of money to actuall service? Isnt this having the emphasis abit backwards? Religion is not supposed to be about material things. I get that the faith needs money to run as the administrative component runs in the material world but on the other hand I do wish our LSA secretary will lighten up on the "we need just a few more thousand"...
I mean do we really need that money so badly? Whats going to happen if the Bahai world centre does not get that extra two or three thousand?
It seems abit of wrong emphasis for me.

Napkin

Agreed! Especially in a world where many people are under the impression that religions just want your money.

arthra

Any Baha'i should be able to "approach" their Assembly and feel it is in confidence and that the consultation will be in prayer...

The purpose is to emphasize the statement that consultation must have for its object the investigation of truth. He who expresses an opinion should not voice it as correct and right but set it forth as a contribution to the consensus of opinion, for the light of reality becomes apparent when two opinions coincide. A spark is produced when flint and steel come together. Man should weigh his opinions with the utmost serenity, calmness and composure.

Before expressing his own views he should carefully consider the views already advanced by others. If he finds that a previously expressed opinion is more true and worthy, he should accept it immediately and not willfully hold to an opinion of his own. By this excellent method he endeavors to arrive at unity and truth. Opposition and division are deplorable. It is better then to have the opinion of a wise, sagacious man; otherwise, contradiction and altercation, in which varied and divergent views are presented, will make it necessary for a judicial body to render decision upon the question.

Even a majority opinion or consensus may be incorrect. A thousand people may hold to one view and be mistaken, whereas one sagacious person may be right. Therefore, true consultation is spiritual conference in the attitude and atmosphere of love. Members must love each other in the spirit of fellowship in order that good results may be forthcoming. Love and fellowship are the foundation.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 72

.

Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 406

It may be some are unaware that their method of fund raising is causing concern...

Napkin

I find this part interesting.
I received an envelope from national. Inside I found 5 notable items;

1) A prayer by Bahaullah about contributing ".....in place of those contributions, your agriculture, your industry, and your commerce will be blessed by manifold increases....."

2) Examples of people just like you who are doing what we think you should be doing...."homeless and disabled believer who gives a few dollars...."

3) An element of fear; "...The state of the world is growing darker as the days go by......."

4) Make a promise; contributing will progress your soul.

5) Reminder of ways you can contribute; online, by mail, etc.

I Plan on using this package for a school project and at the end conduct a poll of university students and instructors to see if they consider this psychological pressure but I am fairly certain that is exactly what this is. Then I plan on presenting my poll results to the national. This should be fun

The problem is, most people do not fall fall for this sort of collection attempt. Most people will brush this off and run from the Baha'i faith which is very sad. Considering Bahaullah's true intentions and what these people are doing now, its just sad I suspect this is why teaching attempts always focus on poor immigrants who might still fall for this type of presentation.

cire perdue

Your age is very obvious from the way you criticize the Faith of which you are a member. I received that same folder and only felt badly that I could not give more. THE maturity of one's spiritual development is demonstrated by their attitude about the fund. You are very naive to think that the Faith does not require money. I hope you will be more considerate and thoughtful before you criticize issues in the Faith especially publically.

You may have joined the Faith, but it is more important to believe in it and have a spiritual connection. Someone who wants to work as hard as you are willing to discredit this Faith sounds very conflicted. I hope you will sit down with a long time believer with some of your doubts and refrain airing your personal issues in public. You have very unrealistic ideals. I hope you figure that out and also obtain a spiritual connection to Baha'u'llah who in effect you are criticizing.

cire perdue

79. O SON OF DESIRE!
How long wilt thou soar in the realms of desire? Wings have I bestowed upon thee, that thou mayest fly to the realms of mystic holiness and not the regions of satanic fancy. The comb, too, have I given thee that thou mayest dress My raven locks, and not lacerate My throat.
(Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)

The Kingdom of God on earth will be brought on by organization. It will be done by people who have no vested interests unlike all other forms of government on the planet today. Only the most navie or those who are not connected to reality will think that this can be done without organization and money. It is sad to see unbridled intellect without perspective or maturity criticize what it does not comprehend yet. One makes a committment when one becomes a Baha'i that is like a marriage. One predictor of a failed marriage is where partners criticize the other personally. It bodes badly for the person who does this. Ignorance is the right of every human being, their right to be at that state, but it s a privilege to be raised above that state by spiritual means.

If one were to belong to a church one would be asked to tithe 10%. You would make a pledge and you would be contacted if you are late or do not pay. It is considerably more intrusive and not particularly secret. In some cases you would get special envelopes that can be put in the collection plate and visible to others.

tonyfish58

It is OK for an LSA to ask for money (By the methods suggested in your post), after all they have to set a budget and then honor that commitment. If you think that it is mentioned too much at the Feast, then you have the right to bring it up to be discussed.

The budget is usually set taking into account the amount of believers in the area and the History of the past donations.

"An individual Bahá'í is, of course, free to contribute to charity from his own resources if he wishes, but as a Bahá'í he should bear in mind the needs of the Bahá'í Fund, which only believers can support."

(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to a Local Spiritual Assembly, March 19, 1973)

"When a Bahá'í finds it essential to seek the help of others, and after his own efforts and those of his family and close friends have proved inadequate, he may certainly turn to his Local Spiritual Assembly, which will consult on his problem, extend a helping hand to him, if the conditions of the Local Fund permit, and even more importantly, will counsel and advise him on what opportunities are open to him, and what steps he might take to seek a solution to his problem. If the Local Assembly feels that the help or guidance of the National Assembly should be sought, it will no doubt refer the matter to the National Assembly."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, September 1, 1980: Giving to the Poor, A Compilation of the Universal House of Justice)

"Regarding your question concerning helping the poor: The Bahá'ís should not go so far as to refrain from extending charity to the needy, if they are able and willing to do so. However, in this, as in many other things, they should exert moderation. The greatest gift that we can give to the poor and the down-trodden is to aid to build up the divine institutions inaugurated in this day by Bahá'u'lláh as these institutions, and this World Order when established, will eliminate the causes of poverty and the injustices which afflict the poor. We should, therefore, do both, support our Bahá'í Fund, and also be kind and generous to the needy."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, March 11, 1942)

We should give as much as we can, after all in the long run all we really do not need much

Cheers Tony

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napkin The problem is, most people do not fall fall for this sort of collection attempt. Most people will brush this off and run from the Baha'i faith....

You appear to be ignoring two important facts:

1. ONLY Baha'is are permitted to contribute to the Baha'i Funds: contributions from others are neither solicited nor accepted for these funds. Those who might "run from the Baha'i Faith" aren't in a position to contribute anyway!
2. Baha'i contributions are strictly voluntary! NO ONE "checks up" to see what--if anything--anyone else contributes, and indeed such checking is itself prohibited! No contribution ever happens save at that individual's decision.

So you protest too much, methinks!

Bruce

arthra

Napkin wrote:

I Plan on using this package for a school project and at the end conduct a poll of university students and instructors to see if they consider this psychological pressure but I am fairly certain that is exactly what this is. Then I plan on presenting my poll results to the national. This should be fun

I don't know napkin....

It sounds like you're convinced:

No body should ask you for money or anything of value to support others..it's too much psychological pressure!.

Maybe you should conduct your poll about the IRS?

How about a contribution to PETA or the World Wildlife Fund...? or well...you name it..

Celerity

I'm a little concerned about using this as a school project as well. My understanding is that your project... if it specifically mentions Baha'i contributions in it... would in a way be spreading the faith to the many students you would be polling. While it is important to spread the faith (and ones' experiences with it) in a truthful manner, it also isn't necessarily in good interest to go out spreading something that you seem to have determined to be a shortcoming.

Furthermore, even if you don't mention the Baha'i Faith in your poll/project, I still worry that others in your school who know that you are a Baha'i might assume that the inspiration for this poll question came from your experiences with Baha'i gatherings. While it is unfortunate that they would seemingly be correct, it would be even less fortunate for them to even have an inkling of an idea that the Baha'i Faith is out to take money from its members.

Napkin

Thank you guys for your input. Let me direct this convo a little.....

My original concern was with not being able to find any proof that Baha'i funds are directly helping the poor. Maybe the evidence is out there, I just cant find it. can someone here help me find it?

First thing I learned about the Baha'i faith was that Bahaulla was a rich guy. He gave it all up! He gave up living in expensive buildings and "he was all about helping the poor". I've never heard that Bahaullah went around the world asking for money to build massive buildings.

**I am not asking for proof of efforts that will ONE DAY help humanity. I am looking for efforts that are helping the poor right now, feeding the hungry, playing for medicine, etc. (In the 90's, the cracked down and closed thousands of organizations across Mexico. These organization were claiming that your donations would go towards helping the poor, but for now all the money goes towards building the organization itself)

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napkin I am not asking for proof of efforts that will ONE DAY help humanity. I am looking for efforts that are helping the poor right now, feeding the hungry, playing for medicine, etc..

Then you might check out the Baha'i community in the Pacific Northwest that runs a soup kitchen to feed migrant workers, which operation intentionally delays any mention of the Baha'i Faith until 30 minutes after the end of serving so that no one has to listen to anything he or she doesn't choose to hear.

Peace,

Bruce

Napkin

Thank you! Do you know if they have a website?

arthra

Napkin:

You might be interested in the following site:

Social and Economic Development

Also offer yourself for what we call a "year of service"

"A relatively new feature of the Bahá’í system has been the development of a series of national and regional training institutes which are aimed at increasing the capacity of the Bahá’í community to render service to humanity at large. Generally using an approach of distance learning through the deployment of tutors at the grassroots level, these institutes are designed to help members of the Bahá’í community and other interested individuals acquire the kinds of attitudes, skills, and capabilities that are necessary to help foster the development of the peaceful and prosperous world civilization envisioned in the Bahá’í writings."

Service to Humanity – Bahai Faith | Baha'i Faith | United States Official Website

tonyfish58

How about Charity Funds - Shoghi Effendi on the Charity Fund

411. Charity is the Very Essence of the Teachings

"This Bahá'í teaching of human fellowship and kindness implies that we must be always ready to extend every assistance and help we can to those who are in distress and suffering. Bahá'í charity is of the very essence of the Teachings, and should therefore be developed in every Bahá'í community. Charitable institutions such as orphanages, free schools and hospitals for the poor, constitute an indispensable part of the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar. It is the responsibility of every local Bahá'í community to insure the welfare of its poor and needy members, through whatever means possible.

"But, of course, this extension of assistance to the poor, in whatever form should under no circumstances be allowed to seriously interfere with the major collective interests of the Bahá'í Community, as distinguished from the purely personal interests of its members. The demands of the Cause transcend those of the individual, and should therefore be given precedence. But these two phases of Bahá'í social life, though not of equal importance, are by no means contradictory. Both of them are essential, and should be fostered, but each according to its own degree of importance. It is the responsibility of Bahá'í Assemblies to decide when individual interests should be subordinated to those affecting the collective welfare of the community. But, as already stated, the interest of the individual should always be safeguarded within certain limits, and provided they do not seriously affect the welfare of the group as a whole."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, June 26, 1936)

412. Contributions to Charity by Assemblies and Individuals

"First there is the principle that any believer may sell personal services or property to anyone and do with the proceeds as he wishes, including giving any or all of them to Bahá'í purposes. Thus if a Bahá'í concert artist gives a concert to which admission is charged, he is free, if he so wishes, to give the money so earned to the Fund or to any charity of his choice. In giving the concert, however, he should not represent to non-Bahá'ís that the concert is for the benefit of the Bahá'í Fund or is given on behalf of Bahá'ís for a charity, which brings us to the second principle: That it is improper for Bahá'ís to solicit funds from non-Bahá'ís in the name of the Faith for any purpose. If a non-Bahá'í insists on making a monetary contribution it may be accepted with the express understanding that it will be used only for charitable or philanthropic purposes, but such contributions should be discouraged, not encouraged.

"The third principle concerns contributions made to charity by Bahá'ís themselves. Spiritual Assemblies are, of course, permitted to make contributions to charity--indeed care of the poor and needy is one of the duties assigned to them in the Bahá'í Writings--but they must weigh their responsibilities very carefully and remember that in a highly organised country like the United Kingdom the poor are helped by a multitude of agencies, both governmental and private, whereas only the Bahá'ís can contribute towards the building of the Kingdom of God on earth. This, clearly, is a matter for wise moderation. Assemblies, moreover, should perform their charitable works with a pure motive, and not with the thought of propagandizing for the Faith.

"An individual Bahá'í is, of course, free to contribute to charity from his own resources if he wishes, but as a Bahá'í he should bear in mind the needs of the Bahá'í Fund, which only believers can support."

(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to a Local Spiritual Assembly, March 19, 1973)

Regards Tony

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napkin Do you know if they have a website?

Sorry: no idea! (The more so given that I'm on the East Coast.)

Peace, :-)

Bruce

bahaigirl

Although it is obligatory for us to contribute to the fund, it is also completely voluntary. No one has the right to demand money from anyone as this is between you and God. I am sorry you are dealing with such pressure. If it persists, maybe you could ask for guidance from the NSA.

Napkin

I guess I am confused. Giving to the fund is obligatory and voluntary at the same time?

InvestigateTruth

Giving to the fund is voluntary.
The law of the Right of God, which is 19% is obligatory. Similar to fasting, or obligatory prayers.
But it is upto each indivsual to practice these laws, and no one can go and collect money for the Right of God, or tell someone why he doesn't say the obligatory prayer.
However, as a whole, it may be reminded to the comunity, in the gatherings by anyone.

arthra

There is a lovely excerpt about Huququ'llah from Baha'u'llah in a compilation:

O Zayn! Upon thee be My glory and My loving-kindness. Nothing that existeth in the world of being hath ever been or ever will be worthy of mention.

However, if a person be graciously favoured to offer a penny-worth -- nay even less -- in the path of God, this would in His sight be preferable and superior to all the treasures of the earth.

It is for this reason that the one true God -- exalted be His glory -- hath in all His heavenly Scriptures praised those who observe His precepts and bestow their wealth for His sake.

Beseech ye God that He may enable everyone to discharge the obligation of Huquq, inasmuch as the progress and promotion of the Cause of God depend on material means.

If His faithful servants could realize how meritorious are benevolent deeds in these days, they would all arise to do that which is meet and seemly. In His hand is the source of authority and He ordaineth as He willeth.

He is the Supreme Ruler, the Bountiful, the Equitable, the Revealer, the All-Wise.

~ Compilations, Huququ'llah

Read the compilation at

http://bahai-library.com/compilation_huququllah

tonyfish58

I guess you just have to look at it as a bounty. if you do not want to give then you do not have to.

If you do give and it is a sacrifice, then this is rewarded spiritually. When you do give under these circumstances it is spiritually fulfilling.

I can tell many stories of how funds became available for projects when the Baha'i's had just about given up on being able to complete the project. It is amazing stuff.

An example is this - The Baha'is of Normanton in Far North Queensland Australia needed a sum of $650.00 to finish the Baha'i Center & Gardens before the opening night. They had expended every fund and donation that was available. There was no hope of sourcing any more money (You can not request funds from Baha'is elsewhere unless the NSA has authorized this & the project.

The day before the opening a Baha'i Representative came up from a Baha'i LSA of Innisfail for the opening. This Baha'i had brought a cheque for $650.00 that had been donated by the Baha'is of Innisfail for the project. The work was done before the opening

It was an amazing spiritual uplift for all that contributed to this project and an amazing confirmation of the spiritual bounty given if you donate to the cause.

Over the years I have also noticed that Baha'is that give freely to the fund always seen to maintain an income that supports this giving.

Regards Tony

cire perdue

$650 was a lot of money back then, too, like enough for rent for a year!

Rani

I think giving to the Fund is about putting our trust in God, and recognising that all we have has issued from His grace.
-All we have comes from Him, and it is a matter of trust, love and gratitude to give some back for the support and furtherance of His Cause.
Yes, the Cause can't work on nothing. Money is needed for admin, organisation, Houses of Worship, teaching, and relief of the poor.
There is a Disaster Relief Fund that has been set up by the Universal House of Justice that is designed for the relief of those around the world when a natural disaster occurs, such as floods, droughts, tsunami.. etc.
It is a spiritual responsibility but no-one has the right to check up to see if you are contributing. It is up to us to decide what we feel we should or can give.

I agree with you that more needs to be done for helping the poor. I guess it's because we are in the early days of the Faith when our numbers are small, more focus has been about developing our communities.
I suggest you can always write to the NSA to voice your concern, and your desire that the Baha'i Faith be a source of relief for the poor. I agree with you in this regard.

Forgive me if there are too many quotes but I found them all quite pertinent.


80. O thou who art turning thy face to God! Thy letter was received. From its contents it became known that thy wish is to serve the poor. What wish better than this! Those souls who are of the Kingdom eagerly wish to be of service to the poor, to sympathize with them, to show kindness to the miserable and to make their lives fruitful. Happy art thou that thou hast such a wish.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 115)

We can do a bit of both.. Giving to the Fund for the needs of the Cause, and giving to the poor, either thru charity set up by the Faith, or outside charities.


839. Service Every Believer Can Render

"... Contributing to the Fund is a service that every believer can render, be he poor or wealthy; for this is a spiritual responsibility in which the amount given is not important. It is the degree of the sacrifice of the giver, the love with which he makes his gift, and the unity of all the friends in this service which bring spiritual confirmations....'

(From letter of the Universal House of Justice to the Bahá'ís of the East and the West, December 18, 1963: Wellspring of Guidance, pp. 19-20)


844. Giving to the Fund is a Spiritual Privilege

"Giving to the Fund, therefore, is a spiritual privilege, not open to those who have not accepted Bahá'u'lláh, of which no believer should deny himself. It is both a responsibility and a source of bounty. This is an aspect of the Cause which, we feel, is an essential part of the basic teaching and deepening of new believers. The importance of contributing resides in the degree of sacrifice of the giver, the spirit of devotion with which the contribution is made and the unity of the friends in this service; these attract the confirmations of God and enhance the dignity and self-respect of the individuals and the community."

(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to all National Spiritual Assemblies, August 7, 1985)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 250)


842. Should Not Incur Debts for Purpose of Contributing to Fund

"Even though Shoghi Effendi would urge every believer to sacrifice as much as possible for the sake of contributing towards the fund of the National Assembly, yet he would discourage the friends to incur debts for that purpose. We are asked to give what we have, not what we do not posses, especially if such an act causes suffering to others. In such matters we should use judgement and wisdom and take into our confidence other devoted Bahá'ís."

(From letter written on behalf of the Guardian, dated May 4, 1932, to an individual believer: Bahá'í Funds and Contributions, p.4)


837. Responsibility of Every Bahá'í

"... Every Bahá'í, no matter how poor, must realize what a grave responsibility he has to shoulder in this connection, and should have confidence that his spiritual progress as a believer in the World Order of Bahá'u'lláh will largely depend upon the measure in which he proves, in deeds, his readiness to support materially the Divine institutions of his Faith."

(From letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 249)

spirit

tonyfish...how do you know this? So your saying if you give money and its a sacrifice you will be rewarded spiritually? I don't really think your in a position to say that. Unless of course you are spiritually enlightened.

Napkin

I personally know dozens on welfare who give to the fund. I know people committing welfare fraud for years and giving to the fund the entire time. and there are rich people who give to the fund. so lets not use the actions or circumstances of a few to make broad statements.

I see how "giving" in general can fulfill you spiritually, parting with money helps you mature, yes I get it.

BUT how can one claim that if you give money to the fund, god will return that money to you manifolds?(Abdulbaha). People believe that? How can you believe that? If you believe that, surely you must believe in mystical supernatural powers and I do not think that is what the faith is about. My understanding was that the Bahai teachings are about realistic concepts that agree with science. If so, how can they claim that if I contribute, I'll get a raise?
NOTE: I see how "giving" in general can fulfill you spiritually, I also understand if you believe without questioning, then it all makes sense. Please help resolve my confusion if you know of a different approach

arthra

I see how "giving" in general can fulfill you spiritually, parting with money helps you mature, yes I get it.

BUT how can one claim that if you give money to the fund, god will return that money to you manifolds?(Abdulbaha). People believe that? How can you believe that? If you believe that, surely you must believe in mystical supernatural powers and I do not think that is what the faith is about. My understanding was that the Bahai teachings are about realistic concepts that agree with science. If so, how can they claim that if I contribute, I'll get a raise?
NOTE: I see how "giving" in general can fulfill you spiritually, I also understand if you believe without questioning, then it all makes sense. Please help resolve my confusion if you know of a different approach

.....................................

Napkin,

No offence but how come you refer to "god" without caps?

You know when people are willing to sacrifice for the Cause of God whether it be a few cents or hundreds of pesos...it's a sacrifice for them... and I believe it stirs up an energy or maybe a synergy..

Synergy may be defined as two or more things functioning together to produce a result not independently obtainable.

Synergy usually arises when two persons with different complementary skills cooperate. In business, cooperation of people with organizational and technical skills happens very often. In general, the most common reason why people cooperate is that it brings a synergy. On the other hand, people tend to specialize just to be able to form groups with high synergy (see also division of labor and teamwork).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy


But let's check out some references below:


It is not the amount of the contribution that is important, but the degree of self-sacrifice that it entails -- for it is this that attracts the confirmations of God."

rom letter of the Universal House of Justice to all National Assemblies receiving assistance from the Bahá'í International Fund, April 13, 1975)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 250)

So what would be a "confirmation" for you? It's probably different for each person.

The importance of contributing resides in the degree of sacrifice of the giver, the spirit of devotion with which the contribution is made and the unity of the friends in this service; these attract the confirmations of God and enhance the dignity and self-respect of the individuals and the community."

(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to all National Spiritual Assemblies, August 7, 1985)

Attracting the confirmations of God.


"What do you mean by the confirmations of the Spirit?"

"The confirmations of the Spirit are all those powers and gifts which some are born with (and which men sometimes call genius), but for which others have to strive with infinite pains. They come to that man or woman who accepts his life with radiant acquiescence."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 120

So nobody is saying that if you contribute sacrificially it means you'll find a Lexus parked in your drive way with the keys ready to go tomorrow morning.

There is no "prosperity theology" here.

Napkin

Sorry but they do say that.
"O Friends of God! Be ye assured that in place of these contributions, your agriculture, your industry, and your commerce will be blessed by manifold." —‘Abdu’l-Bahá
Unless they mean your commerce will be blessed spiritually, I'm pretty sure that is a direct reference to money?

rushdy

Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwoow... Chillax peoples!! Damn!

first of all, Cire perdue, you need to chill!The guy has every right to question and express his opinions whether publicly or privately. The point of any forum is to have free discussions and it usually promotes freedom of speech. I believe that the Baha'i faith does promote such concepts. NO ONE should FEAR expressing the faith!! In addition, i think your comment is very provoking to any young member on this forum! The attitude of "i am older, so i know better" should NEVER be used in trying to express a point to the younger generation.

Napkin, I totally agree with what you are saying! There should not be constant pressure on the funds as it devalues the idea of contributing. There are much more connective ways to ask for the funds than an envelop with such items. I do encourage you to write your opinion to the LSA or NSA. You are trying to express the idea that you dont want the faith to sound like a corporation or other religious institutes that are strictly interested in your presence for your contributions.

A few months ago, i took a course called ISGP which is Baha'i inspired. the course talks about social development and so on. There were around 7 videos that i have never seen before that showed various NGO that were funded by the Baha'i faith and how they are affecting there societies. After watching these videos, i felt that every Baha'i should watch those videos to see with their own eyes how their contribution unfolds. It really made me motivated to give as much as i can to the funds because i just picture how my money helps people around the world and how much i love my faith for making me love humanity to that extend!

4ourbestoutcome

Quite a thread indeed! I have belonged to Christian churches before with the whole "envelope" thing, and I did not give a 10% tithe. I gave some, but at the time, had I given 10%, I would have ended up with my electric cut off or something as I was not in a high paying job by any means. The members of the church were never questioned or pressured about the amount. And yes-the financial secretary would give a record for tax purposes, but I didn't care. I assisted at one point in processing the collection plate, and I distinctly recall a married couple living in a more affluent area, and they gave maybe $10per week, which was as much as I was doing, but it was like, whatever. I "knew" how much they contributed, but so what-it wasn't for me to judge, and I realized the whole envelope deal literally is just for people to claim on the taxes here in the US, but I'd have preferred an anoymous collection. I didn't care who contributed what-it was a church for goodness sake. Oh, there were campaigns where members were asked to give a promise amount for the upcoming year, but members were not forced or hounded, so I can say from personal experience that at least there are Christian churches that do not require/enforce a 10% tithe, let alone hound and demand. In Judaism, there is a set membership fee to belong to the synagogue, so that's all up front to belong, period. In the church I belonged to, there were groups of people that donated time to shelters and habitat for humanity,etc, so charitable acts were done, but not forced. As for me, I belong not to any organized body at this point in my life, but I donate to causes on my own.

arthra

Napkin,

Why not quote the entire prayer?


THE FUND

"All the friends of God ... should contribute to the extent possible, however modest their offering may be. God doth not burden a soul beyond its capacity. Such contributions must come from all centers and all believers. ... O Friends of God! Be ye assured that in place of these contributions, your agriculture, your industry, and your commerce will be blessed by manifold increases, with goodly gifts and bestowals. He who cometh with one goodly deed will receive a tenfold reward. There is no doubt that the living Lord will abundantly confirm those who expend their wealth in His path."

O God, my God! Illumine the brows of Thy true lovers, and support them with angelic hosts of certain triumph. Set firm their feet on Thy straight path, and out of Thine ancient bounty open before them the portals of Thy blessings; for they are expending on Thy pathway what Thou hast bestowed upon them, safeguarding Thy Faith, putting their trust in their remembrance of Thee, offering up their hearts for love of Thee, and withholding not what they possess in adoration for Thy Beauty and in their search for ways to please Thee.

O my Lord! Ordain for them a plenteous share, a destined recompense and sure reward.

Verily, Thou art the Sustainer, the Helper, the Generous, the Bountiful, the Ever-Bestowing.

- 'Abdu'l-Bahá 85

(Compilations, Baha'i Prayers, p. 82)

"He who cometh with one goodly deed will receive a tenfold reward."

I think this relates to the concept of synergy I noted above!

Also I think one of the great privileges we have as Baha'is is that

(1) only Baha'is can contribute to the Fund

At present all Bahá'í Funds are maintained voluntarily, and by declared believers only. The Cause does not
accept money, except for charitable distribution, from people who are not members of the Faith. This is a clear indication of the spiritual basis of the Fund.

only those who have already identified themselves with the Faith and are regarded as its avowed and unreserved supporters should be invited to join and collaborate

http://bahai-library.com/compilation...ation#Declared Believers Only

and through our elected representatives

(2) the funds are there for us to consult on and use as we decide..

of course anyone can "earmark" their contributions for special purposes as well.

LordOfGoblins

But how can that be true? Surely we cannot suggest that when we give to the fund our financial situation and our financially related affiairs are blessed with a manifold increase?
Certainly that is not what happened in my family history.
I dont get that statement at all.

tonyfish58

"Unless of course you are spiritually enlightened". I see you are in great doubt about the comment, but there was no need to attack...Agreed?

"There is no doubt that the living Lord will abundantly confirm those who expend their wealth in His path".
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Bahá’í Prayers, p. 83

"The overwhelming majority of the Bahá'ís in the world are poor people, but it is to the believers, and to the believers alone, that Bahá'u'lláh has given the bounty of contributing the material things of this world for the progress of His Faith. It is not the amount of the contribution that is important, but the degree of self-sacrifice that it entails -- for it is this that attracts the confirmations of God."
(From letter of the Universal House of Justice, April 13, 1975)

"Whosoever comes with one good act, God will give him tenfold. There is no doubt that the living Lord shall assist and confirm the generous soul."
('Abdu'l-Bahá to the friends in the east and the west: Star of The West, Vol. 6, No. 17, p. 139)

I have personally received and witness others receive spiritual blessings re fund contributions or working for the cause

These are mine and their rewards. I guess you will just have to experience this for yourself?

The story I posted above is one of those blessings. I can ensure you this was a very spiritual rewarding occasion to all the Baha'is that were blessed to attend this occasion

Regards Tony

LordOfGoblins

Dam this is really bugging me.
How do we expect material blessings to come on us from giving to the fund? It cannot be like that. Saying we will get blessings is one thing, but saying we should expect "manifold increases" is very specific statement.
IS this s mis-translation? Because many Bahais give to the fund and are in poverty their whole lives unless I am mistaken. And that is the beauty of it as far as I am concerned.
Makes no sense...

tonyfish58

I think it is the big picture you have to look at, not to an individuals wealth.

I never expect to gain wealth for contributing to the fund, matter of fact I expect nothing, the reward to me is the giving.

How great is agriculture in the world today when viewed to what it was 150 years ago? Has it not had manifold increases? Etc for the other things.

These gains could be because Baha'is have sacrificed to the funds?

Its the big picture we must look towards as wealth means not a thing in this life

Regards Tony

tonyfish58

Don't let it bother you

As I suggested above to me it is the big picture. To me mankind has been blessed with increases

Sorry must get out of here - Lots of big electrical storms around - Catch you ron

Cheers Tony

LordOfGoblins

AHHHHHHHHHHHH...
If your translation is the correct one that really helps me.
In other words. Dont expect it for your family but expect it to the human race or the Bahai people of the world?
He does say "your" three times though...


I guess I should give some background as to why it bugs me.
My dad lost his job during a mid-life chrisis and we had to sell the house and lost a lot of money. Now that does not bug my in itself because I understand that God tests us. But it does bug me in light of this statement because there was no manifold increases and our family was giving to the fund the whole time.

tonyfish58

I write this in hope it helps, not for any other reason. I also went through a breakup of marriage, both of us Baha'is. This started at our Pioneering Post. It started through one of the partners losing Faith. This led to both being remote from the Faith. One still is?

When I look back and ponder you must ask why?

Upon reflection I think it because God is always assisting us to make ourselves better people. As Baha'is we may think we are a little exempt from all the tests this world can produce. I do not think we are, I actually think that we may be open to more

I would not look for manifold increases in this life as an individual, who knows how we will end up. A good way to look at it is...well look at the life of the Wife of Baha'u'llah. Did this life offer Her any Manifold increase? The Tablets revealed by Baha'u'llah say it all. Her life was a life of Pain, Her station in the next world unimaginably great.

The way I see it "Your" is Humanity as a whole and not an individual. The Fund is one part of being a Baha'i, there are so many other aspects we must also live up to. God assists us to live up to this expectation by Tests, IMHO.

The bounty of giving to the fund may not manifest itself until the next world, or we may have negated the bounty because of other aspects of out lives?

I now own very little in life compared to what I used to, I still have too many possessions. But I have never been happier Faith wise and still have a lot to learn. If only I was good enough to give it all away

(not directed at you LOG) It is funny how money, wealth all this rubbish is such a Test. I just noticed another thread where a Baha'i now wants to move away from the Faith.

Best of luck to all - We will all need it in these times foretold by Baha'u'llah

Regards Tony