Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Welcome > New Users

New Users Post up here and introduce yourself!


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2015, 04:57 PM   #41
dash
 
Fadl's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
From: Somewhere "in this immensity"
Posts: 1,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis King View Post
Fadl, what on EARTH are you talking about? I never once said that I was a Mormon. I never said that.

NOR did I EVER say that I was a Daheshist, whatever that is. I have NO idea what a Daheshist is.

I lived and practiced the teachings of Islam for 28 years, FORMALLY taking my shahada (declaration of, "La illaha illalah, Muhammadar Rasoolulah") in 1975.

You must be getting me confused with some other person with whom you had a conversation.

Please be careful. I was making a friend here, and it bothers me that you may have given her a wrong impression of me, by stating that I said something that I have NEVER said. Go back and look at all of my posts, please. Thanks.
You are not Darrick? How embarrassing! I really thought you were for some reason. I'm sorry for the mistake, and it is good to have a Muslim here for discussion.

I was curious about your opinion of something since you are a very open-minded sort of muslim with some unique views.

Do you think reincarnation is possible, or is it in direct conflict with the teachings of the Qur'an? Do you think that it is possible for prophets or saints to be martyred and then return literally?

I know it seems a strange question, but if you consider that Sikhs strongly believe in reincarnation and Sikhism is in certain respects like a synthesis of Hindu and Islamic belief.

I should add that the Baha'i faith doesn't accept reincarnation and I don't believe in it.

Cheers

Last edited by Fadl; 01-25-2015 at 05:17 PM.
 
Join Baha'i Forums


Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!


Old 01-26-2015, 08:53 AM   #42
Member
 
Joined: Dec 2014
From: Chicago
Posts: 44
Reincarnation (Fadl)

I have to answer this in a few ways:

1. What Islam appears to say.
2. What I believe.
3. What others appear to have experienced, and what I've experienced.

ISLAM:
In the religion of Islam, there is no support for the belief in reincarnation. I have seen nothing in Qur'an that supports reincarnation. And I have seen nothing in the traditions (hadith) that supports that idea

MYSELF
As far as I'm concerned, right before us, in "living color," to use an old expression, we all witness how corrupt the idea of reincarnation is. We see this by examining the plight of India's Dalits, a people that have been under severe oppression for THREE-THOUSAND YEARS, non-stop, DUE TO the corrupt belief of reincarnation.

A VERY sad documentary that demonstrates the corruptness of this belief is entitled India Untouched:

India Untouched: Part 1

India Untouched: Part 2

The documentary shows that the Dalits are still SEVERELY persecuted. And this persecution is given sanction by the religious doctrine of reincarnation. The TV magazine, 60 Minutes, once did a documentary on the Dalits. And they interviewed a woman. They asked her what was her job. She said that it was her job to clean the latrines, and that that job had been in her family for ONE-THOUSAND YEARS. So, NO ONE in her family ever got the opportunity to explore another field; to exercise their intellect.

Whoever thought up the doctrine of reincarnation was the most evil and diabolical entity of all human history. The doctrine includes the belief that, if you are born a Dalit (an untouchable), it is because of something you did in a previous life. And the only way you can get out of that is that your soul be born, in a later life, into a higher caste. Of course, in the case of that woman that cleaned the latrines, it NEVER HAPPENED for her family. It's what we used to call, in my old neighborhood, a trick bag--a slick way to keep one section of a populace permanently oppressed.

The sad part is that, until recent times, the Dalits themselves accepted this idea, because it was their RELIGION. This is what is so diabolical. I had been keeping up, back in 1999, with a Dalit revolutionary group that had taken up arms and had decided to KICK SOME....But, I am no longer familiar with the Dalit struggle. It's horrendous.

But they are LIVING PROOF, beyond any doubt, that the doctrine of reincarnation is EVIL. The Dalits exist among us. So, this is not a philosophical matter. It is not a matter of debate anymore. We HAVE the proof. We SEE, today, what that doctrine led to: the PERPETUAL subjugation of a people.

Now, if there is any good in the doctrine of reincarnation, the bad OUTWEIGHS the good. If there is any good in that doctrine, then that good got BURIED, a long time ago. Even if the good (if it ever existed) got buried by human connivance, this STILL shows that the doctrine itself is unacceptable.

I belong to an oppressed group. And, before learning about the Dalits, I used to bitch to the high heavens that "our people" were the "most oppressed," yada, yada, yada. I would recite the exact number of years that we've been oppressed. But the number of years my people have been oppressed (and are continuing to be oppressed) is insignificant when it comes to the THREE-THOUSAND-YEAR (and counting!!) oppression of the Dalit people. They are the saddest story of human oppression in history, and it's still happening BIG time.

Okay, now it's time to contradict myself. :-)

OTHERS AND MY EXPERIENCE:
The honest answer about myself is that I DO NOT KNOW if reincarnation is real, and there is no way that I can prove that it occurs or not. How could I? It's not possible. But, I've seen the RESULTS of doctrine of reincarnation, in the perpetual oppression of the Dalit class in India, may Almighty Allah relieve them, permanently, of their oppression.

The Qur'an says, "And they ask thee about the soul. Say, 'The soul is by the Command of Allah. Of the knowledge thereof, ye have been given but little."

So, Allah says Prophet Muhammad had been given very little knowledge of the soul. So to has everyone else. We have very little knowledge (if any!!) of the soul, other than what the mystics and others have told us.

Now, I must say that there is a healthcare modality that has ALMOST convinced me that there is SOMETHING to this issue of reincarnation. I do not wish to name that modality. But, I will get DEFINITE confirmation, one way or the other, as to whether reincarnation is true or not, hopefully before the next two years are out, Insha Allah (Allah Willing). The proof will be irrefutable, if certain things occur. I'm looking forward to finding out.

There are healthcare practitioners that have discovered, using accepted biofeedback methods, "active memories," within clients, that exist, within them, and that are surfaced by biofeedback techniques. Those memories have been traced to ancestors of these clients, and the specific memories were verified by family relatives of the clients, historical records, etc. [For personal reasons, I do not wish, at this time, to give any references. I might do so at some later date, Insha Allah].

Once the practitioner caused the "active memory" to surface, then that active memory became a "passive memory," and the client was cured of his or her ailment. This memory is not a memory that the client had on the conscious level at all. But, through sessions with a practitioner, the memory surfaced, from the subconscious to the conscious. And once that happened, the client's ailment, whether it was physical or psychological, vanished.

What does it mean? Does it mean that the client had some embedded memory in his or her genes? Does it mean that that client has the reincarnated soul of some ancestor, or some non-related person of the past? I just do not know.

But, if, within the next couple of years, I get my proof that reincarnation is real, I STILL reject it as a religious philosophy, because it has been proven that the elevation of reincarnation as a religious concept and as a religious belief can produce results that are horrendous.

The principle I'm going by is the Qur'anic principle on alcohol. Qur'an says that there is "good in wine and the game of chance [gambling]..." but that the bad OUTWEIGHS the good. My mother, my father, and all three of my uncles were alcoholics. I can tell you that their alcoholism was NOT good for them, and was very, very destructive.

There are others for whom the consumption of alcohol does not have that effect. So, Allah has banned alcohol consumption because, even though it can have good effects, its bad outweighs the good.

The doctrine of reincarnation has been proven to be too bad to be incorporated within ANY belief system. View that documentary.

Last edited by Dennis King; 01-26-2015 at 09:40 AM.
 
Old 01-26-2015, 09:28 AM   #43
Member
 
Joined: Dec 2014
From: Chicago
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fadl View Post
You are not Darrick? How embarrassing! I really thought you were for some reason. I'm sorry for the mistake, and it is good to have a Muslim here for discussion.

Do you think reincarnation is possible, or is it in direct conflict with the teachings of the Qur'an? Do you think that it is possible for prophets or saints to be martyred and then return literally?

Cheers
In the Bible, as I recall, the Disciples of Hazrat Isa (Jesus), alaihe salaam, asked Jesus if he was Elias, who the Jews believed was going to return. Jesus replied by indicating that Hazrat Yahya (John the Baptist), alaihe salaam, was Elias. What did that mean?

Did it mean that John the Baptist carried the reincarnated soul of Elias? Or did it mean that John the Baptist carried the ATTRIBUTES of Elias; that John the Baptist was SIMILIAR to Elias.

And could that be what is really meant by the "return" of Hazrat Isa, alaihe salaam, to this earth? For instance, Hazrat Bahaullah, alaihe salaam (peace be upon him) is not Hazrat Isa (as). But Baha'is believe that Bahaullah (as) is "Jesus returned," in the sense, as I understand it, of Bahaullah's attributes; of his message of peace, etc.

Of course, those who believe that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, alaihe salaam, was "The Promised Messiah," believe precisely as Baha'is believe: that Hazrat Ahmad (as) was not Jesus himself, but that he carries the same message--a message of peace, etc.--that Jesus carried.

Now, the overwhelming majority of Muslims, as well as the overwhelming majority of Christians, believe that Jesus is coming back PHYSICALLY. The Christians believe he's coming back to set up the Christian Kingdom of God on earth [even though Jesus, according to the Gospels, said that the "Kingdom of God is within you"]. And the Muslims believe that Jesus, accompanied by Imam Mahdi, is going to return to establish Dar-ul-Islam, i.e., the world of Islam, or the dominance of Islam on this earth.

It is quite interesting that both Christians and Muslims (most of them) believe that Jesus is coming back to make THEIR religion dominant on this earth. Personally, I subscribe to the Ahmadiyya view [which DOES NOT mean, necessarily, that I am an Ahmadi Muslim.

In fact, one of the top religious authorities of Al-Azhar University issued a fatwah explicitly stating that, to not believe that Jesus is physically coming back is perfectly Islamic. So, there are probably non-Ahmadi Muslims that believe as Ahmadi Muslims believe: that Jesus is dead and buried, but his soul is with God. Qur'an says that all human beings die.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 10:13 AM   #44
Junior Member
 
Joyful Being's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2015
From: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by aidan View Post
You sound amazing, a woman I'd love to meet. Pity we live opposite sides of the pond

Thank you! Who knows? Maybe one day we'll meet, insha'Allah [God willing]!
 
Old 02-11-2015, 01:14 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2011
From: n ireland
Posts: 1,747
Insha'Allah. If not in this world, then certainly in the next dear sister
 
Old 10-12-2015, 12:22 PM   #46
Junior Member
 
Joyful Being's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2015
From: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10
Talking I'm a Baha'i!

ACHTUNG! ACHTUNG!

This is to let y'all know that on Friday 2 October 2015, I went online to the Baha'i website and declared my faith in Baha'u'llah.

I AM NOW OFFICAIALLY A BAHA'i, ALHAMDULILLAH!!
 
Old 10-12-2015, 12:40 PM   #47
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
ACHTUNG! ACHTUNG!

This is to let y'all know that on Friday 2 October 2015, I went online to the Baha'i website and declared my faith in Baha'u'llah.

I AM NOW OFFICAIALLY A BAHA'i, ALHAMDULILLAH!!
God Bless your Journey Joyful Being and may your Journey be full of Discovery and Joy.

Just remember God wants Love and Joy for us and will Test us to cement that Joy for all time.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 10-12-2015, 12:44 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
becky's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: colorado/summer-Oklahoma/winter
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Thanks a lot. This is terribly interesting. You seem to read the original text. I found a translation, which seems to be a provisional one. The text you refer to reads as follows in that translation:

O Hasan! Hearken unto the Call of Husayn Who hath been incarcerated in the Prison Fortress of ’Akká by reason of that which the hands of the heedless have wrought. If one were to question them, “by what reason have ye imprisoned Him?”, they would reply: “Verily, He hath come with a new Shariah and this new Shariah doth not accord with the Law under which we have been. To this matter testifieth our Book which is called the Qur’án, a Book that is from God, the Lord of all mankind. See that which the All-Merciful hath revealed therein: ‘Verily He is the Messenger of God, and the Seal of the Prophets.’”

To this We reply: “Indeed thou speaketh the truth. We do testify that through Him, Messengership and Prophethood have both been sealed and any one claiming after Him this most exalted station is in manifest error. Nevertheless, O Questioner! Hearken unto My voice which sayeth: “Open thine eyes that thou mayest behold the Most Great Beauty, through Whom speaketh the Lord of divine decree. By God! Through Him the ‘Hour’ hath appeared, and the ‘Resurrection’ hath come to pass, and the ‘Moon’hath been cleft asunder and thou wouldst behold all in a ‘continuing Regeneration’ if thou be of them that possess insight.

“Verily, through His Advent hath come to be fulfilled the Advent about which glad tidings have been given by the Messengers of God from all eternity and there hath come to pass about which God hath revealed in the Qur’án: ‘On that Day they shall all rise before the Lord of mankind.’ Truly the Cycle of Prophethood hath been rolled up and He Who hath sent down the Prophets hath come, arrayed with a manifest and perspicuous sovereignty.



gnat

Thank you Highheels for bringing up this eye opening information...and thank you gnat for posting the more complete translation. It is terribly, wonderfully interesting stuff!!

Loving regards,
Becky

Last edited by becky; 10-12-2015 at 12:47 PM. Reason: Typo
 
Old 10-12-2015, 03:40 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Florida
Posts: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
This is to let y'all know that on Friday 2 October 2015, I went online to the Baha'i website and declared my faith in Baha'u'llah.

Wonderful! Great News! Welcome!

"If, on the day of His Revelation, all that are on earth bear Him allegiance, Mine inmost being will rejoice, inasmuch as all will have attained the summit of their existence, and will have been brought face to face with their Beloved, and will have recognized, to the fullest extent attainable in the world of being, the splendor of Him Who is the Desire of their hearts."

The Bab
 
Old 10-12-2015, 06:14 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2011
From: n ireland
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
ACHTUNG! ACHTUNG!

This is to let y'all know that on Friday 2 October 2015, I went online to the Baha'i website and declared my faith in Baha'u'llah.

I AM NOW OFFICAIALLY A BAHA'i, ALHAMDULILLAH!!
Alhamdulillah, Allah'u'abha, Hallelujah, welcome home little sister, our family is thriving And you live so close to The House of Worship

Last edited by aidan; 10-12-2015 at 06:17 PM.
 
Old 10-13-2015, 07:02 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: _
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
ACHTUNG! ACHTUNG!

This is to let y'all know that on Friday 2 October 2015, I went online to the Baha'i website and declared my faith in Baha'u'llah.

I AM NOW OFFICAIALLY A BAHA'i, ALHAMDULILLAH!!
I am very happy for you!
 
Old 10-13-2015, 08:47 AM   #52
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: Blue Planet
Posts: 1,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
ACHTUNG! ACHTUNG!

This is to let y'all know that on Friday 2 October 2015, I went online to the Baha'i website and declared my faith in Baha'u'llah.

I AM NOW OFFICAIALLY A BAHA'i, ALHAMDULILLAH!!
ohhhh, BIG GOOD Newssssssssss
I wish you the best in your journey of life and may you always be as blessed as now
 
Old 10-13-2015, 11:00 AM   #53
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2013
From: United States
Posts: 1,203
Joyful Being, welcome to the Baha'i Community!
 
Old 10-19-2015, 09:19 AM   #54
Junior Member
 
Joyful Being's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2015
From: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10
Talking

Thank you all so much! Becoming a Baha'i, imo, was the logical next step in my spiritual progress. I feel closer to Allah now, and, insha'Allah, will continue working on getting closer and closer to Him...and the Blessed Beauty!
 
Old 10-19-2015, 09:53 AM   #55
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2015
From: .
Posts: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
Thank you all so much! Becoming a Baha'i, imo, was the logical next step in my spiritual progress. I feel closer to Allah now, and, insha'Allah, will continue working on getting closer and closer to Him...and the Blessed Beauty!
And may the Beloved continue to bless both you and your family.
 
Old 10-19-2015, 05:32 PM   #56
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2011
From: n ireland
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niblo View Post
And may the Beloved continue to bless both you and your family.
And us all inchaAllah
 
Reply

  Baha'i Forums > Welcome > New Users

Tags
bahai, muslim



Search tags for this page
Click on a term to search for related topics.
Thread Tools
Display Modes



Facebook @bahaiforums RSS


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.