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| | #2 | ||||||
| Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: United Kingdom Posts: 1,717 | Quote:
You've gotta love that man Quote:
Christ was concerned with conversion of the heart and soul not rigid adherence to cultural laws and it is this which gives Christianity a universal appeal. That is the reason why religions such as Islam, replete with punitive laws, ritual cleanliness and various other regulations have never greatly attracted Western people who have really enjoyed the full benefit of the spiritual freedom which Christ proclaimed to the world in his three year ministry. It is also the reason why Mystical Islam - or Sufism - has actually greatly attracted many Westerners since its emphasis is more on inner contrition of heart, spiritual yearning for the Beloved Lord rather than outward expressions of rigorous piety as with more Orthodox minded Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims. If you asked me why I think after the Islamic Golden Age, the Muslim World collpased into a state of terrible decay and backwardness and why the Western World - which had actually lagged behind Islamic Civilisation - rose to such glorious heights, I would attribute it to Jesus Christ for the reasons presented above. As Abdu-Baha said: Quote:
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Last edited by Yeshua; 11-22-2010 at 08:24 AM. | ||||||
| | #3 |
| Senior Member Joined: Jun 2006 From: California Posts: 3,062 |
Sen, Thanks for sharing your efforts! Today this process of deduction is entrusted to the board of the House of Justice, and the personal deductions and inferences of scholars have no authority, unless they are endorsed by the House of Justice. The difference is this, that [the deductions and endorsements of the House of Justice, whose members are chosen and accepted by the entire religious community, will not give rise to conflict, whereas] the deductions drawn by individual divines and scholars immediately led to contention, and were the cause of schism, dispersion and factions. Unity of doctrine was destroyed, the unity of the Faith of God was undone, the edifice of the Law of God was shaken. Good points.. |
| | #4 |
| Senior Member Joined: Aug 2010 From: earth Posts: 700 |
Shoghi Effendi on the difference between the teachings of Jesus and Baha'u'llah: "The Revelation associated with the Faith of Jesus Christ focused attention primarily on the redemption of the individual and the molding of his conduct, and stressed, as its central theme, the necessity of inculcating a high standard of morality and discipline into man, as the fundamental unit in human society. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find any reference to the unity of nations or the unification of mankind as a whole. When Jesus spoke to those around Him, He addressed them primarily as individuals rather than as component parts of one universal, indivisible entity. The whole surface of the earth was as yet unexplored, and the organization of all its peoples and nations as one unit could, consequently, not be envisaged, how much less proclaimed or established. What other interpretation can be given to these words, addressed specifically by Bahá'u'lláh to the followers of the Gospel, in which the fundamental distinction between the Mission of Jesus Christ, concerning primarily the individual, and His own Message, directed more particularly to mankind as a whole, has been definitely established: "Verily, He [Jesus] said: 'Come ye after Me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.' In this day, however, We say: 'Come ye after Me, that We may make you to become the quickeners of mankind.'"" (Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 119) |
| | #5 |
| Senior Member Joined: Aug 2010 From: earth Posts: 700 |
"728. Those matters of major importance which constitute the foundation of the Law of God are explicitly recorded in the Text, but subsidiary laws are left to the House of Justice. The wisdom of this is that the times never remain the same, for change is a necessary quality and an essential attribute of this world, and of time and place. Therefore the House of Justice will take action accordingly. Let it not be imagined that the House of Justice will take any decision according to its own concepts and opinions. God forbid! The Supreme House of Justice will take decisions and establish laws through the inspiration and confirmation of the Holy Spirit, because it is in the safekeeping and under the shelter and protection of the Ancient Beauty, and obedience to its decisions is a bounden and essential duty and an absolute obligation, and there is no escape for anyone. Say, O people: Verily the Supreme House of Justice is under the wings of your Lord, the Compassionate, the All- Merciful, that is, under His protection, His care, and His shelter; for He has commanded the firm believers to obey that blessed, sanctified and all-subduing body, whose sovereignty is divinely ordained and of the Kingdom of Heaven and whose laws are inspired and spiritual. Briefly, this is the wisdom of referring the laws of society to the House of Justice. In the religion of Islam, similarly, not every ordinance was explicitly revealed; nay not a tenth part of a tenth part was included in the Text; although all matters of major importance were specifically referred to, there were undoubtedly thousands of laws which were unspecified. These were devised by the divines of a later age according to the laws of Islamic jurisprudence, and individual divines made conflicting deductions from the original revealed ordinances. All these were enforced. Today this process of deduction is the right of the body of the House of Justice, and the deductions and conclusions of individual learned men have no authority, unless they are endorsed by the House of Justice. The difference is precisely this, that from the conclusions and endorsements of the body of the House of Justice whose members are elected by and known to the worldwide Bahá'í community, no differences will arise; whereas the conclusions of individual divines and scholars would definitely lead to differences, and result in schism, division, and dispersion. The oneness of the Word would be destroyed, the unity of the Faith would disappear, and the edifice of the Faith of God would be shaken." ("Rahiq-i- Makhtum" vol. I, pp. 302-4; "Bahá'í News" 426 (September 1966), p. 2; cited in "Wellspring of Guidance" pp. 84-6) (Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, p. 323) |
| | #6 |
| Senior Member Joined: Aug 2010 From: earth Posts: 700 |
Shoghi Effendi explains that the Universal House of Justice can abrogate and change its own laws: "Not only has the House of Justice been invested by Bahá'u'lláh with the authority to legislate whatsoever has not been explicitly and outwardly recorded in His holy Writ, upon it has also been conferred by the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Bahá the right and power to abrogate, according to the changes and requirements of the time, whatever has been already enacted and enforced by a preceding House of Justice. In this connection, He revealed the following in His Will: "And inasmuch as the House of Justice hath power to enact laws that are not expressly recorded in the Book and bear upon daily transactions, so also it hath power to repeal the same. Thus for example, the House of Justice enacteth today a certain law and enforceth it, and a hundred years hence, circumstances having profoundly changed and the conditions having altered, another House of Justice will then have power, according to the exigencies of the time, to alter that law. This it can do because that law formeth no part of the divine explicit text. The House of Justice is both the initiator and the abrogator of its own laws." Such is the immutability of His revealed Word. Such is the elasticity which characterizes the functions of His appointed ministers. The first preserves the identity of His Faith, and guards the integrity of His law. The second enables it, even as a living organism, to expand and adapt itself to the needs and requirements of an ever-changing society." (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 22) |
| | #7 | |
| Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: United Kingdom Posts: 1,717 | Quote:
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| | #8 | |
| Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: United Kingdom Posts: 1,717 |
I like this: Quote:
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| | #9 | |||
| Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: United Kingdom Posts: 1,717 | Quote:
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Also it would seem to contradict his statement here as well: Quote:
I'm confused, sorry. Last edited by Yeshua; 11-22-2010 at 08:46 AM. | |||
| | #10 |
| Senior Member Joined: Aug 2010 From: earth Posts: 700 |
"Abdu’l-Baha replies that, in principle, the Baha’i Faith is similar to Christianity, whose scriptures also specify only a few laws." The Baha'i Faith has much, much greater detail in its spiritual laws than you will find in the gospel and also has a detailed set of guiding principles for its administrative institutions as well, as well as various teachings which are directed at the world's political leaders. Unlike Moses and Muhammad, Baha'u'llah was not a political leader. Baha'u'llah has chosen purely non-political and non-violent means to promote his religion and has forbidden religious war, which is similar to the methods of Christ and His apostles. |
| | #11 | |
| Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: United Kingdom Posts: 1,717 | Quote:
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| | #12 | |
| Senior Member Joined: Aug 2010 From: earth Posts: 700 | Quote:
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| | #13 | |
| Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: United Kingdom Posts: 1,717 | Quote:
In principle though there is no difference. | |
| | #14 |
| Senior Member Joined: Aug 2010 From: earth Posts: 700 | There is no contradiction between them. Baha'i teachings are far more complete, though, with hundreds of volumes of authenticated writings having been authored by Baha'u'llah and the Central Figures of the Baha'i Faith. Baha'i history has been recorded in far greater detail as well. Also there are Baha'i teachings directed towards the problems and conditions of the modern age, which did not exist at the time of Christ.
Last edited by bwb; 11-22-2010 at 09:08 AM. |
| | #15 | |
| Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: Canada Posts: 378 | Quote:
![]() Roman Catholic Blog: Pope Benedict XVI's New Statement On Limbo | |
| | #16 | |
| Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: United Kingdom Posts: 1,717 | Quote:
What I meant is that the Church basically stopped 'teaching' Limbo after Vatican II when it realized that it was not rational to believe that unbaptised babies wouldn't go to heaven but would go to some intermediate state called 'Limbo'. Limbo is not an official doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church or any other and never has been, so no 'official' policy has changed because limbo never made it to 'official' status but stayed in the realms of (to me irrational) medeival speculation. Benedict XVI firmly believes that God is reason. He realizes that there is a logical inconsistency with God's loving, merciful nature and a belief that unbaptised babies (inluding unborn humans) do not go to Heaven. I think that the Church just doesn't want to admit that it got it wrong. Well to be fair it never supported the view but it allowed it to be taught when it really shouldn't have (because its mince). Benedict is a very honest man however, so he has the guts to - subtly - say so. Hope that clears it up for you lol Last edited by Yeshua; 11-22-2010 at 09:18 AM. | |
| | #17 |
| Senior Member Joined: Mar 2010 From: Rockville, MD, USA Posts: 823 |
Yeshua, hi! :-) You may want to bear in mind that while Shoghi Effendi's statements are official, only certain of 'Abdu'l-Baha's works are considered Baha'i scripture! Some Answered Questions and Memorials of the Faithful, for example, are clearly scripture, but The Promulgation of Universal Peace and Paris Talks, for example, are not. Instead, the latter fall into the category of what we call "pilgrims' notes" because they weren't written by 'Abdu'l-Baha or verified by him. While they may be interesting (even helpful) reading, they simply aren't reliable enough accounts to be considered scripture. So while you may read various statements in works like--say--Promulgation, you should bear in mind that these are actually somebody else's opinion (not necessarily 'Abdu'l-Baha's) and therefore not a reliable basis for constructing Baha'i doctrine! Regards, :-) Bruce |
| | #18 | |
| Senior Member Joined: Oct 2010 From: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,635 | Quote:
Certainly Baha'i doesn't lack laws, there are many. Islam has created an entire book JUST on the laws it confers from the Quran though, with no instruction from Muhammad - just what they believe things to mean. In Baha'i, it is made quite clear that laws are to be applied with reason. Abdu'l Baha has even spoken out in this very tablet about some extreme punishments of Islam, but there is also a lot of text about wanting to HELP people rather than simply punish. It is truly awesome if you delve into this aspect, but many are already starting FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) about Baha'i being the NWO religion. They always miss the fact that Baha'i scriptures teach a change of thinking amongst the peoples of the world that permits such things because it won't be taken advantage of. | |
| | #19 | |||
| Senior Member Joined: Aug 2010 From: Leiden, the Netherlands Posts: 248 | Quote:
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This (PUP p18) is not the only place where the English term "nations" leads to difficulties. In the course of the 20th century this increasingly came to mean "nation-state", whereas Shoghi Effendi and other Bahai translators often use it in the sense of "peoples" - defined by culture not by citizenship. | |||
| | #20 | |
| Senior Member Joined: Oct 2010 From: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,635 | Quote:
I think the alleviates any implied contradiction? | |