IndependentInvestigator

Friends,

Though not, theologically, a Baha'i, I am utterly taken with the vision of world unity, of a world at peace, of a world where none will go without necessities as others drown in luxuries, where people of all faiths and cultures respect rather than demean--or even demonize--one another, and where nations cooperate, applying global solutions to our shared global problems.

This is a high ideal--one of the highest I can imagine. But it's so easy to hold a high ideal, and so difficult to actualize it.

If you're like me, you know people who have an exceptionally high consciousness of a problem, like, say, environmental degradation, but who buy products that pollute, fail to recycle, and drive an SUV. Sometimes people will feel good about themselves just for holding the right ideals, and perhaps preaching them, without doing much about them.

Perhaps to some extent, we're all more like than we should be. I certainly am. As I wrote that last paragraph I felt some pangs of conscience. (While I don't drive an SUV, I have done more planning to recycle than I have actual recycling.) We feel ourselves to be good people because we hold to good ideals. But if we hold an ideal and don't work to establish it, how is that different than not holding it at all? And how does holding good ideals we don't actualize make us good people?

I just read in The Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah, "The essence of faith is fewness of words and abundance of deeds." The words of world unity and world peace are easy to utter, and it would be easy to congratulate ourselves on embracing them and speaking them. After all, many, if not most, people on the earth now seem to be fairly limited in their vision of the unity that is possible and desirable for humankind. If we have embraced an exceptionally high ideal, that is indeed a first step in something great. But if our embracing of it begins and ends at the same place, then the ideal we've adopted will, in the end, only condemn us. The Epistle of James in the New Testament says that the sinner is a person who knows the good and doesn't do it. Holding to a high ideal isn't a moral "pass" card. It is a binding contract.

Baha'u'llah condemned those "sciences," or intellectual pursuits, "that begin and end in words." How much more would he condemn faith that begins and ends in words?

I didn't mean this to be a sermon, but an invitation. Because I want actualize, to live out and build in the world around me, the ideals of human unity and global harmony, I would like to hear from others here--whom I know share these ideals --what practical steps you take, or see can be taken, to enact these high ideals.

Discussing my intellectual questions about God and religion here has been interesting. But in the end it doesn't matter nearly as much what questions of I ask of God as it matters how I answer by my own living the questions God asks of me.

Any ideas of actions to build human unity and harmony would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Don

cire perdue

Until the power that was taken from the rulers by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah is fully assumed by the people becoming responsible for themselves and this world, it is going to be very difficult to cause significant change. The most compelling evidence of this is the widespread use of the automobile to the extent that it is a necessity, but even the way vehicles are made and the fact that MPG are still not significant show we are not changing. Cars are really an insane use of natural resources, but they are one of the most significant signs I can think of. It's still business as usual. Change is NOT going to happen fast. It has not so far!

Yeshua

Dear Don (this is in answer to your post on the other thread, our discussion is more appropriate here)


Dear Don!

Thank you so much! I will definetly be looking into this. I was thinking recently of joining the World Federalist Movement. I am looking for others that share my ideals! I will get back to you on this!

As a Christian, like myself, you might want to read the book published in 1919 by the Baptist minister and theologian Samuel Zane Batten called, "The New World Order". And yes, it was written way, way before all this modern nonsense about Illuminati and NWO conspiracies! I think it is now out of print, however there is an excillent pdf version which you can read here: http://www.lovethetruth.com/books/nwo_1919.pdf

Samuel Zane Batten (1859–1925) was a Baptist minister. He was an adamant proponent of democracy for its Christian appeal and believed in World Federalism, indeed he was one of its earliest advocates in modern times. He was a preacher of the Social Gospel.

The American Baptist Publication Society in 1919 published THE NEW WORLD ORDER by Samuel Zane Batten, in which he declared, almost 100 years ago:

"The old order passes from view; the new world rises upon our vision....Men must learn to have world patriotism. World patriotism must be a faith....The only alternative is World Federation...with a world parliament, an international court, and an international police force....Men must have an international mind before there can be a world federation. They must see and affirm that above the nation is humanity. Internationalism must first be a faith before it can be a reality and a system."


Echoing Jesus’ prayer for unification, "that they may all be one" (Jn 17:21), Paul VI assured the Church and all Christians that world unity would come:


"...The unity of the world will be. The dignity of the human person shall be recognized not only formally but effectively. The inviolability of life, from the womb to old age… Undue social inequalities will be overcome. The relations between peoples will be peaceful, reasonable and fraternal. Neither selfishness, nor arrogance, nor poverty… [shall] prevent the establishment of a true human order, a common good, a new civilization of love..."

—POPE PAUL VI, Urbi et Orbi Message, April 4th, 1971

Yeshua

Again in our own religion Don - Christianity - Pope Pius XII (who was Pope from 1939 until 1958) was an avowed World Federalist:


"Your movement, Gentlemen, has the task of creating an effective political organization of the world. There is nothing more in keeping with the traditional doctrines of the Church, or better adapted to her teachings on the rightful or unjust war, especially in the present world situation. An organization of this nature must, therefore, be set up…You are of the opinion that the political world organization needs to take a federal shape in order to be effective. If you mean by this that it needs to be released from mechanical leveling down then you thereby are as well in accordance with the principles of social and political life as they are established and advocated by the Church...[The future political world organization] will only exercise effective authority to the degree in which it preserves and fosters the independent existence of a healthy human community whose members jointly participate in advancing the welfare of the whole of humanity...You have the courage to give yourself to this cause. We congratulate you. We would express to you Our wishes for your entire success and with all Our heart We will pray to God to grant you His wisdom and help in the performance of your task...The spirit of federalism, the future organization of the world in political respect, will play an important role. In the same measure it safeguards the natural and healthy life of human communities in bringing about the greatest welfare of all mankind. I wish you great success in your labor and God give you light and assistance..."

- Pope Pius XII, to the members of the Congress of World Federalists, held in Rome, April, 1951


He was also a great advocate of democracy:

In 1944 Pope Pius XII gave his full support to the democracy of the Allied Nations and called for the establishment of the United Nations. This monumental declaration was called by the Pope, "Democracy and a Lasting Peace" and was his 1944 Christmas Message. You can read it fully here: http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12XMAS.HTM

It is a truly stunning reflection on the importance of democracy from a Catholic perspective. Pius was a strong supporter of democracy.

Here's an excerpt (although I strongly advise that you read the entire message as it must be digested in its entirety to make real sense):


"...Moreover -- and this is perhaps the most important point -- beneath the sinister lightning of the war that encompasses them, in the blazing heat of the furnace that imprisons them, the peoples have, as it were, awakened from a long torpor. They have assumed, in relation to the state and those who govern, a new attitude -- one that questions, criticizes, distrusts.

12. Taught by bitter experience, they are more aggressive in opposing the concentration of dictatorial power that cannot be censured or touched, and call for a system of government more in keeping with the dignity and liberty of the citizens. These multitudes, uneasy, stirred by the war to their innermost depths, are today firmly convinced -- at first, perhaps, in a vague and confused way, but already unyieldingly -- that had there been the possibility of censuring and correcting the actions of public authority, the world would not have been dragged into the vortex of a disastrous war, and that to avoid for the future the repetition of such a catastrophe, we must vest efficient guarantees in the people itself. In such a psychological atmosphere, is it to be wondered at if the tendency towards democracy is capturing the peoples and winning a large measure of consent and support from those who hope to play a more efficient part in the destinies of individuals and of society? ..."

Pope Pius XII called for Christians to support democracy. Jeffery Haynes writes of this message:

"...In his Christmas Message of 1944, for example, Pope Pius XII articulated a detailed endorsement of democracy..."


See also a much earlier Pope:

"...Become out-and-out Christians and you will also be thorough-going democrats. Christian virtue makes men good democrats.... Equality is not an idea of philosophers but of Christ...and do not believe that the Catholic religion is against democracy...The democratic form of government is not . . . repugnant to the Gospel. On the contrary it exacts all the sublime virtues which are learned only in the school of Jesus Christ..."

- Pope Pius VII (when he was Cardinal Chiaramonti), 1797 Christmas Sermon


Democracy was of huge importance to Pope John Paul II. In particular, he openly supported the anti-communist labor union Solidarność in his home country Poland. Michail Gorbatchev, former President of the Soviet Union, wrote in his memoirs that the transformation in Eastern Europe would not have been possible without John Paul II. In the encyclical “Centesimus annus” of 1 May 1991, John Paul II formulated a comprehensive criticism of totalitarianism and wrote in support of democracy:


“The Church values the democratic system inasmuch as it ensures the participation of citizens in making political choices, guarantees to the governed the possibility both of electing and holding accountable those who govern them, and of replacing them through peaceful means when appropriate."

- Pope John Paul II, 1991

IndependentInvestigator

Okay, so how do we (since we're people too! ;-) ) actively take responsibility for ourselves and the world? What would it mean in terms of what we would do differently for us to take this responsibility?

Don

IndependentInvestigator

Yeshua,

Sweet!

It means a lot to me to find others who share these ideals. It's actually how I first made the acquaintance of Baha'is.

Definitely let me know how it goes moving forward on this.

BTW, Yeshua, despite your username, I just assumed you were a Baha'i.

Now I get it! <light bulb flickers over head>

I really had no idea that the Catholic social tradition on world federalism was so strong. And the statement of Pius XII to the world federalists is awesome! Thank you a ton for sharing that and the others! I've saved the two links so I can return to them and read them more fully.

I have duties to discharge this afternoon, but let's definitely continue the conversation...

Don

Iconodule

Unity is good to a certain extent, but I can't agree with where some of the Bahai ideas may lead, one world government and that especially frightful hint of the worst social experiment within human history, IE communism. Now I don't think humans in of themselves will ever be able to bring about unity, I see this with the fundamental contradictions between Islam, Christianity, Bahai, Hinduism, Judaism and the like which cannot ever be reconciled despite attempts to do so (bahai tried and have ironically missed the point of these religions). What will bring about unity? Ultimately as a Christian I must say the return of Christ as King over this world and the final judgement and ressurection.

What can we do in the mean time? WE can dialogue and deabte and have fruitful discussion, and thats about it, but its rare to see massive union as is enviosioned by some.

Yeshua

The Baha'i Faith is completely opposed to Communism:


"...absolute equality is just as impossible, for absolute equality in fortunes, honors, commerce, agriculture, industry would end in disorderliness, in chaos, in disorganization of the means of existence, and in universal disappointment: the order of the community would be quite destroyed." ('Abdu'l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, 1904–6)


"The chief idols in the desecrated temple of mankind are none other than the triple gods of Nationalism, Racialism and Communism, at whose altars governments and peoples, whether democratic or totalitarian, at peace or at war, of the East or of the West, Christian or Islamic, are, in various forms and in different degrees, now worshiping." (Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, published in 1941)


And I don't think I have to even quote to prove to you the Catholic Church's opposition to communism. As you know Pope John Paul II played an instrumental role in the ultimate collapse of the Communist ideology in his native Poland and then throughout the entire Soviet union

Fadl

Yes, yes, a divine dictatorship will be much better, and once that horrid thing called free will is done away with by Jesus, the earth will be a garden again...

um, next idea, please?

Iconodule

I'm glad you think Christ is a tyrant on equal level to Stalin and Hitler. Good job! I didn't know the bahai thought Christ was so evil! Come on really your gonna really say that?

Iconodule

Im glad, i just wish some bahai wouldn't promote such an Irresponsible idea.

Fadl

Now, hold on a minute! I believe no such thing. But it wasn't me who suggested we can't as human beings achieve unity until the day Jesus returns to impose it. I say impose, because, if man can't get there on their own, say by willingly following God's plan of their own will and accord, then it must be through imposition.

Whether Jesus returns as I believe he did in the human temple of Baha'u'llah or literally as others believe, at some future date in the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth standing on water vapors, if man does not have the choice to follow and thereby enter into unity of their own actions, then you are talking a usurpment of God given free-will, which is the realm of tyrants not saviors.

Iconodule

I never said Jesus would impose anything which only leads me to think that you think Should JEsus Christ of Nazereth (who is not Baha'u'llah and never was) ever return as King he would become a tyranical bastard. How will Jesus attain this unity? I am unsure, but I do not believe it will compromise the freewill Christ has given us.

Yeshua

I am disappointed brother that you would see it fit to use such a foul word on a religious forum. Highly inappropriate I think

Iconodule

Well i find it appropiate, a tyranical ruler lets face it and put it blunt is a bastard.

Yeshua

I'm only suggesting that it might be better not to make recourse to such uhm..."colourful" language. We should I think use more respectful speech when speaking to people on a public forum with a uniquely religious nature. There is no need to resort to swearing.

Iconodule

Not as if I were calling him such, but I do think it gets the point accross despite it's colourful nature.

Yeshua

I know that you weren't calling our dear brother Fadl a "bastard" (I should think not!!!) however the swear word was still directed his way, as a description of his (alleged) beliefs regarding the issue at hand. I just don't think that there was any need to use the word "bastard" to get the point across. Coarse speech is after all not desirable or conductive to the spiritual life. One of the things one is supposed to cultivate is "good words". That word is not a good word, especially not if typed right after the name "Jesus" in my opinion.


It is definitely not wholesome to swear (curse, cuss, etc.). The Bible makes this abundantly clear. Ephesians 4:29 tells us, "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." First Peter 3:10 declares, "For, whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech." James 3:9-12 summarizes the issue: "With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water."

We all let out an involuntary swear word or curse at times. This is natural.

I also know you were being sarcastic, so I'm not suggesting you've done anything wrong.

However on a public religious forum I really do not think that such speech is appropriate.

Iconodule

And i would suggest the actual topic get back in line.

Yeshua

arthra

"Any ideas of actions to build human unity and harmony would be appreciated."

First we can recognize the oneness of humanity...

A concept that man is one is essential to inspire action to reduce the extremes of wealth and poverty..reduce racial prejudice and inequality of sex..male and female..


Recognize the oneness or common Source of the world religions..

to reduce the sectarianism and polarities that exist between religious people.

Working locally through inter-faith bodies as well as on an international level such as the World Parliament of REligions..

Beyond mere words live the life and be involved in helping others.

There are many oportunities available that have been offered for Baha'is to be involved in what are called social development projects and service.

Social and Economic Development

Fadl

I don't believe Baha'u'llah is/was Jesus of Nazareth, and I never said such. Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ. Jesus of Nazareth, the earthly temple, is decomposed and not coming back. This is my belief.

LordOfGoblins

What Fadl is alluding to I think is that once Jesus returns according to your imagination, in a white robe perhaps? Or in some other colourful fantastical way, People will no longer have the choice to say "I disbelieve".
THe reason for that is because who is going to disbelieve a living all powerful GOd who resides on earth? In other words faith becomes useless as we know it. The idea of faith is to walk with a light in the darkness. Or another way of explaining it. You beleive in Jesus as your God from reading stories and perhaps personal experiences. But those experiences can probably still be explained through science. So you use your "faith" in him to prove that he is the one despite never having seen him or heard his voice. But if the whole world is already made Gods literal dominion, the idea of faith is destroyed...

Iconodule

The question of how Christ will return is an interesting one and to answer what I think he will return like, I can only answer I don't know, but generally speaking I would say that his return would be immediately followed by the general ressurection and a fundamental changing of this world. And I find Jesus as God as per the testimony of his church since the begining.

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iconodule The question of how Christ will return . . .

And of course, in the Bahai' view the Christ Spirit already returned about a century and a half ago!

Best! :-)

Bruce

Iconodule

I suggest such a view is incredibly false. As do most "true religions" in the bahai view

Yeshua

Dear brother Independent Investigator,

I think you will like the Focolare Movement within Catholicism: Focolare Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was founded in 1941 by Chiara Lubich. Many Blesseds and holy people have since emerged from this movement. It is founded entirely on: UNITY.


Here is there international website: Movimento dei Focolari

And another Focolare website, the Canadian one: The Focolare Movement


"...'That all may be one' (Jn. 17,21). We were born for these words, for unity, to give a contribution to its realization in the world. In a shelter illuminated by a candle, we were reading the Gospel. We felt particularly attracted by the prayer of Jesus Ut unum sint ( St. John 17). We were surprised ourselves, for these words no longer seemed to us difficult to understand; on the contrary, we were having the impression to understand them a little. We were sure: it was the rule, the Magna Carta of our new life...The Focolari is a little community in the world. Its members do not differ in nothing of this world, they dress and work like others. At the same, this community is something special, for it comprises of people who left the world, their country, their family, their work, in order to put their life at the service of the unity of the world...The unity is that which results from the common research of the same luminous truth...Let’s unite our strengths, both those who are not particularly interested in faith and those who believe, because the Ideal of a humanity that is free and equal hastened by fraternal respect and mutual love’ is too beautiful and really necessary...After my speech in London, those who were present and who were followers of different religions seemed to me united. I asked myself, how did it happen? Perhaps the reason was that almost all were believers in God and in that moment He embraced us all? When I left, the first one to approach were the members of other religions. A Tibetan monk told me that he was going to write immediately to the Dalai-lama so that the later put himself in contact with me. Four Jews expressed their joy telling me that at the bottom , the Old testament is the trunk of the tree on which Christianity is grafted. Evidently, they meant to say that the development of our movement came from this same tree. After, came the Hindus, Sikhs and others. Even if we adhere to different religions, we become one. Perhaps it was so because all believe in God and that, in this sense, He embraces us all in a moment? We must make ours also the different civilizations also so rich, the sometimes traditions, and to make the germ of the Gospel grow...By Him (Jesus), by His cry (on the cross), we are capable to engage ourselves beyond all wounds, of all separations and divisions, to reconstitute the unity of the Church. Thanks to Him, we have acquainted ourselves with numerous churches and confessions, we have grasped their particularities and we have learned to esteem them; we feel like brothers and sisters, united by reciprocal love...[Muslims and Hindus] we love them just as they are and it is together that we look for these truths which unite us most narrowly to live them together, to share our experiences in our commitment for God and our brothers...Jesus took the human nature in order that all may be one. On the Cross, in his dereliction, it is for that that He gave His life. Now, it is up to us to fulfil this end: above all, the Opus Mariae has made as its own the task to unite the entire humanity...Our planet is threatened by dramatic divisions, albeit destruction. This new life permits us to regress and progress simultaneously. Thus it is that humanity will find again this unity for which God created it, and the churches will realize this plenary community which Christ conferred to His Church in founding her...It is together (that is, with the adherents of other religions) that we advance towards the fullness of the truth to which we all aspire. Thanks to the spirituality of the Focolari, men and women of almost all nations attempt today (…) to be (..) seeds of a new people, of a world of peace, (…) of a more united world..."

- Chiara Lubich (1920 – 2008), Italian Catholic activist and leader and foundress of the Focolare Movement



"...The Focolare Movement is an international organization that promotes the ideals of unity and universal brotherhood. Chiara Lubich (January 22, 1920 – March 14, 2008.), in her early twenties made the discovery, while bombs were going off all around her during World War II, that the God who is Love is the only ideal the bombs couldn't destroy.

She then promised herself to God and founded the Focolare movement which now numbers four million supporters worldwide and emphasizes spiritual renewal.This Movement, which promotes the ideals of unity and universal brotherhood, was born in the midst of the hatred and violence of the Second World War. It contributes towards peace and unity in the world: prejudices crumble, the seeds of truth and love contained in various cultures and religions are seen as reciprocal enrichment, new horizons open up in the field of politics, economics, art and culture

Through living this spirituality in various social and cultural spheres, many opportunities for fruitful dialogues have opened up in the Catholic world, thus contributing to the unity among individuals, groups, movements and associations; with Christians of different denominations in order to work together for full communion; with believers of different faiths; with people of no religious conviction.

Through these dialogues, the Focolare Movement works with many others towards the unity of the human family...

These Focolare (small communities of lay volunteers) seek to contribute to peace and to achieve the evangelical unity of all people in every social environment. The goal became a world living in unity, and its spirituality has helped dismantle centuries-old prejudices. Today the Focolare Movement, though primarily Roman Catholic, comprises members and adherents who are Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, Orthodox, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Bahá'í, as well as thousands of people who profess no particular religion...In 1943 in Trent, Italy Chiara Lubich founded the movement during the Second World War. Chiara and her companions, started off working with people in the poorest neighborhoods of the city and bomb shelters. This first group soon became a movement, dedicated to living out the precepts of Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and spread initially in Europe and then worldwide...Today the movement, which is now international, considers the following issues as part of its mandate: to cooperate in the consolidation of unity in the Catholic world, with individuals and groups, movements and associations; to contribute to full communion with Christians of different churches; to move towards universal brotherhood with followers of various religions and people of other persuasions, including atheists. The whole movement is divided in 25 branches. Gradually, several projects have sprung up within the movement: the school 'Abba', the 'Economy of Communion' (which is linked more than 800 companies), evangelism within small cities, social work, and publishing magazines. The Focolare Movement is recognized by the Pope and is present in over 182 countries..."