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Old 02-12-2018, 01:55 AM   #1
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Nazarethan Baha'i early literature

The earliest book of nazarethan/nazarite baha'i - title "Words of I am that I am" from 2010

"I am that I am" is name of God in Bible

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1122...7876205962861/

I'm not reject Baha'u'llah , why bahais think i preach falsehood ?
Paweł Sz.
 
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:35 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
I'm not reject Baha'u'llah , why bahais think i preach falsehood ?Paweł Sz.
Pawl there is only One Baha'i Faith and a Covenant that protects it so it will remain as, One undivided Faith.

I will say no more but to wish you always well.

Regards Tony
 
Old 02-12-2018, 06:28 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
The earliest book of nazarethan/nazarite baha'i - title "Words of I am that I am" from 2010

"I am that I am" is name of God in Bible

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1122...7876205962861/

I'm not reject Baha'u'llah , why bahais think i preach falsehood ?
Paweł Sz.
I am just wondering why you are posting a link to a Facebook group. Does Facebook allow group owners to see who views their posts?

Ah, this is what Facebook's Help Center says:


"Can I see who's seen each post or message in a group I admin?

If your group has fewer than 250 people, messages and posts will be marked as Seen after they're read. If your group reaches 250 members or more, you’ll no longer see who’s seen messages and posts.

For messages or posts that have been seen:

A check will appear next to each post to indicate how many group members have seen it.
Hover over the check to find out who's seen it.
Anyone who can view the group post will see the check.

Keep in mind that if people see a group post or message, it doesn't always mean they had the chance to read it carefully."

Last edited by ahanu; 02-12-2018 at 06:39 AM.
 
Old 02-12-2018, 11:18 AM   #4
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I know your policy is to ignore my questions. Nevertheless, I have a few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
2) Why you shouldn’t repeat name of God 95 times a day and why you should avoid mantras, rosary prayers?
*God doesn’t hearing mantras
Why do you think a meditative chant is for God's benefit?? Meditative chants are for the benefit of the chanter, not God. Try meditation yourself and you shall see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
7) Nazarite Bahaism preach that Satan exist but he hasn’t any impact to sinning of sinners so truth is saying “evil come from us” (Gleanings).
At first I thought this means your ideas on Satan had changed for the better, but then you continue with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
What Satan doing for world and why he is invisible?
*God exist, we know about it, but why Satan has hidden all the time?
*Satan as fallen angel
*Satan is maker of:
– disasters
– poverty
– irrational hate of God
– homosexual acts
– prayer to death called necromancy
– devil invented famines and disease
– devil made occultism and magic
– devil teached severe immorality (sacrifice of human, abortion, prostitution, slavery)
– devil desire to people pray to dead items like praying to pictures and piece of stone , devil treats it as medium
– devil preach that hell don’t exist
– worship man as Jesus, Mary or Bahá’u’lláh , animals and angels as Michael or Gabriel
– devil hates sacrifice of Jesus for our sins

8) What Satan is not able to do?
Devil isn’t able to tempt people, make them possessed by “devil spirits” or he didn’t know all future
Devil was created as angel and his end will be eternal death
This doesn't seem to make any sense. You say the devil "hasn’t any impact", but he causes all natural disasters??

You say the "Devil isn’t able to tempt people" and yet he is the cause of all "homosexual acts"??

If he can't tempt people, how is he responsible for that?? If he has no impact, how can he do any of what you say he does??

I do not understand at all what you are proposing or why you propose it to be true, care to explain??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
NBF have a friendly issue to UHJ but UHJ never recognize NBF as denomination of bahaism but heresy
Finally: that's a lie. Of course the UHJ has not recognized NBF (which is just you, even if you choose to call yourself a religion to obfuscate that fact) as a "denomination", but the UHJ has also not recognized you as "heresy", as you claim.

It has not recognized you as anything, be honest.
 
Old 02-12-2018, 11:44 AM   #5
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Satan exist

I remind that Satan is not "god" but fallen angel , and he has limited power by God , he hasn't doing so much evil because still exist good people on this earth and they are like "angels in heaven"

This doesn't seem to make any sense. You say the devil "hasn’t any impact", but he causes all natural disasters??

You say the "Devil isn’t able to tempt people" and yet he is the cause of all "homosexual acts"??

If he can't tempt people, how is he responsible for that?? If he has no impact, how can he do any of what you say he does??

I do not understand at all what you are proposing or why you propose it to be true, care to explain??


Response is simple for your question
* We are responsible for our sining NOT Satan , because all humankind had fallen one time in Garden of Eden , so everybody are now tempted don't by Satan by own unclean mind
*Satan exist like God exist , the both are not visible , if God exist , so God is resposible for all calamites , do you think merciful God is cruel ? Somebody else , evils spirit are responsible for all kinds of invention as - murder , or witchcraft , sorcery and mesmerism , praying to "other gods" ,angels , human beings and animal (they are all creatures NOT God)
*We have free will so Satan had choosen own destructive way
*Satan will be judge and destroy , he is example for rest of ages , goodly angel that rebellion against God is damaging and needless caused of suffering
 
Old 02-12-2018, 11:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
Finally: that's a lie. Of course the UHJ has not recognized NBF (which is just you, even if you choose to call yourself a religion to obfuscate that fact) as a "denomination", but the UHJ has also not recognized you as "heresy", as you claim.
How even should the Universal House of Justice recognize a "denomination"? There is only one Faith and one Community. There are no denominations which is the main dividing line between the Bahá'í Faith and the religions of the past. We should never let it happen than something breaks up this fundament.
 
Old 02-13-2018, 07:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Response is simple for your question
* We are responsible for our sining NOT Satan , because all humankind had fallen one time in Garden of Eden , so everybody are now tempted don't by Satan by own unclean mind
Okay, so I agree with that. But how is it that Satan is responsible for "homosexual acts" and "[teaching] severe immorality" if he has no power to tempt?? Wouldn't he only be able to do such things as you say through temptation??
 
Old 02-13-2018, 12:16 PM   #8
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I can't wait until that book that shows your errors is completed, so that you may see your own untruths and better yourself

On the topic of mantras, I noticed Walrus mentioned it. It's for the one using the mantra in order to center themselves in God's love. Do you truly think the all-knowing... doesn't know you're chanting a mantra in his name? A mantra like Allah-u-Abha, "God is the most glorious". The fact that you are not willing to put the effort to say the words does not mean the words are false.

Baha'i's say you preach falsely for a very good reason. You accept the person of Baha'u'llah but reject his teachings. Your entire operation spits in the face of what he taught.

Examples are the symbolism of Satan opposed to a literal Satan, the mantra of Allah-u-Abha (God is the most glorious), and the unity of the Baha'i faith. In trying (Failing) to create a denomination of Baha'i's, you are creation disunion and ruining the unity that Baha'u'llah spoke of.

Then, what baffles me is how you think religions are 'right and wrong' like its so black and white, when in reality they form a continuous message that has taught us more and more through history. This very fact alone is enough to make anyone see that you are not in Baha'u'llah's graces even if you claim to accept him.

You accept him superficially, outward in appearance only. He is not in your heart, nor is he present in your words. You have hurt the progress of your soul, because you choose to preach things that are incorrect, and twist things to fit your own ideas instead of seeing how your ideas fit in the bigger picture. I seriously hope that you recognize your falsehoods, come down off your high horse, and come to the graces of Baha'u'llah one day.

I'm sorry this was so harsh, but I follow your little blog all the time, hoping to see you improve and find the right path once again, but as usual you fall deeper and deeper into the arms of demons.
 
Old 02-13-2018, 01:00 PM   #9
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I follow your little blog all the time
Oh you too?? Yeah, I keep up with Pawel's blog as well. As Seven Valleys teaches, you can find wisdom even in unlikely places. I think some of his works have accidentally disproven the idea of a literal devil, even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saveyist View Post
Baha'i's say you preach falsely for a very good reason. You accept the person of Baha'u'llah but reject his teachings. Your entire operation spits in the face of what he taught.
Eh, careful. I'd advise against taking too harsh a tone against Pawel. You've read his blog, so I take it you might already realize that he seems to want negative feedback, because in his eyes that validates his message due to the misapplied concept of the "rejection of the prophets".

I think we should adopt a positive embrace of Pawel. Treat him as just a Baha'i. An extreme example of "unity in diversity", perhaps, but a Baha'i none-the-less. Treating him as a Baha'i, and not a "Nazarethan", seems to me like it might be the best approach, since I think at some level he wants us to view him as some sort of heretic.
 
Old 02-13-2018, 03:09 PM   #10
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I think we should adopt a positive embrace of Pawel. Treat him as just a Baha'i. An extreme example of "unity in diversity", perhaps, but a Baha'i none-the-less. Treating him as a Baha'i, and not a "Nazarethan", seems to me like it might be the best approach, since I think at some level he wants us to view him as some sort of heretic.
Well, given the large number of sincere Bahá'ís, who try their very best to understand Bahá'u'lláh's teachings, why should I spend a second considering nonsense?

Best,

from

gnat
 
Old 02-13-2018, 05:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post

Eh, careful. I'd advise against taking too harsh a tone against Pawel. You've read his blog, so I take it you might already realize that he seems to want negative feedback, because in his eyes that validates his message due to the misapplied concept of the "rejection of the prophets".

I think we should adopt a positive embrace of Pawel. Treat him as just a Baha'i. An extreme example of "unity in diversity", perhaps, but a Baha'i none-the-less. Treating him as a Baha'i, and not a "Nazarethan", seems to me like it might be the best approach, since I think at some level he wants us to view him as some sort of heretic.
He is not a Baha'i. Therefore I will not embrace him as one. I'm always glad to hear from you, friend However we have different ways of dealing with this, haha. I rarely interact with him, just watch from afar usually.

He is preaching disunion, not unity, in that he blatantly assigns things he does and doesn't like as 'right and wrong' - Even if it was said by somebody like Baha'u'llah, Jesus or Moses. He is Baha'i in namesake only. I don't think he has read more than a few Wikipedia pages about the Baha'i faith, since half of what he says goes directly against the teachings of the faith.

For example, in repeating Allah-u-Abha 95 times, his reasoning is "*God doesn’t hearing mantras", despite this being ordained by Baha'u'llah himself... Yes, Baha'u'llah was teaching false things. Definitely a Baha'i viewpoint.

"Why OT (Old Testament) is still holy instead Gospel, Quran and Aqdas." He preaches for the use of the Tanakh instead of the Qur'an or the Kitab-i-Aqdas. Not only does he deny the laws of Baha'i, but even the scriptures they come from.

Yet he still "preach that Baha’u’llah was return of Jesus," ... So he accepts Baha'u'llah as the spiritual return of Christ, a man who was known for his perfections, yet denies Baha'u'llah's individual laws and the scriptures they come from. By his own contradictions, would he not be denying the will of Christ by denying Baha'u'llah, since both come from the same spiritual source?

In fact, he claims he has the power to abrogate laws of the Baha'i faith. Cause he's a "Prophet" and if he doesn't like Baha'u'llah's words he can ignore them to suit his own desires, even deciding to ignore certain holidays, while accepting the ones he likes. Or, as he says, "God all time show me what’s good and what’s wrong in bahaism"

Not to mention he pushes for a literal Heaven and Hell, now not only going against the laws, and scriptures, but the ideas in general now, in saying "everlasting wandering of souls don’t exist, we are mortal and subordinate to judgment after death – to hell or to heaven only." On top of denying the symbolism of Heaven and Hell, he denies another idea, that of symbolic 'resurrection', saying that God will eventually raise everyone from the dead in a physical body. On top of that, despite claiming to believe in Jesus and Baha'u'llah... "Personally, I do not believe in the Messiah – because it diminishes the role of God."

So, he disagrees with the ideas, the laws, and the scriptures they're from...

But he also doesn't like the institution:
"Universal House of Justice desires of money of poor people, they are like “pharises” who get rich on huququllah, funds etc. ", even claiming he "Did up with the hierarchy of UHJ"

So, a denier of the ideas, laws, scriptures, and institutions of the Baha'i faith... I would not call him a Baha'i. Certainly not an example of the unity of diversity, so much as the perversion of unity. He's just some guy who cherry picks what he likes best about each religion and calls what he doesn't like false. Really not sure why he called his group "Nazarethan Baha'i Faith"... Considering that, first, Nazarethan isn't the proper demonym, and second, he doesn't really follow the Baha'i Faith... My best guess is that he called it the Nazarethan Baha'i faith so that he could appeal to the Baha'i community, or because he "Accepts" Baha'u'llah, though not his ideas, scriptures or laws... Or maybe even he thinks that since the faith is not big, and it is the latest revelation, in taking the namesake of the faith he is continuing the latest revelation. Who knows.

Either way. Pawel is not a Baha'i.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat
"Well, given the large number of sincere Bahá'ís, who try their very best to understand Bahá'u'lláh's teachings, why should I spend a second considering nonsense?"
Very well put, gnat.
 
Old 02-14-2018, 05:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saveyist View Post
On the topic of mantras, I noticed Walrus mentioned it. It's for the one using the mantra in order to center themselves in God's love. Do you truly think the all-knowing... doesn't know you're chanting a mantra in his name? A mantra like Allah-u-Abha, "God is the most glorious". The fact that you are not willing to put the effort to say the words does not mean the words are false.
I am a real Baha'i because I believe in Baha'u'llah, His teachings and laws, but I do not understand why God wants us to say "God is the most glorious" 95 times each day. What if we believe Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God but we do not believe that God is the most glorious... should we say it anyway?

I cannot help but think that a God that wants us to say that 95 times a day is narcissistic, yet I know that God cannot be narcissistic, so I am very conflicted.

Believing that God is good in spite of all the suffering in the world is near impossible for me... I know all the Baha'i explanations for suffering but I still do not understand why an All-Loving God who is All-Powerful just stands by and watches humans and animals suffer, most through no fault of their own... I am approaching this from logic, not emotion... ;-)
 
Old 02-14-2018, 05:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
I am a real Baha'i because I believe in Baha'u'llah, His teachings and laws, but I do not understand why God wants us to say "God is the most glorious" 95 times each day. What if we believe Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God but we do not believe that God is the most glorious... should we say it anyway?

I cannot help but think that a God that wants us to say that 95 times a day is narcissistic, yet I know that God cannot be narcissistic, so I am very conflicted.

Believing that God is good in spite of all the suffering in the world is near impossible for me... I know all the Baha'i explanations for suffering but I still do not understand why an All-Loving God who is All-Powerful just stands by and watches humans and animals suffer, most through no fault of their own... I am approaching this from logic, not emotion... ;-)
Abdu'l-Bahá has said that it is for our well-being. And personally, I've noticed that it has great importance for my psychological balance.

Just regard it as a mantra and do it!

P. S. And concerning the narcissistic God, the Old Testament has a few things to say. And still, He is so far beyond our comprehension. He doesn't need us. And concerning the God who allows suffering: well it's the old problem of Theodicy. My understanding is that if God would act in order to remove all suffering, we would be stuck in a completely stagnant world, as suffering is part of our lives as free human beings. Without suffering, with a God who would pamper us beyond our wildest dreams, we would have nothing to strive for, nothing to accomplish. So, bascially, without suffering we would be reduced to vegetables.

Well, how about removing extreme suffering then? Well, try to imagine such a life. You drive a car, and you're about to have a terrible accident, but you're not afraid, because you know that an angel will arrive to save you. So why should you even care to drive carefully? Then we reduce the problem to every day problems. A child hasn't understood his homework and is afraid of what will happen when he arrives at school. But actually, hw lives in that world where God has removed suffering, so he knows that he will know his homework when the teacher asks him. So why should he bother to study? God will do his homework. Etc, etc. A world without suffering would be meaningless - a planet inhabited by puppets, entirely kept by a puppet master.

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 02-14-2018 at 05:43 PM.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 12:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Abdu'l-Bahá has said that it is for our well-being. And personally, I've noticed that it has great importance for my psychological balance.

Just regard it as a mantra and do it!
Actually I was very inactive in the Baha'i Faith for many years until about five years ago and I am still not active in the community although I am active online When I joined in 1970 I was not told about the 95 times so I never knew about it till recently when I heard another Baha'i mention it... I have been trying to do it on my bike ride on the way to work even if it does not feel right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
P. S. And concerning the narcissistic God, the Old Testament has a few things to say.
So my intuition was not altogether wrong after all...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
And still, He is so far beyond our comprehension. He doesn't need us.
Yes, I sure know that, considering what Baha'u'llah wrote about that... I do not know about the Bible, I was never Christians and do not know the Bible hardly at all or what it says about God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
And concerning the God who allows suffering: well it's the old problem of Theodicy. My understanding is that if God would act in order to remove all suffering, we would be stuck in a completely stagnant world, as suffering is part of our lives as free human beings. Without suffering, with a God who would pamper us beyond our wildest dreams, we would have nothing to strive for, nothing to accomplish. So, bascially, without suffering we would be reduced to vegetables.

Well, how about removing extreme suffering then? Well, try to imagine such a life. You drive a car, and you're about to have a terrible accident, but you're not afraid, because you know that an angel will arrive to save you. So why should you even care to drive carefully? Then we reduce the problem to every day problems. A child hasn't understood his homework and is afraid of what will happen when he arrives at school. But actually, hw lives in that world where God has removed suffering, so he knows that he will know his homework when the teacher asks him. So why should he bother to study? God will do his homework. Etc, etc. A world without suffering would be meaningless - a planet inhabited by puppets, entirely kept by a puppet master.
gnat
I do understand about suffering and why there is suffering, I just wonder why it is SO unevenly distributed, but as my husband who has been a Baha'i for 53 years always says, I won't know WHY until I die... I am sure I will know then, but meanwhile...... And it is not just my suffering, as that is not as bad as it used to be... It is all the other suffering in the world, like this school shooting that just happened in Florida... Yeah, I know you live where the laws and the society is very different from the U.S. The fact that about 70% of people in the U.S are still Christians and most are still waiting for Jesus to return factors into politics and the society at large... It really wears on me being a Baha'i in this society...
 
Old 02-15-2018, 03:55 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
When I joined in 1970 I was not told about the 95 times so I never knew about it till recently when I heard another Baha'i mention it... I have been trying to do it on my bike ride on the way to work even if it does not feel right.
It was not until I entered a Buddhist temple that I discovered the beauty of chanting. It can be surprisingly relaxing, especially in a group.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 10:09 AM   #16
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Yeah, I know you live where the laws and the society is very different from the U.S. (
Indeed, I live in "the perfect society" - a society where there is an immense belief in society. But now and then the perfect society mistreats its citizens: tells lies about them and denies them justice. In such cases, every complaint is seen as a sign of an antisocietal attitude, and every effort is made to label them as querolous quarrelmongers. So, the amount of suffering seems to be constant, it's just the character of it that differs.

Oh, the lies invented in this "perfect society" - they can make you choke.

Best

from

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Old 02-15-2018, 12:30 PM   #17
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It was not until I entered a Buddhist temple that I discovered the beauty of chanting. It can be surprisingly relaxing, especially in a group.
Thanks... We have lots of Buddhist centers near where I live and I have been curious about them, but we also had a large Baha'i school near here and I never once went to it in all the 25 years we have lived here. I do not "do" groups at all... I am a loner, an introvert... Thank God for the internet because otherwise I would never talk to anyone, except at work.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 12:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Indeed, I live in "the perfect society" - a society where there is an immense belief in society. But now and then the perfect society mistreats its citizens: tells lies about them and denies them justice. In such cases, every complaint is seen as a sign of an antisocietal attitude, and every effort is made to label them as querolous quarrelmongers. So, the amount of suffering seems to be constant, it's just the character of it that differs.

Oh, the lies invented in this "perfect society" - they can make you choke.

Best

from

gnat
Interesting... I guess you are referring to a primarily atheist society... I can understand why it would be that way... That is the other extreme from American society where people believe that prayers are going to fix everything... Frankly, I doubt God does anything besides sending Prophets, so prayers are just something that give people false hope.

I have posted to more atheists and agnostics in the past five years than you can imagine and many want to believe in God but can't because they see no evidence that a God exists... Sometimes I wish God did not exist because I see no reason for a God that does nothing to exist, but unfortunately I believe Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be and I have never been able to disprove it.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 04:37 PM   #19
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Sacrifice for Molokh as homosexual acts not feelings

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Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
Okay, so I agree with that. But how is it that Satan is responsible for "homosexual acts" and "[teaching] severe immorality" if he has no power to tempt?? Wouldn't he only be able to do such things as you say through temptation??
You can don't believe, but Satan teachs them that activities to perform it in pagan temples to worship him so called "temple prostitution" to sacrifice of Molocha as false God that means demon
 
Old 02-15-2018, 04:45 PM   #20
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Sometimes I wish God did not exist because I see no reason for a God that does nothing to exist, but unfortunately I believe Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be and I have never been able to disprove it.
Oh, I love such statements. Good communication starts with sincerity.

gnat
 
Old 02-15-2018, 09:14 PM   #21
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Oh, I love such statements. Good communication starts with sincerity.

gnat
Thanks... I am not much for pretense, and I cannot lie. I am just a lost soul making her way to who knows where.

God already knows how I feel about Him so I see no reason to keep it a secret.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 10:17 PM   #22
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Thanks... I am not much for pretense, and I cannot lie. I am just a lost soul making her way to who knows where.

God already knows how I feel about Him so I see no reason to keep it a secret.
The where is more of the veil than the Reality...

"O My servants! The one true God is My witness! This most great, this fathomless and surging Ocean is near, astonishingly near, unto you. Behold it is closer to you than your life-vein!"
 
Old 02-16-2018, 12:01 AM   #23
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The where is more of the veil than the Reality...

"O My servants! The one true God is My witness! This most great, this fathomless and surging Ocean is near, astonishingly near, unto you. Behold it is closer to you than your life-vein!"
Why do you think that the where is a veil, or are you saying that I can't get to where I am going which is closer than I think because of a veil?

What if I do not want to go into that Ocean?
 
Old 02-16-2018, 09:13 PM   #24
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Ocean and spirits of Holy Spirit never ending, never exist One messager but many
 
Old 02-16-2018, 10:45 PM   #25
Junior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2018
From: Arizona-but earth is one homeland ;)
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
Why do you think that the where is a veil, or are you saying that I can't get to where I am going which is closer than I think because of a veil?

What if I do not want to go into that Ocean?
Wither will you go where that Ocean is not?
 
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