Yeshua

Hello!

I'm a Christian, of the Roman Catholic denomination (although I am turning more and more to the Orthodox Church). I have an interest in and love for all religions and naturally I find the Baha'i Faith to be a very beautiful, spirit-filled religion. I particularly like the fact that the Baha'i Faith calls for a World Government, an idea I very much endorse and stresses the inherent unity of humankind.

I hope to grow in my understanding of your religion, and perhaps Bahai's on this forum can grow in their understanding of Christianity which I am led to believe Baha'ullah regarded as a revealed religion?

God Bless and Christian love :wub to you all!

cire perdue

I am glad you have joined us that I can learn from you too. Some are Baha'is because they reject Christianity. I did. Now after many years I understand that everyone must find their own answers. My older sister converted from popular Christianity to become Roman Catholic. Her forgiveness and kindness to me comes from her faith. I am so grateful to have that personal experience of Catholicism. I had to learn to respect her, and she has gained it. Had I not been a Baha'i I would not have been motivated enough to grow and appreciate hers or others' faith. Baha'is believe in the individual investigation of truth. I have to face the validity of others' experience. I am grateful that I can learn faith from others. Thank you for an example to follow!!!

Orthodox

Welcome to the forum. Its good to have another Christian here. And that you are making the move to Orthodoxy. Christos Anesti!

Livindesert

Yeshua nice to meet you : ) I have done my own search with the Orthodox. I ened up becoming Baha'i but I did find that Orthodox Christianity was a beautiful expression of man's love for God. I espcially like the Monks of New Skete.


Glad to have you aboard

pheonixduprese

I only know one person that's Orthodox, but I can't say that my feelings for them are exactly cordial. Hopefully that person isn't a representation of the whole cake, because you seem like a nice person.

Livindesert

Hey Pheonix

All the Orthodox I have met in real life are great people that are very warm and loving :wub I even know one Orthodox who stopped going to a Christian web forum because he did not like the hostility he found between the members of the forum.

Orthodox

Typically all orthodox believe as I do pheonix, they believe that the church is the only church which has remained faithful tot he synods and the fathers and the only church that has the fullness of truth. Don;t judge me on merely my seeking answers and asking hard questions to bahai, I may seem harsh but I do it because I seek knowledge.

Christos Anesti.

pheonixduprese

Were you implying that I was refering to you? because I was not. :wink:wink

Orthodox

PLease share who you were speaking of. Im interested.

pheonixduprese

You don't know him. He's interested in the Baha'i Faith and debate, though. Just in case you're interested.

Orthodox

Hope he does well to defend Holy Orthodoxy.

Christos Anesti.

pheonixduprese

Mmm, yes, he is in fact quite bull-headed in his opinions. Not exactly open minded.

Orthodox

Thats good an open mind is the weakest thing you can be. To have an open mind is to let any idea in and take grasp. An open mind is actually the weakest of all positions. You need a closed mind with gaurds that detect and investigate before they let ideas in. So thats good.

So its good he has a closed mind, like you and me. We actually want to be sure of what we let into our brains and don't want toa ccept just anything that makes a claim. In fact all humanity has a closed mind. Thank God for that.

Christos Anesti.

pheonixduprese

Allah'u'abha.

No, I do not have a closed mind. At all. As a matter of fact, I value myself for my free-thinking.

Orthodox

Its that free thinking that makes you have a closed mind. if you truely had an open mind you would accept what I say about orthodox Christianity without question.

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates ungaurded and unbarred, a great quote from a great game.

But it has a great point. You have a closed mind you don't accept my words blindly because you put them through examination before you let them into your town to determine if they are worthy. So yes you and all humanity has a closed mind. Nothing to be ashamed about.

pheonixduprese

No, open-mindedness puts others' thoughts to consideration. It has nothing to do with accepting them or not.

Orthodox

An open mind is being open, you let in an idea regardless or not. You do not ahve an open mind you have a closed mind. You examine ideas before you let them into your mind, therefore it is closed off to anything you don't accept therefore it is a closed mind. Congrats.

If you had an open mind you would accept the trinity (and I once again have to remind you, the trinity of the Nicene chalcedonian councils so you don't misrepresent me).

pheonixduprese

open-minded: Receptive to new and different ideas or the opinions of others.

From the Free Dictionary

Receptive, not accepting.

Orthodox

Receptive:

1. able to apprehend quickly
2. tending to receive new ideas or suggestions favourably
3. able to hold or receive

The dictionary is not infallible but it certaintly fits what I say. An open mind means you let anything into your mind because it is open. Like a store you let customers in regardless of their ideology. Your mind is closed to orthodoxy therefore you have a closed mind. Thats just the fact of the matter. In fact your mind is closed to alot of things.

pheonixduprese

Counter-definition-

Willing to consider or accept new suggestions and ideas.
From google.

(now a judge would chose the more favorable definition, correct? Bah, whatever. I'm not debating with you.)

Orthodox

Your right, we're discussing. But you are still closed off to ideas are you not?

Christ is God ontollogically with the father and the son. In the trinity. You are closed to this idea. Thusyour mind is closed. You are closed to the idea of war. You are closed tot he idea of abortion. Your mind is closed, all human minds are closed. You would not be open tot he idea the bab and baha'u'llah were false. Thus your mind is closed. from the mere fact you have closed off these ideas from yourself.

Livindesert

LoL thanks for bring some laughter into my night.

Orthodox

I am being utterly serious. All humans have closed minds. You and me are not exception. OPen mind is a label for those who claim to be enlightened, im sorry, all human beings are closed minded and for good reason.

Livindesert

Having a open mind is saying "I disagree with your opinion but respect your right to hold it".

whine of astonsihment

How interesting Yeshua! Your post caught my attention and is the reason I registered and joined this forum tonight. (I got so excited I made a typo creating my user name) I was born into a family of Greek Orthodox clergy - 5 priests in 3 different countries, 1 monk (in a monastery on Mount Athos) and a theologian with 2 PhDs in Theology (one from the Sorbonne in Paris and another from the University of Athens) - to be exact. I joined the Baha'i Faith 15 years ago and am the only Baha'i in my family - so far anyway....
I'm curious to learn what is drawing you towards Orthodoxy... for myself, after much serious study and prayer, I came to the conclusion and certainty the Baha'u'llah is indeed the return of Christ

Orthodox

Thats not an open mind, thats tolerance.

Livindesert

Amazing Whine glad to have you aboard the forums. I love going to Greek fests when I can get some baklava. Yum..

Livindesert

The two go hand in hand to me.

Orthodox

For you, but in reality they are different things.

Living will you let in the doctrine of the trinity into your heart (and you know what I mean(I have to constantly keep doing this so you won't misrepresent or avoid the question)

whine of astonsihment

All Christians who think they hold a monopoly on the truth of Jesus Christ make me smile but as a former Orthodox Christian, I must say that the Greek Orthodox arrogance just makes me downright laugh out loud. Get a grip my friend you're making my family and inherited religion look bad.

Alithos Anesti! - and He has returned as well. Sorry you missed Him....

Livindesert

Well in my view it already is(in the Baha'i way) but I have previously held what would be considered the traditional trinity view. Back when I attened a Episcipol church service.

Orthodox

So no you have not let the trinity into your heart and you know what I mean, Not your bahai trinity but Orthodox trinity. Thus you are closed minded. Because you will not let it into your mind and heart. You have closed it off from you. AND PLEASE for God sake, do not say you accept trinity into your heart, FOR YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. And if you do it only shows bahai can only argue by simplyfying,

Orthodox

It is no arrogance but the actual truth. You should know that the church has an authentic line of bishops and traditions dating back to the apostles. It was not a universal invisible church Christ established but a physical thing, which was maintained by the bishops after them untill this day through the ancient patriarchs.

It is not arrogance, but truth. And that being said, what I spout is what Orthodoxy is. If you think orthodoxy is bad its not because of me. For this is what is taught by orthodoxy. I didn't come up with this, I didn't say orthodoxy is the only church, I merely acnknowledge it.

whine of astonsihment

My friend, you do not grow up in a family of Greek Orthodox clergy as I did and not become reasonably knowledgeable about the Church's history. You are suggesting that just because the Orthodox administrative structure has been in existence since the ancient patriarchs and even possibly as far back as the apostles, that this also naturally means they also have the only correct understanding of the nature of Jesus Christ and His teachings. And I'm responding with all due respect that I think you've been sipping too much Mavrodaphne (the traditional communion wine for all you non-Geeks).

This is equivalent to saying that because Greeks invented democracy first, they invented the only true and correct form of democracy, even though they still practiced slavery then and women were totally excluded from any participation at that time. As I said before Orthodox, please try and get a grip on the arrogance masked as indisputable truth - you really are making us look bad (the Greek 'us' not the Baha'i 'us'):wink

Just because you are able to repeat what the Church has taught you to say like a parrot rather than making it up in your own head, doesn't necessarily absolve you of the responsibility to use logical reasoning in your adamant remarks and attitude. I have waited 15 years for my highly-educated and well-respected priest-brother to rationally and logically discuss and debate with his baby sister (that would be me) the truth of Baha'u'llah's Revelation. I have made available to him and my other religious family members still living in Greece all the Baha'i writings which have been translated into Greek and still I wait patiently .... and smile.

I don't worry because I'm confident that if the discussion does not take place here in this world, it will most certainly take place in the next world - and there will be no need for much 'debate' then.

Orthodox

I don't see an equivelent actually, we can certaintly trace the bishops through lines and ecclesiastical histories back to the desciples throught he church fathers and similar such things. The Greeks invented a political system yes, but they did not start an organisation around that concept and ahve it carry on to today. Now that being said, I parrot just as much as you parrot your bahai beliefs and writings. The difference is I will actually be able to defend orthodoxy. But that being said.

And yes I do think because we can trace ourselve back tot he apostles through our clergy and practice one can trust the church, For Christ promised to protect his church against the gates of hell, thus this prevents it from being wrong. So I ask you. did the first century church die in the first century? No, I don't think so. And if what I say is arrogance the bahai are just as arrogant for claiming to "fulfill" Christianity.

Also if you look at some of the debates Ive been in thus far you would see I have been using logical reasoning. Consider the idea that was proposed because the leader of bahai was rejected like Jesus and muhammad he must be right, how does that follow? Logically how does it follow from being rejected you must right? It follows that he is rejected by a certain group like everyone who has claimed to be prophet.

Or how about my favourite which came about five minutes ago that the Christian trinity and bahai trinity do not contradict. One saying Jesus is God equal with teh father the other saying he is not. Sir, perhaps before you judge me you might read some of the things I have been debating. BUt the discussion of the church linking from this day to the desciples is one of historicity I think. And One I would love to discuss.

whine of astonsihment

My mother was famous for making some of the best baklava around.
She's been gone for about 10 years now but I still have several pounds of it residing on my hips and thighs.....

Livindesert

The difference is most people I talk to can listen to but disagree with the opposite opinion without refering to the person holding it as "irrational and "illogical".

Orthodox

Actually I don't think i've used those words specifically to regard the bahai faith. But if I have I wouldn't consider it wrong. BUt that doesn't change the fact it is still a form of arrogance the bahai go under.

Livindesert

The difference is for me is I know God is found in Christianity even if we disagree on the details and respect it as a true path

Orthodox

If God is found in Christianity. There is no need for bahai then. So Christianity is true huh? What about it is true?