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Old 01-07-2016, 07:14 AM   #1
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Education

Baha's are taught that if one has two children a girl and a boy, and little money for education, one should educate the female child.

Now I have never heard of any religion teaching this concept.

Upon studying the Ismaili religion I was surprised to find out this is their teaching also.
I would be interested in others comments on this teaching.

bill
 
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:11 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Baha's are taught that if one has two children a girl and a boy, and little money for education, one should educate the female child.
Hello Bill,

Without hesitation.....Yes.

As you know, a mother is a child's first teacher. Mine taught me to read before ever I attended school; gifting to me a love of books and of learning.

Not for nothing is the mother three times more important to the child than its father (hadith).

Educate the girl.......she'll educate her brother (given half a chance!)

Very best regards.

Paul
 
Old 01-07-2016, 11:42 AM   #3
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But how many in Islam believe this? Look at how many girls in the middle east are attacked, even killed to stop them seeking an education.

bill
 
Old 01-07-2016, 12:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
But how many in Islam believe this? Look at how many girls in the middle east are attacked, even killed to stop them seeking an education.

bill
Agreed. Culture maybe. My daughter (in-law)'s aunt and mum are current and former teachers; and there are several female teachers (not sure how many) in my grandchildren's school. The vast majority of Muslims, of course, are not from the Middle East. Having said that, I must admit I have no data on this matter......it's not discussed in any of the books I have. Perhaps that tells a story...or perhaps I'm Iooking in the wrong books

Take care.

Paul
 
Old 01-07-2016, 12:41 PM   #5
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Hi Bill.

Taken from Financial Times article...published early 2015:

'The first convert to Islam was a businesswoman. She was a wealthy trader who inherited her father’s business and later expanded it into an even more impressive enterprise. At one point, she offered a job to a man. He accepted and conducted a trading mission from Mecca to Syria under the tutelage of his female boss.

'Her name was Khadija. He was the Prophet Muhammad, and the two later married. Khadija’s personal loyalty to the Prophet and her financial independence were essential pillars of support in the early days spreading the message of Islam.

'These facts highlight the unusual economic independence of the woman Muhammad married – and his approval of her sovereign existence. This history is often missing from the narrative within and about Islam– one of many reasons why women have not been a significant economic force in the Muslim world. But this is rapidly changing.

''Today’s Muslim world is comprised of 1.6bn people. That is nearly a quarter of the global population, and they contribute about 16 per cent of global gross domestic product, growing at 6 per cent annually. It includes rich petro-states at the cusp of dramatic change such as Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar, as well as members of what Goldman Sachs calls the “Next 11”: Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia and Iran.

'Half of these people – 800m – are women. There is an untold, unfolding story hidden in their classrooms, in their careers, and in their purses. In just a generation or two, a widespread education movement has elevated the prospects of millions of women in these countries, from Tehran to Tunis.

'Most governments in the region, especially those that possess oil wealth, have made massive investments in education over recent decades – rapidly closing primary and secondary education gender gaps from abysmally large starting points only 40 years ago.

'The shift has also come in higher education. In Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Algeria, Oman, Jordan, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia, university enrolment rates for women exceed those for men.

'These accelerations are massive, underreported and current. In Egypt, 10 years ago there were three women for every four men in university. Today those numbers are nearly equal. In resource-rich countries the figures are dramatic. In the UAE, women enrol in university at three times the rate of men. In Saudi Arabia, the university enrolment rates for women are higher than those in China, Mexico or Brazil.

'What does all this mean? As female education becomes rooted and normalised, the next wave of change has come: women are now going to work. The past 10 years have triggered an exponential change that will one day be the stuff of history books. Nearly 40m more Muslim women are in the labour force than just a decade ago.

'Millions of ordinary women and men have made conscious, and often deeply personal and brave decisions to break tradition, sometimes shunning cultural pressures. These myriad individual decisions will add up to a new segment of the labour market – and an unprecedented consumer power.

'A movement has started where economics trumps culture. Changes that took half a century in the US are being compressed into a decade in today’s Muslim world, where they are set to continue at a significantly faster pace. Imagine if the US, in just a few years, had transformed from the 1950s era of The Feminine Mystique to Lean Inin the 2010s. That is the magnitude of the change sweeping the Muslim world.

'This is an extract from the entry that won theFT/McKinsey Bracken Bower Prize for a business book proposal. The author is a World Economic Forum senior director.'

Better late than never, I guess

P.

Last edited by Niblo; 01-07-2016 at 12:45 PM.
 
Old 01-07-2016, 10:16 PM   #6
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I had been a Muslim for 24 years and I had never read this teaching in Quran; maybe it is said somewhere in Hadiths but I am sure it had not been exercised in time of Mohammad or the rest of Imams in Arabia. yes, Islam revived the respect women had to receive. on those days many Arabs used to bury their baby girls alive and Quran said that it is a sin, an unforgivable sin. but I have never read anything about education (as I said maybe only somewhere in Hadiths). so I say BAha'i is the first religion which has given clear importance to this matter and has talked about it in sacred scripture. anyway, all religions are from one Source and to accept that religions have a progressive course, it becomes clear why Bahai is the first religion that has directly stated the importance of educating the girls over educating boys (in case of lack of money for both)
 
Old 01-08-2016, 12:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Niblo View Post
Hi Bill.

Taken from Financial Times article...published early 2015:

'The first convert to Islam was a businesswoman. She was a wealthy trader who inherited her father’s business and later expanded it into an even more impressive enterprise. At one point, she offered a job to a man. He accepted and conducted a trading mission from Mecca to Syria under the tutelage of his female boss.

'Her name was Khadija. He was the Prophet Muhammad, and the two later married. Khadija’s personal loyalty to the Prophet and her financial independence were essential pillars of support in the early days spreading the message of Islam.

'These facts highlight the unusual economic independence of the woman Muhammad married – and his approval of her sovereign existence. This history is often missing from the narrative within and about Islam– one of many reasons why women have not been a significant economic force in the Muslim world. But this is rapidly changing.

''Today’s Muslim world is comprised of 1.6bn people. That is nearly a quarter of the global population, and they contribute about 16 per cent of global gross domestic product, growing at 6 per cent annually. It includes rich petro-states at the cusp of dramatic change such as Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar, as well as members of what Goldman Sachs calls the “Next 11”: Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia and Iran.

'Half of these people – 800m – are women. There is an untold, unfolding story hidden in their classrooms, in their careers, and in their purses. In just a generation or two, a widespread education movement has elevated the prospects of millions of women in these countries, from Tehran to Tunis.

'Most governments in the region, especially those that possess oil wealth, have made massive investments in education over recent decades – rapidly closing primary and secondary education gender gaps from abysmally large starting points only 40 years ago.

'The shift has also come in higher education. In Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Algeria, Oman, Jordan, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia, university enrolment rates for women exceed those for men.

'These accelerations are massive, underreported and current. In Egypt, 10 years ago there were three women for every four men in university. Today those numbers are nearly equal. In resource-rich countries the figures are dramatic. In the UAE, women enrol in university at three times the rate of men. In Saudi Arabia, the university enrolment rates for women are higher than those in China, Mexico or Brazil.

'What does all this mean? As female education becomes rooted and normalised, the next wave of change has come: women are now going to work. The past 10 years have triggered an exponential change that will one day be the stuff of history books. Nearly 40m more Muslim women are in the labour force than just a decade ago.

'Millions of ordinary women and men have made conscious, and often deeply personal and brave decisions to break tradition, sometimes shunning cultural pressures. These myriad individual decisions will add up to a new segment of the labour market – and an unprecedented consumer power.

'A movement has started where economics trumps culture. Changes that took half a century in the US are being compressed into a decade in today’s Muslim world, where they are set to continue at a significantly faster pace. Imagine if the US, in just a few years, had transformed from the 1950s era of The Feminine Mystique to Lean Inin the 2010s. That is the magnitude of the change sweeping the Muslim world.

'This is an extract from the entry that won theFT/McKinsey Bracken Bower Prize for a business book proposal. The author is a World Economic Forum senior director.'

Better late than never, I guess

P.
Dear friend you are talking to the converted, I know the history of Khadija and Muhammad very well. But in the Quran I do not remember it being Written as a direction that female children be prioritized in education. One could say that Muslim women are gaining an education in countries with more liberal ideas than in the past, similar to dress, many woman in Muslim countries are held back from the rights. As you say cultural practices. Sadly the name of Islam has been dragged down to the depths, as one of the hadiths state.
Love and peace to you.
bill
 
Old 01-08-2016, 12:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
I had been a Muslim for 24 years and I had never read this teaching in Quran; maybe it is said somewhere in Hadiths but I am sure it had not been exercised in time of Mohammad or the rest of Imams in Arabia. yes, Islam revived the respect women had to receive. on those days many Arabs used to bury their baby girls alive and Quran said that it is a sin, an unforgivable sin. but I have never read anything about education (as I said maybe only somewhere in Hadiths). so I say BAha'i is the first religion which has given clear importance to this matter and has talked about it in sacred scripture. anyway, all religions are from one Source and to accept that religions have a progressive course, it becomes clear why Bahai is the first religion that has directly stated the importance of educating the girls over educating boys (in case of lack of money for both)
Yes dear sister this is also my understanding so to hear an Ismaili person quoting exactly what Baha'is believe astonished me.

bill
 
Old 01-09-2016, 12:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Yes dear sister this is also my understanding so to hear an Ismaili person quoting exactly what Baha'is believe astonished me.

bill
True
Islamic society of those days, specially Arabia, had not been even ready for such a direct teaching about giving the girls priority in education. in a society that had used to bury baby girls alive, that to have a baby girl had been a sign of shame and lost for the father of the family how could Mohammad (PUH) come and say that girls must have priority in education?! ... Mohammad, brought back the honor to the feminine society; by kissing the hands of his own daughter in front of others and by banishing the exercise of burying girls but never a direct mentioning. if any Muslim bring me one sentence in Quran which talks DIRECTLY and CLEARLY (as it is in Baha'i teachings) about the matter, I'll be really astonished. the society of those days had not been ready for this teaching and religions must be progressive
 
Old 01-09-2016, 06:00 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
True
Islamic society of those days, specially Arabia, had not been even ready for such a direct teaching about giving the girls priority in education. in a society that had used to bury baby girls alive, that to have a baby girl had been a sign of shame and lost for the father of the family how could Mohammad (PUH) come and say that girls must have priority in education?! ... Mohammad, brought back the honor to the feminine society; by kissing the hands of his own daughter in front of others and by banishing the exercise of burying girls but never a direct mentioning. if any Muslim bring me one sentence in Quran which talks DIRECTLY and CLEARLY (as it is in Baha'i teachings) about the matter, I'll be really astonished. the society of those days had not been ready for this teaching and religions must be progressive
Hi Maryamr

I trust you are well and happy.

In fairness to the Almighty, you’ll not find any reference in the Qur’an concerning the education of boys either.

The Qur’an places great importance on the acquisition of knowledge; and this has been at the core of the Islamic world from its very beginning. Here are some women, from the time of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) to the 9th century, who are recognised as scholars of Islam:

Ā’ishah bint Abī Bakr; Umm al Darda as Sughra al Dimashqiyyah (a jurist as well as a scholar); Al-Shifa bint Abdullah; Ḥafsa bint Umar; Rābiʻa al-ʻAdawiyya al-Qaysiyya; Fāțima bint Ibrahim ibn Mahmūd al-Bațā'ihiyya; Sayyida Nafisa bint Hasan; Fakhr-un-Nisa Shuhdah Umm Muhammad al-Baghdadiyyah (a scholar and specialist in the aHadith); and Fatima Muhammad Al-Fihri Al-Quraysh, who founded the Qarawiyyin mosque and madrasa in Fes (859 CE). The madrasa is still active, and is known as the University of al-Qarawiyyin (said by UNESO to be the oldest continually active, and the first degree-awarding institution, in the world).

You will agree, I imagine, that none of these women could have achieved their status without benefit of effective education; and that none were educated by the Baha’i.

Must dash……stuff to do.

Have a great weekend, and very best regards.

Paul
 
Old 01-09-2016, 07:12 AM   #11
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Hi Paul
hope you are fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niblo View Post
In fairness to the Almighty, you’ll not find any reference in the Qur’an concerning the education of boys either...
yes, you are 100% true; that is what I was trying to say; thank you for saying it in a clear way so Baha'i is the first religion of God which has talked about education of boys and girls and has given the girls priority
but in fact to see this religion is first and that is second, is not pleasing to me. all teachings from God are very necessary and helpful; they are very important for the time they had been given in. God always knows the best what things are needed at each period of time. I love all religions.
 
Old 01-10-2016, 10:30 AM   #12
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Well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
Hi Paul
hope you are fine



yes, you are 100% true; that is what I was trying to say; thank you for saying it in a clear way so Baha'i is the first religion of God which has talked about education of boys and girls and has given the girls priority
but in fact to see this religion is first and that is second, is not pleasing to me. all teachings from God are very necessary and helpful; they are very important for the time they had been given in. God always knows the best what things are needed at each period of time. I love all religions.
Very well said dear sister.
bill
 
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