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Old 07-15-2017, 12:20 PM   #1
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Do you have a questions?

Do you have a questions?
I answer to them

https://nazarethanbahaifaith.wordpre.../?preview=true

All are welcome
 
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:47 PM   #2
Kam
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Joined: Jun 2015
From: Perth, Australia
Posts: 159
What is this Babism?

Has this website been approved by the Universal House of Justice?

If not, why does your website imply you have formed your own sect?

Kam
 
Old 07-16-2017, 10:46 PM   #3
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Joined: Apr 2013
From: Dorset, England
Posts: 127
Dear Kam

I have cordial contact with Polish bahais, they recognize me the both baha'i and Christian, Muslim, Sikh and Jew, so this is new pathway in baha'i, I don't want to fight with Universal House of Justice, I'm baha'i from 6 year, and in reality I'm interpreted the Baha'i scriptures in Bible, especially Torah way, so I support the Bahá'ís from UHJ but I'm not part of it

Another Polish and international branch support me :
Some rabbis Hasidic Jews of Poland recognize me as "liberal" Jew

I'm just preacher, reformer and first believer, I don't exalt myself I'm only messager of God

Babism is just nickname

Regards Paweł

Last edited by Babism; 07-16-2017 at 11:06 PM.
 
Old 07-27-2017, 02:58 AM   #4
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So, what exactly do you consider to be your role in this "sect"?

And how do you reconcile setting up your own community and elaborating your own teachings with the concept of the Covenant?

And - this would be the the greatest interest of mine - what exactly are your teachings? I have read some of them in a handful of threads but it seemed that you were only saying that your teachings would conform to every other teaching others were asking for. So is there a list of concrete teachings?

Last edited by SoerenRekelBludau; 07-27-2017 at 03:01 AM.
 
Old 07-27-2017, 05:38 AM   #5
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Joined: Apr 2013
From: Dorset, England
Posts: 127
Nazarethan Baha'i faith

Dear

Distinguished from baha'i

Mysticism
1. Useless of 95 repetition in one day
2. Not worship angels
3. Harmful of occultism
4. Beauty of day of awaking (Resurrection)
5. Human never become God
7. God never become man
8. Deaths don't comprehend nothing after death
9. Miracles come from God
10. Miracles come from Iblis
11. Harmful of Thelepaty, occultism, table writing, worship deaths and pray to angels
12. Harmful of yoga, third eye and Kundalini
13. Harmful of alchemy
14. Death as liberty
15. Death as abomination

Teaching
16. Drinking alcohol isn't alcoholism, personal choice
17. Useless of prostration five times a day or more
18. Useless of pilgrimage or haj
19. Awaiting for next manifestation since thousand year is strange
20. Cursing of polygamy
21. Reality of hell
22. Pioneering and great preaching
21. Banned of huququllah, zakat, tithes
22. Don't worship prophets, manifestation of God, reformers
23. Deep meaning of life

Believes are literal
24. Believes in angels
25. Believe in literal Resurrection
26. Believe in day of destiny (judgment day)
27. Believe in annihilation of devil and hell in Lake of fire
28. Believe God the Father as only Savior and messiah
29. How worship shabbat not like Jews
30. Love not shun covenant breakers, UHJ Baha'is
31. Needless of Institution like UHJ, abolish of hierarchy
32. Holiness of body, ash and holy cremation
33. Flood had been global
34. Falling of Adam
35. Henoch had taken to heaven
36. Mixed ap languages at babel and cease to worship idols
37. Earthquake ander walls of Iericho
38. Miracles of Moses no science and science explanation
39. Passing red sea by powers of nature - God used earthquake
40. Elijah miracles
41. Jonah swallow by whale
42. Daniels companion at owen
43. Daniels miracles
44. Jesus is God subordinate to Father, Jesus claim divinity at New Testament
45. Parable about Richman in hell
46. Transfiguration of Jesus into the celestial body on the mountain
47. Beauty of simple miracles of Jesus
48. Jesus as messiah son of David, rejected by Jews second Joseph
49. Krishna subordinate to Father Brahma
50. Buddha subordinate to Father of Nirvana
51. Nobody isn't equal to God. Jesus, Krishna and Buddha had been only creatures
52. John 1:1 Jesus as Holy Spirit
53. Abreviation of baha'i feast
54. Don't observe Baha'i, Islam, Christian birthday of manifestation of God

Mysticism
55. Mistakes of Abdu'l Baha and Shoghi Effendi
Lack of faith in unseeing world
56. Nbf four great festivals
19 day fast
Ayyám-i-Há
Naw Ruz
19th day feast
57. Got in sermons to 19th day feast
58 Dajjal will come from Shia Islam
59 Iran is enemy of God
60. Nbf Administration
Council of twelve
Democratic votes

Last edited by Babism; 07-27-2017 at 05:42 AM.
 
Old 07-27-2017, 05:53 AM   #6
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Posts: 127
what exactly do you consider to be your role in this "sect"?
My role is not important, worth of worship is only God, not man

Teaching about Baha’u'llah
1. He is second return of Jesus, Kalki Avatar, Maitreya, imam mahdi etc.
2. He is messiah

Another teachings about Baha’u'llah
3. He is reformer (seer) not prophet
4. He made mistakes like each other reformers (seers) - Jesus, Muhammad, Martin Luther, Guru Nanak, Báb, Baha’u'llah, Mirza Gulam Ahmad
5. Prophets was only at Old Testament
6. Prophets exist also today but theirs teaching should be equal with teachings of Old Testament

Important believe
7. Third temple rebuild is necessary to spread global peace

Eschatology
Shia imam mahdi will be Dajjal
1. Claim to be God
2. Followers are fanatic Jews and shia Muslims
3. Fight with children of God - sunni Muslims, bahais, simple Jews and Christians
4. Want to kill children of God
5. Dajjal will make 7th years deal with Catholic false prophet (Pope)
6. He want to destroy Israel and third temple (children of God)
7. Dajjal will be destroy by God in end time

Last edited by Babism; 07-27-2017 at 08:20 AM.
 
Old 07-27-2017, 07:26 AM   #7
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Thank you!

I have to admit that there are some points where "popular belief" within the Bahá'í community doesn't conform to the teachings - which is legitimate to criticize. Some others come for nothing because the Bahá'í teachings are fully accordant with them. And some others are clearly not in accordance with the teachings of the Faith - which is ok as everyone is entitled to his or her own interpretation of the Writings - but it seems that the Bahá'í Writings are not the bedrock of your teachings, are they? So let me explain how I see things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
1. Useless of 95 repetition in one day
The Writings make it clear that every form of meditation or prayer was ordained solely for the purpose of our well-being and growth. So if you deem the recitation of the Greatest Name a means to grow, then it will help you with it. Of you don't, it is indeed useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
2. Not worship angels
I have never met any Bahá'í worshipping Angels. I met way more Christians doing such - whether of a catholic or esoteric kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
3. Harmful of occultism
Occultism is forbidden in the Writings. 'Abdu'l-Bahá made this clear and Shoghi Effendi affirmed this principle several times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
4. Beauty of day of awaking (Resurrection)
I don't understand this one - as it is completely contextless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
5. Human never become God
Bahá'u'lláh made this crystal clear in His Kitáb-i-Íqán. The Manifestation is merely a mirrow of God but not God Himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
7. God never become man
Where's #6? Same as above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
8. Deaths don't comprehend nothing after death
I don't understand this one. Could you please explain it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
9. Miracles come from God
Sure. Why should the Bahá'ís believe otherwise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
10. Miracles come from Iblis
As Iblis is associated with some prehistoric revelation I could agree with that, but I think you identify Iblis with Satan instead. Correct? I don't believe in demons and devils as evil counterparts of God. This would limit God's omnipotence. So there is no way that miracles could stem from evil forces. Man alone can - departed from God - be an evil force in this world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
11. Harmful of Thelepaty, occultism, table writing, worship deaths and pray to angels
Shoghi Effendi himself set up and emphatically supported the ban on occultism and occultist practices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
12. Harmful of yoga, third eye and Kundalini
Yoga is only a means to meditate. In this connection the Universal House of Justice said that it may be used by the friends but not be associated with the Faith as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
13. Harmful of alchemy
Alchemy cannot do any harm as it is pseudo-science and cannot and will never work out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
14. Death as liberty
Death is indeed liberty from all worldly afflictions. But life in this world is still necessary to gain the spiritual maturity to enter the heavenly realm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
15. Death as abomination
By this do you mean that there was a time when men didn't die at all and that death was implemented by God as punishment for original sin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
16. Drinking alcohol isn't alcoholism, personal choice
Of course drinking alcohol and alcoholism are two very different animals. Of course everyone has to make his or her own choices. But alcohol is still explicitly forbidden in the Writings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
17. Useless of prostration five times a day or more
I've never hear of Bahá'ís prostrating five times a day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
18. Useless of pilgrimage or haj
Again, pilgrimage is for your own inner development and confirmation. It has no outward effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
19. Awaiting for next manifestation since thousand year is strange
Why should God send another manifestation that early when mankind could not even grasp a ray of the magnitude of the message of Bahá'u'lláh? Why should He abrogate a revelation still not fully understood - and many Writings still unpublished? This makes no sense IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
20. Cursing of polygamy
'Abdu'l-Bahá clearly said that Polygamy is forbidden in the Cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
21. Reality of hell
Of course hell is real. Do I believe that it is a place "down under" where sinners are tortured with fire and brimstone? No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
22. Pioneering and great preaching
Again, some statement out of context. Would you please explain what you meant by this one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
21. Banned of huququllah, zakat, tithes
Who banned those? And why? Shouldn't the blessed show solidarity with those less fortunate? Should the poor starve? My personal understanding of charity is mainly inspired by the Letter of James in the New Testament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
22. Don't worship prophets, manifestation of God, reformers
I don't worship Bahá'u'lláh. But I am thankful to Him. I thank Him for bringing about a new message of hope ordained by God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
23. Deep meaning of life
No context, again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
24. Believes in angels
I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
25. Believe in literal Resurrection
I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
26. Believe in day of destiny (judgment day)
I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
27. Believe in annihilation of devil and hell in Lake of fire
I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
28. Believe God the Father as only Savior and messiah
As all messengers come from God and do His will, I can agree with that. The Prophets are only God's means to act in this realm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
29. How worship shabbat not like Jews
I don't understand this one. Should we or whould we not hold the Sabbath?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
30. Love not shun covenant breakers, UHJ Baha'is
I personally think that the concept of Covenant Breaking is a little bit outdated because nowadays the Faith is linked to the Institution of the Universal House of Justice which is elected every five years. In former times there could occur uncertainties because of successorship. The House of Justice has no successor. So either you accept the Administration as it is or you are not a member of the Bahá'í Community. So it is ours to love everyone who leaves the community or does not declare at all. They are entitled to their own judgment while investigating truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
31. Needless of Institution like UHJ, abolish of hierarchy
The Universal House of Justice was ordained by Bahá'u'lláh Himself in His Kitáb-i-Aqdas. So it cannot be that needless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
32. Holiness of body, ash and holy cremation
Do you mean that human bodies should be cremated instead of burying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
33. Flood had been global
There is no scientific evidence for a worldwide flood. On the other hand there are stories about floods in almost every culture around the globe. So maybe there will be evidence in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
34. Falling of Adam
We don't believe in original sin or perfect man. Man was created to attain perfection, not to loose and regain it. Why should God allow for such an outcome?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
35. Henoch had taken to heaven
I know of no statement within the Bahá'í Writings about this topic. So it is up to every believer to interpret this story for himself or herself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
36. Mixed ap languages at babel and cease to worship idols
Bahá'u'lláh said that there was indeed a time when all mankind spoke the same language and mentions Babel in this context. But I don't understand the part with ceasing to worship idols. What do you want to say?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
37. Earthquake ander walls of Iericho
Maybe. We cannot know, as we have neither historic nor scriptural evidence for any modern theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
38. Miracles of Moses no science and science explanation
So what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
39. Passing red sea by powers of nature - God used earthquake
So you claim that there was nothing scientific in the crossing of the Red Sea and now you claim that God used the laws of nature to allow that crossing. Where do science and your statement contradict?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
40. Elijah miracles
Please explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
41. Jonah swallow by whale
Nowhere in the Bible there is any evidence to the idea that it was a whale who swallowed Jonah. It is called kétos in Greek and means something like monster, not any special animal. The whale is popular belief but not supported by the Bible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
42. Daniels companion at owen
Please explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
43. Daniels miracles
Please explain.

[QUOTE=Babism;77656]44. Jesus is God subordinate to Father, Jesus claim divinity at New Testament

Now you contradict yourself. Earlier you declared that no man could be like God. But sure, these are two statements the Bahá'í teachings are in full agreement with.

[QUOTE=Babism;77656]45. Parable about Richman in hell

What do you want to say? Please explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
46. Transfiguration of Jesus into the celestial body on the mountain
'Abdu'l-Bahá spoke about this event and interpreted it as a situation where Christ's glory was fully revealed before the disciples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
47. Beauty of simple miracles of Jesus
I don't understand that one. Could you please elaborate on this one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
48. Jesus as messiah son of David, rejected by Jews second Joseph
Sure. But the connection to Joseph is something I've never heard of before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
49. Krishna subordinate to Father Brahma
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
50. Buddha subordinate to Father of Nirvana
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
51. Nobody isn't equal to God. Jesus, Krishna and Buddha had been only creatures
Of course they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
52. John 1:1 Jesus as Holy Spirit
Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá clearly affirmed this - but the Holy Spirit does not at all appear in John 1:1. It is the Word of God (lógos) whom Christ is identified with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
53. Abreviation of baha'i feast
What do you mean here? What do you want to shorten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
54. Don't observe Baha'i, Islam, Christian birthday of manifestation of God
Bahá'u'lláh Himself ordained celebration of His birthday and the one of the Báb, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
55. Mistakes of Abdu'l Baha and Shoghi Effendi
Lack of faith in unseeing world
What are the mistakes you think 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi made? Yould you please give some examples?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
56. Nbf four great festivals
19 day fast
Ayyám-i-Há
Naw Ruz
19th day feast
So you neither celebrate Ridván nor the Declaration of the Báb? Neither the Passing of Bahá'u'lláh nor the Martyrdom of the Báb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
57. Got in sermons to 19th day feast
I don't understand this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
58 Dajjal will come from Shia Islam
There is no text that indicates such a connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
59 Iran is enemy of God
I will never curse a whole country and it's entire population, no matter how badly our friends suffer from the current regime. The people of Iran are innocent of this crimes. The country itself cannot do any possible harm to our brethren. It is the regime we fear. We try to get by without hate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
60. Nbf Administration
Council of twelve
Democratic votes
The votes by the Spiritual Assemblies or the House of Justice are democratic.
 
Old 07-27-2017, 07:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
1. He is second return of Jesus, Kalki Avatar, Maitreya, imam mahdi etc.
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
2. He is messiah
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
3. He is reformer (seer) not prophet
I don't agree with that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
4. He made mistakes like each other reformers (seers) - Jesus, Muhammad, Martin Luther, Guru Nanak, Báb, Baha’u'llah, Mirza Gulam Ahmad
Do you have any example to share? Where did He make mistakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
5. Prophets was only at Old Testament
So Jeremiah would have had more authority than Jesus or Bahá'u'lláh? In this case the law of Moses would still be valid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
6. Prophets exist also today but theirs teaching should be equal with teachings of Old Testament
So you don't believe in Progressive Revelation? I personally deem it the very essence of Bahá'í theology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
7. Third temple rebuild is necessary to spread global peace
Bahá'u'lláh identified Himself with the newly erected temple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Shia imam mahdi is Dajjal
So the Báb would be your Antichrist. According to Bahá'í belief He is the Imam Mahdi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Followers are fanatic Jews and shia Muslims
Why on earth should the Jews and Shiis be more vulnerable to his teachings than Christians and Sunnis? Why should the Sunnis stand abreast the Bahá'ís?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Dajjal will make 7th years deal with Catholic false prophet (Pope)
Why should the Pope make any deal when the end is come?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
He want to destroy Israel and third temple (children of God)
Why is Israel so important here? He will destroy the whole world. Isn't that sad enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Dajjal will be destroy by God in end time
So you believe in an untimate end of human history?
 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:26 AM   #9
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From: Dorset, England
Posts: 127
"So the Báb would be your Antichrist. According to Bahá'í belief He is the Imam Mahdi."
No, Shia imam mahdi Will be /is ( after great Revelation of bahaism) Dajjal. Báb was Saint and mahdi in symbolical meaning

So you see alone that nazarethan Baha'i faith and Bahaism are no compatible
Everything what pertain to nazarethan Baha'i faith eschatology will be fulfill, and will be take place nearly

Last edited by Babism; 07-27-2017 at 08:59 AM.
 
Old 07-27-2017, 09:17 AM   #10
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Joined: Apr 2013
From: Dorset, England
Posts: 127
Number 36

36. Mixed ap languages at babel and cease to worship idols

W skróci można to ująć tak:
1. W wierzy Babel składano cześć fałszywym Bogom czyli demonom
2. Ofiary które były składane były i są znienawidzone przez Boga Yahweh
Te ofiary składano z ludzi, dzieci i zwierząt
Ci ludzie składali je w obawie przed potopem, zapomnieli też o Bogu Yahweh
Bóg zatem pomieszał ich języki i rozproszył po ziemi by nie czynili takich okrucieństw

https://nazarethanbahaifaith.wordpre.../?preview=true
 
Old 07-27-2017, 09:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Do you have a questions?
I answer to them
You most certainly do not in my experience. You've never answered any of my questions to you.

I still have the email where I asked three questions and you just told me to read the bible in response, and quoted a bible verse that addressed none of my questions.

But, hey, let's take a shot in the dark and see if you'll actually answer me for once.

You've asked this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
I ask simple question for that people who don't believe in physical Satan, who invented the germs for example - who created viruses?
You go on to state you believe the Devil created Viruses. Because God would not, in your words, create something that harms humans.

If what you say is true, why would God give the Devil the power to create viruses?? Isn't giving Satan the ability to create viruses JUST AS BAD as God creating viruses himself??

And if God would not create viruses because they hurt humans, why would God create Satan?? The literal existence of Satan would plague mankind worse than viruses.

Thus, I say, if the God you believe in created Satan but did not create viruses, I would say your idea of God is far more evil than mine, who created viruses but did not create Satan.

How do you account for your God creating something worse than viruses, if your theology cannot even handle God creating viruses without falling into a moral conundrum??

I understand what you believe and why you believe it... but I don't understand how any of your mental gymnastics actually solves any of the problems you are trying to avoid.

Last edited by Walrus; 07-27-2017 at 09:24 AM.
 
Old 07-27-2017, 09:35 AM   #12
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Joined: Apr 2013
From: Dorset, England
Posts: 127
Answer to soern

23. Deep meaning of life

Człowiek szuka odpowiedzi na sens życia, tylko dzięki midlitwom i pomocy Boga może on dowiedzieć się na czym polega plan Boga wobec człowieka
Bóg posiada dwie armię :
Jedną aniołów którzy na rozkaz Boga chronią tych którzy go kochają i mu służą
Druga armia to wojsko ludzi którzy w przyszłości zastąpią hordy upadłych aniołów
Bóg nie stworzył zła lecz dał aniołom wolną wolę, Iblis więc zbuntował się i była to jego świadoma decyzja
Od tąd świat zniszczony jest przez niszczyciela, okrutnika i pierwszego mordercę - Iblisa
Może ci się wydawać że opowiadam bajki
Bóg posiada szersze pole widzenia od człowieka, Bóg i jego święci aniołowie widzą to co niewidzialne, zatem jak my upadli ludzie możemy porównywać się do Boga i Jego myśli? Bóg pragnie zjednoczyć się z nami po naszym przyszłym dosłownym zmartwywstaniu ciała, pragnie on nie tylko duchowej jedności ale również zdrowia naszych ciał, Bóg jest wstanie przywrócić do życia nieskończone ilości ludzi, Bóg jest tym który przygarnia swoje dzieci, radować się będzie naszą obecnością w wieczności
Paweł Szul
(please translate from Polish to English if you are interested)

https://nazarethanbahaifaith.wordpre.../?preview=true
 
Old 07-27-2017, 09:40 AM   #13
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Joined: Apr 2013
From: Dorset, England
Posts: 127
Walrus, listen
"How do you account for your God creating*something worse*than viruses, if your theology cannot even handle God creating viruses without falling into a moral conundrum??"

Satan is response for evil and exist of viruses, crop circles etc. If you don't believe me you cheat yourself, but is your wish not mine
 
Old 07-27-2017, 09:53 AM   #14
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Joined: Apr 2013
From: Dorset, England
Posts: 127
Answer to soern, nr 22

22. Pioneering and great preaching
Again, some statement out of context. Would you please explain what you meant by this one?

W skrócie
Wyznawca Może wybrać dwa rodzaje "Pioneering"
Great pioneering
Dotyczy to działalności charytatywnej - rozdawanie jedzenie biedakom, bezdomnym. Opiekowanie się starszymi, dziećmi i chorymi, wspieranie dzieci i ich edukacja

Pioneering
Dotyczy wszelkich form głoszenia Jedności Boga, czy to na ulicy, znajomym lub rodzinie

(if you are interested, translate from Polish to English)
If you like bemock me let you be mock

https://nazarethanbahaifaith.wordpre.../?preview=true
 
Old 07-27-2017, 10:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Dear Kam

I have cordial contact with Polish bahais, they recognize me the both baha'i and Christian, Muslim, Sikh and Jew, so this is new pathway in baha'i, I don't want to fight with Universal House of Justice, I'm baha'i from 6 year, and in reality I'm interpreted the Baha'i scriptures in Bible, especially Torah way, so I support the Bahá'ís from UHJ but I'm not part of it

Another Polish and international branch support me :
Some rabbis Hasidic Jews of Poland recognize me as "liberal" Jew

I'm just preacher, reformer and first believer, I don't exalt myself I'm only messager of God

Babism is just nickname

Regards Paweł
I think, Pawel, you are too attached to the words and labels of religion.

You want to call yourself a Christian, a Sikh, a Jew, a Baha'i, etc., yet what you believe doesn't actually match perfectly any of those labels. So what you try to do is pick labels that almost fit, and combine them together in order to try to figure out what to truly call yourself. "Nazarethan Baha'i".

I was the same way once too, with a set of beliefs that fit truly nowhere and, like you, I attempted to combine labels that almost worked into a label I could apply for myself: "Christian Taoist."

In a way, this makes sense. Humans are controlled by our animalistic nature to be Tribalistic. This draws us to notions of group psychology and group identity. Thus, whatever it is we believe, we as human beings, want a label for ourselves.

For those out there who's beliefs neatly fit into a larger group, this matter is easy, and they can just take the common label of that group. But for those with heterodox beliefs, like yourself and myself in the past, we instead flail around, trying to desperately combine labels in an attempt to find something, anything, to call ourselves. Because our human psychology has us believing that the most important part of an identity is the label.

Though, have you considered that maybe the name for what you believe isn't all that important?? Why do you feel attachment for all of these labels?? Isn't it enough to simply believe what you believe??

My desire to find a label changed when I read the Quran. The Second Surah records an incident where the Christians were trying to convince Muhammad's followers to adopt the label of Christian, and the Jews were trying to convince Muhammad's followers to adopt the label of Jew.

Muhammad, radically, rejected both labels. Indeed, he rejected the idea of labels itself for his beliefs. He told his followers to simply say "I submit to God" when they were asked what religious label they adopted. Because, truly, what is more important?? The fact we follow God or the name we choose to attach to that act??

However, ironically, because of human nature being so attached to labels, that this statement "submit to God"/"Muslim" has morphed into a label in-and-of-itself. And so with Baha'u'llah we have been given a new thing to call ourselves "Baha'i", which translates to "follower of God". And, again, it is sadly now seen as more of a label than a statement.

But regardless of how history seems to have ignored the prophets' wisdom and has adopted these terms as labels anyways, I still think this is an important teaching.

No two people's beliefs agree on everything. So now I wonder, years after I struggled with trying to find the perfect label, or combination of labels, why worry about all these labels?? Should every single person with a differing belief identify as their own Sect-Of-One??

I've interacted with countless Baha'is with beliefs that diverge from the norm. One who believes in Joseph Smith and his prophecies. One who believes in Emmanuel Swedenborg. One who believes in the White Buffalo Woman as a Manifestation of God. Should each person become their own personal sect with its own unique label??

I believe Baha'u'llah was a prophet. I believe Lao Tzu was a prophet. Would you say I should, because my views diverge from the norm, adopt a whole new label for myself?? Should I be some sort of "Dragon Gate Baha'i"?? Or a "Babi Taoist"?? Maybe describe my religion as the "Tao of Baha"??

Or should, maybe, I just leave it at one statement:

I'm a "follower of God".

Because isn't that fact more important than any label??
 
Old 07-27-2017, 10:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Walrus, listen
"How do you account for your God creating*something worse*than viruses, if your theology cannot even handle God creating viruses without falling into a moral conundrum??"

Satan is response for evil and exist of viruses, crop circles etc. If you don't believe me you cheat yourself, but is your wish not mine
Again you are ignoring my question (not surprising, lol ), so I'll put it simply:

Who created Satan??
 
Old 07-27-2017, 10:21 AM   #17
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Satan before falling had been seraphim and he was created by God sinless, he became Satan by own will, he created evil (yourself)
 
Old 07-27-2017, 10:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Satan before falling had been seraphim and he was created by God sinless, he became Satan by own will, he created evil (yourself)
So then:

Why did God allow Satan to create viruses?? And everything else you think is evil?? Why would God give Satan the ability to mass-torment the whole of creation?? How does that viewpoint make sense??
 
Old 07-27-2017, 09:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
So then:

Why did God allow Satan to create viruses?? And everything else you think is evil?? Why would God give Satan the ability to mass-torment the whole of creation?? How does that viewpoint make sense??
God gave Satan free will, God shows another worlds and angels how evil is destructive, that is lesson for all universe where lives unfallen beings and angels, for this time holy angels never will be rebel against God and Satan will be destroy and evil to, will be occure eternity without any sins, evil and calamities
 
Old 07-28-2017, 08:39 AM   #20
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God gave Satan free will,
Okay, then I have a whole host of other questions on how that doesn't make sense to me.

Let's start simply: Why is Satan able to create viruses?? Because I can think of only two reasons this should work.

There are more seraphim than Satan, this is known, so either these angels must have the same god-given powers that Satan has, and simply choose not to overpower and stop Satan from tormenting us, or Satan must be more powerful than every single other angel in existence, combined.

For what you are saying is true to be true, then either the other angels out there are not holy as they do nothing to stop Satan.

Or Satan is the most powerful being in the universe apart from God. Because the combined efforts of every single good soul in the universe cannot stop him from creating viruses and natural disasters.

So which of these two is it?? Are the angels simply unwilling to save humans, or is Satan the most powerful being (apart from God) that has ever existed??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
God shows another worlds and angels how evil is destructive, that is lesson for all universe where lives unfallen beings and angels, for this time holy angels never will be rebel against God and Satan will be destroy and evil to, will be occure eternity without any sins, evil and calamities
I have more to ask about the rest of this post, but you seem to have trouble answering more than one question at a time from me, so I will keep it to one question for a post. All I will ask here is whether the angels are apathetic or Satan more powerful than everyone else, to keep things simple.
 
Old 07-30-2017, 10:06 PM   #21
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Visited Facebook group
https://m.facebook.com/groups/112285...?ref=bookmarks
 
Old 08-02-2017, 09:22 AM   #22
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Answer in English for soern

https://m.facebook.com/groups/112285...&ref=bookmarks

Last edited by Babism; 08-02-2017 at 09:47 AM.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 06:18 AM   #23
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I cannot follow facebook links from my device because. So I'm not sure if you are answering my question in another place or just ignoring it as you typically do.

But on your blog I noticed something: You cited the Bukhari. I personally am not fond of that book.

So I ask you, why do you place trust in such a book, written by a man who lived long after the Prophet, when the book itself makes the absurd claim that eating dates makes you immune from all poisons?? Truly I cannot understand how people can place so much truth in that book, especially in how slanderous it is towards Muhammad.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 11:13 PM   #24
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D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
I cannot follow facebook links from my device because. So I'm not sure if you are answering my question in another place or just ignoring it as you typically do.

But on your blog I noticed something: You cited the Bukhari. I personally am not fond of that book.

So I ask you, why do you place trust in such a book, written by a man who lived long after the Prophet, when the book itself makes the absurd claim that eating dates makes you immune from all poisons?? Truly I cannot understand how people can place so much truth in that book, especially in how slanderous it is towards Muhammad.
Some words of Bukhari come from God and some doctrines he made up
 
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