Joanna

Hello everybody!

I have begun to read SAQ just a few minutes ago! I have already gotten to page 6 and so far I can say that I really like the text! It seems easy to read and easy to understand! For those of you who do not know, despite the English name, English is not my first language :P I am reading these books in English, because it is my soul language.

I would just like to ask a question re the book Some Answered Questions:

On page 6 it says:

He must also impart spiritual education, so that intelligence and comprehension may
penetrate the metaphysical world, and may receive benefit from the sanctifying breeze of the
Holy Spirit, and may enter into relationship with the Supreme Concourse.

OK I have two things to say about this:

1. OMG he mentions the holy Spirit...and the BREEZE of the holy Spirit! as a Christian, I am already smiling! The holy Spirit is something I recognize from my Christian faith, and I can truly dig it!! I mean, it is not something that I would have to start believe in, it is something I am already believing in! And, I am glad that it is considered a breeze...because Jesus does mention somewhere (I am not good at putting out bible quotes, sorry). that the spirit flies where it wants...

2. This is specifically a question on language, words that I don't understand:

What does he mean by Supreme Concourse. I dig what Supreme means, but what does Concourse mean? Is he referring here to GOD, I suppose?

I'd like to just know if anybody can give me some help on this

Thank you!

Joanna

On page 7 I found this bit of text:

Therefore, the Universal Educator must be at the same time a physical, human and spiritual
educator; and He must possess a supernatural power, so that He may hold the position of a
divine teacher. If He does not show forth such a holy power, He will not be able to educate,
for if He be imperfect, how can He give a perfect education? If He be ignorant, how can He
make others wise? If He be unjust, how can He make others just? If He be earthly, how can
He make others heavenly?

This Universal Educator...is that God? or is this meant to be the Messengers/Prophets?

Joanna

I'm very much impressed so far. I have found both serious discussion but also a very keen sense of humor. I had a good laugh at the fact that Abraham was supported in his faith in the Oneness of God by "Lot, His brother’s
son, and one or two other people of no importance." (page 7).

I am not saying this in any rude way or to make fun of the author etc. It's nothing like that. I just laughed because it seemed so humorous to say that the one or two other people that supported Abraham were of no importance...it just made me chuckle. I like this kind of subtle humor, so, it is good to see that a Messenger can be funny as well as give an important message also.

And just in case you are wondering about the page numbers, I am reading this in a PDF, so, it may be a different page number from how it is in a regular book

arthra

Well I'm glad you can already identify some uses of the term Holy Spirit.. "Quddus" is a word that translates roughly the Most Holy..
The Divine Spirit in Islam is called Ruh Quddus (the Divine or Holy Spirit). Quddus was a title given a foremost disciple of the Bab.

The Babis and later known as Baha'is recognize the Gospel as a Holy Scripture and Baha'is were among the first to accept the Gospel in Arabic and Farsi in Persia in the 19th century when many Muslims were not permitted to read the Gospels ..even though the Qur'an respects the Gospel. So you will find excerpts from the Gospels in the Writings along with excerpts from the Qur'an.

The term Supreme Concourse is I think close to the Cloud of Witnesses mentioned in the NT. But more specifically the Supreme Concourse means those who have gone before and lived exemplary lives and are still there for our comfort and support in the spiritual world such as Christ. Moses, the saints and soon..

Now, praise be to God, this meeting of ours is a reflection of the heavenly concourse; it is as though we had taken a mirror and had gazed into it. This reflection from the heavenly concourse we know as love.

As heavenly love exists in the supreme concourse even so it is reflected here. The supreme concourse is filled with the desire for God -- thank God, this desire is also here.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 46)

'Abdu'l-Bahá said: "The faithful are ever sustained by the presence of the Supreme Concourse. In the Supreme Concourse are Jesus, and Moses, and Elijah, and Bahá'u'lláh, and other supreme Souls: there, also, are the martyrs."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 97)

arthra

My understanding is that this refers to the Manifestations of God

Read the entire paragraph:

Therefore, the Universal Educator must be at the same time a physical, human and spiritual educator; and He must possess a supernatural power, so that He may hold the position of a divine teacher. If He does not show forth such a holy power, He will not be able to educate, for if He be imperfect, how can He give a perfect education? If He be ignorant, how can He make others wise? If He be unjust, how can He make others just? If He be earthly, how can He make others heavenly?

Now we must consider justly: did these Divine Manifestations Who have appeared possess all these qualifications or not? [1] If They had not these qualifications and these perfections, They were not real Educators.

[1 Divine Manifestations are the founders of religions. Cf. "Two Classes of Prophets," p. 164.]

Therefore, it must be our task to prove to the thoughtful by reasonable arguments the prophethood of Moses, of Christ and of the other Divine Manifestations. And the proofs and evidences which we give are not based on traditional but on rational arguments.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 10)

tonyfish58

Its a great book Joanna - There are some great statements in that book

Arthra has answered your questions well, so I will not add to that.

Cheers Tony

Joanna

Than you so much arthra for the comment, really appreciate it Thansk to all of you for the great replies and helpfulness, it really means a lot

Sen McGlinn

I think the Concourse on High or Supreme Concourse, Heavenly Concourse etc is similar to "the communion of the saints" in Christian theology:

O ye that stand fast in the Covenant! When the hour cometh that this wronged and broken-winged bird will have taken its flight into the Celestial Concourse, when it will have hastened to the Realm of the Unseen and its mortal frame will have been either lost or hidden neath the dust,
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Will and Testament, p. 9)

The Persian/Arabic phrase is mal' [ye] 'a`laa, whereas where the reference is to some lesser gathering, such as the 'concourse of rulers and divines', the word is usually not mal' but mu`ashr, although it is translated as 'concourse.' In Islamic theology the Arabic form, al-mal' al-a'laa refers to the angelic realm, but in Bahai writings it seems to include the souls of the faithful.

Shoghi Effendi almost always translates mal'-ye 'a`laa as "concourse on high", but also as:
"the Holy Ones of the Realm of Glory, dwelling in the all-highest Paradise, yearn to return to this world ..." (and the same in the Will and Testament, where "the hosts of the Realm above hastened to bestow victory."

Sometimes the more exalted word, mal' rather than mu`ashr, is used to refer to the true believers of one religion on earth, for example:
"Followers of the Gospel, behold the gates of heaven are flung open..."
and sometimes mal' is used, but it just refers to a group of people, and Shoghi Effendi translates it simply as a way of making the next word plural, for example "People of the Earth" or "rich ones on earth."

In short, it looks like the Bahai teachings have something like "the communion of the saints" which is called "concourse on high" or similar terms, but not every use of the word "concourse" in the English translations refers to this, and not every use of the term mal' in the Persian / Arabic refers to it.

Lunitik

Concourse means "a multitude of people"... from my understanding, supreme concourse would refer to the understanding of mans position in this world and how this relates to itself.

For me, this draws comparisons to a bee hive, how does each bee interrelate with the hive? For me, this is speaking of human ideal, however we are each given free will to opt in or out. Similarly, a bee can choose to get drunk from nectar, but if it returns to the hive more than once in this state, it is punished - perhaps through a wing being removed, for instance. Similarly, humans have certain ramifications for acting against the community. In this example, perhaps I would define the hive as the community, and the activity of the hive as Supreme - it is above each individual.

Lunitik

As you understand God currently, yes. The source of the knowledge of Messengers/Prophets IS God, they are inseparable. In the Baha'i Faith, there is a concept of the lamp. This lamp gives light, but the lamp is not light. We are inclined towards the light just as all plants will lean towards the sun, but we must seek the light, the lamp is insignificant without it. A Messenger/Prophet is the the lamp, God is the light.

Lunitik

In my experience, the texts are numbered universally. Pages refer to the original form of the text, not to the particular rendition you are reading. You needn't worry, if we were not enabled to discuss the text directly, it would be difficult to develop conversation around it

BruceDLimber

In fact, it simply translates as "holy."

The way you form a superlative in the language is to prefix a couple "A"s at the beginning (and then remove extra vowels).

So the superlative of "holy" is in fact "AA + Quddus" which become "Aqdas" as in "Kitab-i-Aqdas" (which I suspect is a term you're already quite famliar with)!

Peace, :-)

Bruce

Joanna

Thank you I really liked that image! I think in images, so it's a very good idea to have used an image to make me understand. Yes, God is the light and the prophets are the lamps, I can get that

thanks everybody for your contributions here in my thread