Fadl

Good points, Investigate.

It is worth noting that, while the Bab and Baha'u'llah embraced the 12 twelver Imams, they did not confine themselves to it. There are many teachings that they shared similar or identical views to that were not accepted in twelver shia, and expressed and or originated from outside it.

There are also Sunnis, who, while not holding to the belief of Alid Fatamid succesorship, still do respect and revere the Imams for their character and maybe even a few of their beliefs. The most obvious of these, and the only one I will mention here because I am going of the cuff now, is Hasan and Hussein. The Ashira anniversary is one of much sorrow for all Muslims even though nobody goes to the extent that twelvers do in marking this awful martyrdom.

So, if Baha and the Bab had come to a sunni, or even a christian context, I suppose that the dominant flavor of their faith would be of the culturual religious milieu in which they came, while also acknowledging and recognizing many of the truths from teachers outside that context, which might very well include all or some of the shia' imams. Yes I do know that this is pure speculation on my part, and only a wild hypothesis of my own, not a teaching of the faith that I know of.

Iconodule

How can you try something which fundamentally goes against your fatih. Do you believe that Christ gives mercy?

Fadl

You mean I'll have to get drunk first, or what are you saying? Certainly there are things I won't try, such as things against my faith, but I haven't seen something in what you've given me so for which does that, and I certainly believe that about Christ.

Give me a chance. I'd like to try your prayer, with your help. It is something that has obviously meant a lot to you or you would not have mentioned it, and I am sure I may benefit greatly from it if you teach me how.

Iconodule

I can't in good conscionce tell you how to perform the jesus prayer as I fear for your soul. Prayer should be done in spirit and in truth. When the prayer "have mercy on us" is said it indicates that Christ is the authority, that he is God and that he is the judge and that we need his mercy. But if you want to read a book on it, I reccomend the way of the pilgrim and the Pilgrim continues his way.

Fadl

I can't imagine praying it other than how you have described it, and it is difficult for me to imagine praying to my Lord with sincerity being a danger to my soul....If you don't want to tell me, I respect your decision. But what a great opportunity for you to contribute something positive here.

Zhang

The monks and laypeople alike pray that prayer with each breath while following down an orthodox prayer rope, usually with 100 or some odd knots in it. I've seen it done with: in breath, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God" out breath "Have mercy on me, a sinner". You say it internally usually. The idea is to pray it with every breath. I actually have a 100 knot chotki, Icon. And by your standards, i'm a savage! :O

>: )

Funny thing is some people in the Orthodox church are so afraid that if you pray it like that, without the supervision of a monk, and as a meditation with an out breath/in breath, you will be susceptible to demon attacks. Which is always hysterical.

Good luck! Peace.

LordOfGoblins

saying "lord Jesus have mercy on me a sinner" wouldnt contradict Bahai writings, as far as i can tell...

Fadl

Is there a particular quote you feel contradicts it, or it is just a feeling you have? I feel there is quite a lot in the Iqan that makes me feel quite OK with it in principle.

Fadl

So you have prayed this prayer?

Icon says it is better than Baha'i or Islamic prayers. I don't ask you to comment about that, but how did you find Icon's prayer as described above?

Zhang

Well obviously I think Islamic prayers are the best , but I have a Russian orthodox friend, he even taught me how to tie the prayer ropes. Following the breath is always relaxing. Sufi Muslims do a similar thing with a set of prayer beads (misbaha) and it is very calming, pretty much a mindfulness meditation.

Icon says it is better because he's an Orthodox Christian. Your prophet told you that the tablet of Ahmad is the best, and mine says that the contact prayer is the best. Everyones got a bias. ;D

IndistinctDreamer

Although the Tablet of Ahmad contains a certain potency unlike prayers I'm not aware of it ever being said its the best.

upadhyay

Although the Islamic prayer is in Arabic, I like the general musicality of it. I know this is offensive to Muslims who are keen to assert that it is not musical but recitation, but hey, I call a spade a spade. The imam in the local masjid has a beautiful voice too (I've heard some other azaans and recitations that sound like crows).
Also I like the whole incorporation of yoga into the salat/namaaz system.

I am yet to do a Bahai prayer with the prostrations like they do in the Islamic salats. The long one has instructions on when to do what, but I'm not particularly fond of the English language one. While I'm well fluent in English, reading these Bahai prayers in English are really laborious on me. I saw they have the prayers in Bengali (my language) but they don't have it broken down in terms of after saying what you do what. I tried interpolating between the English long prayer and the Bengali long prayer and they don't seem to match up (mind you, the Bengali one is also very very very lofty language and I kept having to call up my mom about every other word almost LOL)

Zhang

Salaam,

The Bengali community is very Muslim. I have met some really nice Bengali brothers and sisters near me.

I agree with you about salat too.

Are you a Baha'i now or...?

And the musical nature is often very relaxing. And yeah it is music, don't listen to those who try to draw and extremely thin line between the two. :/

upadhyay

alekum asalam

I was raised non-theistic in a Brahmin family. I was interested in a stronger monotheistic doctrine than the apologisms of Hinduism provide. The Upanishads already set the context for the divine reality being the unseen/incomprehensible/intangible/formless 3000 years before the Quran, so as a Hindu exploring up the spiritual ladder...I have arrived at the Bahai Faith

BlinkeyBill

I have read through all the posts here, apart from one person who appears to only wish to cause division I found the discussion of interest.

But to me the heading:- Benefits of Baha'i Prayers Over Islamic Prayers.

To my thinking trying to prove the benefit of ones religion over another are not correct behavior of a person who wishes to obey God.
What will it achieve to say my religion is better than yours, or our prayers are better than yours, only dislike and division. And I would like to say Ali that I don't believe this was your intention. As I have said I enjoyed the back and forth discussion.

To me if a person is interested in what others believe they buy a copy of their Holy book and study it, because in reality asking the followers is only diluting what you will learn, even if supplied with direct quotes you are not reading savoring the whole. Again they study with an open mind looking at the similarities and investigate closer when they APPEAR to be different. Of course I will acknowledge that this is a little harder with the Baha'i Faith as there are so many books, so much information from the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi. (But these Baha'i books are the direct writings of the messenger of God and not others recollections etc.)
For the first time in the history of the world we have writings first hand.

As I understand our teachings the Hadiths are not to be taken as scripture only the Quran, it is the same in the Baha'i Faith only the writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah are scripture also the authentic writings of Abdul-Baha, as he had the power of interpretation.
Just my understanding

EternalStudent

I've (of course) said Baha'i prayers (I love all three of the Obligatory Prayers. The Long Obligatory Prayer, especially, is so beautiful and I feel at total peace after saying it. Simply recalling the act of saying the prayer puts in into a peaceful state of mind), I have said Christian prayers (including the Jesus Prayer, Iconodule/Orthodox. I usually said it in English, but I also loved reciting it in Greek), I have chanted Hindu and Buddhist mantras, I have said Native American prayers to the Great Spirit, I have even said some Deist prayers (yes, they do exist. They're usually more of a reflection upon the wonder of God's creation than asking Him for anything though. Deists do not believe God performs miracles (not that He's incapable of it, just that He has no real reason to)). I've found them all to equally draw me nearer to my Creator. Sadly, I have not said any Islamic prayers. But then, I've never said any Jewish or Sikh prayers either.

Zhang

ES, good to see you back.

EternalStudent

Good to be back, Zhang.