ohhcuppycakee

I ask this because I see many Baha'is speaking out for Baha'i rights in Iran, but I don't see them doing that when it comes to many other important issues in the world today...for example: human rights abuses in Palestine, persecution of Shi'as in Pakistan, etc...

cire perdue

Congress has been involved and has voted on Baha'i matters in Iran. This was done by involvement by Baha'is. We have Baha'is involved in the UN as well over this matter. We do not wave placards or protest as one sees in this country, but many many things are being done i.e. the oganization Education under Fire is one. We don't do these things like others do in partisan politics. There are petitions and documentaries. It may be difficult to find without searching for it.

arthra

Baha'is are probably the only ones who are reporting about the abuse of their fellow Baha'is in Iran...Why? If we don't do it who will?

Baha'is are involved on an international level through the Baha'i International community on various issues... You may not be aware of this:

Baha'i International Community - United Nations Office

As you scan this site you will see a variety of issues...

As to specific issues in Israel/Palestine usually Baha'is consider an international solution to the problems.

wombatwolf

I understand your point- though I think this is a very difficult question to answer.

I think a lot of things are done more individually.

For example, I'm involved with both the SPLC and Amnesty International- but I don't need to relate that to the community- it's just a thing we all do, because most of us are involved in these things anyway since we're members of the Faith that supports these values.

Additionally, official Baha'i stances on certain issues at this time seem to be being given very cautiously- mostly to protect Baha'is living in Middle Eastern countries from being targeted because of some "official stance" taken by an official body.

ohhcuppycakee

I wouldn't say that. I've met quite a few Iranians in the West that actively support Baha'i rights in Iran.

I think if Baha'is would speak out more about these things, maybe others would be more endeared to them...? I've met a lot of people that are under the assumption that the Baha'i community is pro-Zionist and doesn't condemn human rights abuses in Palestine.

cire perdue

So Baha'is should become embroiled in the Israel issues? We live there you know. There is a time to speak and a time to hold one's tongue. Those issues are fraught with traps. That is too political for my understanding, though it is tragic. We are against war, so we are against the whole situation, but our World Centre is in Israel. I think your expectations are too political in nature, but that is just me, imho. I'm sure someone else may be able to be more specific than this.

As wombatwolf said: Additionally, official Baha'i stances on certain issues at this time seem to be being given very cautiously- mostly to protect Baha'is living in Middle Eastern countries from being targeted because of some "official stance" taken by an official body.

InvestigateTruth

Well, Baha'i Faith goal is unity of mankind, and for sure is against what has happened between Israelites and Palestinians. We believe this goal eventually will come through education of humankind, and Baha'is are actively spreading teachings about oneness of mankind, and elimination of all forms of prejudice, and fanaticism. They also pray for peace regularly.

But the situation there is complex and political, and we believe in doing things with wisdom.
But this type of questions could be answered by Universal House of Justice clearly.

InvestigateTruth

Very recently, for the first time, after more than 150 years of persecution of Baha'is, we are seeing this!

Rani

Yes, the Baha'i World Centre is on Mount Carmel. If the baha'is became involved, speaking pubicly against the govt. of Israel, they probably wouldn't take too kindly to it. Necessarily the Universal House of Justice has some kind of relationship with their Govt.which allows the World Centre to be there.


As I understand, an Israeli citizen can't become a a baha'i in Israel. -A restriction imposed by their govt. They would need to leave the country. A local non-baha'i was asking me about this recently, and he couldn't work out why the Israeli govt. accepts muslims and christians as resident citizens but not baha'is. And I didn't have an answer for them.

Clex19

Perhaps another thing to consider is that, while diversity is important, if we as Bahá'ís diversify our actions too much, then our efforts might not be as unified and concerted as they need to be. It would be more effective to have many Bahá'ís work for a few goals than to have many goals with only relatively small portions of the Bahá'í community striving to achieve each one.

That being said, we need to prioritize our goals. The imprisonment of the Bahá'ís in Iran is a civil rights issue, just as the ones in Palestine and elsewhere. But the denial of freedom of religion in Iran is a spiritual matter, not simply a social one. Therefore, it has priority over other civil rights goals.

InvestigateTruth

If I am not mistaking, It is the instruction of the UHJ, as per writings of Baha'u'llah not to actively teach the faith in the holy land not that the gov. of Israel which makes that request.

Rani

Maybe you're right.. But why would Baha'u'llah (in His Writings) not want the Faith to be taught in Israel?

If it is the House of Justice that makes this request, I can only think that they expect the government there would not be happy if a lot of people were becoming baha'is there. What else could be the reason I have to wonder?

arthra

Well this is the communication about teaching in Israel... Recall that at the time of Baha'u'llah the area was under the Ottoman Empire....

23 July 1995
Dear Baha'i Friend,

The Universal House of Justice has received your email message dated 29 June 1995 and we have been asked to respond.


You have asked how the policy of not teaching Israelis applies in the situation in which you have contact with an Israeli via an "interactive relay chat" (IRC) connection. The House of Justice has not asked the friends to avoid contact with Israelis. When you discover that a person you are in contact with via IRC is an Israeli, you should feel free to maintain friendly contact, but you should not teach the Faith to him. If he has already developed a personal interest in the Faith and seeks more information, you should refer him to the Offices of the Baha'i World Centre in Haifa.


For your information, the people in Israel have access to factual information about the Faith, its history and general principles. Books concerning the Faith are available in libraries throughout Israel, and Israelis are welcome to visit the Shrines and the surrounding gardens. However, in keeping with a policy that has been strictly followed since the days of Baha'u'llah, Baha'is do not teach the Faith in Israel. Likewise, the Faith is not taught to Israelis abroad if they intend to return to Israel. When Israelis ask about the Faith, their questions are answered, but this is done in a manner which provides factual information without stimulating further interest.


With loving Baha'i greetings,<
Department of the Secretariat

There are also anti conversion laws in Israel...and anti proselytizing laws siince 1977.

arthra

I think it's great that there are some Iranians that support Baha'i rights..off hand I'm thinking of Shirin Ibadi...but we also have to be careful about reports and be sure they're authentic and the wording is also a sensitive issue...

As I mentioned above there are a number of racial issues and issues dealing with women that Baha'is are involved in...also social development issues

Social and Sustainable Development | Baha'i International Community - United Nations Office

Equality of Women and Men | Baha'i International Community - United Nations Office

There are a lot of international organizations that are monitoring the situation in Palestine/ Israel and have been doing so for a number of years... Baha'is are not involved in politics or taking sides in the Holy Land and have never done so...nor are we involved in partisanship in any country on the earth. When there can be fair representation and agreements to end hostilities and rancor it will be welcomed but we will not assume a partisan stance.

Rani

Aha.. If there are anti-conversion laws, then that has to have been decided by the Government there -obviously. The Baha'i Faith has no control over their decisions. But presumably that means no conversion between other faiths as well (?).

The letter above expressed that we couldn't teach the Faith to Israelis, but it didn't explain why they couldn't, of their own accord, become baha'is in Israel.

On a second point, I'd be interested to know why Baha'u'llah either prohibited or advised against teaching the people of Israel, if anyone knows. The fact that it's within the boundaries of the old Ottoman Empire doesn't enlighten me.

Rani

In pursuit of trying to understand both the baha'i reasons, and any laws of the government relating to conversion/ proselytizing there, I've only found this so far.:

'Proselytizing is legal in the country and missionaries of all religious groups are allowed to proselytize all citizens; however, a 1977 law prohibits any person from offering material benefits as an inducement to conversion. It was also illegal to convert persons under 18 years of age unless one parent were an adherent of the religious group seeking to convert the minor. Despite the legality of proselytism, the government has taken a number of steps that encouraged the perception that proselytizing is against government policy.
For example, the MOI has detained individuals suspected of being “missionaries,” and required of such persons bail and a pledge to abstain from missionary activity, in addition to refusing them entry into the country. It maintained denunciations of such activity from antimissionary groups like Yad L'Achim in its border control databases. The MOI has also cited proselytism as a reason to deny student, work, and religious visa extensions, as well as to deny permanent residency petitions. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) promised the Knesset in 1986 to refrain from all proselytism voluntarily in conjunction with receiving a building permit for its Jerusalem Center following protests from the Orthodox community.'

— A 2010 US State Department report on religious freedom in Israel[8

ohhcuppycakee

How is it not an issue of religion when these actions contradict basic morality and the teachings of the Baha'i Faith? Do Baha'is not believe in speaking out against oppression? I ask because Baha'u'llah came from a Muslim background and in Islam it teaches that people should speak out against oppression, no matter who does it.

wombatwolf

Agreed...

"That being said, we need to prioritize our goals. The imprisonment of the Bahá'ís in Iran is a civil rights issue, just as the ones in Palestine and elsewhere. But the denial of freedom of religion in Iran is a spiritual matter, not simply a social one. Therefore, it has priority over other civil rights goals"


Maybe this just didn't come out right, but...that just...it really doesn't work like that. We speak up for the plight of Baha'is in Iran because it is an issue that is a part of the community is very current and relevant.

But it is not "prioritized" over any other goals worldwide for equality. This may be some Utilitarian philosophy sneaking in, but we should be focusing on helping as many people as we realistically can, in the best ways that we realistically can.

ohhcuppycakee

So you guys really only speak out when it involves Baha'is? Great.

wombatwolf

You literally...said the opposite of what my post said? I was refuting what was quoted.

arthra

Old cup cake wrote:

"So you guys really only speak out when it involves Baha'is? Great. "

Yes it is great and we do from time to time speak out for others...

Baha'i International Community calls for release of Christian pastor facing death sentence


Geneva—4 Oct 2011—

The Baha'i International Community has joined the call for the release of Youcef Nadarkhani, a Christian pastor from Rasht, Iran.

Pastor Nadarkhani, who is the father of two young children, leads a network of house churches. He was found guilty of apostasy – "turning his back on Islam" – and "converting Muslims to Christianity," and sentenced to death in September 2010.

Human Rights | Baha'i International Community - United Nations Office

..........................................


Religions unite to urge G8 leaders to take bold action on global issues


Bordeaux, France—25 May 2011—

Representatives of the Baha'i Faith have joined a call for the G8 bloc of nations to take bold action on the interconnected crises faced by humanity.

Two Baha'i delegates gathered with Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Shinto and Sikh colleagues, as well as members of interfaith organisations, at the Religious Summit in Bordeaux to deliberate on matters related to

Human Rights | Baha'i International Community - United Nations Office

LordOfGoblins

THis is a sensitive issue and the Bahais should be careful how they tackle this question. Remember first off that we believe the world is like an afflicted human body. Issues will keep arising and if the Bahais do not work towards the greater good rather than the symptoms of the disease, then who will?
I personally do not really understand why Bahais make a fuss about the persecutions of Bahais in Iran as opposed to persecutions of other peoples or religious minorities. It seems to me that those Bahais being persecuted are going through their own tests and trials and we should pray for them and try to help them but on the other hand THE WHOLE WORLD is also going through tests and trials. It is a difficult topic BECAUSE peoples emotions get involved...
Please be patient with the Bahais. You may not see them as perfect but not only are they well-intentioned, they are following the commands of the manifestation of God for today, something that no other people on earth have had the sense to recognise.

LordOfGoblins

Also that being said. It seems to me such a small population as the Bahais would have very limited power in bring about political change by 'speaking out' about issues of injustice in a big public way. Who cares? Who will pay attention to us? What practical good can we acheive by doing so?
Everyone knows who wants or cares to know of those injustices. Its no more than an internet search away. Its just the world chooses to turn a blind eye. Therfore I am wondering what you think the Bahais can actually achieve by speaking out all the time against obvious injustices that people already know are injust.
There are 6 million (dunno if thats the right figure) Bahais in the whole world remember...

jupitermadcat

they are following the commands of the manifestation of God for today, something that no other people on earth have had the sense to recognize.



So is this the view of all Baha'i? the rest of the world don't have the sense to Recognize Baha'ullah? wow ok you lost me with that statement if that is the consensus.

LordOfGoblins

What makes you think I speak for all Bahais?

jupitermadcat

I don't just hope is wasn't the case.

LordOfGoblins

Sense is just the precursor to recognition.

LordOfGoblins

"His beauty hath no veiling save light, His face no covering save revelation."[1] How strange that while the Beloved is visible as the sun, yet the heedless still hunt after tinsel and base metal. Yea, the intensity of His revelation hath covered Him, and the fullness of His shining forth hath hidden Him.
[1 Hadith, i.e. action or utterance traditionally attributed to the Prophet Muhammad or to one of the holy Imams.]

Even as the sun, bright hath He shined,

But alas, He hath come to the town of the blind![1]
[1 Jalalu'd-Din Rumi (1207-1273 A.D.); The Mathnavi. Jalalu'd-Din, called Mawlana ("our Master"), is the greatest of all Persian Sufi poets, and founder of the Mawlavi "whirling" dervish order.]

(Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys, p. 38)

ahanu

RA Scion, a Baha'i and a rapper with the group Common Market, speaks about social issues. See the video below:



In fact, most of his rap songs are about social issues.