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Old 05-04-2016, 08:42 PM   #1
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Two Baha'i questions

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Last edited by Ali12134; 06-16-2016 at 03:25 PM.
 
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:35 AM   #2
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Did Baha'u'llah have three wives concurrently? Most Bahais say so, and there's no problem in principle with the Manifestation not following his laws in this respect; Muhammad had more than four wives and married without giving a dowry. The law-giver stands above the laws. But we do not really know when Baha'u'llah married his third wife, Gawhar. The "received wisdom" is that it was during his time in Baghdad, but (1) they had no children then, and (2) when Baha'u'llah was exiled from Baghdad to Istanbul, his "third wife" did not accompany him, remaining instead with her brother. They were later rounded up and sent to exile in Mosul. She went to Akka in 1870, seven years after Baha'u'llah's exile from Baghdad. Their one daughter is said to have been born in Akka. So a marriage in Akka seems more likely than a marriage in Baghdad; a sigheh (temporary marriage) in Baghdad is not implausible if Gawhar was a personal maid in the inner appartments.

Now as to whether his first or second wife had died or been divorced by 1870 :

Baha'u'llah's last child with his second wife, Fatimeh, was Badi'u'lláh, born in 1867 when Fatimeh was 39 years old. By that time, Abdu'l-Baha had emerged as Baha'u'llah's favourite and pre-eminent disciple. Fatimeh is said to have been very jealous of Abdu'l-Baha ( son of Assiyeh). I see two possibilities: (1) Baha'u'llah and Fatimeh still had marital relations in 1870, despite her jealousy of Abdu'l-Baha, but she had no more children because of her age,
or (2) Baha'u'llah and Fatimeh no longer had marital relations, because of age or because her opposition to his favourite son was intolerable. In the latter case, was there a formal divorce? Would we know if there was? We have no documentary or eyewitness account of the marriage, so it is quite possible there was a divorce, which no-one mentioned. The Muhammad Ali faction would not mention it because it would reduce their own standing, the Abdu'l-Baha faction would not mention it because Abdu'l-Baha was too decent to use the mother's fall from grace as an argument against her son (Muhammad Ali).

There is also a letter by Abdu'l-Baha, quoted in the Diary of Habíb Mu'ayyad and translated by Ahang Rabbani, <http://bahai-library.com/pdf/r/rabba...ayyad_2013.pdf / pdf in texts/bhhist docs/muayyad>on page 443 it reads


T
Quote:
he multiple marriages of Bahá'u'lláh occurred prior to the revelation of the Kitáb-i Aqdas. At the time of Abraham, Moses, David and Solomon, multiplicity of wives was permitted. Therefore, in consideration of the past Dispensation and in view of many other factors, Bahá'u'lláh, prior to the revelation of the Kitáb-i Aqdas, acquired two wives. Jacob had four, Abraham had several and David had ninety-nine wives. Bahá'u'lláh, however, in accordance with the laws of the previous Dispensation, acquired two wives and, when one passed away, another marriage occurred. However, after the revelation of the Kitáb-i Aqdas, this matter was concluded, and no other marriages took place. And the multiplicity of His marriages was in accord with certain wisdom. But everyone must now turn to the Kitáb-i Aqdas and do as bidden therein.
The problem is, Khadijeh Bagum died on 15 September 1882, after the revelation of the Kitab-e Aqdas. Fatimeh was still alive when Baha'u'llah died. But Abdu'l-Baha says
Baha'u'llah's third marriage took place after the "passing away" of one of his first two wives.

If indeed the marriage took place in Palestine after the death of Khadijeh Bagum, and if Gawhar was pregnant or had her daughter with her when she arrived in Palestine, (two ifs), then it would appear that she had a child and no husband, for which there are three explanations (1) she was a widow, as David Hofman says (but I do not think he is reliable in such matters), (2) she slipped or (3) she was raped. I think the last of these is most likely, as the group who were sent to Mosul were subject to severe abuse, and they had no protectors there.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 02:31 AM   #3
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Last edited by Ali12134; 06-16-2016 at 03:25 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 06:14 AM   #4
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regarding your second question, I can hazard a guess...

other cultures talk about time differently; as for example, in the Spanish-speaking world the expression for a week is 'ocho dias' and for a fortnight is 'quince dias' (8 days and 15 days, respectively), which has been explained as counting the beginning and ending days rather than the number of 24-hour elapsed intervals. thus, a week is sunday m t w th f s sunday again...makes eight.

not having a complete muslim calendar for reference, I will bet that the time from His arrival in Iraq to the time of His departure included parts of 12 different years (which are but 354 or 355 days long)...not 12 spans of 365 days as we would speak about it in our vernacular...
 
Old 05-05-2016, 08:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali12134 View Post
Thanks so much for your reply.
I think I somewhat understand the answer to my first question. Shoghi Effendi said Baha'u'llah was "acting according to the laws of Islam, which had not yet been superseded". So this definitely means that the laws of the Bab were never enforced because there was no authority after the martyrdom of the Bab to enforce them. At least this is what I understand, but I would appreciate any other logical explanation as to why the laws of the Bab were not enforced.

Regarding my second questions, I still have n't come up with an answer.
Hello,

I would say, Bahaullah did not have to act according to the Laws of Islam. HE 'chose' to act according to the Laws of Islam.
Had He wished, He could act according to the Laws of christianity or Islam or Babi Faith or even Aqdas before it was revealed. Shoqi Effendi is not saying at that still the Laws of Islam were to be followed or, that Laws of Bab were not enforced yet. He is simply pointing out that Bahaullahs Marriages are compatible with Laws of Islam.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 08:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali12134 View Post
Hi I'm a Baha'i and have two questions.

1: Baha'u'llah married his second and third wife when He had accepted the Bab and not revealed the Most Holy Book or declared Himself as a Manifestation of God and I believe at that time, the Bab's laws were applicable to all. According to what I know the Babi Faith allowed two wives. Can you please tell me how one can respond to a person who asks the reason for the third marriage of Baha'u'llah

2: I know the dates when Baha'u'llah left Iran and then left Iraq which shows that Baha'u'llah was in Iraq for 10 years or 10.5 years. But in Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Baha'u'llah says: "By the leave and permission of the King of the Age, this Servant journeyed from the Seat of Sovereignty [Tihran] to 'Iraq, and dwelt for twelve years in that land." How can we explain this?

Thanks!
To me, many of the actions and life of a Manifestation can be for the purpose of Testing.

Lets remember, Moses had killed a person, and He was brought up in the family of a cruel phraoh.
As Baha'u'llah stated in Iqan, all this was to Test for people of His time, that such a peson, would be the Messenger of God.

To me, in this Age, there are simillar tests regarding Baha'u'llah. Notice how many have rejected or doubted about Baha'u'llah, because He had 3 wives, or He said only men are to be members of UHJ.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 11:11 AM   #7
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Last edited by Ali12134; 06-16-2016 at 03:25 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 11:18 AM   #8
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Last edited by Ali12134; 06-16-2016 at 03:25 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 01:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali12134 View Post
With all due respect, testing is irrelevant. If a seeker wants to know the reason for something that is explainable, as Baha'is we should be able to give him or her logical explanations. This is what Abdu'l-Baha did when He answered difficult questions. He never said that these are tests of God, instead He proved through logic the reason behind something. Also what Baha'u'llah "chose" to do is irrelevant. Shoghi Effendi who is the infallible interpreter says Baha'u'llah followed the laws of Islam. So that much is clear that Baha'u'llah did not follow the Bab's laws in regards to His marriages. Now, what I asked was if any one knows why or to what extent the laws of the Bab were being enforced and how.
Anyway, thanks for your reply.

Have you read the quote from Bahaullah, that All else besides Him, require to follow the Laws? I think its in Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah.


Where is the quote from shoghi Effendi? Which book, which page please.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 02:44 PM   #10
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Last edited by Ali12134; 06-16-2016 at 03:26 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 04:05 PM   #11
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Last edited by Ali12134; 06-16-2016 at 03:26 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 04:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali12134 View Post
A knowledgeable Baha'i, who specially knows the writings and teachings of the Bab replied in this way:

Question 1: The law of the Bab is exactly like Islam, namely 4 wives. .
I didn't know law of the Bab was exactly like Islam. Do you have any reference from the Writings of the Bab to prove this?
 
Old 05-05-2016, 04:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali12134 View Post
(4) The Guardian confirmed that at the time of the marriages of Bahá'u'lláh, the "laws of Islam ... .had not yet been superseded".
Where did the Gaurdian confirmed that at the time, laws of Islam were not superseded yet?
 
Old 05-05-2016, 04:54 PM   #14
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Last edited by Ali12134; 06-16-2016 at 03:26 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 04:56 PM   #15
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Last edited by Ali12134; 06-16-2016 at 03:26 PM.
 
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