LordOfGoblins

Lets say for example you believe that you have a few million dollars in the bank, and you're set for life. You decide though that you wont access that money. You go through life feeling happy because you have all that money then when it finally comes time to withdrew the money you realise in fact you never had the money to begin with, it was just a bank error or identity confusion and you are actually poor as hell. So all that joy that God put on your heart, or that you put in your own brain because you thought you were very rich was actually just an illusion...
It seems to me..
Any thoughts..

Timothy248

If we truly believe in something it generates happiness as though it was real, because the source of all happiness is friendship. In this situation, the happiness, for me anyway, would be the comfort of financial security, this form of happiness is shared, if not with other created beings such as a partner who also is supported financially, with the creator, as comfort is a form of order composing of discomfort and comfort, and god sets in motion all forms of order. In fact the reason we form a close relationship with god is because he created everything so is a source of eternal friendship, which is eternal happiness.

Jak08

I would think, with the help of various therapists, that your perception is very important to your emotional state. In your example the person for his life had the perception he was a very rich man, He reacted to this by being happy. After he found out he had no money he has a choice, I believe that that is important to remember, how to react. He could focus on his lack of fucks and feel sad and possibly hurt for having the idea he was misled or betrayed. Or he can focus instead of other more positive things.

I've recently learned and believe that for the most part, you can slowly change this but takes time and effort, that your initial thought about something you have little to no immediate control over. However your second thought and the actions you follow through with is your choice to make.

With all that said I would say that if you had a moment of serenity and that serenity gets disrupted, the disruption has much less meaning than that one moment. I know this ancient lady who is truly a wonder to be around who has this story about a bow legged squirrel. She starts off by asking "Have you ever had a bad day. Oh I know they are just terrible. This one day I was so down and upset when I saw a squirrel out the windows. I noticed this squirrel was bow legged, did you know all squirrels were bow legged? Now things didn't change what I was upset about was still very real, however things were a little more in perspective and everything was a little more ok." I've very badly butchered her story but for me it has a strong spiritual message.

Pete in Panama

The weird thing is that most people have a natural inclination to feel miserable when going back to where they were. It doesn't matter if it's up and then back (like your example) or down and then back. The natural response is misery.

The reason is that most people feel the pain of loss worse than the pleasure of an equal gain. I make a decent living buying/selling online and I get paid quite well for ignoring that inclination, because as prices vary during the day the stress of loss/gain would be overwhelming. Just the same, while getting rich may be a good reason for detachment, the best reason for detachment is that our Creator says so time and again. Example:

Bottom line is that you hit upon a key point in understanding people, wealth, and happiness. Thanks!

Fadl

Hey brother,


I like your question, but I would like to flip it. Perhaps it is unhappiness that is the illusion, and happiness that is reality and the natural state of things. Actually, when I read and ponder the Seven Valleys, I am certain that unhappiness is the real illusion.

Cheers

Pete in Panama

Exactly, as illusions go, unhappiness is about as real as it gets.

Unhappiness is the lazy way out, it takes the least effort. Sure, some are naturally happy and have it easy, but most of us have to get off our buts, and keep ourselves happy as mandated in the Sacred Text. The key is to build happiness upon spiritual and not material wealth. OK, the two are fully interconnected, but having made a living in building construction and in finance, I know full well how easily stuff like steel, concrete, and money can appear and disappear with the wave of a hand.

In contrast, the love of good people and the virtue of a goodly deed are permanent.

LordOfGoblins

wy shoudl unhappiness be the illusion and not happiness?
They are both just opposite ends of the same phenomina as far as I can see it.
Would you say pain is illusion but pleasure isnt or weekness is illusion but strength real?
Naww.
Fadl how do you show its unhappiness thats the delusion?

But in any case what about my scenario? Is this a possible scenario that can happen? Can we be delluded into thinking we are happy because we thought we had something we didnt?
What about something like we thought we did great on an exam and so we were happy but then we found out we failed.
Perhaps you thought you are an amazing mathematician but then you move school then you realise its just everyone at your last school was really bad..
Or What if we really did do great and we found out are marks were good. Is that the reality of it?
It all seems like just feelings that come into our heads for whatever reasons.
Hence illusion.
Can we prove otherwise?

ahanu

You find out you're not really a millionaire, so your sense of wealth becomes your blight. Was your happiness an illusion?

Before I give my answer, read this message from Kahlil Gibran:

"Your joy is your sorrow unmasked. And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

And The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.

Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.

Some of you say, "Joy is greater thar sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater."

But I say unto you, they are inseparable.

Together they come, and when one sits, alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.

Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy.

Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced.

When the treasure-keeper lifts you to weigh his gold and his silver, needs must your joy or your sorrow rise or fall."

To see your joy as an illusion in your scenario is misleading: at the moment the individual finds out he never had millions in his bank account, joy sleeps.

LordOfGoblins

SO then the question is this.
Was the joy he felt from thinking he had it, any different from the joy that he would have felt if he really had had it all along.

Emilia

What's the delusion in your scenario? Delusion that one was more secure than they were? Or delusion that money is sufficient to cause happiness? Or something else?

Oh the feelings are real enough. Whether we end up happy or sad maybe has more to do with what lessons, if any, we draw from our experience, and what actions we choose when faced with some difficulty?

Essence of GOD

i see happiness as the normal state, the constant, natural state.
conditions and situations affect happiness, then we choose to change to a different state of mind or emotion to cope better.

Emilia

I'm not sure how much choosing we get to do about the neurochemistry of our animal brains.

That said, we can use our higher brain function to modify and override the animal brain's response. And there we have some choices we can make.

I have to be honest and say I have some difficulty with the idea that people just choose their emotional responses. It tends to end up in blame the victim territory even if people truly didn't mean that.

Essence of GOD

i like to think we have power over our emotions.

Pete in Panama

So did Abdu'l-Baha, and he expects us to exert that power:

wombatwolf

The general idea is a familiar one, as it's related to the idea of "everything is temporary, everything passes away."

An example.

Our happiest moments are spent with other people. Say your girlfriend or wife. You could be sitting on the couch with your arms around her and just be sitting there and think this is one of the happiest moments of my life. But that's just it. It's a moment.

That feeling of happiness will be gone soon. Something will happen and the result will be a return to the state of ennui and ambient mental anguish that characterizes modern life. As related to Buddhism, this is roughly what is meant by the whole "life is suffering" thing.

What is advised then, to gain "true" happiness, by most religions (Baha'i, Buddhist, Christian, etc) is to carry that spirit of detachment, or this feeling of non-possessiveness. It will pass away, it will be to dust. That moment with your loved one will pass away and die, and you'll be left alone. Sad to say, but it's life. So we try to combat it.


Of course, this is as relates to modern life high on Maslow's pyramid. If you're on the lower levels things get a little more real.

Pete in Panama

Closing time at the theme parks we see families leaving, most happy but there're always a few with crying kids not wanting to leave. The idea is to enjoy material blessings knowing they're not forever, and afterwards be grateful.



OK, so the idea is to be thankful in adversity and generous in prosperity, but I really like the 'generous in prosperity' better...

CharmingN

I'm the marketing assistant for Robert Scheinfeld, a NY Times bestselling author who just wrote a new book on how to be happy. It's called "The Ultimate Key To Happiness." It offers a v-e-r-y different approach to defining what happiness really is, and a very different step-by-step path to experience it all the time, no matter what's going on around you. The Internet has gotten so complex. So many options. Can anyone here share ideas for how to get the word out there about this important new book? I'd love to hear your ideas. I'm sure there are tons of ideas I've never thought of before.

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by wombatwolf That moment with your loved one will pass away and die, and you'll be left alone.

Not necessarily!

The Baha'i teaching is that marriage is eternal (none of this "'til death do us part" stuff) and so continues into the Next Life, as do friendships and our relations with loved ones!

Peace, :-)

Bruce