EternalStudent

My family is Christian. They have been for generations. So, when I told my mother I wanted to be Baha'i, she freaked. She thought I was rejecting Jesus so I could follow Baha'u'llah. I tried explaining that the Baha'i Faith DOES teach that Jesus is the Messiah, and that He died for our sins, but she still thinks that because it's not identical to her idea of Jesus (in her opinion Baha'u'llah could never be Jesus's equal) that I'm in danger of Hellfire because of it. Are there any New Testament verses I can use to show her that Baha'u'llah is who He says He is, and that acceptance of Baha'u'llah doesn't mean rejection of Jesus?

Nuck81

Never Mind

EternalStudent

That's very interesting, but I can't show it to my mother since it calls those that expect Jesus to return in the sky 'pathetic Christians.' She happens to believe that He will return in the sky.
I noticed that it appears to be from the group that call themselves Orthodox Baha'i? I didn't see anything saying it was them that put it out, but since it said the Guardianship didn't end with Shoghi Effendi, I assumed it must be.

Nuck81

Yeah I guess I should have looked into that a little more closely. I'm pretty sure the group associated with the author of that article are covenant breakers. My mistake, I'll try ti find a better article.

Here you go I know this one is legit.

http://bahaitalks.blogspot.com/2010/...aullah-is.html

EternalStudent

Thanks. And I wouldn't throw the term 'covenant breakers' around. Remember, in their opinion 'Heterodox' (their term, not mine) Baha'i are the covenant breakers for following the Universal House of Justice instead of the Guardian.

It would be nice if there was a Guardian at the head of the Faith again. And perhaps one day there will be, if it is God's will. But at the moment... I feel the UHJ's authority needs to be respected, until/unless God decides to bring the 'Orthodox' and 'Heterodox' together again. It may never happen. But then again...

Iconodule

Well as far as your mother is concerned you are rejecting Christ. You deny him as God. ASsuming your mother is Trinitarian. The only thing I reccomend you do is point out that she cannot know your eternal destiny only God can you may go to heaven or you may go to hell you and she cannot know.

So be honest with her and tell her that you do reject Christ as God, don't suger coat it.

EternalStudent

I haven't been a Trinitarian for a while... In fact, I was Deist for a while, and Deists reject revealed ALL revealed religion... Which makes it kind of hard for me to understand why this upsets her, since at least now I DO believe in Jesus as Messiah.

Iconodule

Christians have always held Christ is God, when the arrians came it was something that Christians vigourously responded to as the Trinity is the central message of the Gospel which tells us of Salvation the nature of God and everything. As far as your mother is concerned if she is a Trinity believing Christian (not that any non trinitarian can be called a Christian) then its perfectly understandable as to why she fears for your eternal soul, because you have rejected God himself incarnate, the God who died for you so that you may live and become like him.

This is not meant to offend but simply get the trinitarian viewpoint accross. You have some options, the one I just mentioned, Ignore her (which is not a good policy mind you) or try to convince her Jesus is not God. But then again if she were a lay Christian who couldn't defend the Christian position properly I would reccomend against that instead asking her pastor to come and talk to you.

These probably won't help but as long as your mother is Trinitarian and you are UNitarian rejecting Christ as God she will always likely fear for your soul. As any loving mother should.

EternalStudent

Whether or not the original Christians considered Jesus to be God or not is hotly debated amongst Christians and non-Christians alike. Some did. Some did not. Some didn't even believe He was a physical being, but in fact an illusion (Gnostic Christians). All of these beliefs were present in early Christianity. It's been a while, so we can't be positive which beliefs the ORIGINAL Christians held.

Iconodule

If we read the patristic literature with the gospels it is clear Christians have always held Christ was God, irregardless of Non Christians, Ebionites, Judaisers and Arrians who cannot be found in the first century but originate later. But I'm not interested about that. I'm interested at getting accross how important the trinity is to the Christian it is not some superficial doctrine with little impact it is the all encompassing doctrine of the Chrisitan life which explains scripture perfectly and salvation.

EternalStudent

Ebionim (Ebionites) were a pre-Christian sect of Judaism that accepted Jesus as the long awaited Messiah. Not trying to fight, just saying that they're not something that popped up out of nowhere later on.

Iconodule

Pre Christian? They broke off from the church that was Christian and formed their own judaising heresy which insisted members had to be quite literally Jews and conform to the Jewish practices, which the early Christians (including the apostles did not accept, though they did continue those practices themselves most likely). And I agree they didn't pop out of nowhere, they likely had their origin in the Jeruselum Church and split from it and while claiming James the Just as on their side I see no reason to come to such a conclusion.

arthra

Iconodule is an orthodox christian but in response to your above question about your mother..

Are there any New Testament verses I can use to show her that Baha'u'llah is who He says He is, and that acceptance of Baha'u'llah doesn't mean rejection of Jesus?

Most of the verses would concern the promised return of Christ and also the prophetic verses in Isaiah about Mount Carmel.

Being a Baha'i is not an easy thing these days in certain situations because many Christians will claim you deny Christ as iconodule an orthodox christian suggests or are going to Hell..

The response would be that Baha'u'llah fulfills the Promise of Christ's return..therefore you are following Christ. Wouldn't a true follower of Christ investigate whether His promise has to return has been fulfilled?

Here are some sources you can consider offering to your mother

Thief in the Night by Bill Sears

http://www.amazon.com/Thief-Night-Ta.../dp/085398008X

Dizzy Gilespie became a Baha'i through this book.

You might also share with your dear mother the following:

The Remarkable Parallels between the life of Jesus and the Bab:

I began searching the libraries for all the available documents.
You can imagine my feelings of awe and wonder when I uncovered the
following facts.

The death of this young man occurred in July 1850. He was slain
publicly because of his words and his teaching. Everything I
learned about his life reminded me of Christ. In fact, after
carefully searching into his background, I could find but one
parallel in all recorded history to his brief, turbulent career;
only the moving story of the passion of Jesus Christ himself.

As part of my record of 'findings', I here set down the
remarkable similarity in the story of their lives:

1. They were both youthful.

2. They were both known for their
meekness and loving kindness.

3. They both performed healing
miracles.


4. The period of their ministry was very brief in each
case, and moved with dramatic swiftness to its climax.

5. Both
of them boldly challenged the time-honoured conventions, laws, and
rites of the religions into which they had been born.

6. They
courageously condemned the unbridled graft and corruption which
they saw on every side, both religious and secular.

7. The
purity of their own lives shamed the people among whom they taught.

8. Their chief enemies were among the religious leaders of the
land. These officials were the instigators of the outrages they
were made to suffer.

9. They both had indignities heaped upon
them.

10. They were both forcibly brought before the government
authorities and were subject to public interrogation.

11. They
were both scourged following this interrogation.

12. They both
went, first in triumph then in suffering, through the streets of
the city where they were to be slain.

13. They were both paraded
publicly, and heaped with humiliation, on the way to their place
of martyrdom.

14. They both spoke words of hope and promise to
the one who was to die with them; in fact, almost the exact same
words: 'Thou shalt be with me in paradise.'

15. They were both
martyred publicly before the hostile gaze of the onlookers who
crowded the scene.

16. A darkness covered the land following their slaying, in each
case beginning at noon.

17. Their bodies were both lacerated by
soldiers at the time of their slaying.

18. They both remained
in ignominious suspension before the eyes of an unfriendly
multitude.

19. Their bodies came finally into the hands of their
loving followers.

20. When their bodies, in each case, had vanished from the spot
where they had been placed, the religious leaders explained away
the fact.

21. Only a handful of their followers were with them
at the times of their deaths.

22. In each case, one of their
chief disciples denied knowing them. This same disciple, in each
case, later became a hero.

23. Each of them had an outstanding
woman follower who played a dramatic part in making the disciples
turn their faces from the past, and look toward the future.

24.
Confusion, bewilderment and despair seized their followers in each
case, following their martyrdom.

25. Through their disciples
(the Peters and Pauls of each age) their Faiths were carried to all
parts of the world.

26. They both replied with the same exact
words to the question: Are you the Promised One?

27. Each of
them addressed their disciples, charging them to carry their
messages to the ends of the earth." [God Passes By, Shoghi Effendi,
p. 56.]

Iconodule

Comparisons don't mean anything, I can point out many contradictions between the two.

Baha'u'llah was not a Prophet, Jesus was.

Baha'u'llah was not the Messiah who fulfilled the Jewish prophecies in the Old testament, Jesus was.

Baha'u'llah was arabic, Jesus was Israelite.

Baha'u'llah has no connection to the throne of David, Jesus has a direct connection to the throne of David Legally and through blood.

Baha'u'llah wrote his own works, Jesus wrote nothing.

and so on and so on. Similiaraties don't posit any real connection, given enough time I could posit 100 similarities between Baha'u'llah and Hitler, but it wouldn't mean anything.

cire perdue

I doubt it will do any good to tell you this, but this is not the place for you to teach or posit your views. You need to start your own site if you wish to do that. The way you express your views borders on bigotry. You are a guest. You are not here to give Orthodox answers to people who are talking to Baha'is. It is in very poor taste to do so.

Iconodule

I am merely refuting the points he should not be giving to his mother if he were honest. After all decieving is not a good practice especially when something is wrong.

cire perdue

That is exactly how I would expect you to characterize yourself. Of course you would not agree. You are not here to refute things, this is a Baha'i site. You are a guest. Your place is not to take over a Baha'i discussion and turn into a Christian one. For that you need your own site. He was not asking you, he was asking Baha'is. You moved in. This site is not for Christian answers. Please note that.

arthra

Eternal student,

You may also find this site helpful in locating prophecies in the Bible:

Baha'i by Subject

You will find "Return of Christ" (RTN-CHRIST) located on the upper left of the screen...there are several verses relating to that and references from Sear's book..as well as from the Writings themselves!

cire perdue

Freaking out mothers is NOT fun. I can remember as a new Baha'i how amazed I was that no one was interested. I had become a Hindu Yogi before becoming a Baha'i, so there was little notice of the change. I was sad that a bit before she died my mother said she though I would have come back to Christianity. I am so sorry you are having to face that. I thik the best you can do is probably be calm and hang onto your Faith. Though I know you are trying to find answers for her, there probably are none that will work.

When one accepts Baha'u'llah from the heart without knowing all the rpoofs and even tht the proofs don't matter you have a very very special link. You can also be lost when others clamor for those proofs, but you do not owe them, yes OWE them, the answers and the proofs. IF they are sincere then they will seek them. Do not feel responsible for them if yoyu do not have answers or they turn aside from what you have. People do NOT want TRUTHl, not about themselves, or God and this world. Do NOT lose sightof what you have found. It is very precious and only those who see it will know.

LordOfGoblins

In the faith there is a new principle that we can intercede for our parents and in fact there are some prayers for parents in the prayer book. So I recommend those. Also you can let her know that if the child recognises Baha'u'llah then the parent maybe has done a good job!


Bahá'i Prayers for Parents

---------------
"O Lord! In this Most Great Dispensation Thou dost accept the intercession of children in behalf of their parents.

This is one of the special infinite bestowals of this Dispensation.

Therefore, O Thou kind Lord, accept the request of this Thy servant at the threshold of Thy singleness and submerge his father in the ocean of Thy grace,

because this son hath arisen to render Thee service and is exerting effort at all times in the pathway of Thy love, Verily, Thou art the Giver, the Forgiver and the Kind!

- 'Abdu'l-Bahá"
---------------------

But yeh heaven in the Bahai faith is closeness to God. We dont belive in fire of hell or white clouds of heaven. Perhaps you can show those ideas are a little outdated...
Good luck

Nuck81

How so? Both Luke and Matthew explicitly state Jesus Genealogy as going through Joseph, who has no blood relation to Jesus.

Unless you are using a source that is not of the Bible, which according to your reasoning on other subjects with this forum, can not be accurate since it was not divinely inspired.

Unless it's ok in this case, because it helps your cause. So it's ok for you to pick and choose from whatever source you want.

There are some scholars that believe since the genealogy's of Luke and Matthew are contradictory (I thought the Bible had no Contradictions) and one was meant to be Mary's. Which would mean there is a mistake in the Bible (I thought the Bible was infallible)

Iconodule

Through Mary. And no it's not a mistake on part of the bible because if one read's it says "as was supposed" in regards to the geneology in Luke. And don't confuse me for a fundamentalist biblical innerantist I am no such thing.

EternalStudent

Wow, I didn't expect for this to become a big argument....

Thanks, to those of you that gave me information I could give my mom. But yesterday afternoon she finally let me know she wasn't going to continue trying to turn me away from Baha'u'llah. Apparently God let her know I was in His hands and that I am where I am at this moment for a reason.
I may look for that book, Theif in the Night, anyway though.

Nuck81

You can get Thief in the Night for $2.00 used from Amazon It's a must have for anyone interested in the Baha'i Faith.

That's great about your mom!!

And don't worry about the guys like Iconodol or Pawnrider. It seems to be their purpose to come here and be as disruptive as possible. I wonder how many Baha'is get on Christian Message boards solely to cause trouble and be disruptive? I'm sure there are many of their Faith that would be just as disappointed about their disrespectful actions as we are though...

Nuck81

Well you pulled one over on me and used "misinterpretation" I really should have seen it coming....

That still doesn't explain the contradiction and fallibility of the genealogy though, nor the other contradictions in the four gospel books.

cire perdue

That in and of itself is pretty incredible and answered prayers. That sounds like a spiritual answer to prayer. We never know if we are not the link to a whole family. Hang onto that heart link it is supreme over any argument or knowledge, and then the knowledge is so wonderful. It is like the opening of vistas before you that can bring such joy.....Just take care of you and your faith.......

Yeshua

Dear Eternal Student,

Read this, from the most senior and important religious leader in modern day Christianity, the Catholic Pope:


"...Interviewer:

How many ways are there to God?

Pope Benedict XVI:

As many ways as there are people. For even within the same faith each man's way is an entirely personal one. In that respect there is ultimately one way, and everyone who is on the way to God is therefore in some sense also on the way to Jesus Christ. But this does not mean that all ways are identical in terms of conciousness and will but on the contrary, the one way is so big that it becomes a personal way for each man...Unity of mankind, unity of religions, unity of Christians - we ought to search for these unities again, so that a more positive epoch may really begin...In all religions there are men of interior purity who through their myths and beliefs somehow touch the great mystery and find the right way of being human...The Christian can also find the secret working of God behind them. Through the other religions God touches man and brings him onto the path. But it is always the same God, the God of Jesus Christ..."

- Pope Benedict XVI, Salt of the Earth, 1997 (when he was Cardinal Ratzinger Head of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith)


My beloved brother, I am overjoyed to hear that your mother has come round to accepting your desire to embrace the Faith of Baha'u'llah. She clearly has a strong motherly love and concern for your spiritual welfare, which is admirable even if in practice it is misdirected.

In my opinion, her understanding of salvation is in error. From the very beginning the Christian revelation has proclaimed 4 things:


1) The salvation of Christ is available to all. "The Vatican II Council reaffirms the traditional doctrine according to which salvation in Jesus Christ is, in a mysterious way, a reality open to all persons of good will" (Dialogue and Proclamation, Pontificial Council and Vatican document, 1991)

2) The Holy Spirit has been poured out upon "all flesh" and so divine grace cannot be limited to the confines of the Church

3) Acceptance of Christianity must be free and religion must be adopted willingly and not through compulsion

4) No one can know the fate of another person's soul


The Early Fathers of the Christian faith zealously upheld - in fact were the first to uphold - religious liberty:



"It is a fundamental human right, a privilege of nature, that every man should worship according to his own convictions. One man’s religion neither harms nor helps another man. It is not the nature of religion to compel religion. Religion ought to be adopted voluntarily and not by force"

- Tertullian (160 – c. 225) Church Father, Ad Scapulam 2


"Religion being a matter of the will, it cannot be forced on anyone. In this matter it is better to employ words than blows...Religion is the one field in which freedom has pitched her tent, for religion is, first and foremost, a matter of free will, and no man can be forced under compulsion to adore what he has no will to adore...Of what use is cruelty? What has the rack to do with piety?... For nothing is so intrinsically a matter of free will as religion"

- Lactantius (240 – ca. 320), Church Father, Divine Institutes


"The Gospel teaches us that those who live in accordance with the Beatitudes - the poor in spirit, the pure of heart, those who bear lovingly the sufferings of life - will enter God's kingdom...All who seek God with a sincere heart, including those who do not believe in Christ and his Church, contribute under the influence of grace to the building of this kingdom"

- POPE JOHN PAUL II, GENERAL AUDIENCE, 6 December 2000


As a Catholic Christian myself, I will present you with the Catholic Church's teaching on salvation as explained in, "Dialogue and Proclamation" (an official Vatican document which explains Catholic doctrine on salvation). You can see the document here:

DIALOGUE AND PROCLAMATION:


Read this portion from it:


"...First comes the fact that the whole of humankind forms one family, due to the common origin of all men and women, created by God in his own image. Correspondingly, all are called to a common destiny, the fullness of life in God. Moreover, there is but one plan of salvation for humankind, with its centre in Jesus Christ, who in his incarnation "has united himself in a certain manner to every person" (RH 13; cf. GS 22.2). Finally, there needs to be mentioned the active presence of the Holy Spirit in the religious life of the members of the other religious traditions. From all this the Pope concludes to a "mystery of unity" which was manifested clearly at Assisi, "in spite of the differences between religious professions".

From this mystery of unity it follows that all men and women who are saved share, though differently, in the same mystery of salvation in Jesus Christ through his Spirit. Christians know this through their faith, while others remain unaware that Jesus Christ is the source of their salvation. The mystery of salvation reaches out to them, in a way known to God, through the invisible action of the Spirit of Christ. Concretely, it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their saviour..."

Baha'is DO acknowledge Jesus, as do Muslims so in your case this is even more true!

It is by practising all that is good and true in your chosen faith, the Baha'i Faith, that you will "receive salvation in Jesus Christ". This is because from the Christian perspective Jesus is the Logos, the Reason of God, and the "way, the truth and the life". Therefore what ever is in accordance with reason, whatever is true - no matter where it is found, in whatever religion - is directly inspired by God and is therefore a direct engagement ith Jesus since he is the "truth", and therefore any embracing of truth, no matter where it is found, is an embracing of Jesus (from the Catholic perspective). The Roman Catholic Church, in its Sacred Tradition preserved by the Apostles, teaches us that "all truth wherever it is found belongs to us as Christians" (Justin Martyr, early Church Father) and according to Nostra Aetate (Vatican II declaration on other faiths), "The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in [other] religions"" but rather the Church "exhorts her sons to recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men" since they, "often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men".


We also believe, like Baha'is, that all must have the right to follow the dictates of their conscience and pursue independent investigation of truth. This is in accordance with the Gospel. Faith must be free, and you will not be condemned by God for sincrerly following your conscience.


"...[Man] has a right to freedom in investigating the truth...Among man's rights is that of being able to worship God in accordance with the right dictates of his own conscience, and to profess his religion both in private and in public...all men are equal in natural dignity, no man has the capacity to force internal compliance on another. Only God can do that, for He alone scrutinizes and judges the secret counsels of the heart...Man's personal dignity requires besides that he enjoy freedom and be able to make up his own mind when he acts...Each man should act on his own initiative, conviction, and sense of responsibility, not under the constant pressure of external coercion or enticement..." (Pope John XIII, Pacem in Terris, 1963)


Also read this, again from Dialogue and Proclamation:


"...In this dialogue of salvation, Christians and others are called to collaborate with the Spirit of the Risen Lord who is universally present and active. Interreligious dialogue does not merely aim at mutual understanding and friendly relations.

It reaches a much deeper level, that of the spirit, where exchange and sharing consist in a mutual witness to one's beliefs and a common exploration of one's respective religious convictions. In dialogue, Christians and others are invited to deepen their religious commitment, to respond with increasing sincerity to God's personal call and gracious self-gift, as our faith tells us, always passes through the mediation of Jesus Christ and the work of his Spirit.

Given this aim, a deeper conversion of all towards God, interreligious dialogue possesses its own validity. In this process of conversion "the decision may be made to leave one's previous spiritual or religious situation in order to direct oneself towards another"(16). Sincere dialogue implies, on the one hand, mutual acceptance of differences, or even of contradictions, and on the other, respect for the free decision of persons taken according to the dictates of their conscience (cf. DH 2)..."

- Dialogue and Proclamation, PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTER-RELIGIOUS DIALOGUE, 1991

EternalStudent

I find it interesting that you, a Catholic, are this accepting. I have nothing against Catholics, but most have been rather unaccepting of me, even while I was a member of the Christian religion, since I was Protestant and not Catholic. For a long time my best friend was a Roman Catholic, but even he liked to point out how *his* religion was better... :/

Anyway, thank you for those quotes from Church Fathers and the Popes. Very interesting.

Yeshua

How terrible! I am very sad brother that you have had these experiences of Catholics! In any religion, whether it be Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism etc. you will always find intolerant people who do not properly practise the teachings of their faith. Consider Islam, how many Muslims clearly follow those precepts which are stated in the Qur'an, (Surat 2:256) “There must be no compulsion in religion” and hold up as standard for all the principle underlying the respectful maxim, (Surat 109:6) “Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.”

I would never claim that my religion is "superior" to yours or any other and neither does my Faith. Some Catholics though, I think, do not delve into the actual teachings of their faith. Its the same with most religions. If they did then they would be tolerant and loving towards people of other faiths.


Always remember that the meaning of the word "Catholic" is "Universal". I just read this about Blessed Mother Teresa in an article:

A dear friend of mine had worked with Mother Teresa in India and mentioned to her, at one point, that she was a Baha'i. Mother Teresa responded, "I, too, am a Baha'i. And I'm a Muslim, and a Buddhist and a Hindu."

That IS a Catholic spirit!


Nicholas of Cusa, was a prominent Catholic Cardinal living in the 1400s. He nearly became Pope and was widely considered to be one of the most influential Catholic theologians and philosophers of all time and he wrote:


"Diversity in creation and cultures is the language of God; the radical unity of the opposites. In God absolute unity is absolute multiplicity. It is you O God who is being sought in various religions in various ways and named with various names. For you remain as you are to all incomprehensible and inexpressible. When you will graciously grant it then sword, jealous hatred and evil will cease and all will come to know that there is but one religion in the variety of religious faiths" (Nicholas of Cusa 1401-1464)

Hence, according to him, no religion is absolute in the sense that it could claim to have comprehended the Divine fully; every religion contains elements of revelation and hence each religion has to be understood in relation with the others. To Nicholas, the Muslims were not wrong about God; the Hindus were not wrong; neither were the Sikhs or the Zoroastrians or any other religion. Rather they were all engaging with the one Divinity in their own languages, through their own cultures, traditions, customs, comprehensions and so on.

Consider also the teachings of Saints of the Catholic Church, for example Blessed Charles de Foucauld and Blessed Mother Theresa. In them you can see reflected true Catholic faith.

Here are some quotes from them:


"...I want to accustom all the inhabitants, Christians, Muslims, Jews, and nonbelievers, to look on me as their brother, the universal brother. Already they're calling this house "the fraternity" (khaoua in Arabic) -- about which I'm delighted -- and realizing that the poor have a brother here -- not only the poor, though: all men...Above all, always see Jesus in every person, and consequently treat each one not only as an equal and as a brother or sister, but also with great humility, respect and selfless generosity..."

- Blessed Charles de Foucauld (1858- 1916),
Catholic mystic and martyr


I end with some beautiful words from Blessed Mother Theresa on interfaith love:

"There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers...I believe that God has created each soul, that that soul belongs to God, and that each soul has to find God in its own lifetime and enter into his life. That is what is important. All of us need to seek God and find Him..Religion is not something that you and I can dictate. Religion is the worship of God, and therefore it is a matter of conscience. Each one of us must decide how we are going to worship. In my case, the religion that I live and practice is Roman Catholicism. It is my life, my joy, and the greatest proof of God’s love for me. I cannot force anyone to accept my religion---just as no man, no law, and no government can legally demand that anyone reject a religion that promises them peace, joy, and love. I love all religions... If people become better Hindus, better Muslims, better Buddhists by our acts of love, then there is something else growing there. They come closer to God...Our purpose is to take God and His love to the poorest of the poor, irrespective of their ethnic origin or the faith they profess. Our discernment of aid is not the belief but the necessity. In our work we bear witness to the love of God’s presence and if Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists or agnostics become for this reason better men---simply better---we will be satisfied"

Yeshua

EternalStudent

Great quote from Mother Theresa! I haven't read much about her, but my mother has quite a bit of respect for her, so it's nice to see how she felt about this.

Yeshua

Wonderful! I am glad your mother respects Mother Theresa! (God so many MOTHERS lol ) She was, in my humble opinion, a brilliant exemplar of real Christian faith. As Blessed Cardinal Newman once said, "Heart speaks unto heart" and her heart spoke to so many people in her lifetime, and still does. Thats the kind of heart we should all posses!

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalStudent It would be nice if there was a Guardian at the head of the Faith again. And perhaps one day there will be.

Not going to happen.

There will NEVER be another Guardian in the Baha'i Faith because:

• Only the existing Guardian had the right to appoint a successor, and there no longer is one.
  
  The Guardian had to be a direct descendant of Baha'u'llah, and by the time of Shoghi Effendi's death there were none who were still Baha'is. Thus he couldn't have appointed anyone even if he had decided to.

Peace, :-)

Bruce

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iconodule Baha'u'llah has no connection to the throne of David, Jesus has a direct connection to the throne of David Legally and through blood.

Wrong again.

Baha'u'llah was an Abrahamic lineal descendant through both Keturah and Sarah, two of Abraham's wives, the latter line being through David also.

Bruce

Iconodule

I somehow doubt it, that you could trace a lineage like that.

MichaelAW

you don,t say what age you are, i,m guessing your an independent adult. how it should be handled would different for different age.

i believe keeping peace in the family is paramount, you also need to be careful and review in your heart why you told your mother. you may never convince your family that you are ,t going to hell. no matter what you tell them. in the BF if someone, anyone, including family isn,t ready and willing to hear about the faith you should hold back. only when specically asked to be told of the faith should you proceed. all you can really do is say that you love your family, always will, that you still believe they will be ok in their fsith and that you will be too. you can still attend church with them but cannot become an official member, you must also advise the pastor if you were a member that you must withdraw your membership with the utmost love and withthe pastor you should be able to explain why. maybe if your pastor is well versed in true christian love they eill convvey to your parentd that you will be ok. good luck.

EternalStudent

I'm 18, still living at home.

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iconodule I somehow doubt it, that you could trace a lineage like that.

Just as I doubt YOU could disprove it.

And you obviously don't appreciate how thoroughly some cultures trace lineages.

Iconodule

I Just doubt such a lineage could be proven throughout history with multiple documents. It seems utterly farfetched to me.

EternalStudent

How about Jesus's lineage? Doesn't the Bible trace that back all the way to Adam? At the very least it traces it back to Abraham. That's pretty far fetched. Yet it is believed. How is Baha'u'llah's lineage any harder to believe?