SpiritualSeeker

Hello all,

Due to my readings and interest in shia islam, I am a bit confused as to why there would need to be a messenger after the Prophet Muhammad. He seemed to be the perfect example and he seemed to bring the perfect religion for ALL of mankind. He was uniting tribes and races. He spoke that people are not superior to others due to skin color but only through their levels of god consciousness. He came with the book the quran that has never been tampered with and his life has been passed down from his sleep to his waking life, and to his death. I just dont see why we need another mesenger if Muhammad came with such a complete message and his life and religion has been preserved. Are there any bahai explanations to this? Thanks

SpiritualSeeker

Also how come the prophecies are so ambiguous? If God wants us to have guidance why is it so difficult? It seems detailed in islam that the Prophet Muhammad was the final prophet and messenger. From both the Quran and Hadith. How do we accept Bahaullah? I am not looking for a debate but Im looking to perhaps become convinced of bahaullah.

Also could someone link me to some good writings by bahaullah?

arthra

Seeker you wrote:

I just dont see why we need another mesenger if Muhammad came with such a complete message and his life and religion has been preserved. Are there any bahai explanations to this? Thanks

You must decide this issue for yourself.. I am not going to argue here with you or attempt to convert you... It is your personal search and what we Baha'is call the independent investigation of reality or truth that you embark upon and decide for yourself... Read some of the references I've already posted and reach your own conclusions.


- Art

SpiritualSeeker

Im not asking for arguments with me. I just want a clear bahai view and reason. I am very close to bahai faith. To be honest i would love bahai to be the true religion for me because I dont want my father to leave this world and be damned to hell for eternity just because he is christian. But before I convert to the bahai faith i want to be 100000 percent certain.

arthra

Baha'is believe there is one religion of God that has appeared from time to time so all the Prophets and Manifestations of God are one and religion is one and true:

All these holy, divine Manifestations are one. They have served one God, promulgated the same truth, founded the same institutions and reflected the same light. Their appearances have been successive and correlated; each one has announced and extolled the one who was to follow and all laid the foundation of reality. They summoned and invited the people to love and made the human world a mirror of the Word of God. Therefore the divine religions they established have one foundation; their teachings, proofs and evidences are one; in name and form they differ but in reality they agree and are the same. These holy Manifestations have been as the coming of springtime in the world. Although the springtime of this year is designated by another name according to the changing calendar, yet as regards its life and quickening it is the same as the springtime of last year. For each spring is the time of a new creation, the effects, bestowals, perfections and life-giving forces of which are the same as those of the former vernal seasons although the names are many and various.

~ Abdul-Baha Foundations of World Unity, p. 23.

Also we don't accept that anyone is "damned to hell for eternity".. all souls will pass through we believe the worlds of God and will eventually come into His Holy Presence..

If your father loves God and tries to lead a virtuous life he should not fear and neither should you.

As you are aware no doubt:

Verily, whether it be of those who believe, or those who are Jews or Christians or Sabaeans, whosoever believe in God and the last day and act aright, they have their reward at their Lord's hand, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 2 - The Heifer)

SpiritualSeeker

The Bahai faith is so interesting. A lot of it makes sense. I feel a bit drawn to it. I suppose I will keep looking into it. If i can get through my doubts of Prophet Muhammad being last prophet then im sure I will accept Bahai. I will take it slow though. Thanks for the response.

arthra

There's an interesting essay about the term Seal of the Prophets that I would commend to you..

http://bahai-library.com/essays/seal.html

- Art

WTTL

Here's a similar thread, I stumbled on another forum:

Baha'i Library Forum • View topic - WHy a Messenger after Muhammad?

Clex19

First, I would like to quote myself:

"Baha'is believe that there are two kinds of Prophets: Lesser Prophets and Greater Prophets. Someone can be only a Lesser Prophet, only a Greater Prophet, or both. Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah are Greater Prophets which still have existing religions today. More Greater Prophets include Adam and Noah. Muhammad in particular was both a Greater Prophet and Lesser Prophet. However, He was the last of the Lesser Prophets. We believe that that is what is one reason why Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets."

(-Me, Manifestation of God?)

Baha'is additionally believe that each Manifestation is part of a Cycle of Manifestations. The Adamic Cycle is the Cycle that Adam started, hence the name of the cycle. It includes Noah, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (the Bab inaugurated the Baha'i Cycle, which was continued by Baha'u'llah). Thus, Muhammad was the last Manifestation of the Adamic Cycle; He "sealed" it.

Greg Newing

Wow, I guess I'm not the only one using Baha'i forums and Baha'i library forums to discuss....

Both have been pretty good so far XD!

bwb

If God made it TOO easy for people to recognize Baha'u'llah, then all of the bigots and hypocrites of other religions would become Baha'i and it would be very difficult for the Baha'i Faith to succeed.

This is how Baha'u'llah explains why there are some explicit, and some "ambiguous", prophecies:

"It is evident unto thee that the Birds of Heaven and Doves of Eternity speak a twofold language. One language, the outward language, is devoid of allusions, is unconcealed and unveiled; that it may be a guiding lamp and a beaconing light whereby wayfarers may attain the heights of holiness, and seekers may advance into the realm of eternal reunion. Such are the unveiled traditions and the evident verses already mentioned. The other language is veiled and concealed, so that whatever lieth hidden in the heart of the malevolent may be made manifest and their innermost being be disclosed. Thus hath Sadiq, son of Muhammad, spoken: "God verily will test them and sift them." This is the divine standard, this is the Touchstone of God, wherewith He proveth His servants. None apprehendeth the meaning of these utterances except them whose hearts are assured, whose souls have found favour with God, and whose minds are detached from all else but Him. In such utterances, the literal meaning, as generally understood by the people, is not what hath been intended. Thus it is recorded: "Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qá'im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth." He also saith: "We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain."

These things We mention only that the people may not be dismayed because of certain traditions and utterances, which have not yet been literally fulfilled, that they may rather attribute their perplexity to their own lack of understanding, and not to the non-fulfilment of the promises in the traditions..."

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 254)

BruceDLimber

Greetings!

Although the Qur'an contains a verse stating Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets, there are in fact multiple interpretations of this which do not need to imply any sort of finality to Muhammad and His Station:

• First, there is a sense in which EVERY Divine Messenger is the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega, and the Seal!

• There are two different words used in the Qur'an that translate into English as "prophet." One is "nabi," which means a lesser prophet such as Jeremiah or Amos. The other is "Ras'ul," which means a major Divine Messenger such as Jesus, Muhammad, or Baha'u'llah. And the word used here in the Qur'an is "nabi," meaning Muhammad is the Seal of the lesser prophets.

• Muhammad is also the Seal in the sense that He was the last Messenger during the Prophetic Age, which began with Adam and ended with Him. The Bab then closed out that Age and opened the Age of Fulfillment, of which Baha'u'llah is the first major Messenger.

• Finally, there is a sense in which the word commonly translated as "seal" simply means "ornament" as in "Ornament of the Prophets." Nothing about an ending at all!

Best! :-)

Bruce

drhine

Hello!
The questions you pose are very good and deep. I think that the second question regarding the difficulty of interpreting prophecy has been well addressed so I won't go to that question here. I would also point out that the points of view I express are my own and my interpretation is not binding - in fact, I might not agree with myself in the future

The question regarding the need for additional messengers from God, however, has many facets and there is one that I haven't seen presented here already and so would like to put it forward for your consideration.

The Baha'i writings tell us that these Manifestations of God have multiple impacts on human development. In addition to the obvious spiritual impulse they impart, they also increase the capacity of humanity with regards to the sciences, arts, and social interactions (among other things). A look at the history of Islam and the Arabian peninsula clearly shows the effect of the Manifestation of God has on a population. Before His advent the people were extremely cruel and backwards. After accepting His teachings they excelled beyond other peoples. Many scientific discoveries were made regarding astronomy and the earth sciences, mathematical principles discovered (start with '0' and then look at many of the higher math studies), social institutions were raised up including what became libraries and universities. The area was at peace and the people flourished while Christian Europe suffered through the Dark Ages.

Two things occur, however, that necessitate the coming of another Manifestation. The first is that the truth about the teachings becomes distorted and obscured and the second is that there is a need for new teachings to accommodate the increased capacities of humanity. Consider for a moment the number of people who are inciting others to violence and hatred in the name of one or another religion in spite of teachings against the same.

Remember too that the social teachings of Muhammad were given to people in the Arabian Peninsula over 1400 years ago. Society has changed dramatically since then and while these teachings were the basis for the advancement of society then, they don't allow society to advance beyond a certain point. This is not due to any failure of Muhammad or any person. Rather it is due to the limited capacity of humanity of that day. Baha'u'llah came to give us the teachings needed to take humanity from the point that it is now and launch it to the next level - unification of the human family and to point people back to the path that God has intended. In another 850 years or so there will another Manifestation with a new message - not because of any failure of Baha'u'llah but for the same reasons stated above.

Finally, the need for additional Manifestations of God beyond Muhhamad relates back to the Great Covenant that God made with Abraham. God promised to keep giving humanity guidance and humanity promised to accept these Divine Teachers and teachings. God has always kept his promise with regards to this Covenant and that requires new revelations every so often.

Please pardon the length. Keep on asking questions

Mdef

This is uttermost genius.

Peace and Blessings

earthling155

And Baha'u'llah says that Almighty God will keep sending Prophets, every thousand years or so, for as long as humanity exists.

Lunitik

If Islam was intended to be complete and final, why did Muhammad tell of the return of Mahdi and Isis (Jesus) in the year 60? If his true meaning behind saying he was the seal was that he'd be the final prophet of God to come to man, this prophecy doesn't make sense at all. Rather, even Jesus said he was the first and last. This is because each and every manifestation is receptive to the same spirit, and thus it is true. Also, Muhammad simply was the last of the age of prophecy, Bab declared the beginning of the age of fulfillment.

That being said, as for why this might be needed, obviously you aren't looking at the world today, or indeed throughout history since Muhammad. There have always been wars in the area, going back indeed to the very Quran text. People have killed each other consistently in Gods name. Even today, it can be said the War on Terror is actually Christianity vs Islam yet again. I'd say there is a huge reason to make it know without a doubt that these two groups are entirely in agreement with each other in reality. I would say it is quite important to bring these groups together and instill in them that they both equally love the same God. It is very important with the advancement of weaponry that their differences are reconciled... along with reconciling Hindu and Buddhist scriptures, this is the central message of Baha'u'llah.

I hope this is helpful consideration in your decision.

tonyfish58

I like the Hidden Words as a good read for meditation on all the questions we have. The introduction follows with a few selected that I like Kalimát-i-Maknúnih (کلمات مکنونه) or The Hidden Words is a book written in Baghdad around 1857 by Bahá'u'lláh, the founder of the Bahá'í Faith. This work is written partly in Arabic and partly in Persian.

The Hidden Words is written in the form of a collection of short utterances, 71 in Arabic and 82 in Persian, in which Bahá'u'lláh claims to have taken the basic essence of certain spiritual truths and written them in brief form. Bahá'ís are advised by `Abdu'l-Bahá, the son of Bahá'u'lláh to read them every day and every night and to implement its latent wisdom into their daily lives. He also said that The Hidden Words is "a treasury of divine mysteries" and that when one ponders its contents, "the doors of the mysteries will open."


O SON OF MAN!
The light hath shone on thee from the horizon of the sacred Mount and the spirit of enlightenment hath breathed in the Sinai of thy heart. Wherefore, free thyself from the veils of idle fancies and enter into My court, that thou mayest be fit for everlasting life and worthy to meet Me. Thus may death not come upon thee, neither weariness nor trouble.

O SON OF MAN!
My majesty is My gift to thee, and My grandeur the token of My mercy unto thee. That which beseemeth Me none shall understand, nor can any one recount. Verily, I have preserved it in My hidden storehouses and in the treasuries of My command, as a sign of My loving-kindness unto My servants and My mercy unto My people.

O CHILDREN OF MEN!
Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory.

O SON OF MAN!
Write all that We have revealed unto thee with the ink of light upon the tablet of thy spirit. Should this not be in thy power, then make thine ink of the essence of thy heart. If this thou canst not do, then write with that crimson ink that hath been shed in My path. Sweeter indeed is this to Me than all else, that its light may endure for ever.

O SON OF DUST!
Blind thine eyes, that thou mayest behold My beauty; stop thine ears, that thou mayest hearken unto the sweet melody of My voice; empty thyself of all learning, that thou mayest partake of My knowledge; and sanctify thyself from riches, that thou mayest obtain a lasting share from the ocean of My eternal wealth. Blind thine eyes, that is, to all save My beauty; stop thine ears to all save My word; empty thyself of all learning save the knowledge of Me; that with a clear vision, a pure heart and an attentive ear thou mayest enter the court of My holiness.

O YE DWELLERS IN THE HIGHEST PARADISE!
Proclaim unto the children of assurance that within the realms of holiness, nigh unto the celestial paradise, a new garden hath appeared, round which circle the denizens of the realm on high and the immortal dwellers of the exalted paradise. Strive, then, that ye may attain that station, that ye may unravel the mysteries of love from its wind-flowers and learn the secret of divine and consummate wisdom from its eternal fruits. Solaced are the eyes of them that enter and abide therein!

LordOfGoblins

Because God willed the time right for another manifestation to bring man to maturity. Obviously they are all perfect not just Muhammad.
In any case nothing lasts forever in this world not religion and everything with a beginging has an end. All the previous revelations live on though in the new revelation succeeding them.