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Old 01-20-2015, 01:01 PM   #1
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I am a Muslim! - - - and a Baha'i??

As-salaamu alaikum and Alláh'u'Abhá!

I am a Muslim, but I have been reading up on the Baha'i Faith a bit. I have the Baha'i Prayer Book, using it everyday. I pray the short obligatory prayer daily and recite "Alláh'u'Abhá" on Baha'i prayer beads.

My heart believes that Baha'u'llah is the Messenger for this Age, but my head disagrees. I'm open to learn and looking forward to it!
 
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:16 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
My heart believes that Baha'u'llah is the Messenger for this Age, but my head disagrees. I'm open to learn and looking forward to it!
Welcome, Joyful Being! The heart is always a good place to start.

"Only when the lamp of search, of earnest striving, of longing desire, of passionate devotion, of fervid love, of rapture, and ecstasy, is kindled within the seeker’s heart, and the breeze of His loving-kindness is wafted upon his soul, will the darkness of error be dispelled, the mists of doubts and misgivings be dissipated, and the lights of knowledge and certitude envelop his being. At that hour will the Mystic Herald, bearing the joyful tidings of the Spirit, shine forth from the City of God resplendent as the morn, and, through the trumpet-blast of knowledge, will awaken the heart, the soul, and the spirit from the slumber of heedlessness. Then will the manifold favors and outpouring grace of the holy and everlasting Spirit confer such new life upon the seeker that he will find himself endowed with a new eye, a new ear, a new heart, and a new mind. He will contemplate the manifest signs of the universe, and will penetrate the hidden mysteries of the soul. Gazing with the eye of God, he will perceive within every atom a door that leadeth him to the stations of absolute certitude. He will discover in all things the mysteries of Divine Revelation, and the evidences of an everlasting Manifestation."
-- Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 266
 
Old 01-20-2015, 06:52 PM   #3
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Welcome friend!
 
Old 01-20-2015, 10:11 PM   #4
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Welcome Joyful being

I hope you can have good times in this forum and to tell the truth, I wish for your heart to win over your head
 
Old 01-20-2015, 11:44 PM   #5
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Welcome Joyful Being, may your Heart guide your thoughts.

As a Bahai I am a follower of all the Messengers. Thus I too accept Muhumad.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 01-21-2015, 12:28 AM   #6
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Joyful Being,

To be a muslim is to submit to the will of God and the teachings of his messengers. Therefore, if Baha'u'llah is the messenger of God for this age, as he has said and as I believe he is, then testifying to him and following him is the true test of being a muslim in this day. Once you fully understand and accept this, I think you will not be wrong to say you are a Baha'i and a muslim.

Welcome to the forum!
 
Old 01-21-2015, 08:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
As-salaamu alaikum and Alláh'u'Abhá!

I am a Muslim, but I have been reading up on the Baha'i Faith a bit. I have the Baha'i Prayer Book, using it everyday. I pray the short obligatory prayer daily and recite "Alláh'u'Abhá" on Baha'i prayer beads.

My heart believes that Baha'u'llah is the Messenger for this Age, but my head disagrees. I'm open to learn and looking forward to it!
Welcome! What a pleasant message. That's the spirit! Wherever you finally arrive, I respect you for your sincerity. There are lots of wonderful, sincere Muslims around.

gnat
 
Old 01-21-2015, 08:35 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Fadl View Post
Joyful Being,

To be a muslim is to submit to the will of God and the teachings of his messengers. Therefore, if Baha'u'llah is the messenger of God for this age, as he has said and as I believe he is, then testifying to him and following him is the true test of being a muslim in this day. Once you fully understand and accept this, I think you will not be wrong to say you are a Baha'i and a muslim.

Welcome to the forum!
I don't think that is what she said. She said intellectually she is Muslim and Muhammad is Last Prophet. By heart she loves the Most Great Beauty (Baha Husayn-Ali).

Bahaulah says "Verily thou speakest the truth. Muhammad is the Last Prophet and Messenger and anyone claiming this station after him is in manifest error. But O Seeker the Most Great Beauty is now come"

Last edited by Highheels; 01-21-2015 at 08:40 AM.
 
Old 01-21-2015, 08:58 AM   #9
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Bahaulah says "Verily thou speakest the truth. Muhammad is the Last Prophet and Messenger and anyone claiming this station after him is in manifest error. But O Seeker the Most Great Beauty is now come"
Reference, please!

gnat
 
Old 01-21-2015, 09:50 AM   #10
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Tablet to Hasan-i-Sháhábadí
 
Old 01-21-2015, 10:00 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Highheels View Post
Thanks a lot. This is terribly interesting. You seem to read the original text. I found a translation, which seems to be a provisional one. The text you refer to reads as follows in that translation:

O Hasan! Hearken unto the Call of Husayn Who hath been incarcerated in the Prison Fortress of ’Akká by reason of that which the hands of the heedless have wrought. If one were to question them, “by what reason have ye imprisoned Him?”, they would reply: “Verily, He hath come with a new Shariah and this new Shariah doth not accord with the Law under which we have been. To this matter testifieth our Book which is called the Qur’án, a Book that is from God, the Lord of all mankind. See that which the All-Merciful hath revealed therein: ‘Verily He is the Messenger of God, and the Seal of the Prophets.’”

To this We reply: “Indeed thou speaketh the truth. We do testify that through Him, Messengership and Prophethood have both been sealed and any one claiming after Him this most exalted station is in manifest error. Nevertheless, O Questioner! Hearken unto My voice which sayeth: “Open thine eyes that thou mayest behold the Most Great Beauty, through Whom speaketh the Lord of divine decree. By God! Through Him the ‘Hour’ hath appeared, and the ‘Resurrection’ hath come to pass, and the ‘Moon’hath been cleft asunder and thou wouldst behold all in a ‘continuing Regeneration’ if thou be of them that possess insight.

“Verily, through His Advent hath come to be fulfilled the Advent about which glad tidings have been given by the Messengers of God from all eternity and there hath come to pass about which God hath revealed in the Qur’án: ‘On that Day they shall all rise before the Lord of mankind.’ Truly the Cycle of Prophethood hath been rolled up and He Who hath sent down the Prophets hath come, arrayed with a manifest and perspicuous sovereignty.


gnat
 
Old 01-21-2015, 10:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highheels View Post
I don't think that is what she said. She said intellectually she is Muslim and Muhammad is Last Prophet. By heart she loves the Most Great Beauty (Baha Husayn-Ali).

Bahaulah says "Verily thou speakest the truth. Muhammad is the Last Prophet and Messenger and anyone claiming this station after him is in manifest error. But O Seeker the Most Great Beauty is now come"
Thank you for the Tablet, a provisional Translation.

From how I read it Fadl's comments are correct.

The age of Prophesy was sealed by Muhummad. The age of Fulfillment brought by The Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Baha'u'llah sent all the Prophets in the cycle of Prophesy. Now is the time to accept Baha'u'llah.

God bless and regards Tony
 
Old 01-21-2015, 10:04 AM   #13
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Terribly interesting is right
 
Old 01-21-2015, 10:10 AM   #14
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Terribly interesting is right
Highheels,

You sweep the floor with most of those present, when it comes to being well-read in our writings. I'm amazed.

gnat
 
Old 01-21-2015, 10:25 AM   #15
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Baha'u'llah says "Verily thou speakest the truth. Muhammad is the Last Prophet and Messenger and anyone claiming this station after him is in manifest error. But O Seeker the Most Great Beauty is now come"
Yes, true. Muhammad was the last prophet of the prophetic cycle, and there never will be another because that cycle has now ended. The Bab and Baha'u'llah have begun the cycle of fulfillment; a cycle that will last at least 500,000 years.


"Only those who are willing to associate the Revelation proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh with the consummation of so stupendous an evolution in the collective life of the whole human race can grasp the significance of the words which He, while alluding to the glories of this promised Day and to the duration of the Bahá’í Era, has deemed fit to utter. “This is the King of Days,” He exclaims, “the Day that hath seen the coming of the Best-Beloved, Him Who, through all eternity, hath been acclaimed the Desire of the World.” “The Scriptures of past Dispensations,” He further asserts, “celebrate the great jubilee that must needs greet this most great Day of God. Well is it with him that hath lived to see this Day and hath recognized its station.” “It is evident,” He, in another passage explains, “that every age in which a Manifestation of God hath lived is divinely-ordained, and may, in a sense, be characterized as God’s appointed Day. This Day, however, is unique, and is to be distinguished from those that have preceded it. The designation ‘Seal of the Prophets’ fully revealeth its high station."

"The Prophetic Cycle hath verily ended. The Eternal Truth is now come. He hath lifted up the ensign of power, and is now shedding upon the world the unclouded splendor of His Revelation.” “In this most mighty Revelation,” He, in categorical language, declares, “all the Dispensations of the past have attained their highest, their final consummation. That which hath been made manifest in this préeminent, this most exalted Revelation, standeth unparalleled in the annals of the past, nor will future ages witness its like.” -Shoghi Effendi, WOB, pp 166-167
 
Old 01-21-2015, 11:03 AM   #16
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"The Prophetic Cycle hath verily ended. The Eternal Truth is now come. He hath lifted up the ensign of power, and is now shedding upon the world the unclouded splendor of His Revelation.” “In this most mighty Revelation,” He, in categorical language, declares, “all the Dispensations of the past have attained their highest, their final consummation. That which hath been made manifest in this préeminent, this most exalted Revelation, standeth unparalleled in the annals of the past, nor will future ages witness its like.” -Shoghi Effendi, WOB, pp 166-167
How fascinating that, after thirty-odd years as a Bahá'í, and actually having translated that book by the Guardian, I only now have grasped that fact, thanks to Highheels comment.

gnat
 
Old 01-21-2015, 11:46 AM   #17
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How fascinating that, after thirty-odd years as a Bahá'í, and actually having translated that book by the Guardian, I only now have grasped that fact, thanks to Highheels comment.

That is a valuable insight. The fact that we will eternally learn and understand more and more, with always a point of 'more' ahead, is both humbling and exciting.
 
Old 01-21-2015, 12:42 PM   #18
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WOWWWWW!! I am overwhelmed by your replies! THANK YOU!!

I find it impossible to believe that after Mohammed, there will be no more Prophets, Messengers, whatever. I can't believe that Allah will let us hang for thousands (millions?) of years without further guidance. It's so obvious that He has sent Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and countless others we know not their names all over the world, to guide us to Him. I will continue to read up on the Baha'i Faith online, but as soon as I get an income, I'll buy more Baha'i - and Islamic! - books.

Btw, I love the Baha'i prayer book! I feel as though I'm really connecting to Allah! It's as though He has given us these prayers from His own lips so we can recite words that He would like to hear -- in addition to our own heartfelt words.

To whomever started this Forum: THANK YOU! XoXoXoXo!
 
Old 01-21-2015, 01:16 PM   #19
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I find it impossible to believe that after Mohammed, there will be no more Prophets, Messengers, whatever. I can't believe that Allah will let us hang for thousands (millions?) of years without further guidance. It's so obvious that He has sent Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and countless others we know not their names all over the world, to guide us to Him
The Baha'i Writings do not say that there will be no more Messengers, in fact, the exact opposite. In my understanding of the point raised, Baha'u'llah was saying that no more Manifestations after Muhammad would appear in the prophetic cycle, because Baha'u'llah Himself had now inaugurated the cycle of fulfillment.

Baha'u'llah said that a new Manifestation would appear every 1,000 years, or so, and that this would continue for as long as there are people on the earth. Abdu'l-Baha said that this 'cycle of fulfillment' would last for at least 500,000 years, but new Manifestations would continue to appear to update and reveal new laws and new guidance from God.

After the cycle of fulfillment is completed, then a brand new new cycle will commence. Who could possibly envision what that might be? Interplanetary unity? Mind-boggling.

The Bab expained it this way:

"It is clear and evident that the object of all preceding Dispensations hath been to pave the way for the advent of Muhammad, the Apostle of God. These, including the Muhammadan Dispensation, have had, in their turn, as their objective the Revelation proclaimed by the Qá'im (The Bab) The purpose underlying this Revelation, as well as those that preceded it, has, in like manner, been to announce the advent of the Faith of Him Whom God will make manifest (Baha'u'llah) And this Faith -- the Faith of Him Whom God will make manifest -- in its turn, together with all the Revelations gone before it, have as their object the Manifestation destined to succeed it. And the latter, no less than all the Revelations preceding it, prepare the way for the Revelation which is yet to follow. The process of the rise and setting of the Sun of Truth will thus indefinitely continue -- a process that hath had no beginning and will have no end."

- Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p 105

Last edited by Josh; 01-21-2015 at 01:38 PM.
 
Old 01-21-2015, 01:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
WOWWWWW!! I am overwhelmed by your replies! THANK YOU!!

I find it impossible to believe that after Mohammed, there will be no more Prophets, Messengers, whatever. I can't believe that Allah will let us hang for thousands (millions?) of years without further guidance. It's so obvious that He has sent Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and countless others we know not their names all over the world, to guide us to Him. I will continue to read up on the Baha'i Faith online, but as soon as I get an income, I'll buy more Baha'i - and Islamic! - books.

Btw, I love the Baha'i prayer book! I feel as though I'm really connecting to Allah! It's as though He has given us these prayers from His own lips so we can recite words that He would like to hear -- in addition to our own heartfelt words.

To whomever started this Forum: THANK YOU! XoXoXoXo!
Dear little sister, welcome home at last. We are all Muslim Bahais for Baha'is are bound to accept the message of Mohammad,peace be upon him. I agree with you about our prayers, they are extraordinarily beautiful and a prayer can be found for every occasion. May you grow here along with us
 
Old 01-21-2015, 04:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Josh View Post
Yes, true. Muhammad was the last prophet of the prophetic cycle, and there never will be another because that cycle has now ended. The Bab and Baha'u'llah have begun the cycle of fulfillment; a cycle that will last at least 500,000 years.


"Only those who are willing to associate the Revelation proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh with the consummation of so stupendous an evolution in the collective life of the whole human race can grasp the significance of the words which He, while alluding to the glories of this promised Day and to the duration of the Bahá’í Era, has deemed fit to utter. “This is the King of Days,” He exclaims, “the Day that hath seen the coming of the Best-Beloved, Him Who, through all eternity, hath been acclaimed the Desire of the World.” “The Scriptures of past Dispensations,” He further asserts, “celebrate the great jubilee that must needs greet this most great Day of God. Well is it with him that hath lived to see this Day and hath recognized its station.” “It is evident,” He, in another passage explains, “that every age in which a Manifestation of God hath lived is divinely-ordained, and may, in a sense, be characterized as God’s appointed Day. This Day, however, is unique, and is to be distinguished from those that have preceded it. The designation ‘Seal of the Prophets’ fully revealeth its high station."

"The Prophetic Cycle hath verily ended. The Eternal Truth is now come. He hath lifted up the ensign of power, and is now shedding upon the world the unclouded splendor of His Revelation.” “In this most mighty Revelation,” He, in categorical language, declares, “all the Dispensations of the past have attained their highest, their final consummation. That which hath been made manifest in this préeminent, this most exalted Revelation, standeth unparalleled in the annals of the past, nor will future ages witness its like.” -Shoghi Effendi, WOB, pp 166-167
Regardless of what you want to call Baha'u'llah, messenger, prophet, manifestation, etc., to recognize him is to recognize God. To obey him, is to obey God, to submit to him is to submit to God. That is what a muslim is, one who submits to God. A person who does not submit to a messenger of God cannot be a muslim.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 04:28 AM   #22
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House of Worship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
As-salaamu alaikum and Alláh'u'Abhá!

I am a Muslim, but I have been reading up on the Baha'i Faith a bit. I have the Baha'i Prayer Book, using it everyday. I pray the short obligatory prayer daily and recite "Alláh'u'Abhá" on Baha'i prayer beads.

My heart believes that Baha'u'llah is the Messenger for this Age, but my head disagrees. I'm open to learn and looking forward to it!
Dear friend,

. I see you are from Chicago. Have you visited the Baha'i House of Worship in Wilmette yet?
 
Old 01-22-2015, 09:21 AM   #23
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Talking about Islam and Christianity, these are fascinating times. We are united when it comes to the core of religion. As a Bahá'í, am awestruck by the courage and sincerity of the present Pope and the Ayatollah Abdol-Hamid Masoumi-Tehrani.

Although we belong to different faiths, I can feel a strong love for those persons, strongly feeling that, in essence, we are of the same Faith.

gnat
 
Old 01-22-2015, 12:26 PM   #24
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A Manifest Mistake regarding Khatam-un-Nabiyeen

I will show, in subsequent posts, even Prophet Muhammad (sws) himself stated that prophets can come after him. I will show, and give the reference, that his wife, Hazrat Ayesha, razi allaho anha (May Allah be pleased with her) stated, "Say that Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets, but do not say that he is the LAST prophet."

I will show that mujjadids (reformers), and saints and learned people of Islam clearly knew that the Qur'an was not referring to Muhammad (sws) as last in point of time, and that what Qur'an was saying was that anyone coming after Muhammad would have to BEAR HIS SEAL, that is, be a Muslim. The door of prophethood was left wide open. Just as Moses, a Law-bearing Prophet, was succeeded by prophets, so to has been the case with Rasoolulah, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam.

This is a VERY touchy subject which, depending on what country one resides in, could get one killed in a heartbeat. Pakistan is one such country where, even if you prove, using the Arabic language, sayings of Muhammad himself, sayings of his wives, sayings of his sahaba (companions), sayings of the mujjadids, and sayings of the learned saints and luminaries of Islam, you will be MURDERED if you dare state what Muslims knew for centuries, before they became corrupted by their priests: that Prophets can and WILL (and have) come after Muhammad.

There is no inherent honor in being "last." In fact, it is actually a DISHONOR to the Holy Name of Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam, to claim that his spiritual light was so dim (astagfirullah) that no one coming after him could be a prophet, EVEN THOUGH prophets appeared after Hazrat Musa (Moses), alaihe salaam.

The Muslims have made a HUGE mistake. And the reason, in part, is that they have virtually worshipped Prophet Muhammad, instead of reserving ALL worship for Almighty Allah.

In our own time, there have been FOUR prophets of Allah that have appeared on this earth, all of whom were Muslims, two of which (the Bab & Bahaullah), their followers claim, brought their own religion.

If the spiritual life had been sucked out of Islam; if the light of Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam, was so dim, then WHO IS BAHAULLAH? Bahaullah, before he made any claim, was a MUSLIM. The Bab, before he made any claim, was a MUSLIM. And, although one might try to ignore the connection between both of them and their identity as Muslims, this cannot be possible. They received their Light through their love of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam; through their submission [ISLAM] to Almighty Allah; and through their TAQWA (Righteousness).

By submitting to Almighty Allah, and by following Allah's Messenger, they were gifted with Prophethood [or Baha'is would prefer to use the word, "Manifestation," although I know that they see a Manifestation as something different than a Prophet].

It's semantics. Because, The Bab did not come out of Christianity, or Sanatana Dharma ("Hinduism"), or Judaism, or out of any other religion. That is because no other religion had the spiritual "juice" that would allow for them to be elevated to the rank of Prophethood. ONLY Islam had (has) that, and that's why FOUR Prophets, in our age, have appeared, all of them from Islam.

I will begin my next post with verses of the Qur'an that show that Prophets can, and will, come after Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam. And they are not VAGUE verses. One verse in particular is very explicit and clear.

I do not know if I will provide the information tonight or tomorrow or the next day, but I will provide it. And, please, just take it as LEARNING, not as my attempt to crush anybody's beliefs. It is a PERSPECTIVE, but it is based on very, very solid ground, from the Qur'an itself, to the sayings of Prophet Muhammad, to a saying of HIS WIFE, and to the sayings of many of the learned and spiritual Muslims throughout the centuries, until, unfortunately, the Muslim world fell into darkness, led there by ignorant Muslim mullahs.

Last edited by Dennis King; 01-22-2015 at 12:30 PM.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 01:52 PM   #25
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Qur'an on Continued Prophethood; The Current State of the Muslim World

Peace,

First of all, let it be understood that the Light of Islam STILL shines, and it shines very brightly in at least one global Islamic movement that has ONE leader who, along with the members of that community, offer the sweet and spiritually satisfying treasures that were brought by Rasoolulah (the Messenger of Allah, i.e., Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam) 1400 years ago. But more about that later, Insha Allah.

If I mention the title of any spiritual person, I will mention it as their followers mention it, out of respect for THEIR beliefs regarding that individual. So, if I say, "The Promised One," after Bahaullah's name, it will not necessarily be because I view him as "The Promised One." It will be out of respect for his followers, who hold him in that high status. First, Qur'an:

"O children of Adam! if Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an, Suratul Araf, Iyyat 36).

This verse is an explicitly clear statement, by Almighty God, that Messengers CAN come. Had that not been the case, then the statement might have read, "Oh children of Adam! THIS IS IT!! No more Messengers." I'll get to the Khatam-un-Nabiyeen verse later.

Note also that the above verse is an ORDER, from God to INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS, stating that it is THEIR responsibility [not the Pope's; not the Khalifa's; not the UHJs] to determine, FOR THEMSELVES, whether or not someone is a Prophet or not. And each human being ["...children of Adam"] must based his decision on whether or not the person in question has rehearsed the Signs of Allah. Again: It's up to each INDIVIDUAL, not a religious authority.

Now, since I'm no Arabic scholar, I will offer tafsir (commentary of Qur'anic verses) that is provided, online, by the Ahmadiyya Community, specifically, by its second leader, Hazrat Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad, from his "Tafsir Kabir."

Well, not now. Gotta go. Be back later with the tafsir to the above verse, which will elaborate.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 06:20 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Dennis King View Post
Peace,

First of all, let it be understood that the Light of Islam STILL shines, and it shines very brightly in at least one global Islamic movement that has ONE leader who, along with the members of that community, offer the sweet and spiritually satisfying treasures that were brought by Rasoolulah (the Messenger of Allah, i.e., Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam) 1400 years ago. But more about that later, Insha Allah.

If I mention the title of any spiritual person, I will mention it as their followers mention it, out of respect for THEIR beliefs regarding that individual. So, if I say, "The Promised One," after Bahaullah's name, it will not necessarily be because I view him as "The Promised One." It will be out of respect for his followers, who hold him in that high status. First, Qur'an:

"O children of Adam! if Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an, Suratul Araf, Iyyat 36).

This verse is an explicitly clear statement, by Almighty God, that Messengers CAN come. Had that not been the case, then the statement might have read, "Oh children of Adam! THIS IS IT!! No more Messengers." I'll get to the Khatam-un-Nabiyeen verse later.

Note also that the above verse is an ORDER, from God to INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS, stating that it is THEIR responsibility [not the Pope's; not the Khalifa's; not the UHJs] to determine, FOR THEMSELVES, whether or not someone is a Prophet or not. And each human being ["...children of Adam"] must based his decision on whether or not the person in question has rehearsed the Signs of Allah. Again: It's up to each INDIVIDUAL, not a religious authority.

Now, since I'm no Arabic scholar, I will offer tafsir (commentary of Qur'anic verses) that is provided, online, by the Ahmadiyya Community, specifically, by its second leader, Hazrat Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad, from his "Tafsir Kabir."

Well, not now. Gotta go. Be back later with the tafsir to the above verse, which will elaborate.
Darrick,

Have you now become Ahmadiyyiah? What about Daheshism?

Cheers
 
Old 01-23-2015, 05:59 AM   #27
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To Joyful Being (Principally)

Salaam, Joyful Being,

You have done something VERY interesting, and it is the same thing that I have tried to do: LISTEN TO ALLAH, who said,

"O children of Adam! if Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an, Suratul Araf, Iyyat 36).

But I hope you know what it means. What it MEANS is that you REALLY DO listen to Allah, and not some mullah; not the Universal House of Justice; not a Khalifa, or anyone else. You have decided to listen to Almighty Allah.

You ALREADY know what to do: Listen to Allah. And you DID it. But!! Unless you're an old cantankerous person like me, who could care less what others say, you must be prepared to encounter OPPOSITION to your thoughts--even in the "open" Baha'i Faith. Oh, yes!

Their Universal House of Justice "ruled" that a Prophet of God, Muhammad Subuh Sumohadiwijojo, also known as "Bapak," should NOT be followed. Of course, I admit that "Bapak" (the affectionate name that Subud members call him) never claimed to be a Prophet. There ARE Prophets, I believe, that make no claims. But, he DID, in a HUGE manner, "rehearse the Signs of Allah" by receiving, from Allah, the latihan kejiwaan of Subud, and by having the gift, from Almighty Allah, to revive that spiritual power within any human being that wants it.

The latihan actually wakes me up, in the middle of the night, for the Islamic Tahujjid prayer. It vibrates in my chest. So, that is a POWERFUL Sign of Allah that Bapak rehearsed, and that is rehearsed by Subud people all over the planet. It's definitely from Allah, because what gift that would wake an individual up to PRAY could be from Shaitan? By the way, Subud people are composed of Catholics, Jews, MUSLIMS, BAHA'IS (although they keep quiet about it), Baptists, Christians, etc., etc., as anyone can be opened in the latihan. It is a gift for all humanity, regardless of religion.

Yet, the Universal House of Justice ruled that Baha'is can't join Subud. This is the SAME thing that many mullahs in the sunni Muslim world have done with regard to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Promised Messiah & Mahdi [again, I use that title out of respect for Ahmadi belief], whom they declare to be an "infidel."

The Shia mullahs did the SAME THING against Bahaullah, The Promised One, by declaring Bahaullah an infidel. I hope you get my point.

YOU have made your decision, and you need NO confirmation from Baha'is or me or the Universal House of Justice or the Khalifa of Islam.

Here's another interesting thing: Although Ahmadis are peaceful, like Baha'is, THEY TOO have declared Bahaullah, The Promised One, to be false! LOL!!

So, I hope you get my point. There is a practical issue that you will have to face, especially if you're young.

How will you tell others of your views? WILL you tell others of your views? What if, for instance, you discovered that Bapak was true? [HE WAS, and you'd experience that in the latihan]. Will you tell your Baha'i brothers and sisters that you attend the congregational latihan that is held in Evanston, where there is NO preacher, no preaching; where people just stand up and let their own, individual latihan guide them through whatever movements (or no movement) that the latihan, which is Ruh-ul-Quddus (The Holy Spirit) inside of them, guides them to do for their own spiritual purification? Will you feel COMFORTABLE telling Baha'is, or your Muslim brothers, that you have been opened in the latihan? I'm just using this as an example.

This is REAL STUFF you need to think about. Of course, if you're a private person, who does not concern herself with what others say, or if you're like me--too old to give a damn what others say--then you're fine.

Here are the FOUR men that, in this age, have appeared AS PROPHETS. Only one of them never declared to be a Prophet, and that one is Muhammad Subuh Sumohadiwijojo, the founder of Subud:

The Bab
Bahaullah
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
Muhammad Subuh Sumohadiwijojo (Bapak)

If I were an Ahmadi, I would NEVER tell ANY Ahmadi that I had accepted Bapak as a Prophet of Allah. I just wouldn't. Not because he'd do anything. But just because I'd want to avoid telling him a warm place that you can go.

In truth, sister, human beings--ESPECIALLY religious human beings--are not, generally, capable of thinking in non-linear, non-exclusive terms, PERIOD. They want everything in a neat package. They can't STAND nuance; They PREFER limitation; and the won't even let God be God!!

They impose upon God LIMITATIONS, yet claim that they believe in his Qayuum (Power). Each group will think, "My guy's the ONLY guy now," i.e., his Prophet is the only one.

While Baha'is may CLAIM that they accept ALL the Prophets, that is NOT so. Not in practice. Now, I will amend that. I have met ONE Baha'i sister--an Iranian, who knows the Persian language, tell me that Hazrat Ahmad was DEFINITELY a prophet. She is the ONLY Baha'i that would admit to that, but that was because she knows the Persian language and is better capable of reading and understanding the words of Bahaullah in Persian than Baha'i converts. Everyone else has to write the UHJ, rather than do as Qur'an said:

"O children of Adam! if Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an, Suratul Araf, Iyyat 36).

I kind of got off track. I was going to supply you with sayings of Muhammad, Aisha, mujjadids, etc., regarding this issue of Khatam. And I can still do that.

But, I feel, at this moment, that what is more important is that you have a CLEAR understanding of the REALITY OF HOW RELIGIOUS PEOPLE THINK, so you won't get bitten when someone tells you that Bahaullah is "false," or Bapak is false, or Hazrat Ahmad is false. It is for YOU, and no one else, to decide. One way is to study hard--do your OWN research, and make your OWN decision.

By the way, I would encourage you to check out Subud, since you are an open person who has no problem accepting Bahaullah AND Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam. Why stop there?

I would also advise you to study the literature of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, and FORGET about what its detractors say. Your spiritual life is YOUR spiritual life. And Allah has addressed YOU, Oh child of Adam, directly, stating that when Messengers appear rehearsing Allah's Signs, than YOU must accept that Messenger, and get the full Blessings.

God's bounties are LIMITLESS. And, in his sending the latihan kejiwaan, for example, he has sent one of the greatest bounties.

With regard to Ahmadiyyat, I would like to recommend that you view the weekly khutbahs (sermons) of the current Khalifa of the Ahmadiyya Community, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, Khalifatul Masih V (Fifth Successor of The Messiah).

You can see it here: https://www.alislam.org/friday-sermon/2015-01-23.html

At the moment, it's not up because the khutbah is probably in progress. But, after it's up, you can go there. When you go there, first choose the LANGUAGE you wish to hear the khutbah in. THEN click the start button. It might stop again. Just click the start button again, and you can hear his khutbah.

Baha'is here, of course, can direct you to whatever they have, resource-wise, that will be spiritually fulfilling to you.

I will say this about Baha'is: 99% of Baha'is are not combative. They REALLY live up to their reputation as the "gentle Baha'is." But!! There ARE some, particularly the ones who became Baha'is when they were young, during the 1970s, that enjoy talking about "Covenant Breakers," but they are dying out (no offense to anyone intended. I'm dying out too!! :-)

You are FREE!!! La ikra hafideen, which means, There is no compulsion in religion. You are FREE. If you find someone, tomorrow, who rehearses the Signs of Allah to YOUR satisfaction, then accept him. PERIOD. It's YOUR life. No Baha'i; no Ahmadi; no Subud member; no Sunni; no Shia is going to stand with you, on the Day of Judgement (if such a "day" exists), before Allah.

So, the answer to your question has already been answered in Qur'an: You CAN, SHOULD, AND MUST accept ANY AND ALL of Allah's Messengers, no matter what ANYBODY ELSE says, whether it be an individual or some institution. Remember what it says in Qur'an: That there are Messengers of Allah that are MENTIONED in Qur'an. And there are Messengers of Allah that are NOT mentioned. We must accept them ALL, without ASKING some institution that deems itself as having "authority." There is ONE authority: ALLAH.

Last edited by Dennis King; 01-23-2015 at 06:41 AM.
 
Old 01-23-2015, 06:33 AM   #28
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Addendum to joyful being (principally)

Salaam, sister,

The khutbah of the current Khalifa is now up. But they don't have all the languages up yet. They just have the Urdu and German translations up. These are videos of him giving the sermon, and a translator translates.

If you speak English, you'll have to wait a while. Sometimes it takes them a couple of days to get the English translation up. But, here it is again, for your convenience:

https://www.alislam.org/friday-sermon/2015-01-23.html

And to someone who asked me if I have joined Ahmadiyyat, I think, from my previous post, you can see that it DOESN'T MATTER, which is my point to sister Joyful Being. I have accepted ALL Prophets that I have identified as having rehearsed the Signs of Allah. It's really very simple.

I'll let YOU guess if I have "joined" Ahmadiyyat :-)
 
Old 01-23-2015, 06:55 AM   #29
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"My heart believes that Baha'u'llah is the Messenger..."

"My heart believes that Baha'u'llah is the Messenger for this Age, but my head disagrees."

FORGET your head!! Just get rid of linear thinking, that's all. GO WITH YOUR HEART. Did you know that your heart contains MORE brain cells than the brain [something like that]. There's an institute called Heart something or other (can't remember the name). They do amazing research.

If you attend the mosque, just keep your mouth shut, that's all, about Bahaullah, and have the JOY, in your own heart, that YOU have accepted Allah's Messenger "for this age," if you believe that he's THE Messenger for this age. You don't have to shout it to the high heavens, unless your heart causes you to strongly feel to share with others. That, of course, is up to you. MY heart, though, AIN'T that big. I'm just SAYING.

Allah speaks to us, sister, not just to Prophets. Allah speaks to your heart.
 
Old 01-23-2015, 07:03 AM   #30
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Marriage...

Oh, this is very important! If you are not married, and you ever get interested in a Baha'i, I can testify that that Baha'i will, without any doubt, accept your acceptance of Bapak, or Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam, or EVEN HAZRAT AHMAD.

My experience is that, in a Baha'is private life, they are NO DIFFERENT than anyone else: they keep their PRIVATE lives to themselves. So, although the UHJ might make a "ruling," IN PRACTICE I have found that Baha'is will quietly do what their hearts tell them to do, and not make a fuss.

IN FACT, in terms of being open to other religions, your BEST shot is with a Baha'i. That's REAL. I'm telling you, sister, that's real.

If you're already married, then you're lucky to have an open-minded mate. But, if you're NOT, you could not find better than a Baha'i. I'm telling you. Of course, Baha'is ain't perfect, as human beings, necessarily. But your chances of finding a more open-minded mate are GREATLY improved in the Baha'i Faith, which does accept all of the religions as from Allah.

I'm married [SHUX!] And my wife won't let me have an additional wife, OTHERWISE.... (Just kidding...I think) I'm too old, too, although I am in VERY GOOD SHAPE, as I exercise daily.

Anyway, if you're not married, TRY BAHA'I
 
Old 01-23-2015, 07:51 AM   #31
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The reference stuff...

Greetings all,

I decided that, rather than submit 25 posts, I'll just give you online references that you can use to further study the issue of Khatam-un-Nabiyeen (Seal of the Prophets), and learn the ORIGINAL, and true understanding. I'm leaving it up to people to follow these links themselves.

But first, here is where you can read the Arabic, English translation, and Commentary (Commentary No. 936) of verse 36 of the chapter, Al-Araf, of the Qur'an):

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafsee...n=E1&CR=EN,E2d

The following verse is the one, in Qur'an, that directly mentions "Seal":

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah has full knowledge of all things." (Qur'an, Suratul Ahzab, Iyyat 41).

Here is the link where you can study the original Arabic, English translation, and extensive tafsir (commentary) on that verse.

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafsee...EN,E2&CR=EN,E2

In this case, though, I suggest that you fist attempt to understand what is being said in the "Important Words" section of that page. Then, after that, read the extensive Commentary.

Now, as regards sayings of Muhammad (such as his saying, "If my son, Ibrahim, had lived, he would have been a Prophet"), you can study the various links provided at this page:

Finality of Prophethood - Khatam-e-Nabuwwat

Look through the titles of those links and pick the one that sounds most interesting to you, or, if you have time, get through all of them. That is your choice, of course.

From that page, the following link is VERY, very interesting, although all of the links are interesting:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books...20080611MN.pdf

That's it. You have more than enough to understand this particular concept of Khatam. But, I'll summarize:

1. Prophets CAN and WILL come after Prophet Muhammad

2. The word "Khatam" does not ONLY mean last. In the context of that verse, the traditionally accepted meaning, as you will discover, was that Khatam meant SEAL, meaning that a Prophet after Muhammad could come ONLY if he were a Muslim. Bahaullah was a Muslim. The Bab was a Muslim. Hazrat Ahmad was a Muslim. Bapak was a Muslim. ONLY Muslims, in this era (FOUR of them) have been elevated, by Allah, as Prophets, and this demonstrates the truth of the traditionally accepted meaning of Khatam (Seal)

3. Muslims became CORRUPT, and they corrupted the meaning of Seal of the Prophets. They began to virtually worship Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam.

4. When the Christians began to be more and more powerful, globally, the notion of being "last" became sanctified in Muslim minds. They saw Christian power, and that Christians had defined Jesus as IT. This thinking helped to corrupt the minds of the Muslims. In other words, their self-esteem became lowered, and they sought to feel better about themselves. If Jesus was last, then SO TO WAS MUHAMMAD. I have no time to trace, here, the development of this thinking, but that's PRECISELY what happened.

5. There is NO special status in being last.

6. To deny that prophets can come after Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam, is to state that his spiritual light was SO dim that no one coming after him could attain the status of Prophet. This thinking was NOT the original thinking, as you will see when you read the sayings of various mujjadids (reformers), saints, and learned divines of Islam throughout the centuries.

7. To deny that prophets can come after Prophet Muhammad is to attempt to place a MUZZLE on Allah, an attempt that I DO NOT SUGGEST that anybody make.

Selah [Anybody know what "Selah" means? I don't. It just sounds good].

Okay, I'm done with this topic. Bottom line: FOLLOW YOUR HEART. Use your INTUITION. Use your brain a little bit also.

Last edited by Dennis King; 01-23-2015 at 08:09 AM.
 
Old 01-23-2015, 01:18 PM   #32
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Talking WOW to Dennis King!

Keep writing posts like that, eh! I sure do appreciate them!

Btw, I'm a 59 y.o. post-menopausal VEGetariAN heavily-tattooed divorced woman who thinks she's eternally 18. I have "marched to the beat of a different drummer" all my life. I could go on and on about the things I've done that caused people to look down on me, ridicule and shun me. F 'em. I think for myself. I'm making myself happy -- but NOT resorting to drugs, booze or harming anyone.

Marriage again? I'm open, but it's almost impossible to find someone like-minded. A Muslim man would probably not marry me for my Baha'i beliefs, so I agree with you that marrying a Baha'i would be best. When I converted to Islam, *I* chose to change my name legally to my adopted Muslim name. A few Muslims poo-pooed me for that saying I should've kept my Dad's surname. They didn't respond when I mentioned Cassius Clay/Muhammed Ali, Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam or Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabar.

I'm doing my best to listen to **ALLAH**. I don't care to read about the alleged wrongs of other religions; there are plenty of naysayers out there always badmouthing people/religions that they don't truly know/understand. I'll think for myself, thank you.

QUESTION: I read in the Qur'an and a few hadith that post-menopausal women do NOT need to cover their head. (I cover and dress modestly. Hijab is not a *scarf*, it's the Islamic dress code.) Is this true? I tried asking around, but I was told to just keep covered. I don't mind covering, but do I really have to? Is there a non-sexist Muslim scholar I can ask?? Hmmm....

YES!! I have visited the Baha'i House of Worship in Wilmette many times. I love it! I still have no job or income so I can't go anywhere or buy anything. Insha'Allah, someday soon I'll have an income. At least I'm housed and fed.



 
Old 01-23-2015, 02:20 PM   #33
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
Keep writing posts like that, eh! I sure do appreciate them!

Btw, I'm a 59 y.o. post-menopausal VEGetariAN heavily-tattooed divorced woman who thinks she's eternally 18. I have "marched to the beat of a different drummer" all my life. I could go on and on about the things I've done that caused people to look down on me, ridicule and shun me. F 'em. I think for myself. I'm making myself happy -- but NOT resorting to drugs, booze or harming anyone.

Marriage again? I'm open, but it's almost impossible to find someone like-minded. A Muslim man would probably not marry me for my Baha'i beliefs, so I agree with you that marrying a Baha'i would be best. When I converted to Islam, *I* chose to change my name legally to my adopted Muslim name. A few Muslims poo-pooed me for that saying I should've kept my Dad's surname. They didn't respond when I mentioned Cassius Clay/Muhammed Ali, Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam or Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabar.

I'm doing my best to listen to **ALLAH**. I don't care to read about the alleged wrongs of other religions; there are plenty of naysayers out there always badmouthing people/religions that they don't truly know/understand. I'll think for myself, thank you.

QUESTION: I read in the Qur'an and a few hadith that post-menopausal women do NOT need to cover their head. (I cover and dress modestly. Hijab is not a *scarf*, it's the Islamic dress code.) Is this true? I tried asking around, but I was told to just keep covered. I don't mind covering, but do I really have to? Is there a non-sexist Muslim scholar I can ask?? Hmmm....

YES!! I have visited the Baha'i House of Worship in Wilmette many times. I love it! I still have no job or income so I can't go anywhere or buy anything. Insha'Allah, someday soon I'll have an income. At least I'm housed and fed.



You sound amazing, a woman I'd love to meet. Pity we live opposite sides of the pond
 
Old 01-23-2015, 06:39 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
Keep writing posts like that, eh! I sure do appreciate them!

Btw, I'm a 59 y.o. post-menopausal VEGetariAN heavily-tattooed divorced woman who thinks she's eternally 18. I have "marched to the beat of a different drummer" all my life. I could go on and on about the things I've done that caused people to look down on me, ridicule and shun me. F 'em. I think for myself. I'm making myself happy -- but NOT resorting to drugs, booze or harming anyone.

Marriage again? I'm open, but it's almost impossible to find someone like-minded. A Muslim man would probably not marry me for my Baha'i beliefs, so I agree with you that marrying a Baha'i would be best. When I converted to Islam, *I* chose to change my name legally to my adopted Muslim name. A few Muslims poo-pooed me for that saying I should've kept my Dad's surname. They didn't respond when I mentioned Cassius Clay/Muhammed Ali, Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam or Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabar.

I'm doing my best to listen to **ALLAH**. I don't care to read about the alleged wrongs of other religions; there are plenty of naysayers out there always badmouthing people/religions that they don't truly know/understand. I'll think for myself, thank you.

QUESTION: I read in the Qur'an and a few hadith that post-menopausal women do NOT need to cover their head. (I cover and dress modestly. Hijab is not a *scarf*, it's the Islamic dress code.) Is this true? I tried asking around, but I was told to just keep covered. I don't mind covering, but do I really have to? Is there a non-sexist Muslim scholar I can ask?? Hmmm....

YES!! I have visited the Baha'i House of Worship in Wilmette many times. I love it! I still have no job or income so I can't go anywhere or buy anything. Insha'Allah, someday soon I'll have an income. At least I'm housed and fed.



Okay, I'm filing for divorce FIRST thing Monday morning. So, give me your address, email, phone number...JUST KIDDING!!!!!!

59? You're still YOUNG!! I'm 64, and I do Yoga, every other day, without fail, and I'm in EXCELLENT shape, except that...ahem...Let's see...How can I say this ISLAMICALLY...Well, I have all but lost certain IMPORTANT life energies [important to ME, anyway] that men are NOT happy (believe me!!!) to lose. And I was told, years ago, by my best Muslim friend, who got there before I did, "Well, brother, it won't be long..." I think that he was just BRAINWASHING ME [it worked!!] to help me stay out of trouble. My Muslim "brother" (Yeah, right!) Because as SOON as I reached that age, I was DONE. Of course, my sister-in-law told me [much to the chagrin of my brother], that the men in our family, "peter out" at that age. I'm fairly certain that my big brother DID NOT want her to give that information out.

But, I was able to pump out four children, all of whom are successful, and three of whom are firmly on the road of righteousness. Not sure if I had a single thing to do with it, quite frankly, so, as such, I give all praise to Allah alone.

Yes, that's my understanding too about covering the head. But, it's been my experience, in listening to Muslim sisters over the years, that, even when they get older, there are two reasons that they continue to observe the dress codes:

1. They like it [that's what I've been told]
2. They want to be an example for the younger sisters.

I would GUESS, though, that you PROBABLY are very pleasing to the eye [May Allah forgive me (or not) if it was inappropriate for me to say that], AND, as such, might probably wish to continue observing the dress code, so that you won't be responsible for leading us weak men into temptation (or worse--but not with YOU, of course).

You're 59. And folks out of our era, regardless of their belief system, ALL think that they're eternally 18. We're that so-called "Baby-Boomer" group that "saved the world," though the world never ASKED us to save it. We never prepared for retirement (many of us); we never believed that we would get older [and we still don't! I"m like you. I'm 18].

Hey, seriously, when I run up a flight of stairs to get to the "L" platform, in Chicago, the YOUNG dudes get half-way up and start PANTING. PITIFUL!!! I can run all the way up, and, when I get to the top, I am not even out of breath.

So, I actually AM 18. By the way, I'm SOMEWHAT vegetarian too. I once read an interesting article, many years ago, in which a Muslim brother proved that the Qur'an pushes towards vegetarianism. I lost that article, though. He did it very well.

I must (somewhat reluctantly) tell you [as is my Islamic duty] that I have been married now for 25 years, as of last September 3rd, something I WOULD NOT have told you had I not been Muslim. Hey, I'm just SAYING!!

But, I'm telling you this so that you can decide for yourself whether it is appropriate to carry on a conversation. Me? As I said: I'M FINISHED. You need not fear anything from me, because I'm on E (as in, EMPTY).

But, to have a Muslim/Baha'i BUDDY-sister to talk to seems like a very nice gift, especially since it can be a bit difficult to find open-minded people to rap with.

Baha'is are the COOLEST PEOPLE I've known, in many ways. Most "religious" people are a pain in the....

For instance, try going to a Muslim's home, on Eid Day, when everybody and dey mamma are eating meat, and then you say, "Sorry...I'm a vegetarian." You might get every kind of reply, from, "Astagfirullah!!" to "Auzubillahi mina Shaitan-i-Rajeem!" to, "Sister, the Holy Qur'an says..." or, "Sister, it is related by Hazrat Aisha, razi Allaho anha, that she heard Hazrat Abubakr, razi Allaho anho, say that he heard Umar, razi Allaho anho, say that he heard Umm Fatimah, razi Allaho anha say, that she heard Salman, razi Allaho anho say, that he heard Khadijah, razi Allaho Anha say, that she heard the Prophet Muhammad, sallalaho alaihe wa salaam, say, that you MUST eat meat!!!!"

You know how it goes. It's a LONELY ROAD, ain't it, being true to yourself; following your INNER GUIDANCE; your intuition; your instincts. Many religious people CANNOT, and will not, do that, because they feel that they'll be "violating" the dictates of some hierarchy. In my view, that borders on shirk [idolatry, as you know]. Well, it CAN be lonely, at times. People like us can't always share how we feel, especially with people who are dogmatically religious. I "obey those in authority over me," as Qur'an demands. But, I use JUDGEMENT, also, as Qur'an SAYS to do--my inner judgement.

Your open-ness is very refreshing, for me, personally.

Well, I'd better get going. May Almighty Allah give you the best in this life, as well as the best in the life to come!! Ameen. Rap later (maybe).

wasalaam,

Nasir Ahmad (the Muslim name I go by).
 
Old 01-23-2015, 06:54 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis King View Post
Nasir Ahmad (the Muslim name I go by).
Darrick, your "muslim" name is grammatically incorrect.

Cheers
 
Old 01-23-2015, 07:18 PM   #36
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To Sister Joyful Being

Right quick. About a month or so ago, or there abouts, I came here to ask people the procedure for "un-declaring," that is, for "leaving" the Baha'i Faith, as I had been Baha'i for 11 years. I did not "leave" because of lack of faith in Bahaullah, alaihe salaam (peace be upon him).

I had been Muslim for 28 years, and, to be honest, I just began to MISS my Muslim community. And I began to VERY MUCH miss salat, including congregational salat. There were not any negative reasons that I "left" Baha'i.

In my view, one doesn't "leave" Allah. I feel like there is this big mansion, with many rooms. In one room there's Islam. In another room there's Baha'i. In another room there's Sanatana Dharma ("Hinduism"), and like that.

I do not challenge the legitimacy of one group to declare exclusivity. But, I DO challenge anyone, or any group, that attempts to go TOO FAR in trying to exercise authority over MY INNER. That ain't happening.

So, yes, I am full, all-the-way Muslim, having recently "returned" to the deen. My "room" is Islam. I can go the the Baha'i "room," pick up my Baha'i prayer book, in the morning, and read, and benefit from, those prayers.

Well, I just wanted you to know that I didn't "leave" Baha'i because of doctrinal reasons. I just wanted to go back to the "room" that is simply more comfortable for ME.

For a sister, though, I know: It can be EXTREMELY difficult, especially young sisters that have to TOLERATE Muslim "men" that will USE Qur'an, hadith, to HIDE BEHIND so that they can expose their WEAKNESS AS MEN by telling sisters what THEY think sisters should do; or how THEY think sisters should be.

Once, I met a Muslim sister on the 63rd Street bus, in Chi-town. She got on at Damen. LIVELY sister!! Many years ago, when I had...ahem...ENERGY. I went back to the bus to greet her, PRETENDING that I thought that she was a Hebrew-Israelite, because of how she was dressed. So, I said, "Shalom, sister." She said, "Shalom. But, I'm Muslim," and smiled. I was DONE FOR. A smile DESTROYS me. I was determined that she'd be over to my crib the NEXT DAY.

Before we got to the Dan Ryan, where she was getting off, we'd exchanged phone numbers, and I promised to teach her how to "read" Qur'an, that is, how to orally transliterate the Qur'an, with a teaching system called Yassarnal Qur'an (Qur'an Made Easy).

The next day, she came over. At one point, it was time for salat. So, I went and made wuzu, then came back to the living room and knelt down, waiting for her to make wuzu and come out. She made the wuzu and came out.

I stood up to begin the prayer, but noticed that she was not standing next to me, one step back, as is the custom. Instead, she was like 8 feet behind me. I go, "Excuse me, sister, why are you back there?" She answered, "My previous Muslim husband taught me that women are to stand 10 feet behind the men, during salat."

THIS IS THE CRAP THAT MUSLIM WOMEN IN THE U.S. HAVE TO GO THROUGH!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRR!!!

So, I told her, "Naw, sister, he was just a weak man, as well as being incorrect." So, I asked her to come and stand next to me.

Now, TECHNICALLY, she shouldn't have even been in the crib with , being that she was "outside the prohibited degree." But, hey: I wasn't born Muslim! Well, I WAS born Muslim, according to Qur'an, but you know what I mean.

Anyway, I taught her how to read Qur'an in Arabic. Unfortunately, it ended up that we were not a match.

Well, my point is that I know what Muslim women go through, especially women that have SENSE; that have intelligence. It's even much, much harder for them.

And it seems like all the crazy Muslim men, in the U.S., choose the name Isa, which is Jesus' name. I never understood that. Her previous husband's name was Isa. And EVERY Muslim American convert that I met, whose name was Isa, was INSANE. I do not understand the connection. WHY would brothers who name themselves after Jesus, all be crazy? No reflection of Hazrat Isa, alaihe salaam, of course, but it was a very strange phenomenon.

Okay, I'm REALLY GONE now. Time to say Isha and hit the sack.

wasalaam,

Nasir
 
Old 01-23-2015, 07:34 PM   #37
dash
 
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Joined: Jun 2011
From: Somewhere "in this immensity"
Posts: 1,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis King View Post
I had been Muslim for 28 years, and, to be honest, I just began to MISS my Muslim community.


Nasir
Darrick,

Were you a Muslim at the same time you were a Mormon, Baha'i and then Daheshist? I'm just curious, because if you became a Mormon at around 18, served a mission, became born again Christian, then Mormon again, then Baha'i, then Daheshist....and if you are only 64 now, and were also Muslim for 28 years.... WOW! Please explain how you managed it all, it must be quite an exciting tale.

Cheers
 
Old 01-23-2015, 08:16 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2011
From: n ireland
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fadl View Post
Darrick,

Were you a Muslim at the same time you were a Mormon, Baha'i and then Daheshist? I'm just curious, because if you became a Mormon at around 18, served a mission, became born again Christian, then Mormon again, then Baha'i, then Daheshist....and if you are only 64 now, and were also Muslim for 28 years.... WOW! Please explain how you managed it all, it must be quite an exciting tale.

Cheers
Who's Darrick?
 
Old 01-25-2015, 09:31 AM   #39
Member
 
Joined: Dec 2014
From: Chicago
Posts: 44
Fadl, WHAT??!! Never said I was Mormon or Daheshist

Fadl, what on EARTH are you talking about? I never once said that I was a Mormon. I never said that.

NOR did I EVER say that I was a Daheshist, whatever that is. I have NO idea what a Daheshist is.

I lived and practiced the teachings of Islam for 28 years, FORMALLY taking my shahada (declaration of, "La illaha illalah, Muhammadar Rasoolulah") in 1975.

You must be getting me confused with some other person with whom you had a conversation.

Please be careful. I was making a friend here, and it bothers me that you may have given her a wrong impression of me, by stating that I said something that I have NEVER said. Go back and look at all of my posts, please. Thanks.
 
Old 01-25-2015, 10:02 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: Blue Planet
Posts: 1,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyful Being View Post
QUESTION: I read in the Qur'an and a few hadith that post-menopausal women do NOT need to cover their head. (I cover and dress modestly. Hijab is not a *scarf*, it's the Islamic dress code.) Is this true? I tried asking around, but I was told to just keep covered. I don't mind covering, but do I really have to? Is there a non-sexist Muslim scholar I can ask?? Hmmm....
Dear friend;
yes, what you have asked for is clearly mentioned in Quran (24;60):

And women of post-menstrual age who have no desire for marriage - there is no blame upon them for putting aside their outer garments [but] not displaying adornment. But to modestly refrain [from that] is better for them. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
 
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