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Old 09-06-2012, 07:52 AM   #1
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Baha'is banned from competing....

Banned from making their mark
Banned from making their mark - Bahá'í World News Service


NEW YORK, 6 September 2012, (BWNS) – In practically any other country of the world, a teenage chess champion, a national judo standout and a talented pianist would be valued as contributors to their society.

In the example of three young Iranians, however, being members of the Baha'i Faith has meant a ban on competing and performing at the highest levels.

Judoist Khashayar Zarei, chess player Pedram Atoufi, and pianist Pegah Yazdani are all victims of Iran's systematic policy – spelled out in a government-backed 1991 memorandum – to "block" the progress and development of Baha'is and "deny them any position of influence."


"Khashayar's story"

As Iran brought home a record haul of medals from the 2012 Olympic Games in London, 19-year-old Khashayar Zarei could only dream of what might have been.

In his age and weight class, Khashayar is one of the country's finest judoists. But he has been barred from competition because he is a Baha'i.

"Despite the fact that on three occasions I came first in my weight group on the national team, as a result of my belief in the Baha'i Faith, I have been banned from participating in the Asian World competitions," Khashayar wrote in a letter published by the Human Rights Activists News Agency.

To add to Khashayar's disappointment, he was recently stopped from pursuing his architectural studies at Shiraz University because of his religious beliefs. Officials told him they had received instructions to expel him in a confidential letter from the Ministry of Science, Research and Technology. This is also part of official government policy: that once it becomes known a student is Baha'i, he or she must be expelled.

Khashayar is not alone among Iranian youth in having his hopes thwarted.

Application forms for admission to special programs for gifted students require the applicant to specify his or her religion, allowing administrators to disqualify Baha'i candidates; there is no option to leave the section blank. One Baha'i – a distinguished year two high school student in the city of Sari – was recently expelled from her gifted school. Two others were denied the opportunity to take part in a Science and Mathematics Olympiad for prodigies. In Tehran, an outstanding Baha'i student who reached a high level in the "Robocup" technology initiative was barred from registering in a school to prepare herself for competing at the national and international levels. And in 2008, the Baha'i International Community learned how the parents of one student were told by a sympathetic school administrator that all school principals in Marvdasht had received verbal instructions to give students of "the Bahaist sect" and other minorities only a passing grade in their school
examinations – regardless of their actual level of performance – so as to prevent them from being eligible to enter universities.


"Chess champion"

This type of exclusion is not new. After winning a national chess championship in 1991 at the age of 16, Pedram Atoufi was told he could not represent Iran at the Asian Chess Championships because he was a Baha'i.

Following the 1979 Islamic revolution, chess was banned in Iran for a whole decade. So when Pedram won the country's first national tournament for youth in 12 years, he was thrilled at the opportunity to represent his country in international competition.

But when he went to obtain his passport, he was handed a form and told to mark his religion.

"I wrote Baha'i," he said. "The person who was processing my form said 'If you put Baha'i, it's not easy to get a passport.'"

Pedram was informed that the only possibility was to visit the president of the Iran Chess Federation, who could send him on a team visa. The president, however, became enraged upon hearing that Pedram was a Baha'i and sent a letter to the Federation's members in every state saying that Pedram was barred from competing in any official chess tournaments. That year, no one was sent to compete for Iran in the Asian Chess Championship.

Pedram's ban was gradually relaxed over four years, leaving only a prohibition on international competition. When his team won the national championship in 1997, he was replaced and his teammates represented Iran in the international stages.

Today, Pedram lives in Scottsdale, Arizona, where he runs a club which aims to cultivate a sense of unity through chess. He cannot return to his homeland; a good friend who went to the youth chess championship with him was only recently released from jail.


"Pianist in exile"

The denial of higher education to Baha'is also applies to other forms of artistic and professional education.

Barred from pursuing her musical ambitions in Iran, Pegah Yazdani traveled alone to Moscow in 1998 to study piano. She cried for the whole flight.

"Emotionally it was a really tough time; I had to leave everyone behind," she said. "At the same time I was very excited because I was going to pursue my dream."

Completing her instruction after five years, she obtained her degree and returned to Iran to her family, hoping to perform and open a piano school.

She was offered a part-time job at Tehran's conservatory. But when employees were asked to fill out a form asking them to mark their religion, Pegah was fired and banned from giving music lessons or playing recitals.

"If they see 'Baha'i' there, they don't even look at you, they just deny the form," she says.

"I knew I wasn't able to do anything in Iran. I wouldn't be able to study there. I wouldn't be able to work. I wouldn't be able to live there normally."

Accepted in 2007 into the London College of Music and Media, Pegah took a masters degree in Piano Performance and now lives in Canada where she is truly engaged in music – performing, teaching piano, and also working as a ballet accompanist.

Despite her ordeal, Pegah – now 36 – says she still loves her country very much and wishes she could return. She hopes that one day soon the Baha'is that remain in Iran will be allowed to make their full contribution.

Bani Dugal, the Baha'i International Community's principal representative to the United Nations, says the Iranian government's strategy towards Baha'is is denying the country the benefit of a host of talents and capacities.

"The lengths to which Iran will go to prevent young Baha'is from obtaining higher education has grown more and more convoluted and extreme," she said. "These stories are pitiful examples of a state-sponsored campaign which, in the end, only deprives Iran of the valuable and exciting contributions that could be made by some of the country's best and brightest young people."





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Banned from making their mark - Bahá'í World News Service
 
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:54 AM   #2
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If Bahais are so concerned about the state of these poor Irani Bahais, why not give them asylum in some country that is sympathetic to their cause? That would solve the problem. America, Israel, Great Britain, Europe, India, etc - the whole world is there. Just adopt them and take them out of Iran. Why let them suffer?
 
Old 09-06-2012, 09:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imranshaykh View Post
If Bahais are so concerned about the state of these poor Irani Bahais, why not give them asylum in some country that is sympathetic to their cause? That would solve the problem. America, Israel, Great Britain, Europe, India, etc - the whole world is there. Just adopt them and take them out of Iran. Why let them suffer?


While that seems logical, it's a complex issue. What if the country that you lived in didn't allow you acknowledge Muhammad (s.a.w.) as the messenger of Allah? How is that fair? If you were born and raised in a country, the prospect of leaving would be frightening. You wouldn't know anyone, you wouldn't speak the language, how could you live and survive on your own? You would leave your family, your friends, and everything that is familiar to you.

Religious tolerance is the best option.

Last edited by Zhang; 09-06-2012 at 09:15 AM.
 
Old 09-06-2012, 09:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imranshaykh View Post
If Bahais are so concerned about the state of these poor Irani Bahais, why not give them asylum in some country that is sympathetic to their cause? That would solve the problem. America, Israel, Great Britain, Europe, India, etc - the whole world is there. Just adopt them and take them out of Iran. Why let them suffer?
A far easier solution would be for Iran to grant it's citizens freedom of belief...
 
Old 09-06-2012, 05:24 PM   #5
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Bahais in the World

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Originally Posted by arthra View Post
A far easier solution would be for Iran to grant it's citizens freedom of belief...
I disagree. Iran is an independent country with its own independent constitution. One needs to respect that. If you want to do something that is not permitted in the constitution of the country, then it is better to leave the country and seek asylum where you will be allowed to do what you want to do.

And those who are so concerned and make so much noise about this (albeit selectively) should offer asylum.

Let me give you an example, Gay marriages are banned in most parts of the world. however if you were gay and want to marry in say Saudi Arabia, they will kill you. So what do you do? Ask for amendment of law? No! Go to America where it is permitted and do whatever you want to do. Ditto if you want to drink, wear a bikini etc etc.

You must respect that it is the law of the land. And respect that. If you cant, then you are inviting trouble for yourself.
 
Old 09-06-2012, 05:27 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Zhang View Post
While that seems logical, it's a complex issue. What if the country that you lived in didn't allow you acknowledge Muhammad (s.a.w.) as the messenger of Allah? How is that fair? If you were born and raised in a country, the prospect of leaving would be frightening. You wouldn't know anyone, you wouldn't speak the language, how could you live and survive on your own? You would leave your family, your friends, and everything that is familiar to you.

Religious tolerance is the best option.
In France, the government banned the veil. If it is so important to me, either I will take off the veil or I will have to move out of France.

In any case, my point on this matter has always been that why only Iran. the Bahai Faith is banned in almost all over the Middle East and in several other countries. However, Bahais and the UN and all in between don't say anything - either because these countries are allies of the West or because the West has some commercial relationship with them. If you are protesting, then protest holistically. Targeting only Iran highlights that Bahais have a hidden agenda.
 
Old 09-06-2012, 05:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by imranshaykh View Post
In France, the government banned the veil. If it is so important to me, either I will take off the veil or I will have to move out of France.

In any case, my point on this matter has always been that why only Iran. the Bahai Faith is banned in almost all over the Middle East and in several other countries. However, Bahais and the UN and all in between don't say anything - either because these countries are allies of the West or because the West has some commercial relationship with them. If you are protesting, then protest holistically. Targeting only Iran highlights that Bahais have a hidden agenda.
Iran is kind of a hot topic in the media right now, and in the past, since the revolution. Maybe that's just why we hear about the Iranian oppression so much.
 
Old 09-06-2012, 09:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by imranshaykh View Post
I disagree. Iran is an independent country with its own independent constitution. One needs to respect that. If you want to do something that is not permitted in the constitution of the country, then it is better to leave the country and seek asylum where you will be allowed to do what you want to do.

And those who are so concerned and make so much noise about this (albeit selectively) should offer asylum.

....

You must respect that it is the law of the land. And respect that. If you cant, then you are inviting trouble for yourself.
You may disagree but Iran is a signatory to the UN charter part of which includes the Universal Declaration of Human Rights guarantees freedom of belief for it's member nations...

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.


Article 18.

• Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.



Article 19.

• Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.


Iran voted in favor of the Declaration...

See:

Universal Declaration of Human Rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 09-06-2012, 10:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by arthra View Post
A far easier solution would be for Iran to grant it's citizens freedom of belief...
I agree 100%

Regards Tony
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:39 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
I agree 100%

Regards Tony
100% disagree
 
Old 09-09-2012, 12:20 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by imranshaykh View Post
100% disagree
ImranShaykh is out for some Bahai/Babi blood.
He probably finds the idea of sitting around the table with his other Bahai hating friends and recounting the history of the torture and slaughter of innocent Bahais a pleasurable and appealing session of bonding with his peers.
The bloodlust and pleasure he recieves is probably tantamount to a form of sexual rapture that a porn-star gets at seeing his next victim being debauched for the public eye.
lol...
 
Old 09-09-2012, 11:52 AM   #12
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Although I personally am a supporter of religious freedom and other basic freedoms, Imranshaykh raises some good points and furthermore written in a very modest and clear style. I think imranshaykh's point still holds even in the face of the UN signatory argument, although that is a good argument for sure. The basic argument I see is that there is something which underlies the causes which Bahai communities generally support, or at least make their support public for. What is this underlying mechanism? I think that is a perfectly legitimate question and one which should be always openly discussed.
 
Old 09-09-2012, 04:40 PM   #13
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Although I personally am a supporter of religious freedom and other basic freedoms, Imranshaykh raises some good points and furthermore written in a very modest and clear style. I think imranshaykh's point still holds even in the face of the UN signatory argument, although that is a good argument for sure. The basic argument I see is that there is something which underlies the causes which Bahai communities generally support, or at least make their support public for. What is this underlying mechanism? I think that is a perfectly legitimate question and one which should be always openly discussed.
hatred is still hatred however you 'guise' it. I would rather someone openly defame the Bahais angrily then do it subtly. Its the subtle people that pretend they are polite schollars out to discuss things when on the inside they are hungry wolves burning with the desire to ravage that really scares me..
 
Old 09-09-2012, 09:42 PM   #14
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100% disagree
imranshaykh - Arthra posted a good response that was quite informative giving a view which I could support.

Would you like to add comment as to why you 100% disagree?

Would you think that you are entitled to 100% freedom in practicing Islam and others can not practice their Faith in full Freedom as well?

Regards Tony
 
Old 09-10-2012, 04:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfGoblins View Post
ImranShaykh is out for some Bahai/Babi blood.
He probably finds the idea of sitting around the table with his other Bahai hating friends and recounting the history of the torture and slaughter of innocent Bahais a pleasurable and appealing session of bonding with his peers.
The bloodlust and pleasure he recieves is probably tantamount to a form of sexual rapture that a porn-star gets at seeing his next victim being debauched for the public eye.
lol...
Dear friend:

I am not out for any blood. I am only a humble servant of Allah and His prophet. I raise these questions because I believe Bahais take the verses of the Quran out of context and twist the meanings.

As for getting any sadistic pleasure, I dont think that is the intention and I rest the accusation. But I also know that Bahais are very very selective in who they condemn. For example, bahais will never condemn human rights in Saudi Arabia. The Bahai Faith is banned there as well. But you will never hear anything about it because Saudi Arabia is currently an ally of the US. Thats all.
 
Old 09-10-2012, 04:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
imranshaykh - Arthra posted a good response that was quite informative giving a view which I could support.

Would you like to add comment as to why you 100% disagree?

Would you think that you are entitled to 100% freedom in practicing Islam and others can not practice their Faith in full Freedom as well?

Regards Tony
I believe everyone should have 100% religious freedom. Bahais included. And Bahais should protest. I only find their stand of selective protest very hypocritical. Bahais never protest against Saudi Arabia or Indonesia or China or Israel or right now anyone. They are focussed on only Iran. The entire Middle East bans the Bahai Faith. But the Bahai Faith will never prtest this - not atleast till the Middle East is an ally of the West.
 
Old 09-10-2012, 04:45 AM   #17
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Dear friend:

I am not out for any blood. I am only a humble servant of Allah and His prophet. I raise these questions because I believe Bahais take the verses of the Quran out of context and twist the meanings.

As for getting any sadistic pleasure, I dont think that is the intention and I rest the accusation. But I also know that Bahais are very very selective in who they condemn. For example, bahais will never condemn human rights in Saudi Arabia. The Bahai Faith is banned there as well. But you will never hear anything about it because Saudi Arabia is currently an ally of the US. Thats all.
then i look forward to days of you showing love to the Bahais rather then enmity. THe Bahais are entitled to practice their religion. Now we are only a threat to Islam insofar as people have the right to choose this religion rather than Islam. We dont actively try to limit inhibit or twist the Quran at all. Those are the religious interpretations that are our right as an independant religion. Should Christians hate on Muslims because Muhammad denied the trinity?
 
Old 09-10-2012, 06:44 AM   #18
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then i look forward to days of you showing love to the Bahais rather then enmity. THe Bahais are entitled to practice their religion. Now we are only a threat to Islam insofar as people have the right to choose this religion rather than Islam. We dont actively try to limit inhibit or twist the Quran at all. Those are the religious interpretations that are our right as an independant religion. Should Christians hate on Muslims because Muhammad denied the trinity?
I always show love to Bahais. I have no reason to hate them. I only ask them to refrain from quoting verses from the Quran out of context and to present traditions in Islam. Simple.

No, Christians should not hate Muslims because Muslims deny Trinity.
 
Old 09-10-2012, 04:21 PM   #19
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I only ask them to refrain from quoting verses from the Quran out of context and to present traditions in Islam. Simple.
I really appreciate it if you could show, only in one example, the Baha'i Scriptures quotes a verse from Quran which is not related to the arguments that is making.
 
Old 09-10-2012, 04:21 PM   #20
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I always show love to Bahais. I have no reason to hate them. .
oh sure...lol..
 
Old 09-10-2012, 05:08 PM   #21
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oh sure...lol..
I also lol'ed xD
 
Old 09-10-2012, 09:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imranshaykh View Post
I believe everyone should have 100% religious freedom. Bahais included. And Bahais should protest. I only find their stand of selective protest very hypocritical. Bahais never protest against Saudi Arabia or Indonesia or China or Israel or right now anyone. They are focussed on only Iran. The entire Middle East bans the Bahai Faith. But the Bahai Faith will never prtest this - not atleast till the Middle East is an ally of the West.
Thank you for the reply

Fair enough - But you can take it from me that I will protest against any injustice I hear about in a lawful way.

I guess at the moment it is Iran that persecutes the most and to a degree that is ridiculous. Please justify the 10000 days the 7 Bahai's have been held in prison for no other reason that being Baha'i! There are so much injustice coming from Iran is most likely why protest is more focused on this Land.

But if you have a lot more stories to post re injustice in these other places, please post so we can get it out there for people to know.

Regards Tony
 
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