Intellectual-Submission unto God

cire perdue · 01-14-2012, 08:56 AM

It is not explicit that Baha'i submit themselves unto God, but it is very much there. By our belief we submit ourselves unto Baha'u'llah, the Covenant, and the Institutions. A Baha'i testifies to his powerlessness daily. This means that we believe God is in charge and that through a clearly defined succession we give our wills over to the care of our Institutions.

Thereare individuals who will not submit intellectually. At times this is very evident on this Forum. Our beliefs are toyed with and to me made fun of. There are scholars who after doing years of graduate work on the Faith will not submit to an authority higher than their own intellect. I know someone who went through this who was finally able to surrender and accept that God could be in charge, that solutions could be in God's hands, but described it as feeling like "I was giving up my integrity." This person glows when speaking to others. Sadly some of these scholars invested so much with the Faith that they do not go their separate ways. Talisman members did this. They had the incredible effrontary to want to be a consulting body to tell the Universal House of Justice what the Writings mean. Do you think maybe that God could be in charge?

Everytime I see someone say things like the Universal House of Justice can change something explicit in the Writings, or not believe in clearly stated teachings, I see those whose intellect is more important than God. I pray that those who do this learn differently. Of course this applies to Baha'is, but I certainly see Christians who use argument in attempt to control outcomes and are just as intellectual. The intellect goes only to the 3rd Valley and is a veil if one does not detach......................

rushdy · 01-20-2012, 10:20 AM

I don't think we as Baha'i should just accept everything in face-value without using reason. Everything in the faith is based on logic and reason.
When people asked why women were not allowed in the UHJ, the reply wasn't presented in a sense that "an individual should not ask and just submit to the will of god", instead, the reply was assuring the individuals that a logical answer were by very clear in the future.
In addition, , "In the Bayán it had been forbidden you to ask Us questions. The Lord hath now relieved you of this prohibition, that ye may be free to ask what you need to ask, but not such idle questions as those on which the men of former times were wont to dwell. " Verse 126

I think if all the Baha'is just believe with faith instead of logic and reasoning, we are heading to a dark age! Investigating the truth requires a lot of logic, reasoning, and intellect to reach a conclusion that could or could not end us up believing in Baha'ullah.

01-14-2012, 08:56 AM	#1
cire perdue Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: Louisiana Posts: 1,618	Intellectual-Submission unto God It is not explicit that Baha'i submit themselves unto God, but it is very much there. By our belief we submit ourselves unto Baha'u'llah, the Covenant, and the Institutions. A Baha'i testifies to his powerlessness daily. This means that we believe God is in charge and that through a clearly defined succession we give our wills over to the care of our Institutions. Thereare individuals who will not submit intellectually. At times this is very evident on this Forum. Our beliefs are toyed with and to me made fun of. There are scholars who after doing years of graduate work on the Faith will not submit to an authority higher than their own intellect. I know someone who went through this who was finally able to surrender and accept that God could be in charge, that solutions could be in God's hands, but described it as feeling like "I was giving up my integrity." This person glows when speaking to others. Sadly some of these scholars invested so much with the Faith that they do not go their separate ways. Talisman members did this. They had the incredible effrontary to want to be a consulting body to tell the Universal House of Justice what the Writings mean. Do you think maybe that God could be in charge? Everytime I see someone say things like the Universal House of Justice can change something explicit in the Writings, or not believe in clearly stated teachings, I see those whose intellect is more important than God. I pray that those who do this learn differently. Of course this applies to Baha'is, but I certainly see Christians who use argument in attempt to control outcomes and are just as intellectual. The intellect goes only to the 3rd Valley and is a veil if one does not detach......................

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01-20-2012, 10:20 AM	#2
rushdy Youth Power Joined: Dec 2011 From: All over the place! Literally! Posts: 19	I don't think we as Baha'i should just accept everything in face-value without using reason. Everything in the faith is based on logic and reason. When people asked why women were not allowed in the UHJ, the reply wasn't presented in a sense that "an individual should not ask and just submit to the will of god", instead, the reply was assuring the individuals that a logical answer were by very clear in the future. In addition, , "In the Bayán it had been forbidden you to ask Us questions. The Lord hath now relieved you of this prohibition, that ye may be free to ask what you need to ask, but not such idle questions as those on which the men of former times were wont to dwell. " Verse 126 I think if all the Baha'is just believe with faith instead of logic and reasoning, we are heading to a dark age! Investigating the truth requires a lot of logic, reasoning, and intellect to reach a conclusion that could or could not end us up believing in Baha'ullah.