richie42

Person interested in the Baha'i faith form Maryland. I was previously Catholic but left after the pope un-excommunicated (recommunicated?) the Holocaust-denying bishops.

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arthra

Welcome Richie!

Did you have any questions you'd like to ask about Baha'i Faith?

- Art

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beansbaxter

Welcome Richie! Where in Southern Maryland are you from?

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richie42

Hollywood.

Oh and I personally do not like how Baha'i's cannot be active in politics. It's just my passion. I mean some people care about NASCAR or ice hockey, I'm very political. Politics shouldn't be all, as Cameron put is best, "Punch and Judy" but it's simply unfair that just because I believe in most of the other substantive parts of the faith.

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arthra

True Baha'is are non-partisan and we do not register in any Party.

You can always be interested of course in politics.. The reasoning behind this is I think that it breaks up and polarizes people.. The Faith unites people who otherwise could be enemies.

As Baha'is we can serve on non-partisan commissions or appointive advisory roles as long as it's non-partisan!

- Art

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richie42

Well you can't do anything in the USA without a party.

I mean no one will agree on everything. I mean with a world government people will still argue about taxes and health care.

I mean it was Madison who said that factions were undesirable but inevitable. Right now the government regulates parties and that is a good thing. I mean looking at politics as a Republican or Democratic issue is really simplistic as there are many more smaller groups inside of the parties, too.

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Pollwr

This is an interesting discussion. It may be hard to envisage anything happening without political parties but I believe it would work just fine, anywhere. This is why. I would like to see those responsible for governing anywhere vote with their conscience on every issue. I think that, at times, good people following party lines go against what they believe on some issues. If all politicians followed their conscience on every issue then they may find that they were working with a different bunch of people to make a case, each time they considered a different issue.
I would go so far as to say that I view pollitical parties as the beginning of corruption in politics for some because otherwise honest people start to tow the party line and bargain with what they have been trusted to think about for themselves ("I will support your bill if you will support mine") Well, that's just my view anyway.

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arthra

Well Richie all can tell you is that being non-partisan has worked for me very well over the past thirty or so years.

As I said you can still be interested in politics as a Baha'i but it must be said that we Baha'is have a very long range view of the future.. We're not so much interested in the next election a few years from now as the next century or so..

Baha'u'llah invited the most powerful rulers of His day around 1871 to form a world parliament and an international court of arbitration as a way to resolve issues and secure world peace.. for the most part the rulers in those days pretty much ignored the message to form a world parliament.

Today, it's still up to the rulers and governments to form a world government but today we do have an international court of arbitration that is part of the United Nations.

We are much closer today as a planet I think in becoming more united than we were forty years ago... and this is what we Baha'is have been looking forward to for over a hundred years..

-Art

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richie42

Well I don't know how one would be able to enforce no political parties.

Secondly political parties pose a benefit because for the citizens they know that, basically, they can elect a centre-right politician or a centre-left one. Secondly it benefits the politicians because those with similar views can work together and the party organization is more efficient in delivering funds nationally than independent groups, people can send money to the DNC and their bureaucrats can decide which congressmen need money more.

I mean the idea of world government could lead to a dictatorship throughout all of earth. This could end up being the World State in Brave New World.

Meanwhile a world parliament will not be that representative of the people (unless it has several thousand MPs but then it wouldn't be that efficient)

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arthra

Richie wrote:

Well I don't know how one would be able to enforce no political parties.

Secondly political parties pose a benefit because for the citizens they know that, basically, they can elect a centre-right politician or a centre-left one. Secondly it benefits the politicians because those with similar views can work together and the party organization is more efficient in delivering funds nationally than independent groups, people can send money to the DNC and their bureaucrats can decide which congressmen need money more.

My comment:

I think you may be misunderstanding here.. Baha'is are non-partisan themselves we do not advocate eliminating political parties for non-Baha'is.. that's their business.

But all I can tell you is that political partisanship is yet another element that divides people and that the Faith unites people it does not polarize people.

Richie wrote:

I mean the idea of world government could lead to a dictatorship throughout all of earth. This could end up being the World State in Brave New World.

Meanwhile a world parliament will not be that representative of the people (unless it has several thousand MPs but then it wouldn't be that efficient).

My reply:

No one is advocating a "dictatorship throughout the earth".. Do you think the United Nations is such a "dictatorship"?.. No of course not it is a world body dedicated to peace and helping people. Nationalism is another thing that has divided and polarized people. Again, the Baha'i Faith is for uniting people and calling for a representive world government to deal with world problems.

- Art

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richie42

Well I don't know how in a society, you can expect that there is no political partisanship period. I mean even of there are non-partisan elections people who might be in favor of a sales tax would group together while those who are for a progressive income tax would group together as well and collaborate.

Secondly I don't expect that any logical Baha'i would advocate and in my opinion the United Nations is a corrupt organization full of people who are working for their own personal agendas.

I personally do not know how there would be a representative world government that is also effective as a world parliament that actually represents its people would have to be so large that it cannot preform its functions properly.

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AdibM

I'm also sure that in the 1800s, people could never have envisioned a utility like Twitter or Facebook. What we may find inconceivable is not necessarily impossible. I deem it largely a matter of faith.

-Adib

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richie42

Well I don't put governance to matters of faith. That's not how anything should be run, by faith.

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arthra

richie wrote:

Well I don't know how in a society, you can expect that there is no political partisanship period. I mean even of there are non-partisan elections people who might be in favor of a sales tax would group together while those who are for a progressive income tax would group together as well and collaborate.

My reply:

You probably haven't been around Baha'i communities very long. We Baha'is are forbidden to form partisan interest groups or form say a political type caucus in the Baha'i Faith.

As I wrote above.. What goes on in the political world is their business and we don't interfere with the political process and nor do we advocate that they make partisan politics illegal.. Please understand that!

Also, the Baha'i International Community has Non-governmental (NGO) status at the UN and participates in various conferences to educate governments about our positions

Richi:

Secondly I don't expect that any logical Baha'i would advocate and in my opinion the United Nations is a corrupt organization full of people who are working for their own personal agendas.

My reply:

There may be some of that but recall that it is the only body that offers a world forum.. It's up to the governemnts to form a representative world parliament.. How that occurs is up to them.. We only advocate for the idea.. If they "goof it up" they can also correct it..

Recall that the US federal system formed from a lot of different interests and it took awhile but it was finally realized.. We can expect it will take awhile for a world parliament to form but we believe we are closer today than in the past!

Richi:

I personally do not know how there would be a representative world government that is also effective as a world parliament that actually represents its people would have to be so large that it cannot preform its functions properly.

My reply:

The UN has been functioning since the end of WWII and has learned how to accomodate I think a lot of governments and interests .. also, today we have the electroinic revolution so it's easier than it was with the League of Nations in the twenties...

- Art

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CK9

In most countries, come election time the real extent to which partisan politics can divide people becomes apparent. It often overflows into outright violence, as we've seen recently in Zimbabwe and Iran.

In the US, it's not unusual for presidential candidates to spend millions undermining the character and credentials of their opponent. In the UK too, we have two sides in parliament: those in power, and the opposition.

The key word here -- which prevails throughout partisan politics -- is opposition. The Baha'i Writings fully encourage frank and loving exchange of views, however there is a crucial difference: Baha'u'llah eradicated the word 'opposition' and replaced it with the word 'consultation'.

One need but look at the Baha'i community to see that the new Order that Baha'u'llah brought really works. There is an organic unity among us, and come election time our hands are lifted up towards heaven and our hearts are filled with joy. There really is no comparison, and in time all these outworn systems will fully disintegrate and the New World Order of Baha'u'llah will illuminate the whole earth.

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