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Old 12-11-2009, 05:43 PM   #1
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Thumbs up How climate change is affecting people...

This BBC site has a broad view of videos and reports from all around the planet emphasizing how people around the world are trying to cope with climate change:

BBC News - Impact of climate change

Along with that is a report of Baha'i particpation in a conference that took place last month in Windsor Palace:

World?s major religions present action plans on environment

:cool
 
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:36 PM   #2
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Yes arthra I would echo your, cool.

Wonderful to see.

Hopefully leaders of other countries will do similar.
 
Old 03-24-2013, 02:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthra View Post
...a conference that took place last month in Windsor Palace: World?s major religions present action plans on environment :cool
From the article:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://news.bahai.org
"Baha'is believe that religious belief and spirituality lie at the foundation of human motivation and behavior," said Tahirih Naylor, a Baha'i International Community representative to the United Nations who was one of two Baha'i delegates to the Windsor event.

"We believe that efforts to change harmful human behavior – such as those actions that contribute to global warming or environmental degradation – can be greatly facilitated by processes that lead to a better understanding of our own relationship to God, and of humanity's relationship with nature. It is from such understanding that action naturally arises."
It's a shame the way Baha'is let themselves get sucked into goofy tangents like global warming. I've seen other Baha'i groups run away with Herbalife, chiropractic care, Amway. At best these mind sucks are contoversial distractions. At worst they're dishonest scams.

This is wrong, very wrong.
 
Old 03-24-2013, 03:05 PM   #4
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Right On, Pete!

Of course, we should all be good stewards of our home planet but the hysteria over man-made 'climate change' is overblown BS. Everyone needs to relax, take a breath and be concerned with real issues.
 
Old 03-24-2013, 03:17 PM   #5
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Wow Pete! You sure know how to speak your mind. . .

It's freezing cold here today, and spring is at least two weeks late here in North Carolina. . . That's all I'll say about that subject :-)
 
Old 03-24-2013, 04:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Pete in Panama View Post
From the article:It's a shame the way Baha'is let themselves get sucked into goofy tangents like global warming. I've seen other Baha'i groups run away with Herbalife, chiropractic care, Amway. At best these mind sucks are contoversial distractions. At worst they're dishonest scams.

This is wrong, very wrong.
QuoteJosh
Right On, Pete!
Of course, we should all be good stewards of our home planet but the hysteria over man-made 'climate change' is overblown BS. Everyone needs to relax, take a breath and be concerned with real issues.End quote

?? So I guess you do not believe in saving the forests of the world.
You would not be interested in the fact that certain fish species are disappearing from our oceans.
That certain animals will soon be no more.
All of these things are of no interest, not real issues?

To my mind all of these things are connected with Global Warming, and yes some maybe a little overly excited about things, but we have to listen to the science do we not.
Our planet is being and has been overly exploited by greedy large corporations for years, who pay certain scientists to try and debunk those who are concerned, like the tobacco companies, we all know tobacco is good for you don't we!

I am a little surprised to say the least
 
Old 03-24-2013, 04:39 PM   #7
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For those who doubt it, take a look here :

BBC NEWS | Special Reports | 629 | 629 | Climate scepticism: The top 10

and this one

climate change deniers - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

with massive sources, answers to readers' questions, and a general explanation of the issue !
 
Old 03-24-2013, 04:54 PM   #8
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I am not saying that global warming has not occurred in the history of the world, this may be true, science has discovered tropical forests were once on land mass in the antarctic, but then land masses have and are moving also all the time.

But as Baha'is we are told to participate in protecting the globe from exploitation.

As these quotes attest to.

In addition to addressing the issue on a fundamental spiritual level, collaboration with individuals and groups interested in improving the environment is encouraged. The Bahá'í communities are called upon to make the conservation of the environment an integral part of their ongoing activities by ...assisting in endeavours to conserve the environment in ways which blend with the rhythm of life of our community... [108] Compilations : Conservation of the Earth's Resources
As the magnitude, complexity, and urgency of environmental problems have gradually forced themselves on public attention, the logic of this prescription has become daily more apparent. The available international legislative machinery and processes are proving inadequate, primarily because they are based on laws governing nation-states. To the Bahá'í International Community it seems clear that, unless creative new steps in the restructuring of the international order can be taken, environmental degradation alone, and its long-term implications for social and economic development, will lead inexorably to a disaster of appalling dimension.
BIC : 1992 Feb 22 International Legislation for Environment Development
 
Old 03-24-2013, 06:07 PM   #9
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Of course, it COULD be like "The Day After Tomorrow"... Hopefully President Barack Obama and V.P. Joe Biden will be more open to listening to Dennis Quaid than Kenneth Welsh was...
 
Old 03-24-2013, 06:23 PM   #10
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I do not tell people what they should or should not believe. But to those that dispute the impact climate change is already having on humanity they might find these interviews from a cross section of people from around the world rather interesting to watch.

Climate voices. 7 billion Others [EN, 78min] - YouTube

Earth
 
Old 03-25-2013, 05:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthra View Post
...with that is a report of Baha'i particpation in a conference that took place last month...
No it didn't. The protest did take place at Windsor Castle--
--and Baha'is did march, but this happened over three years ago on 4 Nov. 2009. Here's a list of other global warming events that took place later that month in the UK:
Global Warming E-Mails Scandal Show Scientists May Have ...
US News & World Report | News & Rankings | Best Colleges, Best Hospitals, and more › Opinion › Peter Roff
Nov 30, 2009 – If true, the cooking of the temperature data to provide support for the idea that man-made global warming is occurring is a scandal of most ...

• Climate change: this is the worst scientific scandal of our generation ...
Telegraph.co.uk - Telegraph online, Daily Telegraph, Sunday Telegraph - Telegraph › ... › Columnists › Christopher Booker
Nov 28, 2009 – Climategate won't make global warming go away. 29 Nov 2009 ... BBC weatherman was sent climate change emails. 30 Nov 2009. Since 2003 ...

• Michelle Malkin » The global warming scandal of the century
michellemalkin.com/.../the-global-warming-scandal-of-the-cen...
Nov 20, 2009 – The global warming scandal of the century. ... The e-mail system of one of the world's leading climate research units has been breached by ...
 
Old 03-25-2013, 05:37 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by TheThinker View Post
...climate change deniers ...
LOL just like th holocaust deniers!

The fact that this issue has bypassed science and already jumped into name calling is what I meant about being sucked into goofy distracting controversial tangents. Thinker, we need to focus on the issues and not personalities. If you want we consult on temperature observations or policy recommendations, but I'll pass on the character of those with whom I disagree.
 
Old 03-25-2013, 06:12 AM   #13
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...I guess you do not believe in saving the forests of the world...
As a matter of fact I personally have set up a rain forest preserve that now has more trees than when I started, but that's irrelevant.

We need to drop this issue of my and Josh's character. We need to focus on values, and policy. We attack the idea and not which of us believes in "saving the forests of the world". We should consult on say, how there are long dead forests buried in the arctic and antarctic that once flourished back before the earth's surface temperatures dropped.
 
Old 03-25-2013, 07:24 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Pete in Panama View Post
LOL just like th holocaust deniers!

The fact that this issue has bypassed science and already jumped into name calling is what I meant about being sucked into goofy distracting controversial tangents. Thinker, we need to focus on the issues and not personalities. If you want we consult on temperature observations or policy recommendations, but I'll pass on the character of those with whom I disagree.

It's not my description, it's just the name of the article. The conclusions are for you to reach
 
Old 03-25-2013, 08:03 AM   #15
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As a matter of fact I personally have set up a rain forest preserve that now has more trees than when I started, but that's irrelevant.

We need to drop this issue of my and Josh's character. We need to focus on values, and policy. We attack the idea and not which of us believes in "saving the forests of the world". We should consult on say, how there are long dead forests buried in the arctic and antarctic that once flourished back before the earth's surface temperatures dropped.
Dear Pete, I did not think I had attacked any one, sorry if that is what you thought of my posts?

But to give headlines of one side only attacking global warming is not a legitimate argument either in my understanding. (as explained in The Brilliant Proof)
Also to label global warming with Herbalife, chiropractic care, Amway, I feel is a cheap shot. (my opinion) I for myself can swear by the benefits of chiropractic for instance having a severe back injury some years ago, the normal doctors of medicine were helpless to help me, I was staring at a life in a wheelchair and it was only through the assistance of a good chiropractor that I was able to keep on my feet and the healing I received from a good Naturopathic Doctor that left my doctors speechless and unable to explain my recovery, the chiropractor also seeing the change in my muscular condition, was also amazed but as he sad the evidence was before his eyes and for me to continue as my back muscles were strengthening. Of course my doctor was not amused by my recovery as he had been telling me that chiropractic and the naturopathic treatments were quacks and would do no good, of course the doctor refused to comment on my progress and eventual ability to return to work. So much for those who know better than others.

Dear Pete I like you very much and this is not an attack on your self but the incorrect ideas I see you speaking here.
I believe that it is something that as Baha'is we are told to support issues to protect the environment., how can this be labeled along side selling or using herbalife or amway? Are the arctic and antarctic oceans losing their quantity of Ice, are not the countries of the northern hemisphere not at this time engaged in exploiting the possibility of oil research in seas that were once covered in ice why is the glacial receding all over the world, just some of the signs of what is happening. If this is happening I don't think you can claim global warming as a scam.

Only trying to clear up this issue, if you say arthra's post was incorrect OK, I am sure we are all prepared to see your explanation as to why. But there has to be quotes etc as to proof not just an opinion.
We know that all information circling on the internet is not true, so is wonderful when someone can make a correction.
 
Old 03-25-2013, 08:15 AM   #16
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Scare mongering and 'the sky is falling' rhetoric is not protecting the environment (especially when temps have NOT risen in many years). Coal and oil generated power will not lead to the end of civilization. IMO, windmills, solar panels and carbon taxes serve mainly as a power and money grab by those who love to dictate. The UK is currently running out of electricity; people can't pay ridiculously high electric bills and many are freezing. Resources to protect the planet need to be much better utilized as chasing temperature goblins is a fools errand.
 
Old 03-25-2013, 08:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThinker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete in Panama View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThinker View Post
...climate change deniers...
...this issue has bypassed science and already jumped into name calling...
It's not my description...
Nobody said you were calling names, I'm just highlighting the direction of the thread. The conclusions are for you to reach

--but that's irrelevant. We can either focus on scientific observations (time, place, temperature) or we can agree that global warming is just a quarrel between factions that has nothing to do with either science or conservation of natural resources.

Last edited by Pete in Panama; 03-25-2013 at 08:59 AM.
 
Old 03-25-2013, 08:53 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Josh View Post
...'the sky is falling' rhetoric is not protecting the environment...
--it only makes us slaves to our fears. Some say we are created to serve the planet and others say the earth is here to serve us. Understanding this reality is best done by referring to the Sacred Text:

Quote:
Break all fetters and seek for spiritual joy and enlightenment; then, though you walk on this earth, you will perceive yourselves to be within the divine horizon. To man alone is this possible. When we look about us we see every other creature captive to his environment.

"The bird is a captive in the air and the fish a captive in the sea. Man alone stands apart and says to the elements, I will make you my servants! I can govern you! He takes electricity, and through his ingenuity imprisons it and makes of it a wonderful power for lighting, and a means of communication to a distance of thousands of miles.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 87)
 
Old 03-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #19
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Just my two cents:

My father was a widely-respected expert in forestry and range management -- and because of my work, I spend a lot of time hobnobbing with and picking the brains of foresters, wildlife biologists, plant biologists, geologists and various other scientists and experts in numerous fields either directly related to climate change, or effected by it.

From what these ladies and gentlemen are telling me, climate change is very real, and its effects are piling up at an increasing rate.
 
Old 03-25-2013, 10:47 PM   #20
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There is no denying the planet is warming. How & why is open to lots of debate

We could consider this from a religious point of view as science and religion would agree on this topic.

If we look at the spiritual state of mankind, this is reflected in the material world as everything material is but a reflection of the Words of God from the Spiritual World.

Thus the spirit of man is reaching the state of a powder keg with a fuse just about to run out. The fire of disbelief is burning at the Souls of Men, the world aflame with false worship etc etc. Thus this is reflected in the material world

That is just MHO

Regards Tony
 
Old 03-26-2013, 05:28 AM   #21
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... what these ladies and gentlemen are telling me, climate change is very real ...
You're not sharing any physical observations that the rest of us can duplicate. That suggests that rather than learning from historical measurements you instead joined an agreement with a doctrine. That's how political factions spread their dogma and gain followers and this is something Baha'is need to step back from.

Last edited by Pete in Panama; 03-26-2013 at 05:45 AM.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 05:34 AM   #22
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There is no denying the planet is warming...
Please understand that most evidence shows that when the earth formed about four billion years ago the entire mass was much hotter than it is today. Even now as we speak 30 terawatts of this original heat still radiates from the earth into space.

There is no denying the earth is cooling.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 06:52 AM   #23
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I vote we close this thread.

:-)
 
Old 03-26-2013, 07:16 AM   #24
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I vote we close this thread.:-)
You're probably right.

Problem is that then we have to accept the fact that we've not been able to consult on public issues. That in turn can raise doubts, both to our willingness to follow the guidance to join in the community discourse, and as to whether we're willing to show how Baha'i consultation is unique.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 07:45 AM   #25
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I don't know Pete.

The problem is, this particular issue is so very much tied up in politics, I am not sure it is a good topic for Baha'is to discuss at length. Baha'is simply don't have any particular expertise in the scientific issues at stake.

I have my own personal opinions of the overall quality of global warming science, based on my own very extensive reading on the topic and my years of training in earth science. But I don't feel it will be fruitful to try and convince the forum that my opinion is correct.

I'd say we Baha'is are doing a pretty good job on this topic on this forum. Any of the other message boards I frequent the participants would have been attacking one another by now, so that's a rather large step up. I just don't feel that this issue is worth us debating about especially if it ends up leading to discord, which political issues so often do.

The bottom line, which I think all Baha'is can agree on, is that human beings should not waste the natural resources of the planet. And I think we can all agree that much of today's consumerist society is a huge waste of resources. And I think we can agree that the current economic system of huge, politically connected corporations and banks enriching the top 1% through cronyism is not a sustainable type of organization for human society. Having a large debate on warming seems like a distraction from much more pressing issues facing the human race.

Just MO, of course.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 08:00 AM   #26
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You're not sharing any physical observations that the rest of us can duplicate. That suggests that rather than learning from historical measurements you instead joined an agreement with a doctrine. That's how political factions spread their dogma and gain followers and this is something Baha'is need to step back from.
Oh, there are plenty of physical observations that various scientists have passed along to me -- glaciers shrinking at an unprecedented rate, grizzly bears running out of viable food sources, because of a chain reaction started by massive white bark pine tree die-offs -- just to name a couple.

Again, judging from what I'm hearing directly from boots-on-the-ground scientists, unprecedented things are happening, at an increasing rate.

And again, these aren't people with a political agenda or a particular axe to grind. These are working scientists, or other experts in the relevant fields.

Now, whether it all adds up to a Chicken Little cause for alarm, is another matter. But the overall message is, things are changing, changing fast, and perhaps not for the better.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 10:17 AM   #27
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...this particular issue is so very much tied up in politics, I am not sure it is a good topic for Baha'is to discuss at length... ...I just don't feel that this issue is worth us debating about especially if it ends up leading to discord, which political issues so often do...
Agreed, this is a contentious factional quarrel with no relevance to either science or conservation. That raises the question as to why our Huquq funds were used to pay for sending an official delegation to the UK to march in the global warming demonstration back in Nov '09.
Quote:
Originally Posted by light upon light View Post
...we can all agree that much of today's consumerist society is a huge waste of resources. And I think we can agree that the current economic system of huge, politically connected corporations and banks enriching the top 1% through cronyism is not a sustainable type of organization for human society...
Well, maybe we can't agree on that one. It's not in the sacred text and to my ears no different from the rhetoric coming from bigoted political hacks.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 10:40 AM   #28
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...there are plenty of physical observations that various scientists have passed along to me...
My guess is that we've both got the scientific background to review those observations together. I'm thinking that we should be able to consult on whether the proposed conclusions have merit or that the supporting evidence is incomplete and needlessly controversial.

Another possibility is you don't feel you understand it well enough in which case you may want to back away from their conclusions. Yet another thought is that you understand it well enough for your own needs but you lack the time/energy/interest to waste your time trying to explain it to folks like me...

Last edited by Pete in Panama; 03-26-2013 at 10:48 AM.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 10:45 AM   #29
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Well, maybe we can't agree on that one. It's not in the sacred text and to my ears no different from the rhetoric coming from bigoted political hacks.
Pete,

You seem to think I'm in favor of the "bigoted political hacks" who claim to represent economic justice while enacting policies that enrich the well connected at the expense of the poor. Yes, I am pointing at the governments in power today in the EU and USA, for starters.

It is clear from the writings that an economic system that results in extremes of wealth and poverty is immoral and unjust, and will not continue indefinitely.

I am not a marxist or a Democrat. Nor do I believe that the supposed "solutions" of the left will accomplish anything positive.

But let's be honest. Paying banks who lost trillions of dollars of freshly printed money face value for their bad mortgage paper is a travesty of justice. Having millions of pages of regulations that force small competitors out of business and create a single huge monopoly is a travesty of justice. This is economic fascism and it is what we see today around the developed world.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 11:23 AM   #30
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My guess is that we've both got the scientific background to review those observations together. I'm thinking that we should be able to consult on whether the proposed conclusions have merit or that the supporting evidence is incomplete and needlessly controversial.

Another possibility is you don't feel you don't understand it well enough in which case you may want to back away from their conclusions. Yet another thought is that you understand it well enough for your own needs but you lack the time/energy/interest to waste your time trying to explain it to folks like me...
The part that's perhaps being misdunderstood here, that perhaps I need to explain more clearly, is that these people I'm making reference to aren't drawing any conclusions -- at least not in the big picture, political sense. As in "global warming is destroying the earth... grab a sign and yell!!"

Again, because they are professional, working scientists, plying their professional trade directly in the affected ecosystems, they are making valid observations that indicate unprecedented change.

Such as, the massive die-off of whitebark pine, which is driven by the fact that pine bark beetles are, because of warming (or more accurately, a lack of deep, larve-killing freezing during the winters) ascending to altitudes on the mountainsides which they simply have not been before. And since the whitebark is adapted to those altitudes, it lacks the natural resistance to the beetles that trees at lower altitudes have. So, the beetles therefore slaughter those particular trees.

Which, in turn, can leave grizzly bears lacking whitebark pine nuts -- which are a key food source for them in certain regions.

That's just one small example of the many things I've been hearing, regarding rapid changes that can be directly attributed to an overall warming of temperatures.

On the plus side, perhaps so to speak, some of the whitebark pine seem to finally be adapting a resistance to the beetles. And bears are finding other food sources. (However those tend to be lower down the mountains, closer to people and therefore, more likely to cause conflicts -- but that's another ball of wax.)


Again, neither I, nor the scientists I'm visit with about these matters, is trying to force any particular conclusions. It's more along the lines of an acknowledgement that yes, something is happening and yes, it has implications of major change unprecedented in both scope and rapidity.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 11:34 AM   #31
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I wasn't planning to weigh in on the subject of global warming. But I'm feeling forced to at this point.

We live on a planet which in certain eras has glacial periods. Right now we are in an interglacial period, due to enter another glacial period soon. If that happens there will be a mile-thick sheet of ice on top of Chicago.

Folks, there is NOTHING AT ALL unprecedented about drastic climate change. And God preserve us from any more glacial periods!

Last edited by light upon light; 03-26-2013 at 12:05 PM.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 11:51 AM   #32
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...bigoted political hacks.
That's some real loving terminology there, Pete
:P
 
Old 03-26-2013, 01:08 PM   #33
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I wasn't planning to weigh in on the subject of global warming. But I'm feeling forced to at this point.

We live on a planet which in certain eras has glacial periods. Right now we are in an interglacial period, due to enter another glacial period soon. If that happens there will be a mile-thick sheet of ice on top of Chicago.

Folks, there is NOTHING AT ALL unprecedented about drastic climate change. And God preserve us from any more glacial periods!
And I would say, nobody is disputing the general principle of dramatic cycles in climate.

What I'm hearing -- again from boots-on-the-ground experts -- is what's unprecedented this time around, is the rapidity at which its happening.
 
Old 03-26-2013, 01:20 PM   #34
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And I would say, nobody is disputing the general principle of dramatic cycles in climate.

What I'm hearing -- again from boots-on-the-ground experts -- is what's unprecedented this time around, is the rapidity at which its happening.
Well they weren't there last time. So they are relying on temperature proxies that are -- shall we say -- very problematic.

Not to mention that the only GOOD temperature record we have, the satellite data, shows no warming for the past decade plus.

*sigh*

I really didn't want to get drawn into this debate.

I'll go back to talking about the Kitab-i-Iqan now. . .
 
Old 03-27-2013, 03:22 AM   #35
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This BBC site has a broad view of videos and reports from all around the planet emphasizing how people around the world are trying to cope with climate change:

BBC News - Impact of climate change

Along with that is a report of Baha'i particpation in a conference that took place last month in Windsor Palace:

World?s major religions present action plans on environment

:cool
Dear all I would like to appologize to arthra,
He had olny posted here a piece of Baha'i news, as to whether it was the correct time frame is for me not important, it did happen.
I only responded to what I thought a good piece of interesting news, from there it was all downhill.

What happened to love and unity?

Again my apologize dear arthra, how wise that you never entered into this sad happening.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 06:17 AM   #36
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...we can't agree on that one. It's not in the sacred text and to my ears no different from the rhetoric coming from bigoted political hacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalStudent View Post
That's some real loving terminology there, Pete :P
Sounds like you're being facetious with your point being you consider the wording harsh. A closer look shows that I may have erred on the side of kindness. The rhetoric was obviously from Occupy Wall Street which has shown itself to include murderous terrorists ('Occupy' anarchists arrested for plotting to blow up Ohio ...) and criminal thugs (Occupy Wall Street criminal rap sheet). My attempt to be overly kind, however well meaning, should have been kept within the needs for protection of the faith and perhaps it's for that I should apologize.

We still need return to the letter written on behalf of the Guardian that began this thread--
Quote:
Man is organic with the world. His inner life moulds the environment and is itself also deeply affected by it. The one acts upon the other and every abiding change in the life of man is the result of these mutual reactions. No movement in the world directs its attention upon both these aspects of human life and has full measures for their improvement, save the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh.

(Shoghi Effendi, in a letter written on his behalf, Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, pp. 84-85)
--and learn why Haifa financed a delegation to participate in a protest that many here understand to be a contentious controversial partisan political quarrel.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 06:32 AM   #37
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Posts: 427
Pete,

Two Babis shot the Shah. Therefore they threw Baha'u'llah into the Siyah-Chal because he was a Babi.

Just because some members of Occupy Wall Street were/are thugs, does not mean that there were no legitimate grievances.

The way that Global Finance has taken over government policy in the United States and Europe is a disgrace. This is not a partisan issue, as it has continued under Obama and gotten even worse. I remember when Wall Street criminals were put in prison for their misdeeds. Today they sell their robosigned mortgages to the Federal Reserve for face value for notes that haven't seen a monthly payment in two years on property worth 1/2 the value of the mortgage. This is not justice, Pete. This is massive, widespread criminal fraud, and it is the way governments operate these days, and people are sick of it.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 11:37 AM   #38
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Joined: Aug 2012
From: Recife, Brasil
Posts: 156
Back to the thread header, this course is currently being offered by the Wilmette Institute:

Climate Change - Event Summary | Online Registration by Cvent

Quote:
In this course we will study writings and documents that will help us become literate in the science of climate change and to acquire an understanding of how it impacts us today and will continue to impact us in the future. We will also explore ethical questions related to climate change and address them in the context of the spiritual teachings of the world’s religions, especially those of the Bahá’í Faith. Other units will help us make enlightened decisions for our lives that are consistent with our spiritual and ethical values. Finally, we will learn to participate in public discourse by being empowered to present spiritual solutions to the climate crisis offered by Bahá’í texts to those who are concerned about this problem. For those interested in a more thorough study of climate change or who are interested in specific aspects of it or in its ethical challenges and spiritual dimensions, the course offers numerous optional resources.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 12:36 PM   #39
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mytmouse57's Avatar
 
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From: United States
Posts: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by light upon light View Post
Well they weren't there last time. So they are relying on temperature proxies that are -- shall we say -- very problematic.

Not to mention that the only GOOD temperature record we have, the satellite data, shows no warming for the past decade plus.

*sigh*

I really didn't want to get drawn into this debate.

I'll go back to talking about the Kitab-i-Iqan now. . .
I have to admit, I'm baffled that this should become a matter of consternation.

And also, do you not think scientists in the relevant fields took those factors you mention into account?
 
Old 03-27-2013, 01:15 PM   #40
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Joined: Aug 2012
From: USA
Posts: 297
Don't bother with Pete, it's useless.

Climate-change deniers are just a ticking time bomb of emotion. The minute you mention science, or rising sea levels, they start spewing all sorts of nonsense from fracking/illuminati/anything that works really. They will use hip replacements as an example if they can make it fit somewhere.

If you want to deny it, fine, just please be more diligent by recycling, using less gas, and maybe giving up your ancient lawnmower/carbon factory for something a little less rusty.

As for the rest of us it's best if we just tax the hell of out them and put it towards conservation efforts.

At the end of the day, the issue isn't about the climate, it's about them not wanting to be told what to do. They don't want someone else telling them to buy cleaner cars or buy a separate bin for plastic. Makes you wonder why they are even Baha'is in the first place. Do you just pay lip service to Mirza?

Yours truly,

Zhang
 
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