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Old 11-15-2012, 08:27 PM   #1
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Baha'i prophet calls Black people cows!

I know this forum dies without my awesome comments, so I did some digging
I'm sure Baha'is will argue that that's not what he meant and he was actually trying to talk about human unity LOL

Talks of Abdul-Baha in Europe and America, Abdul-Baha, p. 203
For instance, you see the blacks in Africa who are in fact cows that God has created in the shape of human beings, and then you see the blacks of America, who are smart, civilized and cultured. Visiting schools and assemblies of blacks in Washington, during this trip, and having extensive discussions, they could understand my points like the smart Europeans.
 
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:54 PM   #2
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Why should I trust this saying attributed to Abdu'l-Baha? Who recorded his talk?
 
Old 11-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #3
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I dunno.....God? It's from that site with all the Baha'i writings in multiple languages.
 
Old 11-16-2012, 03:47 AM   #5
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There are many statements in the Baha'i texts which show it is very much stuck in the past, despite Baha'is insistence that it is quite progressive...

Truly, it would be much better if Baha'is looked instead at modern Sufi's, for Baha'u'llah and Bab were nothing but advanced Sufi's. In Sufi terms, they are certainly prophets, but this is only the highest peaks of this esoteric tradition. Seven Pillars House of Wisdom is a good place to start, and Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee is a truly beautiful example. There are numerous other Sufi groups which are equally beautiful, but few are as progressive and so attuned to unity as these...

People must learn that without a living master, nothing much is really possible. We create a truth of Baha'u'llahs words about Manifestations being higher than normal humans because we do not pursue for ourselves the same heights he reached. It is absolutely necessary to imbibe the energies of an enlightened man to become enlightened yourself, but after death no master can really help - you will just study the words and think you understand. You will strive to perfect your personality, but it utterly misses the point. We must see through personality itself, seeing it is the set of programming we have accepted...

True spirituality only starts when we become centered in the heart, when we truly become expressions of love in the world. This is the true definition of love, any act which comes directly from the heart. Its rewards are thought of when we consider love, things like joy or bliss, ecstasy and happiness all are simply the effects of love being expressed. There is no end to these if our actions are all from the heart, but without these we become almost as dead by comparison. Such as these I am convinced is where the notion of the zombie has come, for fearing light really is like being the undead. Religion is about abundant life, increasing the depths of aliveness in us.
 
Old 11-16-2012, 03:59 AM   #6
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Allah'u'abha,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napkin View Post
I know this forum dies without my awesome comments, so I did some digging
Sure, looking forward to some more awesome discoveries!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napkin View Post
I'm sure Baha'is will argue that that's not what he meant and he was actually trying to talk about human unity LOL...
Very well you may have it your way, then I am not going to address the simple matter of quote mining, contextualising, or attempting to skew the original intended meaning of the Writings. And I actually do not need to. You see, we do not need to "argue" in defense of the Writings, because there is nothing to defend. Whether one wishes to demonstrate prejudism by intentionally misinterpreting the original meaning of the writing, or chooses the will to sophistication and wordliness to discover the mystery of abjad Poetry, is wholly between him and God

Instead, I will address the following separate but related concern. Do realise that this is from an article written by an uncredited Azadeh Haiati who made his own personal translation of the Writings and posted it on a website* dedicated to attempts at misrepresenting (to no avail) the Faith and Baha'is. (*Human Equality in the Bahai Faith - The Bahai Awareness Homepage)

Dear forum viewers should then ask themselves: who is more credible, Oxford university students and linguists who have come up with similar conclusions about the obvious completeness of unity in the Writings, or this some other guy's (mis)interpretation?

"LOL",
Anis
 
Old 11-16-2012, 06:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunitik View Post
There are many statements in the Baha'i texts which show it is very much stuck in the past, despite Baha'is insistence that it is quite progressive...
The Baha'i Faith is quite progressive. Let's not brush the Baha'i Faith's history of progressiveness under the rug. Let's compare the actions of Southern Baptists with Abdu'l-Baha.

The history of the Southern Baptist Church and its stance on racism is well-known:
The first Southern Baptist churches were birthed out of a desire to appoint slaveholders as missionaries. Preachers in the denomination vocally opposed the civil rights movement and supported Jim Crow laws. In 1956, Texas pastor W.A. Criswell, still considered a paragon among contemporary Southern Baptists, argued before a joint session of the South Carolina legislature that de-segregation was un-Christian.

In the last 30 years or so, however, the SBC has made progress. Criswell apologized for his position before he died, and the convention passed a Johnny-come-lately "Resolution on Racism" in 1989 stating, "Southern Baptists have not always clearly stood for racial justice and equality." Better late than never.
Abdu'l-Baha, on the other hand, never participated in racism, nor did he utter racist comments:
Abdu’l-Bah demonstrated His vision of racial equality by bold and unconventional actions from His first days in America. In Washington, D.C., He set the tone at a luncheon in His honor on April 23, 1912, held at the home of a prominent Persian diplomat, who was also a Bah’. ‘Abdu’l-Bah took His place, looking around the elegant dining room at the white faces, everyone seated according to rank and social position and in keeping with strict Washington social protocol. He stood up and asked his host, “Where is Mr. Gregory? Bring Mr. Gregory.” The embarrassed host had no choice but to hastily rearrange the place settings and make room for the extra guest, African-American attorney Louis Gregory, who had escorted ‘Abdu’l-Bah to the diplomat’s house from Howard University where He had just spoken. Mr. Gregory was quietly taking his leave. ‘Abdu’l-Bah insisted that he join the party and occupy the honored place to His right at the head of the table. Thus, in a single stroke, ‘Abdu’l-Bah defied Washington protocol and swept aside the practice of segregation by race and categorization by social rank, setting a powerful example, and challenging the customs of the deeply divided capital city. Throughout His U.S. visit, ‘Abdu’l-Bah insisted that every venue where He spoke be open to people of all races.
Also see Alain Locke.

Last edited by ahanu; 11-16-2012 at 06:23 AM.
 
Old 11-16-2012, 10:05 AM   #8
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I did find a reference to "cow" in Ocean and it reads as follows:

Consider ye! No matter how much man gains wealth, riches and opulence in this world, he will not become as independent as a cow. For these fattened cows roam freely over the vast tableland. All the prairies and meadows are theirs for grazing, and all the springs and rivers are theirs for drinking! No matter how much they graze, the fields will not be exhausted! It is evident that they have earned these material bounties with the utmost facility.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of the Divine Plan, p. 44

So those who acquire great wealth could have less independence than a cow!

There was no reference to what the Napkin cites...

In terms of what Lunatik wrote above:

There are many statements in the Baha'i texts which show it is very much stuck in the past...

Since Abdul-Baha spoke Farsi on His travels and had translators who themselves probably did their best there are probably a few references that were conditioned by the translators themselves...and spoke to the times.
 
Old 11-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #9
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I found some simillar statements, which are attributed to Abdulbaha. He is talking about African tribes who practiced cannibalism in that time.

"If man himself is left in his natural state, he will become lower than the animal and continue to grow more ignorant and imperfect. The savage tribes of central Africa are evidences of this. Left in their natural condition, they have sunk to the lowest depths and degrees of barbarism, dimly groping in a world of mental and moral obscurity. If we wish to illumine this dark plane of human existence, we must bring man forth from the hopeless captivity of nature, educate him and show him the pathway of light and knowledge, until, uplifted from his condition of ignorance, he becomes wise and knowing; no longer savage and revengeful, he becomes civilized and kind; once evil and sinister, he is endowed with the attributes of heaven. But left in his natural condition without education and training, it is certain that he will become more depraved and vicious than the animal, even to the extreme degree witnessed among African tribes who practice cannibalism. It is evident, therefore, that the world of nature is incomplete, imperfect until awakened and illumined by the light and stimulus of education. "

Bah' Reference Library - The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Pages 308-312
 
Old 11-16-2012, 11:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Napkin View Post
Talks of Abdul-Baha in Europe and America, Abdul-Baha, p. 203
For instance, you see the blacks in Africa who are in fact cows that God has created in the shape of human beings, and then you see the blacks of America, who are smart, civilized and cultured. Visiting schools and assemblies of blacks in Washington, during this trip, and having extensive discussions, they could understand my points like the smart Europeans.
You can prove, or at least insinuate, anything you like, by pulling words out of context. Here's my translation of the same passage, with more context:

Quote:
…the world of existence is in need of an educator, and educators are of two kinds, the one who trains the natural world, and the one who enlightens the world of true reality. If the earth is left in the state of nature, it becomes a jungle or a thorn thicket. But with the intervention of a benevolent gardener, the jungle becomes a garden, the thorns give way to flowers. So it is evident that training is needed in the world of nature. Likewise, observe that if the human race were to be deprived of training and education, it would become a corrupted body, just as the wild tribes are not differentiated from the animals. For example, see how great the difference is, between the blacks in Africa and the blacks in America. One is a beast God created in human form, while the other is civilized, perceptive and cultured. In this journey [to America] I delivered complex addresses at the meetings and churches and schools of the blacks in Washington. They mastered every point, just like the philosophers of Europe. And what difference is there, between blacks in these two places, the one in a most benighted state and the other at the summit of civilization, except for education? It is certain that teaching and education is the cause of the high attainment of the one, and lack of education has led to the wretchedness of the other.
His target here is Jean-Jacques Rousseau and the idea of the noble savage (savage in French: the wild, undomesticated thing, as in wildflowers etc..) If Rousseau's ideas were correct, we would need no educator, of either type. Abdu'l-Baha says we need educators of both types. I think he's right

[PS: the source given in the o.p. was incorrect: it is volume 2 page 48 of talks of Abdu'l-Baha, online here:
http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/ab/KA3/ka3-50.html#pg48 ]

Last edited by Sen McGlinn; 11-16-2012 at 11:29 AM.
 
Old 11-16-2012, 03:24 PM   #11
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I think this thread shows why we have authorised translations. Not only are the people who translate these sacred text masters of the languages they are translating they are also people who understand the spirit of the teachings and their work is checked carefully to provide us with the best translation possible. I, for one, am grateful for their wonderful service. Maybe I could learn the original Arabic and Persian language and read for myself but I don't have the tallent for foreign languages. I am happy that option is open to anyone who wishes to take it but I would not want to rely on my ability to pick up a foreign language...

With the very beautiful language in the writings any number of references could have some strange alternatives that don't convey the same meaning. A friend once told me that when trying to understand some of the Persian writings, as a beginner, finding a reference to "the smell of my shirt" confused him. Later, when he asked someone with a better knowledge of the language to help they read it as "the fragrance of my garment" which is very poetic language and has a different meaning in this context.
 
Old 11-16-2012, 03:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollwr View Post
they read it as "the fragrance of my garment" which is very poetic language and has a different meaning in this context.
The allusion is to the story of Joseph (the technicolour dreamcoat Joseph, not the carpenter of Nazareth). His father is blind, and mourning the son he thinks is dead, but his sons have gone to Egypt and met Joseph there:

Quote:
They [the brothers] said: By Allah, verily Allah hath preferred thee [Joseph] above us, and we were indeed sinful.
He said: Have no fear this day! May Allah forgive you, and He is the Most Merciful of those who show mercy.
Go with this shirt of mine and lay it on my father's face, he will become (again) a seer; and come to me with all your folk.
When the caravan departed their father had said: Truly I am conscious of the breath of Joseph, though ye call me dotard.
(Those around him) said: By Allah, lo! thou art in thine old aberration.
Then, when the bearer of glad tidings came, he laid it on his face and he became a seer once more. He said: Said I not unto you that I know from Allah that which ye know not ?
They said: O our father! Ask forgiveness of our sins for us, for lo! we were sinful.
He said: I shall ask forgiveness for you of my Lord. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 12 - Joseph - vv 91-98)
 
Old 11-17-2012, 07:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollwr View Post
I think this thread shows why we have authorised translations. Not only are the people who translate these sacred text masters of the languages they are translating they are also people who understand the spirit of the teachings and their work is checked carefully to provide us with the best translation possible.
And if u do ur own translating, you'll realize the translator changed everything that sounds ridiculous, and changed it to something that's more appealing to new converts
 
Old 11-17-2012, 07:19 AM   #14
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Quote:

With the very beautiful language in the writings any number of references could have some strange alternatives that don't convey the same meaning.
Yes, for example, when abdulbaha said "blacks of Africa are like cows shaped like humans", it was translated to something like"it's nice to see blacks and whites living in harmony"
 
Old 11-17-2012, 08:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthra View Post
I did find a reference to "cow" in Ocean. . . .
Ah, but you missed 'Abdu'l-Baha's best cow quote of all, Art!:

Strange indeed that after twenty years training in colleges and universities man should reach such a station wherein he will deny the existence of the ideal or that which is not perceptible to the senses. Have you ever stopped to think that the animal already has graduated from such a university? Have you ever realized that the cow is already a professor emeritus of that university? For the cow without hard labor and study is already a philosopher of the superlative degree in the school of nature. The cow denies everything that is not tangible, saying, 'I can see! I can eat! Therefore, I believe only in that which is tangible!'

"Then why should we go to the colleges? Let us go to the cow."


Cheers! :-)

Bruce
 
Old 11-17-2012, 10:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Napkin View Post
Yes, for example, when abdulbaha said "blacks of Africa are like cows shaped like humans", it was translated to something like"it's nice to see blacks and whites living in harmony"
the Persian text is online here:
مرجع كتب وآثار بهائی - خطابات ضرت عبدالبهاء - جلد ۳٬ صفه ۴۸
can you tell me the line number, where you see the word "cow" ( گاو )
 
Old 11-17-2012, 02:17 PM   #17
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line #1 through 60
 
Old 11-18-2012, 05:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
Truly, it would be much better if Baha'is looked instead at modern Sufi's, for Baha'u'llah and Bab were nothing but advanced Sufi's. In Sufi terms, they are certainly prophets, but this is only the highest peaks of this esoteric tradition. Seven Pillars House of Wisdom is a good place to start, and Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee is a truly beautiful example. There are numerous other Sufi groups which are equally beautiful, but few are as progressive and so attuned to unity as these...
Assalama Alaikum,

Brother, while I agree Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee is indeed a very good example of what it means to be a ṣūfī, I really don't see much correlation between Baha'u'llah and ṣūfī Islam...

While I was traveling a few times, the nearest Masjid was a Sufi one, and being that it was jumu'ah, I figured I would stop in. At least for the one I went to, they seemed almost like their Sunni counterparts except they practiced a daily meditation and were very keen on Islamic spirituality, and freedom from materialism. Which is something we can all benefit from. They have their own set of Ahadith, which is worth mentioning.

They said they didn't associate themselves with either of the sects, whereas Baha'u'llah based his claims on the twelverism movement in shi'a Islam.

Just my two cents
 
Old 11-18-2012, 05:40 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Lunitik View Post

People must learn that without a living master, nothing much is really possible. We create a truth of Baha'u'llahs words about Manifestations being higher than normal humans because we do not pursue for ourselves the same heights he reached. It is absolutely necessary to imbibe the energies of an enlightened man to become enlightened yourself, but after death no master can really help - you will just study the words and think you understand. You will strive to perfect your personality, but it utterly misses the point. We must see through personality itself, seeing it is the set of programming we have accepted...
.
why do you need a living master?
Isnt God the only true living master anyway.
Human beings cannot learn from human beings we learn from God and God teaches through the channels of his spiritual revelation which is the manifestations of God. It is not their ego they teach from it is imparting Gods message.
So its not about who the master is, its about how we can become more like God or his perfect mirrors.
 
Old 11-18-2012, 02:23 PM   #20
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I'm sure Abdu'l-Baha used those words, just never in that combination on that topic.

The quote that has been submitted was retrieved from a website that has made-up anecdotes to support its attacks on the Baha'i Faith.
 
Old 11-18-2012, 02:40 PM   #21
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I know this forum dies without my awesome comments, so I did some digging
I'm sure Baha'is will argue that that's not what he meant and he was actually trying to talk about human unity LOL

Talks of Abdul-Baha in Europe and America, Abdul-Baha, p. 203
For instance, you see the blacks in Africa who are in fact cows that God has created in the shape of human beings, and then you see the blacks of America, who are smart, civilized and cultured. Visiting schools and assemblies of blacks in Washington, during this trip, and having extensive discussions, they could understand my points like the smart Europeans.
This "quote" was constructed by someone as anecdotes to support their attacks on the Baha'i Faith. There are some wonderful about cows, but no racist ones.

Quote:
I found some simillar statements, which are attributed to Abdulbaha. He is talking about African tribes who practiced cannibalism in that time.

"If man himself is left in his natural state, he will become lower than the animal and continue to grow more ignorant and imperfect. The savage tribes of central Africa are evidences of this. Left in their natural condition, they have sunk to the lowest depths and degrees of barbarism, dimly groping in a world of mental and moral obscurity. If we wish to illumine this dark plane of human existence, we must bring man forth from the hopeless captivity of nature, educate him and show him the pathway of light and knowledge, until, uplifted from his condition of ignorance, he becomes wise and knowing; no longer savage and revengeful, he becomes civilized and kind; once evil and sinister, he is endowed with the attributes of heaven. But left in his natural condition without education and training, it is certain that he will become more depraved and vicious than the animal, even to the extreme degree witnessed among African tribes who practice cannibalism. It is evident, therefore, that the world of nature is incomplete, imperfect until awakened and illumined by the light and stimulus of education. "

Bah' Reference Library - The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Pages 308-312
This quote used to confuse me and throw me off. It is obvious, that in modern, politically-correct terms, this is just not the type of things you say. The message here is that without enlightenment, humans engage in hollow and debased ritual; that without education we are misguided.

Despite being politically incorrect by modern standards, it is refreshing that Abdu'l-Baha proposes that nature is "...incomplete, imperfect..." as I think with the fear of impending global and environmental catastrophes, people make themselves feel good by idealizing nature as 'whole', 'complete', 'balancing'...

I always found this viewpoint shallow and idyllic and it refreshing to hear an opposing viewpoint voiced by The Master.

I was surprised when I learned that Gandhi was a racist (against Africans, mostly), but I think it would a stretch to extrapolate that because The Master found cannibalism to be a disgusting act that he was racist. I'm sure around that time people were hyping up reports of cannibalism as they further refined their own racist stereotypes of the 'other'; but the fact remains that this is a real cultural practice.

I mean, just over 4 000 years ago, all the civilizations where the great religions were developed, animal sacrifices and warring and pillaging were regular religious practices.
 
Old 11-21-2012, 10:15 PM   #22
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yes, it sounds like the Abdulbahha guy said allot of politically incorrect things....but again, being an old iranian man in the 19th century, he did not know we'd be dissecting his comments online, did he....
 
Old 12-06-2012, 06:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvestigateTruth View Post
I found some simillar statements, which are attributed to Abdulbaha. He is talking about African tribes who practiced cannibalism in that time.

"If man himself is left in his natural state, he will become lower than the animal and continue to grow more ignorant and imperfect. The savage tribes of central Africa are evidences of this. Left in their natural condition, they have sunk to the lowest depths and degrees of barbarism, dimly groping in a world of mental and moral obscurity. If we wish to illumine this dark plane of human existence, we must bring man forth from the hopeless captivity of nature, educate him and show him the pathway of light and knowledge, until, uplifted from his condition of ignorance, he becomes wise and knowing; no longer savage and revengeful, he becomes civilized and kind; once evil and sinister, he is endowed with the attributes of heaven. But left in his natural condition without education and training, it is certain that he will become more depraved and vicious than the animal, even to the extreme degree witnessed among African tribes who practice cannibalism. It is evident, therefore, that the world of nature is incomplete, imperfect until awakened and illumined by the light and stimulus of education. "

Bah' Reference Library - The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Pages 308-312
This dude clearly doesn't know that those primitive people he calls savages have a far less negative impact on the planet than those he calls educated.
 
Old 12-06-2012, 02:20 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Nima21 View Post
Despite being politically incorrect by modern standards, it is refreshing that Abdu'l-Baha proposes that nature is "...incomplete, imperfect..." as I think with the fear of impending global and environmental catastrophes, people make themselves feel good by idealizing nature as 'whole', 'complete', 'balancing'...
The text in PUP is not the best one to use, because of the successive layers of editing it has gone through. This passage comes from a talk about education that Abdul-Baha gave in Montreal on 2 September 1912. Persian notes of the talk were published in the Persian section of Star of the West, volume 5 page 96 and in Khatabat-e Abdul-Baha vol 2 page 233. What Abdul-Baha says, according to the Persian notes, is :

Quote:
If we look closely at the world of nature and penetrate to the depth of its secrets, it will be observed that the world of nature is defective and dark. For example, if we abandon a piece of land and return it to the state of nature it becomes thorny
In the same way, if man is abandoned to nature, he becomes worse than an animal. He remains unenlightened and ignorant, like the inhabitants of Central Africa. Therefore, if we are continually seeking this dark world we become like the Turanians [legendary enemies of the Iranians in the Shah-Nameh epic]. [If] we have education, uncultured people become cultured, those with bad characters gain good characters.
This is representative of a number of Abdul-Bahas talks, recorded in Persian and in English, in which he discusses the imperfection of humans in the state of nature. He is arguing against the contemporary cultural fad of primitivism and, specifically in relation to educational theory, the idea of Rousseau that nature is inherently perfect, and that uncorrupted morals prevail in humans in the state of nature.

This talk is interesting, because Abdul-Baha gives two examples of what people are like if left in the state of nature: one is a fictional ancient people, the Turanians, and the other is the people of Central Africa. Abdul-Baha is asking us to imagine what people are like if entirely in the state of nature. Today, we might say, imagine an isolated group who have never been contacted, in New Guinea or deep in the Amazon. Such thought experiments are not derogatory references to an actual people, because obviously once we know about an actual people, they also know about us, and we can no longer imagine them as a people untouched by our ways. So the natural man is always imagined living in unexplored territory. In the lead-up to World War I, Central Africa was used in this figure of speech, because Central Africa had captured European imagination through the exploits of the 19th century explorers and the machinations of the colonial powers scramble for Africa. The map of the continent had largely been coloured in, but what lay within the claimed territories was still a matter of speculation. In the world of sober fact, New Guinea and the Amazon and Orinoco basins were even more uncharted in those days, but in the world of imagination, Africa was the name to conjure with. Moreover, because of the impact of the slave trade and of English, French and Arab incursions, societies in Central Africa may well have been at a deep point, even compared to their own past.

If we are being strictly consistent with Bahai teachings, both the ancient Turanians and a hypothetic people in nineteenth century Central Africa are inappropriate examples of humanity in a state of nature, since the Bahai teachings say that God has never left any people without grace and the guidance of prophets and saints; moreover, the word I have translated as training or education means something much broader than formal education: it includes the upbringing that parents give to their children. Can we even imagine a people without that? The pure natural man without such education is obviously a fiction, a figure of speech for use in a thought experiment.

Emerson said that consistency is the foible of weak minds: a little doctrinal inconsistency doesnt seem to have inhibited Abdul-Baha in expressing his views on the theories about human beings in the state of nature. In one case, during a talk given at the London home of Lady Blomfield, on Christmas eve 1912, he first removes the adults from the scene, and then reintroduces the Central Africans:

Quote:
if children were left in the desert, never receiving education, it is certain that they would remain ignorant, that they would know nothing of civilization, they would have neither skilled crafts, nor trade, nor agriculture. They would be like the inhabitants of Central Africa, who are wild in the extreme. The difference between Europe and Africa is certainly due to education, for people in Europe receive an education, while people in Africa do not. This is clear proof that humans are in need of education. Education is of two types: spiritual and worldly (My translation)
In these arguments Abdul-Baha is adopting a current discourse in which Central Africa was the supposed home of natural man, and uses it, but he is not adopting racial stereotypes about the negro race.

There's more on this topic on my Bahai Studies blog:
Abdu
 
Old 12-08-2012, 06:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Napkin View Post
I know this forum dies without my awesome comments, so I did some digging
I'm sure Baha'is will argue that that's not what he meant and he was actually trying to talk about human unity LOL

Talks of Abdul-Baha in Europe and America, Abdul-Baha, p. 203
For instance, you see the blacks in Africa who are in fact cows that God has created in the shape of human beings, and then you see the blacks of America, who are smart, civilized and cultured. Visiting schools and assemblies of blacks in Washington, during this trip, and having extensive discussions, they could understand my points like the smart Europeans.
If you look at what he was saying, it's the antithesis of racism. He was arguing that the differences among people is primarily environmental rather than racial. Because the blacks in America share the same race as blacks in Africa. But the Blacks in America had the advantage of public education. That made them equal to educated Europeans in their ability to understand 'Abdu'l-baha's points in his talks.
 
Old 12-13-2012, 11:20 PM   #26
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It is absolutely necessary to imbibe the energies of an enlightened man to become enlightened yourself, "

False statement..thats not True..you do not have to Imbibe the energies of an Enlightened Individual to become enlightened..to wake up is your own birthright...and just by being around an Enlightened man day and night will Not ..Absolutely NOT!! wake you up...a Master is a Cherished Blessing..perhaps He might help one to wake up sooner and He is Certainly a Dear Friend because He is consistently sane and offers a pure and sane consciousness..and can share His own experiences...but that is by no means some ticket to Enlightenment..if it were the world would be saved Yesterday..and by the Same token..no man has to have a living Enlightened Being in their life to become Enlightened..of course its a good excuse to put waking up off if there is no Enlightened Friend in sight...
 
Old 12-14-2012, 12:09 AM   #27
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it was very nice to visit the Bahai forum and see what is going on here..

To the One that Gets It..you do not Need a Living Enlightened Master or Prophet..
You Get It and now all you do is go deeper into it..

Even if a Certain Living Master who is now Not Living SAID..
That You need a Living Enlightened Being...
Dont take Him so Literally...
He said one thing one day and another the next...
you Have to look Beyond His words...
i know His ways as well as i know my own ways...
Dont hang on every word He ever spoke..
You will only end up confused...
Listen to the Gaps Inbetween His words...
and He is not so far away from you as you might imagine..

not only that..
You do not need to follow any Enlightened man..
nor any doctrine of any kind..
The Truth is right there in you...
Continue as you are...
You are a voice of sanity in a madhouse..
i dont mean this forum
i mean with other humans in general...

You Know the Truth...
You cannot really turn back once you Get It
and you Surely dont Need that Living Enlightened Person...
All of Existence is Helping you and You have taken Responsibility..
It shows clearly in the words you speak...

its sad that others treat you as they do..
and i lied before...
i know why you keep sharing...

it is your Love for others...
 
Old 12-14-2012, 03:42 AM   #28
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I know this forum dies without my awesome comments, so I did some digging
I'm sure Baha'is will argue that that's not what he meant and he was actually trying to talk about human unity LOL

Talks of Abdul-Baha in Europe and America, Abdul-Baha, p. 203
For instance, you see the blacks in Africa who are in fact cows that God has created in the shape of human beings, and then you see the blacks of America, who are smart, civilized and cultured. Visiting schools and assemblies of blacks in Washington, during this trip, and having extensive discussions, they could understand my points like the smart Europeans.

Napkin - It is obvious if any one wants to attack the Faith all they have to do is post rubbish as you have done.

I will leave it up to others to search the truth and make their minds up for themselves - here is a link to the truth about the Bahai Faith and to the authorised translations of the writings.

The Bah

Regards Tony
 
Old 12-14-2012, 04:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Napkin View Post
For instance, you see the blacks in Africa who are in fact cows that God has created in the shape of human beings, and then you see the blacks of America, who are smart, civilized and cultured. Visiting schools and assemblies of blacks in Washington, during this trip, and having extensive discussions, they could understand my points like the smart Europeans.
Sorry, the ONLY site where I've found this quote is "BahaiAwareness" a muslim site that attacks the Baha'i Faith, so I think this quote is a fake.
Most of the quotes of Abdul Baha can be found in dozens of sites...
No other sources?
 
Old 12-14-2012, 06:46 AM   #30
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Sorry, the ONLY site where I've found this quote is "BahaiAwareness" a muslim site that attacks the Baha'i Faith, so I think this quote is a fake.
Most of the quotes of Abdul Baha can be found in dozens of sites...
No other sources?
I think Sen has done a good responce on this here:

Abdu
 
Old 12-14-2012, 07:33 AM   #31
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I think Sen has done a good responce on this here:

Abdu
Thank you!
 
Old 01-13-2013, 07:03 PM   #32
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Hello each and everyone there . I am so happy being a member of your lovely community. I hope to enjoy your views and would be a fruitful member.

Napkin wrote on 15 Nov. 2012, 9:27 PM:
Quote:
I'm sure Baha'is will argue that THAT'S NOT WHAT HE MEANT and he was actually trying to talk about human unity LOL
Hello Napkin, though the translation of the words you have quoted from, is not just and as Persian say, "the pen Is in the enemy's hand", but I believe that what 'Abdu'l-Baha wrote is what He was intended to convey and He wrote just WHAT HE MEANT!

The editors of the site who are the inveterate enemies of the Faith translated and interpreted the Persian words of 'Abdu'l-Baha, and presented it in such a tone which conveys that 'Abdu'l-Baha does not love the black people and had insulted them but you will see later that it was not so.

'Abdu'l-Baha in this letter to a Baha'i friend regarding the need of mankind for Divine Guidance, refers to the necessity of educator and teacher in every aspect of life and describes in detail the two kinds of educators and the three kinds of education namely material, human and spiritual. Regarding the HUMAN EDUCATION He puts forward similitude from human societies and compares the profit of education in some society and the disadvantages produced by lack of education in the others and what example was better than comparing the advanced American blacks with the blacks in the Central Africa, who were wild and cannibals, because of the lack of education. (Please see Cannibalism-Wikipedia, the free Encyclopaedia in the Net).

In logic, concerning "discussion", it is said that, in the case of "example" or "similitude" there must be no "debate" or "contention" (Dar Mathal Munaqishih nist). It must be noted in this connection that in Persian literature "COW" is the symbol of "IGNORANCE" and 'Abdu'l-Baha by putting forward this similitude wants to distinguish "ignorance" from "wisdom" caused by "lack of education" and "acquiring knowledge" respectively and doesn't want to insult, contempt or disdain the black people whom He regards as the PUPIL OF HIS EYES, the dearest things in Persian expression to love, and you will see later this reality in His numerous writings I am going to quote.

Referring to the Persian Tablet of 'Abdu'l-Baha which has quoted by our friend, I have to add that in the Persian and the Arabic literature the word "BAQAR" (cow) relates to ignorance and "BASHAR" (human) relates to wisdom and these two words rhyme each other.
The rhythmic words in this letter remind me of another Tablet of 'Abdu'l-Baha to a believer by the name, Siavash, which has not translated into English, in that letter Abdu'l-Baha compares the ancient tyrants who had shed the blood of Siavash, the noble, handsome and chaste prince of Kai Khosrow, the king of Persian Empire, as "predators and blood shedders" and the kind people as "birds and sympathisers", and mentions that the former were oppressive as devils and the latter were kind as angels and samaritans, then He adds, they were both in the guise of human; one was as "QAMAR" (moon) (which is illumined), and the other as "BAQAR" (cow) (which is the symbol of ignorance) and then tell him to consider how much was the difference between the two! (Both words, Qamar and Baqar rhyme each other too).

Thanks to Napkin who caused to disclose the tricks of the ill-wishers by introducing a part of the site in order to discuss about, that the reality of things may be revealed to our friends in this thread. We know that for a true religion, "denial and opposition", as 'Abdu'l-Baha asserts in one of His Paris talks, "causes the strengthening of a Faith":

" . We know that all the falsehoods spread about Christ and His apostles and all the books written against Him, only led the people to inquire into His doctrine; then, having seen the beauty and inhaled the fragrance, they walked evermore amidst the roses and the fruits of that celestial garden. ..Therefore when you see books and papers written against the Revelation (of Baha'u'llah), be not distressed, but take comfort in the assurance that the cause will thereby gain strength. NO ONE CASTS STONES AT A TREE WITHOUT FRUIT. NO ONE TRIES TO EXTINGUISH A LAMP WITHOUT LIGHT! (Paris talks, Ps. 104-105).

Jesus says: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew, 7:7-8).

Our friend, Napkin has followed Jesus' counsel, but I think he didn't knock the right door, willingly or accidentally, to ask for guidance, but a door whose denizens were ill-wishers and show the crooked way rather than the straight one; in general, HE WHO SEEKS FOR AN IDEOLOGICAL TRUTH NORMALLY HAS TO ASK FROM THE BELIEVERS OF THAT IDEOLOGY OR THOSE WHO ARE NEUTRON AND NONALIGNED, not from those who are against it, otherwise he may be wandered erringly in the deserts of ignorance, heedlessness and error, if he doesn't consult the subject with others; I checked the site and saw that the "Bahai Awareness" is a site founded by the Muslim Fundamentalists and all the site from the beginning to the end is as usual absolutely false and full of lies for the defamation of the Baha'i Faith and the title of the site itself (bahaiawareness) reveals the intention of the designer(s) and discloses its purpose, namely, bewares the people TO BE AWARE of the risk of GETTING NEAR ACCESS TO BAHA'IS and thus mislead (or in their assumption guide to the straight path) those who are on the ways of searching the Truth. To be continued

Last edited by Request; 01-14-2013 at 03:26 AM.
 
Old 01-13-2013, 10:55 PM   #33
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Hello each and everyone there . I am so happy being a member of your lovely community. I hope to enjoy your views and would be a fruitful member.
Hello right back at you - That was a well written post

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-14-2013, 03:32 AM   #34
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Thank you very much Tonny, love, Request.
 
Old 01-14-2013, 04:02 AM   #35
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Conti.
We know that the believers of all the religions of the world at the dawn of their Faith had confronted with such different kinds of opposition and distortion of the realities of their Faith, but as the Qur'an certifies, none of the enemies of truth could extinguish the light which ignited by the hands of God:

"They want to extinguish God's [guiding] light with their utterances: but God will not allow [this to pass], for He has willed to spread His light in all its fullness, however hateful this may be to all who deny the truth. (THE QUR'AN, 9:32).

"They aim to extinguish God's light with their utterances: but God has willed to spread His light in all its fullness, however hateful this may be to all who deny the truth". (THE QUR'AN, 61:8).

In this connection Baha'u'llah revealed the following statement:
" .. Behold how in this Dispensation the worthless and foolish have fondly imagined that by such instruments as massacre, plunder and banishment they can extinguish the Lamp which the Hand of Divine power hath lit, or eclipse the Day Star of everlasting splendor. How utterly unaware they seem to be of the truth that such adversity is THE OIL THAT FEEDETH THE FLAME OF THIS LAMP! Such is Gods transforming power. He changeth whatsoever He willeth; He verily hath power over all things.".

The same truth prophesied by Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith which is already fulfilling:
" . Indeed this fresh ordeal that has, in pursuance of the mysterious dispensations of Providence, afflicted the Faith, at this unexpected hour, far from dealing a fatal blow to its institutions or existence, should be regarded AS A BLESSING IN DISGUISE, not a calamity but a providence of God, not a "devastating flood" but a gentle rain on a green pasture, a wick and oil unto the lamp of His Faith", a nurture for "His Cause", water" for that which "has been planted in the hearts of men", a crown" set on the head of His Messenger for this Day.

Whatever its outcome, this sudden commotion that has seized the Bah world, that has revived the hopes and emboldened the host of the adversaries of the Faith intent on quenching its light and obliterating it from the face of the earth, has served as a TRUMPET CALL in the sounding of which the press of the world, the cries of its vociferous enemies, the public remonstrances of both MEN OF GOOD WILL and THOSE IN AUTHORITY have joined, proclaiming far and wide its existence, publicising its history, defending its verities, unveiling its truths, demonstrating the character of its institutions and advertising its aims and purposes .. ". (Citadel of Faith, p. 139).

This reality was uttered by the tongue of a sovereign, Victoria, the Queen of the Great Britain who, upon reading the Tablet revealed for her by Baha'u'llah, remarked: "IF THIS IS OF GOD, IT WILL ENDURE, IF NOT, IT CAN DO NO HARM". (The Promised Day is Come, P. 65). And this truth was the secret of the ENDURANCE of her kingdom, while all other kingdoms vanished without any trace! If all the enemies of the Faith of God, in all ages of religious history were acting according to "Queen Victoria's Counsel", all the people of the world had just believed in One Faith!

I wonder why sometimes as testified by Jesus, the people "behold the mote that is in their brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in their own eye?
Similar to the similitude of 'Abdu'l-Baha, attributing the people of ignorance to animals, not only could be find in the Qur'an, the Bible and other religious books, but ALL OF THEM go much further and assert that NOT ONLY HUMAN COULD BE DEBASED AND BRUTAL AS WILD ANIMALS, BUT COULD BE WORST THAN ANIMAL AND SINKS EVEN LOWER THAN THE BRUTE if he "left in his natural state", "denies the truth", "heedless of Divine warnings" and or "disbelieves in Divine Revelations":

FROM 'ABDU'L-BAHA:
"If man himself is left in his natural state, he will BECOME LOWER THAN THE ANIMAL and continue to grow more ignorant and imperfect. The savage tribes of central Africa are evidences of this. Left in their natural condition, they have sunk to the lowest depths and degrees of barbarism, dimly groping in a world of mental and moral obscurity. If we wish to illumine this dark plane of human existence, we must bring man forth from the hopeless captivity of nature, educate him and show him the pathway of light and knowledge, until, uplifted from his condition of ignorance, he becomes wise and knowing; no longer savage and revengeful, he becomes civilized and kind; once evil and sinister, he is endowed with the attributes of heaven. But left in his natural condition without education and training, it is certain that he WILL BECOME MORE DEPRAVED AND VICIOUS THAN THE ANIMAL, EVEN TO THE EXTREME DEGREE WITNESSED AMONG AFRICAN TRIBES WHO PRACTICE CANNIBALISM. It is evident, therefore, that the world of nature is incomplete, imperfect until awakened and illumined by the light and stimulus of education". (The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 309).

"The same is true with respect to animals: notice that when the animal is trained it becomes domestic, and also that man, if he is left without education, becomes bestial, and, moreover, if left under the rule of nature, BECOMES LOWER THAN AN ANIMAL, whereas if he is educated he becomes an angel. FOR THE GREATER NUMBER OF ANIMALS DO NOT DEVOUR THEIR OWN KIND, BUT MEN, IN THE SUDAN, IN THE CENTRAL REGION OF AFRICA, KILL AND EAT EACH OTHER". (Some answered Questions, p. 7). (See Cannibalism-Wikipedia the free Encyclopaedia in the Net). To be continued

Last edited by Request; 01-14-2013 at 04:07 AM.
 
Old 01-14-2013, 03:41 PM   #36
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Conti. FROM THE HOLY QUR'AN:
The following verse of the Qur'an does not say those who do not use their reasons are animals but they are in truth "the vilest of all creatures":
"Verily, the vilest of all creatures in the sight of God are those deaf, those dumb ones who do not use their reason". (The Qur'an, 8:22).

"Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. THEY ARE LIKEV CATTLE, NAY MORE MISGUIDED: for they are heedless (of warning)". (THE qur'an, 7:179).

"Surely the VILEST OF ANIMALS, IN ALLAH'S SIGHT ARE THE DEAF, THE DUMB, WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND'. (The Qur'an, 8:22).

"Surely the VILEST OF ANIMALS IN ALLAH'S SIGHT ARE THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE, then they would not believe". (The Qur'an, 8:55).

The parable of those who reject the signs of God:
"If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. HIS SIMILITUDE IS THAT OF DOG: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect". (THE QUR'AN, 7:176).

"Or do you think that most of them hear or understand? They are ONLY LIKE CATTLE; NAY, THEY ARE EVEN FARTHER ASTRAY FROM THE PATH. (i.e. even worst than cattle). (Qur'an, 25:44).
Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and MADE OF THEM APES AND PIGS AND SLAVES OF TAGHUT. Those are worse in position and FURTHER ASTRAY FROM THE SOUND WAY". (Qur'an, 5:60).

FROM THE HOLY BIBLE:

"Give not "THAT WHICH IS HOLY" unto the "DOGS", neither cast ye your "PEARLS" before "SWINE", lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. (MATTHEW, 7:6). In the above verse of the Gospel, Jesus advises the believers not to waste their time to teach the Faith to the indifferent "IGNORANT PEOPLE" who are "AS PIGS" and to "THE AGGRESSORS" who attack the Faith "AS DOGS".

In order to distinguish truth from error and reveal the absurd claims of the misleading enemies, I will quote just a few from the numerous words of 'Abdu'l-Baha regarding the subject of our discussion, in order that all may be assured that the goal of the Baha'i Faith is THE UNITY OF MANKIND, RECONCILIATION OF NATIONS AND RACES and 'Abdu'l-Baha as its promoter, in His following writings encourages and exhorts the UNITY OF RACES, RACIAL-INTERMARRIAGE, ABANDONING THE RACIAL PREJUDICE etc:

"I hail with a joyous heart the convocation in the heart of the African continent of the first of the four Intercontinental Teaching Conferences constituting the highlights of the world-wide celebrations of the Holy Year which commemorates the hundredth anniversary of the birth of the Mission of the Founder of our Faith. I welcome with open arms the unexpectedly large number of the representatives of the pure-hearted and the spiritually receptive Negro race, so dearly loved by Abdul-Bah, for whose conversion to His Fathers Faith He so deeply yearned and whose interests He so ardently championed in the course of His memorable visit to the North American continent. I am reminded, on this historic occasion, of the significant words uttered by Bahullh Himself, Who as attested by the Center of the Covenant, in His Writings, COMPARED THE COLORED PEOPLE TO THE BLACK PUPIL OF THE EYE," through which THE LIGHT OF THE SPIRIT SHINETH FORTH". (Messages to the Baha'i World, Ps. 135-136).

"O thou who hast an illumined heart! Thou art even as the pupil of the eye, the very wellspring of the light, for Gods love hath cast its rays upon thine inmost being and thou hast turned thy face toward Kingdom d the of thy Lord. INTENSE IS THE HATRED, IN AMERICA, BETWEEN BLACK AND WHITE, BUT MY HOPE IS THAT THE POWER OF THE KINGDOM WILL BIND THESE TWO IN FRIENDSHIP, AND SERVE THEM AS A HEALING BALM. Let them look not upon a mans colour but upon his heart. If the heart be filled with light, that man is nigh unto the threshold of his Lord; but if not, that man is careless of his Lord, be he white or be he black". (Selected from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Baha, p.113). (I have to add that when about fifty years ago I visited US and stayed for a year there for a scientific course, I find the intense hatred between these two races was such that the Baha'i friends were arranging their gatherings for Nineteen Day Feasts at nights in order that the non-Baha'is do not disturb their association. NOW I see the POWER OF THE KINGDOM by the HEALING BALMS of 'Abdu'l-Baha's talks in different parts of that land changed their attitudes in as much as they choose a black background as THEIR PRESIDENT!

"Strive with heart and soul in order to bring about union and harmony among the white and the black and prove thereby the unity of the Bah world wherein distinction of colour findeth no place, but where hearts only are considered. Praise be to God, the hearts of the friends are united and linked together, whether they be from the East or the West, from north or from south, whether they be German, French, Japanese, American, and whether they pertain to the white, the black, the red, the yellow or the brown race. Variations of colour, of land and of race are of no importance in the Bah Faith; on the contrary, Bah unity overcometh them all and doeth away with all these fancies and imaginations".
(Selections From the Writings of Abdul-Bah, p. 112). To be continued

Last edited by Request; 01-14-2013 at 04:01 PM.
 
Old 01-15-2013, 05:28 AM   #37
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. Do realise that this is from an article written by an uncredited Azadeh Haiati who made his own personal translation of the Writings and posted it on a website* dedicated to attempts at misrepresenting (to no avail) the Faith and Baha'is. (*Human Equality in the Bahai Faith - The Bahai Awareness Homepage)
Ah, that explains it. I believe someone in Qum is behind that site.
 
Old 01-15-2013, 03:34 PM   #38
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Conti. "O thou who art pure in heart, sanctified in spirit, peerless in character, beauteous in face! Thy photograph hath been received revealing thy physical frame in the utmost grace and the best appearance. Thou art dark in countenance and bright in character. Thou art like unto the pupil of the eye which is dark in colour, yet it is the fount of light and the revealer of the contingent world.I have not forgotten nor will I forget thee. I beseech God that He may graciously make thee the sign of His bounty amidst mankind, illumine thy face with the light of such blessings as are vouchsafed by the merciful Lord, single thee out for His love in this age which is distinguished among all the past ages and centuries …. ". (Selected from the writings of Abdu'l-baha, P. 114).

" …… Appreciating these limitations on the part of His hearers, ‘Abdu’l-Bah did not hesitate to introduce into His relations with Western believers actions that summoned them to a level of consciousness far above mere social liberalism and tolerance. One example that must stand for A RANGE OF SUCH INTERVENTIONS WAS HIS GENTLE BUT DRAMATIC ACT IN ENCOURAGING THE MARRIAGE OF LOUIS GREGORY AND LOUISE MATHEW--THE ONE BLACK, THE OTHER WHITE. The initiative set a standard for the American Bah’ community as to the real meaning of racial integration, however timid and slow its members were in responding to the core implications of the challenge ……".
(Century of Light, p. 25).

Race Unity
"You have written that there were several meetings of joy and happiness, one for white and another for colored people. Praise be to God! As both races are under the protection of the All-Knowing God, therefore the lamps of unity must be lighted in such a manner in these meetings that no distinction be perceived between the white and colored. Colors are phenomenal, but the realities of men are essence. When there exists unity of the essence what power has the phenomenal? When the light of reality is shining what power has the darkness of the unreal? If it be possible, gather together these two races, black and white, into one Assembly, and put such love into their hearts that they shall not only unite but even intermarry. Be sure that the result of this will abolish differences and disputes between black and. Moreover, by the Will of God, may it be so. This is a great service to humanity". [BAHA'I WORLD FAITH--SELECTED WRITINGS OF BAHA'U'LLAH AND 'ABDU'L-BAHA ('ABDU'L-BAHA AND SECTION NLY), P. 359].

Notes of a conversation with ‘Abdu’l-Bah :
"A COLOURED man from South Africa who was visiting ‘Abdu’l-Bah, said that even now no white people really cared very much for the black man.
‘Abdu’l-Bah replies: Compare the present time and the feeling towards the coloured people now, with the state of feeling two or three hundred years ago, and see how much better it is at present. IN A SHORT TIME THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE COLOURED AND WHITE PEOPLE WILL STILL IMPROVE, AND BY AND BY NO DIFFERENCE WILL BE FELT BETWEEN THEM. White doves and purple doves exist, but both kinds are doves.
BAHA'U'LLAH ONCE COMPARED THE COLOURED PEOPLE TO THE BLACK PUPIL OF THE EYE SURROUNDED BY THE WHITE. In this black pupil you see the reflection of that which is before it, and through it the light of the Spirit shines forth.

In the sight of God colour makes no difference at all, He looks at the hearts of men. That which God desires from men is the heart. A black man with a good character is far superior to a white man with a character that is less good". ( 'Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 68).
" …. God maketh no distinction between the white and the black. If the hearts are pure both are acceptable unto Him. God is no respecter of persons on account of either color or race. All colors are acceptable to Him, be they white, black, or yellow. Inasmuch as all were created in the image of God, we must bring ourselves to realize that all embody divine possibilities. If you go into a garden and find all the flowers alike in form, species and color, the effect is wearisome to the eye. The garden is more beautiful when the flowers are many-colored and different; the variety lends charm and adornment. In a flock of doves some are white, some black, red, blue; yet they make no distinction among themselves. All are doves no matter what the colour….." ( THE PROMULGATION OF UNIVERSAL PEACE, Ps. 111-112). To be continued

Last edited by Request; 01-15-2013 at 03:37 PM.
 
Old 01-15-2013, 04:04 PM   #39
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Conti. ( 10 November 1912 Talk at Home of Mr. and Mrs. Joseph H. Hannen, 1252 Eighth Street, NW, Washington, D. C.).
This is a beautiful assembly. I am very happy that and black are together. This is the cause of my happiness, for you all are the servants of one God and, therefore, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers. In the sight of God there is no distinction between whites and blacks; all are as one. Anyone whose heart is pure is dear to God—whether white or black, red or yellow. Among the animals colors exist. The doves are white, black, red, blue; but notwithstanding this diversity of color they flock together in unity, happiness and fellowship, making no distinction among themselves, for they are all doves. Man is intelligent and thoughtful, endowed with powers of mind. Why, then, should he be influenced by distinction of color or race, since all belong to one human family? There is no sheep which shuns another as if saying, “I am white, and you are black.” They graze together in complete unity, live together in fellowship and happiness. How then can man be limited and influenced by racial colors? The important thing is to realize that all are human, all are one progeny of Adam. Inasmuch as they are all one family, why should they be separated? (THE PROMULGATION OF UNIVERSAL PEACE, Ps. 425-426).

“God,” ‘Abdu’l-Bah Himself declares, “maketh no distinction between the white and the black. If the hearts are pure both are acceptable unto Him. God is no respecter of persons on account of either color or race. All colors are acceptable unto Him, be they white, black, or yellow. Inasmuch as all were created in the image of God, we must bring ourselves to realize that all embody divine possibilities.” “In the estimation of God,” He states, “all men are equal. There is no distinction or preference for any soul, in the realm of His justice and equity.” “God did not make these divisions,” He affirms; “these divisions have had their origin in man himself. Therefore, as they are against the plan and purpose of God they are false and imaginary.” “In the estimation of God,” He again affirms, “there is no distinction of color; all are one in the color and beauty of servitude to Him. Color is not important; the heart is all-important. It mattereth not what the exterior may be if the heart is pure and white within. God doth not behold differences of hue and complexion. He looketh at the hearts. He whose morals and virtues are praiseworthy is preferred in the presence of God; he who is devoted to the Kingdom is most beloved. In the realm of genesis and creation the question of color is of least importance.” “Throughout the animal kingdom,” He explains, “we do not find the creatures separated because of color. They recognize unity of species and oneness of kind. If we do not find color distinction drawn in a kingdom of lower intelligence and reason, how can it be justified among human beings, especially when we know that all have come from the same source and belong to the same household? In origin and intention of creation mankind is one. Distinctions of race and color have arisen afterward.” “Man is endowed with superior reasoning power and the faculty of perception”; He further explains, “he is the manifestation of divine bestowals. Shall racial ideas prevail and obscure the creative purpose of unity in his kingdom?” “One of the important questions,” He significantly remarks, “which affect the unity and the solidarity of mankind is the fellowship and equality of the white and colored races. Between these two races certain points of agreement and points of distinction exist which warrant just and mutual consideration. The points of contact are many…. In this country, the United States of America, patriotism is common to both races; all have equal rights to citizenship, speak one language, receive the blessings of the same civilization, and follow the precepts of the same religion. In fact numerous points of partnership and agreement exist between the two races, whereas the one point of distinction is that of color. Shall this, the least of all distinctions, be allowed to separate you as races and individuals?” “This variety in forms and coloring,” He stresses, “which is manifest in all the kingdoms is according to creative Wisdom and hath a divine purpose.” “The diversity in the human family,” He claims, “should be the cause of love and harmony, as it is in music where many different notes blend together in the making of a perfect chord.” “If you meet,” is His admonition, “those of a different race and color from yourself, do not mistrust them, and withdraw yourself into your shell of conventionality, but rather be glad and show them kindness.” “In the world of being,” He testifies, “the meeting is blessed when the white and colored races meet together with infinite spiritual love and heavenly harmony. When such meetings are established, and the participants associate with each other with perfect love, unity and kindness, the angels of the Kingdom praise them, and the Beauty of Bah’u’llh addresseth them, ‘Blessed are ye! Blessed are ye!’” “When a gathering of these two races is brought about,” He likewise asserts, “that assemblage will become the magnet of the Concourse on high, and the confirmation of the Blessed Beauty will surround it.” “Strive earnestly,” He again exhorts both races, “and put forth your greatest endeavor toward the accomplishment of this fellowship and the cementing of this bond of brotherhood between you. Such an attainment is not possible without will and effort on the part of each; from one, expressions of gratitude and appreciation; from the other, kindliness and recognition of equality. Each one should endeavor to develop and assist the other toward mutual advancement…. Love and unity will be fostered between you, thereby bringing about the oneness of mankind. For the accomplishment of unity between the colored and white will be an assurance of the world’s peace.” “I hope,” He thus addresses members of the white race, “that ye may cause that downtrodden race to become glorious, and to be joined with the white race, to serve the world of man with the utmost sincerity, faithfulness, love, and purity. This opposition, enmity, and prejudice among the white race and the colored cannot be effaced except through faith, assurance, and the teachings of the Blessed Beauty.” “This question of the union of the white and the black is very important,” He warns, “for if it is not realized, erelong great difficulties will arise, and harmful results will follow.” “If this matter remaineth without change,” is yet another warning, “enmity will be increased day by day, and the final result will be hardship and may end in bloodshed.” (The Advent of Divine Justice, Ps. 37-39).

" …… Also with regard to the problem of I NTER-MARRIAGE BETWEEN THE ZOROASTRIAN AND HINDU BAHA'IS, this is a highly delicate and vital question, as important as the problem of the black and white in America.THE FRIENDS SHOULD ALL REALISE THAT RACIAL CONSIDERATIONS DO NOT, IN THE LIGHT OF THE BAHA'I TEACHINGS, CONSTITUTE ANY HINDRANCE TO ANY KIND OF INTERCOURSE BETWEEN THE BELIEVERS. The Hindu and Zoroastrian Baha’is should forget their former and traditional prejudices whether religious, racial or social, and commune together on a common basis of equality, love and devotion to the Cause. While the goal is quite clear yet, wisdom and caution are needed in order to carry this ideal into full practice …..". (Dawn of a New Day, p. 198).
 
Old 01-17-2013, 12:02 PM   #40
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Talks of Abdul-Baha in Europe and America, Abdul-Baha, p. 203
For instance, you see the blacks in Africa who are in fact cows that God has created in the shape of human beings, and then you see the blacks of America, who are smart, civilized and cultured. Visiting schools and assemblies of blacks in Washington, during this trip, and having extensive discussions, they could understand my points like the smart Europeans.[/QUOTE]

ha ha Napkin you make me laugh.

Such nonsense you write, you must be a comedian.

But not to worry my friend the day is swiftly coming when we will know the truth, correct.

ha ha I am still laughing
 
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