the anti bahai view on gays thread...

[LordOfGoblins]

This is a thread to show my concern for the great numbers of Bahai views on gays threads that just keep popping up.
Im getting tired of it?
Why cant people just use the search option and add to the ones already existing? a search reveals there must be at least five of these already on the same topic.
Thumbs up if you agree?

[Zhang]

Thumbs down...

These forums have been around for years, does that mean we shouldn't discuss topics when new information is revealed?

You can literally find a thread on any topic, should we just stop posting?

By the way, someone did revive the 180+ thread.

No one here is anti-bahai. The Baha'i holy book doesn't mention homosexuality. We are against homophobia.

The irony is that in creating this thread you have just added to the number of threads discussing homosexuality. *facepalm*

[LordOfGoblins]

Originally Posted by Zhang

Thumbs down...

These forums have been around for years, does that mean we shouldn't discuss topics when new information is revealed?

You can literally find a thread on any topic, should we just stop posting?

By the way, someone did revive the 180+ thread.

No one here is anti-bahai. The Baha'i holy book doesn't mention homosexuality. We are against homophobia.

The irony is that in creating this thread you have just added to the number of threads discussing homosexuality. *facepalm*

err I didnt say stop posting. Pick and choose one of the 10 already created.
Now If im being unreasonable well my bad...

[Zhang]

Okay then...I will pick from the now 11 choices, thanks to you. -.-

[LordOfGoblins]

Originally Posted by Zhang

Okay then...I will pick from the now 11 choices, thanks to you. -.-

this was an anti thread a call to stop making them. Not a thread to discuss homosexuality...
but ok.

[Zhang]

Please understand, the faith teaches that we must be a friend to the oppressed peoples, and advocate for their rights. That is what we are trying to do here.

[LordOfGoblins]

Originally Posted by Zhang

Please understand, the faith teaches that we must be a friend to the oppressed peoples, and advocate for their rights. That is what we are trying to do here.

anyone is free to do what they want.

[Zhang]

Not if you believe in the manifestation of Baha'ullah, and just so happen to be gay.

[Fadl]

Originally Posted by Zhang

Not if you believe in the manifestation of Baha'ullah, and just so happen to be gay.

Zhang,

What you have said is certainly true, and if this is your situation, then I do sympathize with you and your struggle. However, the Baha'i position is clear on this and is based on sacred writ that has been expounded on and interpreted by the rightful successors. It simply can't be changed, there is no one on earth with the authority. Furthermore, there is a reason for the writ, and it may not be popular, but we believe it is divine.

I think your frustration and anger is valid but misdirected. Let me ask you a question. If you were homosexual, and through gene therapy or through some legitimate medical treatment or procedure it were possible to be heterosexual, and really heterosexual, with no will power involved and no risk of looking back, would you receive such a treatment? I suspect as a Baha'i that you would, since we are required to be treated by competent physicians when we are ill and since the homosexual lifestyle is not compatible with the Baha'i life and abstinence is virtually incompatible with being human.

The way I see it, there is a lot of anger and frustration to be directed at everyone choosing to fix the problem by ignoring it and validation it. I would be angry to have a condition where research for cures and treatments were considered inappropriate and I was told to just accept my condition as the way I was made and to be happy about it. That would really make me angry if I were a homosexual. Actually, I'm not a homosexual, and it does bother me that there is no cure in sight and nobody thinks there need be one and nobody is looking. That is outrageous to me.

By the way, you seem to be of the belief that sexuality is a black and white matter, that you are either born gay or straight. While it may certainly be true, that for many it is that way, it is not true for everyone, and the lines and shades are fuzzier. For example, it is not that unusual for people going through puberty, or even young adults, to have thought about, or perhaps experimented with a person of the same sex. Even though such activities are clearly homosexual or homoeroticism, it does not make the individual automatically gay. Such a person could engage in such things once, or maybe even several times, and then lose interest and pursue only heterosexual relations for the rest of their life. Conversely, others may continue to engage in homosexual activities and come to the conclusion that they are actually gay, or that they like men and women equally.

The reason why I mention this, is that for many, the fact that homosexuality is perceived as a taboo could be a deterrent for those who lie more in the middle of the homo-hetero continuum, and actually allows them to settle happily into heterosexuality. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, and it seems obvious to me that there are individuals who fall solidly into the homosexual side of the spectrum who will never like the opposite sex as they are. For these, short of some kind of genetic therapy or other as of yet unknown medical treatment, there is nothing going to change it. As for everyone else, the taboo of it, and the will to live a more normal lifestyle may be sufficient for them to ultimately do that, and happily. Do you think it is really best that, for the sake of those who have a strong homosexual nature to spoil it for those whose sexuality is less clear?

[Essence of GOD]

i agree, the number of posts about sex is so much higher and more discussed than the meaningful posts.
i guess internet is just a tool that turns everything to sex lol

edit: not saying sex or homosexuality are bad, just making an observation.

[Zhang]

So suddenly I am advocating for the rights of the oppressed (as the manifestation says) and therefore I must be gay. Who the hell cares if I am gay or not. Why is it any of your business?

What you have said is certainly true, and if this is your situation, then I do sympathize with you and your struggle. However, the Baha'i position is clear on this and is based on sacred writ that has been expounded on and interpreted by the rightful successors. It simply can't be changed, there is no one on earth with the authority. Furthermore, there is a reason for the writ, and it may not be popular, but we believe it is divine.

Great, so a far reaching extrapolation in regards to pedophilia by a man NOT identified in the will of Baha'ullah now classifies as sacred and rightful. Great to see the bar is so high when interpreting a message from the most powerful cosmic essence.

[Noexalt]

I said I'd never come back here and post again, but here I am...ugh.

I think the problem with this subject coming up so much is basically because - - it's not resolved. It's not resolved in the non-Baha'i world or in the Baha'i world. Even if the UHJ says that Baha'is should not discriminate, it still happens, and there is no "program" to weed out the prejudices against gays in the Baha'i community like there has been for other groups.

When the "rules" in the Faith do not allow gay marriage, and force the break up of gay relationships when one or both of the parties is a Baha'i, while a blind eye (breathe not the sins of others!) is turned toward heterosexual relationships that "might" be living outside the moral boundaries of the Faith (don't ask don't tell), in fact the relationship is encouraged to the point of marriage. So then there is an imbalance which all the discussion in the world isn't going to rectify.

My feeling has always been that Shoghi Effendi felt that the situation should be handled equally. However, this would create an "impossible and ridiculous situation" (Emphasis on the word IMPOSSIBLE)..so what does Impossible mean? I think it ultimately means "leave everybody alone and mind your own business, because putting sanctions on everybody would be a nightmare!"

I often think of the Mormons and their practices of polygamy. Although Mormons may disagree with me, when the US government pressured them, they had a "revelation" that polygamy should be discontinued. If the US government started giving religious bodies a hard time about not allowing gay marriage, what would the Baha'is do? Would the Baha'is remain respectful and obedient to the government, or would they openly oppose the government?

Let's for the sake of argument "assume" that Homosexuality and Homosexual relationships are in fact condemned by God, and are detrimental to society. Could the UHJ issue a temporary stay on the laws toward homosexuality until such a time when it could be realized on a wider scale that homosexuality was detrimental to humanity (scientifically, socially, etc.)? I mean, the laws of the Aqdas did not apply for a long time, in fact, it was not translated, and even when it was, the laws weren't in effect right away. But the laws didn't change, they still existed, and still said what they said. No more than the laws on homosexuality in the Faith would change...but couldn't the UHJ put a temporary hold on the laws for an indefinite period of time (until conditions are more propitious) and there isn't this confusing nightmare?

I mean, if the Baha'i Faith will one day realize a world where we don't have such issues, then surely that day will come.


Just an idea.