Abdul-Baha on Buddhism

arthra · 10-07-2007, 09:11 PM

Abdul-Baha recounts a teaching of Buddha to HIs disciples that is not widely known...Read the bold print below:

Buddhism

Some referred to the teaching of Buddha. Abdu'l-Bahá said: The real teaching of Buddha is the same as the teaching of Jesus Christ. The teachings of all the Prophets are the same in character. Now men have changed the teaching. If you look at the present practice of the Buddhist religion, you will see that there is little of the Reality left. Many worship idols although their teaching forbids it.

Buddha had disciples and he wished to send them out into the world to teach, so he asked them questions to see if they were prepared as he would have them be. "When you go to the East and to the West," said the Buddha, "and the people shut their doors to you and refuse to speak to you, what will you do?" -- The disciples answered and said: "We shall be very thankful that they do us no harm." -- "Then if they do you harm and mock, what will you do?" -- "We shall be very thankful that they do not give us worse treatment." -- "If they throw you into prison?" -- "We shall still be grateful that they do 64 not kill us." -- "What if they were to kill you?" the Master asked for the last time. "Still," answered the disciples, "we will be thankful, for they cause us to be martyrs. What more glorious fate is there than this, to die for the glory of God?" And the Buddha said: "Well done!"

The teaching of Buddha was like a young and beautiful child, and now it has become as an old and decrepit man. Like the aged man it cannot see, it cannot hear, it cannot remember anything. Why go so far back? Consider the laws of the Old Testament: the Jews do not follow Moses as their example nor keep his commands. So it is with many other religions.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 63)

Sean H · 10-10-2007, 02:52 PM

Indeed, I really enjoyed that quote. It kind of displays the attitude needed by all apostles of a Manifestation.

Are there any more such references? I've heard of those ones. I looked through the Kitab-i-Iqan, but noticed that Buddha was not mentioned specifically or at least by name.

arthra · 10-11-2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean H

Indeed, I really enjoyed that quote. It kind of displays the attitude needed by all apostles of a Manifestation.

Are there any more such references? I've heard of those ones. I looked through the Kitab-i-Iqan, but noticed that Buddha was not mentioned specifically or at least by name.

Hello Sean and welcome to the Forum!

Read in Gleanings p. 174

Mention hath been made in certain books of a deluge which caused all that existed on earth, historical records as well as other things, to be destroyed. Moreover, many cataclysms have occurred which have effaced the traces of many events. Furthermore, among existing historical records differences are to be found, and each of the various peoples of the world hath its own account of the age of the earth and of its history. Some trace their history as far back as eight thousand years, others as far as twelve thousand years. To any one that hath read the book of Jük it is clear and evident how much the accounts given by the various books have differed.

The "book of Jük"" has been suggested by some to be a reference to Yoga and Marzieh Gail believed it referred to the Dabistanu'l - Madhahib a treatise composed in India about the middle of the 17th century..." this is from her "Baha'i Glossary". So this could be an indirect reference...

Also, Baha'u'llah refers to Hermetic writings in the Lawh i Hikmat:

In one of His Tablets Bahá’u’lláh wrote: ‘The first person who devoted himself to philosophy was Ídrís. Thus was he named. Some called him also Hermes. In every tongue he hath a special name. He it is who hath set forth in every branch of philosophy thorough and convincing statements. After him Bálinus derived his knowledge and sciences from the Hermetic Tablets and most of the philosophers who followed him made their philosophical and scientific discoveries from his words and statements…’. In the Qur’án, Súrá 19, verses 57 and 58, is written: ‘And commemorate Ídrís in the Book; for he was a man of truth, a Prophet; And we uplifted him to a place on high.’

The Hermetic Tablets refer to the corpus of Hermetic writings which while not Buddhism are an interesting philosophical body of writings from Egypt.

- Art

arthra · 10-17-2007, 08:10 PM

"Buddha also established a new religion, and Confucius renewed morals and ancient virtues, but their institutions have been entirely destroyed. The beliefs and rites of the Buddhists and Confucianists have not continued in accordance with their fundamental teachings. The founder of Buddhism was a wonderful soul. He established the Oneness of God, but later the original principles of His doctrines gradually disappeared, and ignorant customs and ceremonials arose and increased until they finally ended in the worship of statues and images."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 165)

arthra · 11-01-2007, 08:10 AM

Buddhism is acknowledged in the Baha'i writings as one of the great world religions and its founder, the Buddha, is accorded a rank and station equal to that of all of the founders of the great world religions.

The relationship between the Baha'i Faith and Buddhism can be described in terms of a sharing of religious concepts and of encounters between individuals and communities. The student of the Baha'i Faith and Buddhism is at first struck by the scarcity of Baha'i expositions on Buddhist themes. In contrast to Christian and Muslim themes which are taken up and elaborated in detail by the founder himself, the Baha'i writings do not deal explicitly with the complex philosophical arguments which concern many Buddhists. Moreover, there are no surviving documents by the Bab or Baha'u'llah referring directly to Buddhism.

There are, however, a number of statements in the Baha'i scriptures and authoritative Baha'i texts about Buddhism and the Buddha. `Abdu'l-Baha describes the Buddha as "the cause of the illumination of the world of humanity" (CoC1 43:15) and as the establisher of "a new religion" (CoC1 46:16). Shoghi Effendi clearly places the Buddha in the same rank and station as the founders of the other world religions (CoC1 54-56:19-20, 60:21, 63:22). A warning is sounded however that the Buddhist texts that have come down to us do not necessarily represent the exact words or teachings of the Buddha (CoC1 46:16, 48:17, 60:21, 64:22). This perception is also to be found in the Buddhist scriptures themselves, as there are several statements to the effect that the true dharma (dhamma) preached by the Buddha would gradually disappear from the world (Anagatavamsa, tr. in Warren 482ff and Conze 47-50).

To read more

See

http://bahai-library.com/encyclopedia/buddhism.html

ocean_drop · 12-01-2007, 11:16 PM

This is fascinating, and I would add that the Theravada teachings of the Pali canon are regarded by scholars as more 'authentic' than the later Mahayana and Vajrayana texts, i.e. more original. With the latter two traditions, devotion to myriad buddhas and bodhisattvas was advocated. Yet, in the Theravada teachings Buddha not only tells people not to worship the Hindu Gods, but that even he was a humble messenger! In my opinion this is similar to Christianity: Jesus the Christ told mankind to worship the Father. Yet later, the Trinity of Philo Judaeus, which was a legitimate metaphor, was perverted and imposed by force; making Jesus the Christ coeternal, consubstantial and in every way equal with the Father.

arthra · 12-15-2007, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the comment ocean drop and I'm pleased you were able to find the thread inthe forest of commercial posts here on the forum!

I have something to add as well that is important and that confirms i believe what Abdul-Baha was commenting about above..namely that idols were not a part of the earliest forms of Buddhism.

See the following:

Aniconic phase (5th century - 1st century BCE)

During the 2nd to 1st century BCE, sculptures became more explicit, representing episodes of the Buddha’s life and teachings. These took the form of votive tablets or friezes, usually in relation to the decoration of stupas. Although India had a long sculptural tradition and a mastery of rich iconography, the Buddha was never represented in human form, but only through some of his symbols.

This reluctance towards anthropomorphic representations of the Buddha, and the sophisticated development of aniconic symbols to avoid it (even in narrative scene where other human figures would appear), seems to be connected to 70 of the Buddha’s sayings, reported in the Dighanikaya, that disfavored representations of himself after the extinction of his body. This tendency remained as late as the 2nd century CE in the southern parts of India, in the art of the Amaravati school (see: Mara's assault on the Buddha). It has been argued that earlier anthropomorphic representations of the Buddha may have been made of wood and may have perished since then. However, no related archaeological evidence has been found.

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_art

arthra · 01-17-2008, 06:25 PM

I found another reference to the Buddha by Abdul-Baha in Tablets vol.2:

Buddha and Confucius were kings in bygone ages who have disappeared.

Their sovereignty in this world is ended and their cycle is completed.

Now the Throne of the Kingdom of ABHA is established and the Blessed Perfection is sitting upon the Throne of Grandeur. We must raise this Call, promulgate the Word of God and live in accord with the teachings and advices of the Beauty of ABHA.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v2, p. 469)

Kanuz · 01-23-2008, 11:46 AM

Thich Nhat Hahn is an amazing man. What are some Bahai thoughts/feelings about nonviolence?

nonviolence is an essential aspect of Buddhist thought and action.

arthra · 01-26-2008, 08:29 AM

If we study the life of Baha'u'llah we know that His family had a degree of rank and privilege and that He later renounced it all for calling He received. This is similar to the life of Siddartha.

Baha'u'llah moreover warned Ali Pasha that "the lowliest and most abject of all things holdeth sway over thee and that is none other than self and passion, which have ever been reprehensible."

Similar to the teaching of the Buddha to King Ajatasattu.

Baha'u'llah said that this world should be regarded as the black in the eye of a dead ant.

So that the renunciation of this world was very much like that in the Buddha's teaching, although monkhood was not provided for in Baha'u'llah's teaching.

After viewing a skillfull play of puppets as a youth, Baha'u'llah said "Ever since that day all the trappings of this world have seemed in the eyes of this Youth akin to that same spectacle. They have never been, nor will they ever be, of any weight and consequence, be it to the extent of a grain of mustard seed."

So in many ways the wheel turned by the Enlightened One still turns in the dispensation of Baha'u'llah.

- Art

10-07-2007, 09:11 PM	#1
arthra Senior Member Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 733 From: California	Abdul-Baha on Buddhism Abdul-Baha recounts a teaching of Buddha to HIs disciples that is not widely known...Read the bold print below: Buddhism Some referred to the teaching of Buddha. Abdu'l-Bahá said: The real teaching of Buddha is the same as the teaching of Jesus Christ. The teachings of all the Prophets are the same in character. Now men have changed the teaching. If you look at the present practice of the Buddhist religion, you will see that there is little of the Reality left. Many worship idols although their teaching forbids it. Buddha had disciples and he wished to send them out into the world to teach, so he asked them questions to see if they were prepared as he would have them be. "When you go to the East and to the West," said the Buddha, "and the people shut their doors to you and refuse to speak to you, what will you do?" -- The disciples answered and said: "We shall be very thankful that they do us no harm." -- "Then if they do you harm and mock, what will you do?" -- "We shall be very thankful that they do not give us worse treatment." -- "If they throw you into prison?" -- "We shall still be grateful that they do 64 not kill us." -- "What if they were to kill you?" the Master asked for the last time. "Still," answered the disciples, "we will be thankful, for they cause us to be martyrs. What more glorious fate is there than this, to die for the glory of God?" And the Buddha said: "Well done!" The teaching of Buddha was like a young and beautiful child, and now it has become as an old and decrepit man. Like the aged man it cannot see, it cannot hear, it cannot remember anything. Why go so far back? Consider the laws of the Old Testament: the Jews do not follow Moses as their example nor keep his commands. So it is with many other religions. (Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 63) __________________ Follow Baha'i Forums on Twitter and Facebook

10-10-2007, 02:52 PM	#2
Sean H Junior Member Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 2 From: Mississippi	Indeed, I really enjoyed that quote. It kind of displays the attitude needed by all apostles of a Manifestation. Are there any more such references? I've heard of those ones. I looked through the Kitab-i-Iqan, but noticed that Buddha was not mentioned specifically or at least by name. __________________ Follow Baha'i Forums on Twitter and Facebook

10-17-2007, 08:10 PM	#4
arthra Senior Member Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 733 From: California	"Buddha also established a new religion, and Confucius renewed morals and ancient virtues, but their institutions have been entirely destroyed. The beliefs and rites of the Buddhists and Confucianists have not continued in accordance with their fundamental teachings. The founder of Buddhism was a wonderful soul. He established the Oneness of God, but later the original principles of His doctrines gradually disappeared, and ignorant customs and ceremonials arose and increased until they finally ended in the worship of statues and images." (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 165) __________________ Follow Baha'i Forums on Twitter and Facebook

11-01-2007, 08:10 AM	#5
arthra Senior Member Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 733 From: California	More on Buddhism and the Baha'i Faith Buddhism is acknowledged in the Baha'i writings as one of the great world religions and its founder, the Buddha, is accorded a rank and station equal to that of all of the founders of the great world religions. The relationship between the Baha'i Faith and Buddhism can be described in terms of a sharing of religious concepts and of encounters between individuals and communities. The student of the Baha'i Faith and Buddhism is at first struck by the scarcity of Baha'i expositions on Buddhist themes. In contrast to Christian and Muslim themes which are taken up and elaborated in detail by the founder himself, the Baha'i writings do not deal explicitly with the complex philosophical arguments which concern many Buddhists. Moreover, there are no surviving documents by the Bab or Baha'u'llah referring directly to Buddhism. There are, however, a number of statements in the Baha'i scriptures and authoritative Baha'i texts about Buddhism and the Buddha. `Abdu'l-Baha describes the Buddha as "the cause of the illumination of the world of humanity" (CoC1 43:15) and as the establisher of "a new religion" (CoC1 46:16). Shoghi Effendi clearly places the Buddha in the same rank and station as the founders of the other world religions (CoC1 54-56:19-20, 60:21, 63:22). A warning is sounded however that the Buddhist texts that have come down to us do not necessarily represent the exact words or teachings of the Buddha (CoC1 46:16, 48:17, 60:21, 64:22). This perception is also to be found in the Buddhist scriptures themselves, as there are several statements to the effect that the true dharma (dhamma) preached by the Buddha would gradually disappear from the world (Anagatavamsa, tr. in Warren 482ff and Conze 47-50). To read more See http://bahai-library.com/encyclopedia/buddhism.html __________________ Follow Baha'i Forums on Twitter and Facebook

12-01-2007, 11:16 PM	#6
ocean_drop ocean-drop Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 4 From: Northern Ireland.	This is fascinating, and I would add that the Theravada teachings of the Pali canon are regarded by scholars as more 'authentic' than the later Mahayana and Vajrayana texts, i.e. more original. With the latter two traditions, devotion to myriad buddhas and bodhisattvas was advocated. Yet, in the Theravada teachings Buddha not only tells people not to worship the Hindu Gods, but that even he was a humble messenger! In my opinion this is similar to Christianity: Jesus the Christ told mankind to worship the Father. Yet later, the Trinity of Philo Judaeus, which was a legitimate metaphor, was perverted and imposed by force; making Jesus the Christ coeternal, consubstantial and in every way equal with the Father. __________________ Follow Baha'i Forums on Twitter and Facebook

12-15-2007, 04:25 PM	#7
arthra Senior Member Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 733 From: California	Thanks for the comment ocean drop and I'm pleased you were able to find the thread inthe forest of commercial posts here on the forum! I have something to add as well that is important and that confirms i believe what Abdul-Baha was commenting about above..namely that idols were not a part of the earliest forms of Buddhism. See the following: Aniconic phase (5th century - 1st century BCE) During the 2nd to 1st century BCE, sculptures became more explicit, representing episodes of the Buddha’s life and teachings. These took the form of votive tablets or friezes, usually in relation to the decoration of stupas. Although India had a long sculptural tradition and a mastery of rich iconography, the Buddha was never represented in human form, but only through some of his symbols. This reluctance towards anthropomorphic representations of the Buddha, and the sophisticated development of aniconic symbols to avoid it (even in narrative scene where other human figures would appear), seems to be connected to 70 of the Buddha’s sayings, reported in the Dighanikaya, that disfavored representations of himself after the extinction of his body. This tendency remained as late as the 2nd century CE in the southern parts of India, in the art of the Amaravati school (see: Mara's assault on the Buddha). It has been argued that earlier anthropomorphic representations of the Buddha may have been made of wood and may have perished since then. However, no related archaeological evidence has been found. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_art __________________ Follow Baha'i Forums on Twitter and Facebook

01-17-2008, 06:25 PM	#8
arthra Senior Member Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 733 From: California	Their sovereignty is ended and their cycle completed: I found another reference to the Buddha by Abdul-Baha in Tablets vol.2: Buddha and Confucius were kings in bygone ages who have disappeared. Their sovereignty in this world is ended and their cycle is completed. Now the Throne of the Kingdom of ABHA is established and the Blessed Perfection is sitting upon the Throne of Grandeur. We must raise this Call, promulgate the Word of God and live in accord with the teachings and advices of the Beauty of ABHA. (Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v2, p. 469) __________________ Follow Baha'i Forums on Twitter and Facebook

01-23-2008, 11:46 AM	#9
Kanuz Junior Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1 From: Indiana	Thich Nhat Hahn is an amazing man. What are some Bahai thoughts/feelings about nonviolence? nonviolence is an essential aspect of Buddhist thought and action. __________________ Follow Baha'i Forums on Twitter and Facebook

01-26-2008, 08:29 AM	#10
arthra Senior Member Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 733 From: California	Comparisons between Buddha and Baha'u'llah: If we study the life of Baha'u'llah we know that His family had a degree of rank and privilege and that He later renounced it all for calling He received. This is similar to the life of Siddartha. Baha'u'llah moreover warned Ali Pasha that "the lowliest and most abject of all things holdeth sway over thee and that is none other than self and passion, which have ever been reprehensible." Similar to the teaching of the Buddha to King Ajatasattu. Baha'u'llah said that this world should be regarded as the black in the eye of a dead ant. So that the renunciation of this world was very much like that in the Buddha's teaching, although monkhood was not provided for in Baha'u'llah's teaching. After viewing a skillfull play of puppets as a youth, Baha'u'llah said "Ever since that day all the trappings of this world have seemed in the eyes of this Youth akin to that same spectacle. They have never been, nor will they ever be, of any weight and consequence, be it to the extent of a grain of mustard seed." So in many ways the wheel turned by the Enlightened One still turns in the dispensation of Baha'u'llah. - Art __________________ Follow Baha'i Forums on Twitter and Facebook

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode