Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Studies > Religion


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2018, 09:32 AM   #121
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 198
66. O CHILDREN OF THE DIVINE AND INVISIBLE ESSENCE!
Ye shall be hindered from loving Me and souls shall be perturbed as they make mention of Me. For minds cannot grasp Me nor hearts contain Me.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

I can testify that it is hard to truly love God.
 
Join Baha'i Forums


Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!


Old 07-18-2018, 07:21 AM   #122
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 198
67. O SON OF BEAUTY!
By My spirit and by My favor! By My mercy and by My beauty! All that I have revealed unto thee with the tongue of power, and have written for thee with the pen of might, hath been in accordance with thy capacity and understanding, not with My state and the melody of My voice.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

I have learned that sometimes the Manifestation takes the current understanding of history and science and uses it, even if it is not true.
 
Old 07-18-2018, 09:14 AM   #123
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
From: Birmingham
Posts: 247
I'm interested in the above two posts. Why does God tell us to love him if we cannot? Also when do the manifestations use science and history even if it's wrong
 
Old 07-18-2018, 09:33 AM   #124
Senior Member
 
Walrus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Wisconsin
Posts: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
I'm interested in the above two posts. Why does God tell us to love him if we cannot?
For the first, I don't think "hindered" means we cannot. Just that there are obstacles there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Also when do the manifestations use science and history even if it's wrong
I believe if I am remembering correctly (and I cannot find the reference at the moment) Baha'u'llah once spoke about a historical event and referenced common beliefs about that event. Later on evidence arose that contradicted the widely assumed and believed version of the story. When asked about this, 'Abdu'l-Baha explained that Baha'u'llah would have needed to speak about the historical event in the terms of the common understanding of that time. IE, if Baha'u'llah had stated how it really happened, he would have been judged as uninformed and his words would not have been heeded.
 
Old 07-18-2018, 07:31 PM   #125
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2018
From: US
Posts: 6
66. O CHILDREN OF THE DIVINE AND INVISIBLE ESSENCE!

Ye shall be hindered from loving Me and souls shall be perturbed as they make mention of Me. For minds cannot grasp Me nor hearts contain Me.

Could this refer to that we can not know God in his essence, but only through His Manifestations, but even through them there are obstacles in the way, like prejudice, and past religious traditions that make this difficult?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Old 07-19-2018, 05:37 AM   #126
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 198
68. O CHILDREN OF MEN!
Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

This reminds me of the Buddhist doctrine of not self where everything is interconnected and impermanent. It is hard not to exalt myself over the other when I am so intelligent. I've got to remember that I didn't make myself this way, God made me this way. All of my good qualities come from God, they are God's. Compared to God I am nothing.
 
Old 07-19-2018, 11:38 AM   #127
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 4,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafjava View Post
66. O CHILDREN OF THE DIVINE AND INVISIBLE ESSENCE!

Ye shall be hindered from loving Me and souls shall be perturbed as they make mention of Me. For minds cannot grasp Me nor hearts contain Me.

Could this refer to that we can not know God in his essence, but only through His Manifestations, but even through them there are obstacles in the way, like prejudice, and past religious traditions that make this difficult?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

That would be a good way of looking at that Hidden Word.

Thank you, Regards Tony
 
Old 07-19-2018, 12:14 PM   #128
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2018
From: US
Posts: 6
68. O CHILDREN OF MEN!

Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory.

(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words

This is the great equalizer. We are all human created by God. If we could see each other as all belonging to the human family we might be able to understand that in essence if I hurt you, I hurt myself, and others. We are all interconnected. There might be less finger pointing and more attempts to come together to solve many of the issues that plague this Earth on a local and international level. But first we need to see as Baha'u'llah has told us that God has created all of us from the same dust.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Old 07-21-2018, 07:59 AM   #129
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 198
69. O YE SONS OF SPIRIT!
Ye are My treasury, for in you I have treasured the pearls of My mysteries and the gems of My knowledge. Guard them from the strangers amidst My servants and from the ungodly amongst My people.

What does this mean about teaching? I don't know. I don't think I follow this. Does this mean we shouldn't teach to some people?

70. O SON OF HIM THAT STOOD BY HIS OWN ENTITY IN THE KINGDOM OF HIS SELF!
Know thou, that I have wafted unto thee all the fragrances of holiness, have fully revealed to thee My word, have perfected through thee My bounty and have desired for thee that which I have desired for My Self. Be then content with My pleasure and thankful unto Me.

This speaks for itself.
 
Old 07-21-2018, 12:34 PM   #130
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 4,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane View Post
69. O YE SONS OF SPIRIT!
Ye are My treasury, for in you I have treasured the pearls of My mysteries and the gems of My knowledge. Guard them from the strangers amidst My servants and from the ungodly amongst My people.

What does this mean about teaching? I don't know. I don't think I follow this. Does this mean we shouldn't teach to some people?
There is many passages that do say that we are to teach with wisdom and only reveal the pearls of wisdom to a seeker to the amount they are ready to partake of.

Abdul'baha was the living example of this hidden word, giving to each person what they needed.

I see with internet teaching, way to much is said to many that respond, or come with ill intent. I have seen the Faith strongly ridiculed because the conversation continued after the rejection of just a single pearl offered. As such, this Hidden Word gives us much to consider.

Regards Tony
 
Old 07-22-2018, 10:13 AM   #131
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 198
71. O SON OF MAN!
Write all that We have revealed unto thee with the ink of light upon the tablet of thy spirit. Should this not be in thy power, then make thine ink of the essence of thy heart. If this thou canst not do, then write with that crimson ink that hath been shed in My path. Sweeter indeed is this to Me than all else, that its light may endure for ever.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

This Hidden Word is hard to understand in practical terms. What is this ink of light? What is the essence of my heart?
 
Old 07-22-2018, 10:21 AM   #132
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
There is many passages that do say that we are to teach with wisdom and only reveal the pearls of wisdom to a seeker to the amount they are ready to partake of.

Abdul'baha was the living example of this hidden word, giving to each person what they needed.

I see with internet teaching, way to much is said to many that respond, or come with ill intent. I have seen the Faith strongly ridiculed because the conversation continued after the rejection of just a single pearl offered. As such, this Hidden Word gives us much to consider.

Regards Tony
When we are talking on the internet when we talk to one person other people see it. So how do we apply this on the internet when others see what they are not ready for? Perhaps we shouldn't teach on the internet at all.
 
Old 07-22-2018, 11:33 AM   #133
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 4,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane View Post
When we are talking on the internet when we talk to one person other people see it. So how do we apply this on the internet when others see what they are not ready for? Perhaps we shouldn't teach on the internet at all.
That is a very good question Duane and one I have had to consider more in recent times. Personally I have become a lot more cautious as to what conversations to enter, what replies to respond to and to how much one gives.

I see other posters and they in turn are learning the issues faced by internet conversations and I note they also adjust over time.

As with all things, it is a learning bounty for us all.

Hope you are well, regards Tony
 
Old 07-22-2018, 11:40 AM   #134
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 4,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane View Post
71. O SON OF MAN!
Write all that We have revealed unto thee with the ink of light upon the tablet of thy spirit. Should this not be in thy power, then make thine ink of the essence of thy heart. If this thou canst not do, then write with that crimson ink that hath been shed in My path. Sweeter indeed is this to Me than all else, that its light may endure for ever.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

This Hidden Word is hard to understand in practical terms. What is this ink of light? What is the essence of my heart?

Yes deep meditations. I would say just as ink is the link between the pen and the word put on paper so we can see and read, we have to consider ink in this passage.

So is it the medium of action?

To me the Essence of our Heart would be the Virtues as we are made in Gods Image. Thus would ink of this essence be a living example of these virtues?

Regards Tony
 
Old 07-23-2018, 07:32 AM   #135
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 198
To me, ink of light could be the Holy Spirit. The essence of our heart would be our emotions.
 
Old 07-23-2018, 12:31 PM   #136
Senior Member
 
Walrus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Wisconsin
Posts: 940
Sorry I'm kinda late for last week, work was hectic.

Verse 66

Verse 67

So taking these two things together, it seems like things are written in such a way that we can understand them, as we cannot fully comprehend God's majesty.

It reminds me of the countless poetic verses that are used to describe the impossibility of describing God in full.

"When the pen set to picturing this station, It broke in pieces and the page was torn." (Attar)

I also recall a verse (that I cannot find) from Baha'u'llah where he describes having tried to write about God's majesty only for the pen to break and that the words he wrote were so sweet that flies swarmed to devour the ink. Metaphorically, of course.

Verse 68

I think it's interesting that this book begins with verses talking about how we are awesome beings as we are Creations of God...

And then near the end we are reminded everyone else is also a Creation of God!!

I ... also for the first time am really considering how most of these verses essentially begins with a reminder that we are the "Son of [Metaphor for God]".

Verse 69

I think the rest of you have covered this verse well enough already.

Verse 70

"O SON OF HIM THAT STOOD BY HIS OWN ENTITY IN THE KINGDOM OF HIS SELF!"

Wow that's a fun phrase!!

Also this verse contains again an assertion of our own perfection, profound as that is to contemplate.

Verse 71

My interpretation of this would be to seek to embody God Himself. Failing that, then hold God in your heart. And should that not be possible, seek to give up attachments for God.
 
Old 07-23-2018, 12:36 PM   #137
Senior Member
 
Walrus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Wisconsin
Posts: 940
I think this week should simply be for any final thoughts on the whole of the book.

I think the book itself is amazing in how every verse seemed to be related to the verse after it. Despite covering a multitude of topics, each verse flowed into the next.

Keeping the introduction in mind, in that this book is the entirety of the heart of all religion given brevity, I think that the thing it seems to emphasize the most is our own relationship with God.

To the point where every single introduction to every single verse is basically a reaffirmation of our status and relation to God... actually thinking about it now, I think I may have almost neglected the starting phrases to each verse and may need to re-read them all. The repetition of this point, of restating over and over our relationship with God, seems to be of importance.
 
Old 07-26-2018, 06:20 AM   #138
netherworld cave dweller
 
Luqman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2018
From: Tarshish, bound for Nineveh
Posts: 43
What a wonderful thread! The Hidden Words is a portal to a vast mine of spiritual utterances, and each utterance itself is a mine seemingly inexhaustible in priceless gems. I appreciate the wisdom and insights that all the participants have contributed here. I would suggest that it is better to limit each study to only one or two quotations each time because each one is vast and profound when unpacked. Anyway, I really love it. Carry on!

Cheers
 
Old 07-28-2018, 03:55 PM   #139
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2018
From: US
Posts: 6
This was a great Deepning. I hope we can do some others in the future.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Reply

  Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Studies > Religion

Tags
deepening, hidden, words



Thread Tools
Display Modes



Facebook @bahaiforums RSS


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2018 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.