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Old 04-29-2018, 05:41 PM   #1
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Hinduism: An Unbridled Ramble of Love

Greetings, all! I hope you find yourselves well. I got back from a reflection gathering a little while ago and I feel so invigorated. I had already felt my spirit brimming with intensity last night. I don't know why, but last night I found myself weeping tears of joy.

I have spent about 8 months studying Hinduism on a daily basis. It all started with one quote:
"… The origins of this and many other religions that abound in India are not quite known to us, and even the Orientalists and the students of religions are not in complete accord about the results of their investigations in that field. The Bahá’í writings also do not refer specifically to any of these forms of religion current in India. So, the Guardian feels it impossible to give you any definite and detailed information on that subject. He would urge you, however, to carry on your studies in that field, although its immensity is well-nigh bewildering, with the view of bringing the Message to the Hindus…."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi: Dawn of a New Day, p. 198, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1692)

I heard a calling in the depths of my soul. Even if it was immense, I knew this was a task that I yearned to do. It has been, and will continue to be difficult, but this task of mine is one I am willing to do no matter how lofty it may be. And so I began to study.

At first, I was lost and bewildered. I learned of the literal hundreds of Hindu prophets that collectively composed the Vedas. All the different types of scriptures, Vedas, Upanishads, Itihasas, Puranas, Sutras, Agamas, etc.

And then I had fallen in love. I did what I love and made a chronology of Hindu sages. Then, once I had it all in order after about a month, I started researching the stories and lives of each figure. It was so joyful to learn such lovely and intriguing stories. Soon I had learned of Hindu cycles, and how the Baha'i faith actually fulfills their cycles and gives us a more reliable method of calculating the yugas. And I did just that. And I determined that the oldest figures lived in the times of hunter-gatherers, roughly 100,000 years in the past. It struck me as beautiful, seeing that God has truly been with us all along. From our humble beginnings to our grand metropolises, from simple stones to supercomputers; He was there all along.

And so I started to learn who wrote what. And I had learned many things. Primal religions that are so ancient we don't know when they truly began. A small but rather unified population for it's ancient time. The origins of so many technologies. I had been awestruck for so long, and soon, I started an interfaith group, which would eventually become the Menders, to share this spiritually infused information, and study the origins of spirituality, and these ancient texts.

I learned more and more every day. Stories of morality, ancient tribal kings seeking wealth and getting it spiritually, and even the first prophecy of the Kalki.

I mentioned him once before. A Kulakara (survival-prophet) named Swayambhuva, who was the ruler of what would have effectively been the rather minute but strong-willed humans of the day, had prayed to the Lord for descendants that would beautify this world. And God spoke to him and accepted his prayers, saying He would bring forth various descendants of Swayambhuva, namely Rama, and the Kalki.

This blew my mind. The promised one is what humanity has been waiting for even since the time of Swayambhuva. The culmination of these prophecies was 100,000 years in the making. It makes me all the more humble to be a Baha'i. Humanity has been waiting since it was a mere infant to hear His words, and we were blessed to be born after it had culminated.

And so I studied the texts that Swayambhuva wrote (Excluding some of the ones that are existent in significantly variable manuscripts that never agree with each other), and saw such rich symbolism and spirituality. And currently, the part of the Yajurveda written by Swayambhuva (Book 5 chapter 6 of the black Yajurveda) is what I am doing a deepening on with the Menders.

After Swayambhuva, Vasishtha was the first expounder of the Vedas. And so he wrote effectively all of Mandala 7 of the Rigveda. I read the stories of all the 7 sages (Vasishtha, Marichi, Pulastya, Pulaha, Atri, Angiras, and Kratu), and sages close to them (Daksha and Bhrigu) - And then, I had finally read Vasishtha's writings.

It amazed me at the sheer wisdom Vasishtha had for his time - He was maybe only a decade younger than Swayambhuva, but the subjects they cover are very different. The ideas Vasishtha thought were so advanced for his age! And many still hold true to this day. I cannot help but picture him, long white hair in a bun on his head, a flowing beard, sleeping in a cave dressed in antelope skins, getting up in the morning in his little riverside camp and summoning everyone to the morning fire for a devotional session together. He was a man with a beautiful message and a tireless body, one who seemed to pour his very heart and soul out to the world, truly embodying what a Manifestation is.

But what gets me is how eerily similar his sayings are to Baha'u'llah's. Truly, when I read the Hidden Words, I had seen so many of Vasishtha's words perfectly summed up by Baha'u'llah. Their style of writing, ideas, and even the symbolism seems very similar to me! I became engrossed in learning more about these connections. I had soon read the writings of Marichi, and Bhrigu, and all the rest of those sages.

After studying deeply and searching for those connections, I still am not very far. I have read lots, from most all of the Puranas, and some of every Veda, and meditated many a night on those teachings and their connections with the Baha'i message. And how many connections there are! I plan to write a book when I am older about these connections. In truth on my journey I learned concepts at first I was afraid of, but came to love. I expanded my knowledge of other truths like karma - especially that, while we would like to think karma is purely about us and our actions, in reality 'karma' is purely the work of God and nobody else. I had also greatly expanded my understanding of reincarnation. I faced many perils with this, as I know practically all Baha'i's disbelieve in such a thing. And I feel like this will annoy people, but I am in disagreement with the statements the Universal House of Justice has said about reincarnation, though I get why they say it - I do accept the words of Abdu'l-Baha and believe the types of reincarnation he talks about are untrue, but reincarnation is not limited to just those types he mentioned (and I'm also not certain he was extremely knowledgeable when it comes to Hinduism (and the wide variety that reincarnation takes amongst their believers)), however I certainly don't think it's authoritative to say that no Manifestation has ever taught reincarnation, and I find it absolutely and utterly absurd to say that reincarnation is "wholly incompatible" with the Baha'i faith. That being said, I also think that, the Guardian was Completely correct to say reincarnation does not exist - for Gems of Divine Mysteries nullifies it (At least, my understanding of it), in the sense that, even if it once existed, after one understands Gems of Divine Mysteries, they have broken the Samsara cycle. He is definitely correct - reincarnation may have occurred previously, but with the coming of the Baha'i Era, such a tool is no longer necessary, as in a single letter, written in one day no less, Baha'u'llah had given people a way to easily end such a cycle, by giving them the key to understand God's message. I was conflicted for a very long time on this, and sometimes I still feel conflicted, but I remember that Baha'u'llah has blessed us with a great blessing and relieved us of such a weight. Once the Baha'i Faith is widespread, I believe that reincarnation will disappear entirely. The Baha'i Faith marks an end to things of old and a rejuvenation of the soul. I had also learned plenty about the nature of the soul. I struggled with much, but in the end it had fit quite nicely with the faith - essentially, God is present everywhere, even if He is not contained within reality. Everything is His energy, just as our souls are his light. The Bhagavata Purana mentions many a time that the soul is pure consciousness, awareness in the most perfect form, and that awareness continues indefinitely after the death of the body. I initially thought this to be nonsense, but after reading more and more I came to see it as true - and I can't wait to see where my consciousness is after death, because of Baha'u'llah. He has truly made death a messenger of joy!

Not only did Baha'u'llah effectively end reincarnation, but he also marks the beginning of something beautiful - after Krishna's death in ~3100 BC, the Kali Yuga had begun, where the world would reach it's lowest points. It is said in the Puranas that when the Kalki comes, he will usher in the next Yuga, which would be the Dwapara Yuga - while the Kali Yuga comprised of 3/4 unrighteousness and 1/4 righteousness, after the Kalki, things would improve, and be half and half. And, in using the time between Krishna and Baha'u'llah as the length of the kali yuga, I predict that the Treta Yuga will begin in 11,880 (Where things will be 3/4 righteous and 1/4 unrighteous) and, by 26,862, we will have reached the Satya Yuga, where the world is righteous. I think the Satya Yuga may be the Great Peace. It will be a long time in the making, to the point where history will all but forget the works of our age, but it will happen one day. Truly, Baha'u'llah changed the course of the entire future with his message. Finally, with the coming of the beloved Kalki, the Kali Yuga has ended, and a new era where things will improve has arisen!

I can say without a shred of doubt in my mind that Baha'u'llah is the Kalki Avatar. His deeds, his actions, and his words, constitute a stunningly perfect continuation of ancient Hindu traditions. I have so much more to learn, and I can't wait to continue this great learning!

Then, I came to last night. I knew I had to get up early for this gathering, but could not sleep. My soul was stirring, my mind aflame with thoughts. I kept hearing a prayer by Vasishtha (I do not remember which one exactly, I want to say it is Hymn 15 of Mandala 7 of the Rigveda?) - and in my minds eye I could imagine Vasishtha, vibrant eyes, smiling lips, saying this prayer before a fire. But then, halfway through, it was no longer Vasishtha saying the prayer. On the other side of the fire was Baha'u'llah. And the prayer changed to one by him, but their voices blended so perfectly at one point that it was impossible to tell the two apart. A beautiful image from my imagination indeed. Seeing them unified, even if it was only a thought, was so beautiful to me. I am so utterly grateful that my life has brought me to this point.

Though they lived many millennia apart, they truly championed the same cause and taught the same truth.
 
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Old 04-29-2018, 11:56 PM   #2
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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I enjoyed tge start of this, but am away at the moment.

Will read in full when I return at the end of the week.

Hinduism is very complex.

Regards Tony
 
Old 04-30-2018, 12:11 AM   #3
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From: Glenwood, Queensland, Australia
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if we speak of the Hindu Faith, we must also mention the Baghavad Gita. There is a most interesting statement (among many interesting statements) that may be relevant here. I am quoting from the translation by Juan Mascaro (published by Penguin Classics), which, of all the translations I have seen, excels them all:

Quote:
6: Although I am unborn, everlasting, and I am the Lord of all, I come to my realm of nature and through my wondrous power I am born.

7: When righteousness is weak and faints and unrighteousness exults in pride, then my Spirit arises on earth.

8: For the salvation of those who are good, for the destruction of evil in men, for the fulfillment of the kingdom of righteousness, I come to this world in the ages that pass.
Chapter 4
And in another vein, from Chapter 3:

Quote:
22: I have no work to do in all the worlds, Arjuna -- for these are mine. I have nothing to obtain, because I have all. And yet I work.

23: If I was not bound to action, never-tiring, everlastingly, men that follow many paths would follow my path of inaction.

24: If ever my work had an end, these worlds would end in destruction, confusion would reign within all: this would be the death of all beings.

25: Even as the unwise work selfishly in the bondage of selfish works, let the wise man work unselfishly for the good of all the world.

26: Let not the wise disturb the mind of the unwise in their selfish work. Let him, working with devotion, show them the joy of good work.
And in another vein, Chapter 9 (I bolded for a reason):

Quote:
22: But to those who adore me with a oneness of soul, to those who are ever in harmony, I increase what they have and I give them what they have not.

23: Even those who in faith worship other gods, because of their love they worship me, although not in the right way.

24: For I accept every sacrifice, and I am their Lord supreme. But they know not my pure Being, and because of this they fall.

...

26: He who offers me with devotion only a leaf, or a flower, or a fruit, or even a little water, this I accept from that yearning soul, because with a pure heart it was offered with love.

27: Whatever you do, or eat, or give, or offer in adoration, let it be an offering to me, and whatever you suffer, suffer it for me.
A tiniest of smatterings, the most teeny of glimpses. In humbleness I offer one last quote, still in Chapter 9, one which would appear to this one to be regarding the Manifestation (look closely at the phrasing):

Quote:
16: For I am the sacrifice and the offering, the sacred gift and the sacred plant. I am the holy words, the holy food, the holy fire, and the offering that is made in the fire.

17: I am the Father of this universe, and even the source of the Father. I am the Mother of this universe, and the creator of all. I am the Highest to be known, the Path of of purification, the holy OM, the three Vedas

18: I am the Way, and the Master who watches in silence; thy friend and thy shelter and thy abode of peace. I am the beginning and the middle and the end of all things; their seed of Eternity, their Treasure supreme.

19: The heat of the sun come from me, and I send and withhold the rain. I am life immortal and death; I am what is and what is not.
With my love and most warm greetings

Romane

Last edited by Romane; 04-30-2018 at 12:17 AM.
 
Old 04-30-2018, 12:14 AM   #4
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From: Glenwood, Queensland, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saveyist View Post
I can say without a shred of doubt in my mind that Baha'u'llah is the Kalki Avatar. His deeds, his actions, and his words, constitute a stunningly perfect continuation of ancient Hindu traditions. I have so much more to learn, and I can't wait to continue this great learning!
https://www.miscellanie.com/kalki.htm



Romane
 
Old 04-30-2018, 12:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saveyist View Post
I have spent about 8 months studying Hinduism on a daily basis. ....
Beloved friend

I I may, a suggestion. In my first post above I mentioned the version of the Baghavad Gita which I personally think is the best available - see if you can get a copy of Juan Macaro's translation; it will add edification, joy and amazing elucidation in your ongrowing examination of an earlier stage of God's progressing Revelation to our species.

With my most warm greetings

Romane
 
Old 04-30-2018, 01:14 AM   #6
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Thank you so much for the link and your valuable input friend! I will get to the Bhagavad Gita (and at least do a readthrough of the whole Mahabharata) in the future some time. I know there is much to learn and though I have spent much time on the subject I am barely scratching the surface.
 
Old 04-30-2018, 07:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saveyist View Post
Greetings, all! I hope you find yourselves well. I got back from a reflection gathering a little while ago and I feel so invigorated. I had already felt my spirit brimming with intensity last night. I don't know why, but last night I found myself weeping tears of joy.
Recently I read the Alchemy of Happiness by Al-Ghazali, which talked at one point about the Sufi concept of ecstasy. This sounds quite similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saveyist View Post
And I determined that the oldest figures lived in the times of hunter-gatherers, roughly 100,000 years in the past. It struck me as beautiful, seeing that God has truly been with us all along. From our humble beginnings to our grand metropolises, from simple stones to supercomputers; He was there all along.
Just thought of something I had learned you might enjoy knowing:

A few years ago I decided to look into the original religion of Latvia/the Baltic region, since my grandmother was Latvian. One of the most interesting things I learned about that religion, Romuva, was that it had characters within it that could be found in different forms in many other religions. Like the god Perkons in the Romuva Faith was nearly identical to the Norse god Thor. Or more surprisingly, the characters of the Dieva Deli, two twin sons of God, one a herder one a warrior, who are nearly identical to descriptions of Krishna and Arjuna.

From there I learned that historians and anthropologists have been able to reconstruct the religion of the Proto-Indo-Europeans (once called the "Aryans", before the Nazis ruined the word), the ancient ancestors of all Europeans, Iranians, and (non-Dravidian) Indians, by drawing on similar linguistics and religious descriptions.

And thus, you are right in stating how old and ancient some of the Hindu Prophets are!! Some are so old that they lived in an age when the Hindus, the Iranians, and the Europeans were all one people, and as such you can find a lot of Hindu figures paralleled in many forms of European paganism, including Latvian folk-songs about Krishna and Arjuna.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saveyist View Post
after Krishna's death in ~3100 BC, the Kali Yuga had begun, where the world would reach it's lowest points
I think what I wrote above also points to your timeline here as being correct, or at least a good estimate. Krishna being found in Baltic religion makes sense with your estimate of when Krishna lived, since according to anthropologists around 3100 BC, the ancestors of the Balts and Hindus were one people, living in the Pontic Steppe, before a mastery of horsecraft allowed the Proto-Indo-Europeans to spread out and settle Europe, India, and everything in-between.

Which is interesting, as normally the figure of Krishna conjures up images of the Indian Subcontinent, when his homeland may have in actuality been rather far from that particular area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saveyist View Post
I mentioned him once before. A Kulakara (survival-prophet) named Swayambhuva, who was the ruler of what would have effectively been the rather minute but strong-willed humans of the day, had prayed to the Lord for descendants that would beautify this world. And God spoke to him and accepted his prayers, saying He would bring forth various descendants of Swayambhuva, namely Rama, and the Kalki.

This blew my mind. The promised one is what humanity has been waiting for even since the time of Swayambhuva. The culmination of these prophecies was 100,000 years in the making. It makes me all the more humble to be a Baha'i. Humanity has been waiting since it was a mere infant to hear His words, and we were blessed to be born after it had culminated.
This kind of blew my mind as well, because it planted a thought in my mind. First, it reminds me of Abraham, who had a similar promise made to him.

And both promises together make Persia an ideal location for this most recent revelation, because Persia is an area where both Semitic and Proto-Indo-European ethnicities have mixed. Meaning the two most recent Prophets could theoretically be related to both promises (and we already know of a link to Abraham). So what better location for a Prophecy that affirms both Semetic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and Proto-Indo-European (Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism) religions??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saveyist View Post
I had also greatly expanded my understanding of reincarnation. I faced many perils with this, as I know practically all Baha'i's disbelieve in such a thing. And I feel like this will annoy people, but I am in disagreement with the statements the Universal House of Justice has said about reincarnation, though I get why they say it - I do accept the words of Abdu'l-Baha and believe the types of reincarnation he talks about are untrue, but reincarnation is not limited to just those types he mentioned (and I'm also not certain he was extremely knowledgeable when it comes to Hinduism (and the wide variety that reincarnation takes amongst their believers)), however I certainly don't think it's authoritative to say that no Manifestation has ever taught reincarnation, and I find it absolutely and utterly absurd to say that reincarnation is "wholly incompatible" with the Baha'i faith. That being said, I also think that, the Guardian was Completely correct to say reincarnation does not exist - for Gems of Divine Mysteries nullifies it (At least, my understanding of it), in the sense that, even if it once existed, after one understands Gems of Divine Mysteries, they have broken the Samsara cycle. He is definitely correct - reincarnation may have occurred previously, but with the coming of the Baha'i Era, such a tool is no longer necessary, as in a single letter, written in one day no less, Baha'u'llah had given people a way to easily end such a cycle, by giving them the key to understand God's message. I was conflicted for a very long time on this, and sometimes I still feel conflicted, but I remember that Baha'u'llah has blessed us with a great blessing and relieved us of such a weight. Once the Baha'i Faith is widespread, I believe that reincarnation will disappear entirely. The Baha'i Faith marks an end to things of old and a rejuvenation of the soul. I had also learned plenty about the nature of the soul. I struggled with much, but in the end it had fit quite nicely with the faith - essentially, God is present everywhere, even if He is not contained within reality. Everything is His energy, just as our souls are his light. The Bhagavata Purana mentions many a time that the soul is pure consciousness, awareness in the most perfect form, and that awareness continues indefinitely after the death of the body. I initially thought this to be nonsense, but after reading more and more I came to see it as true - and I can't wait to see where my consciousness is after death, because of Baha'u'llah. He has truly made death a messenger of joy!
Hmmm, there's a lot of thoughts I have on the subject of reincarnation, but I have no time at the moment. I'll come back to this later.
 
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