tonyfish58

I have always found it good to know, it does not matter what people may say about the Faith. Any opposition is good as in some way it helps to spread the truth

An extract from a passage taken from Selections From the Writings of Abdul'baha sums this up well

195: O thou exalted bough of the divine Lote-Tree! …
O thou exalted bough of the divine Lote-Tree! …When thou art disdained and rejected by the wicked doers be not cast down; and at the power and stiffneckedness of the presumptuous be neither vexed nor sick at heart; for such is the way of heedless souls, from time out of mind. ‘O the misery of men! No Messenger cometh unto them but they laugh Him to scorn!’ 1
Indeed, the attacks and the obstructiveness of the ignorant but cause the Word of God to be exalted, and spread His signs and tokens far and wide. Were it not for this opposition by the disdainful, this obduracy of the slanderers, this shouting from the pulpits, this crying and wailing of great and small alike, these accusations of unbelief levelled by the ignorant, this uproar from the foolish—how could news of the advent of the Primal Point and the bright dawning of the Day-Star of Bahá ever have reached to east and west? How else could the planet have been rocked from pole to pole? How else could Persia have become the focal point of scattering splendours, and Asia Minor the radiating heart of the beauty of the Lord? However else could the flame of the Manifestation have spread into the south? By what means could the cries of God have been heard in the far north? How else could His summons have been heard in 235 the continents of America and of Africa the dark? How else could the cock-crow of Heaven have penetrated those ears? How else could the sweet parrots of India have come upon this sugar, or nightingales have lifted up their warblings out of the land of ‘Iráq? What else could set the east and west to dancing, how else could this Consecrated Spot become the throne of the Beauty of God? How else could Sinai behold this burning brightness, how could the Advent’s flame adorn that mount? How else could the Holy Land be made the footstool of God’s beauty, and the holy vale of Towa 2 become the site of excellence and grace, the sacred spot where Moses put off His shoes? How could the breaths of heaven be carried across the Vale of Holiness, how could the sweet-scented, airy streams that blow out of the Abhá gardens ever be perceived by those that dwell on the Verdant Isle? How else could the pledges of the Prophets, the joyous tidings of the holy Seers of old, the stirring promises given unto this Sacred Place by the Manifestations of God, ever have been fulfilled?
How else could the Tree of Anísá have been planted here, the flag of the Testament be flown, the intoxicating cup of the Covenant be lifted to these lips? All these blessings and bestowals, the very means of proclaiming the Faith, have come about through the scorn of the ignorant, the opposition of the foolish, the stubbornness of the dull-witted, the violence of the aggressor. Had it not been for these things, the news of the Báb’s advent would not, to this day, have reached even into lands hard by. Wherefore we should never grieve over the blindness of the unwitting, the attacks of the foolish, the hostility of the low and base, the heedlessness of the divines, the charges of infidelity brought against us by the empty of mind. Such too was their way in 236 ages past, nor would it be thus if they were of those who know; but they are benighted, and they come not close to understanding what is told them. 3
Wherefore doth it befit thyself, an offshoot of the Holy Tree of God, branched out from that mighty Trunk—and it behoveth ourselves as well—so to burn, through the sustaining grace of the Ancient Beauty—may my life be offered up for His Most Holy Shrine—with this kindled flame out of heaven, that we will light the fire of God’s love from pole to pole. Let us take for our example the great and sacred Tree of the exalted Báb—may my life be offered up for Him. Like Him let us bare our breasts to the shafts of agony, like Him make our hearts to be targets for the spears decreed by God. Let us, like candles, burn away; as moths, let us scorch our wings; as the field larks, vent our plaintive cries; as the nightingales, burst forth in lamentations.
Even as the clouds let us shed down tears, and as the lightning flashes let us laugh at our coursings through east and west. By day, by night, let us think but of spreading the sweet savours of God. Let us not keep on forever with our fancies and illusions, with our analysing and interpreting and circulating of complex dubieties. Let us put aside all thoughts of self; let us close our eyes to all on earth, let us neither make known our sufferings nor complain of our wrongs. Rather let us become oblivious of our own selves, and drinking down the wine of heavenly grace, let us cry out our joy, and lose ourselves in the beauty of the All-Glorious.
O thou Afnán of the divine Lote-Tree! We must strive, each one of us, to become as fecund boughs and to yield an ever sweeter and more wholesome fruit, that the branch may prove itself to be a continuation of the root, and the 237 part be in harmony with the whole. It is my hope that out of the bounty of the Greatest Name and the loving-kindness of the Primal Point—may my soul be offered up for Them both—we shall become the means of exalting the Word of God around the world; that we may ever render services unto the Source of our Cause and spread over all the canopy of the true and holy zeal of the Lord. That from over the fields of grace, we may make zephyrs to blow, bringing to man the sweet scents that come from the gardens of God. That we may make of this world the Abhá Paradise, and change this nether place into the Kingdom of Heaven.
It is true that every one of God’s servants, and in particular those who are on fire with the Faith, have been allotted this task of servitude to Almighty God; still, the duty imposed upon us is greater than that which hath been laid upon the rest. To Him do we look for grace and favour and strength.
All praise and thanksgiving be unto the Blessed Beauty, for calling into action the armies of His Abhá Kingdom, and sending forth to us His never-interrupted aid, dependable as the rising stars. In every region of the earth hath He supported this single, lonely servant, at every moment hath He made known to me the signs and tokens of His love. He hath cast into a stupor all those who are clinging to their vain illusions, and made them infamous in the sight of high and low. He hath caused those who run after their fads and fancies to become objects of general reproach, and hath exposed the arrogant to public view; He hath made those of the friends who proved infirm of faith to serve as a warning to every beholder, and hath caused the leaders of those who waver to love but themselves and sink down in self-conceit. Meanwhile, by the power of His might, He hath made this broken-winged bird to rise up before all 238 who dwell on earth. He hath shattered the serried ranks of the rebellious, and hath given the victory to the hosts of salvation, and breathed into the hearts of those who stand firm in the Covenant and Testament the breath of everlasting life.
Convey thou the greetings of Abhá to each one of the Afnán, branched from the Holy Tree. The glory rest upon thee and upon all the Afnán who remain faithful and true to the Covenant.

Cheers Tony

Yeshua

If you want to see confirmation of how opposition can in the long-run be a good thing for a nascent religion then just look at the early history of Christianity. A persecuted sect, the most heavily persecuted in the Roman Empire, becomes the world's largest religion

Closer to home for Baha'is, look at the Babis. Their martyrdom led to the emergence of the Baha'i Faith itself which is now the most widely distributed religion after Christianity.

Orthodox

To some extent this is true, but then I look to the example of the Hermits who live isolated for the most part away from society in small huts in the middle of nowhere (this is a practice that happens today still) and continuesly pray on matters of God and their faith seems just as strong if not stronger than others despite not being in conflict. BUt there is truth in statement, that people often feel vindicated in their faith if they are being abused or persecuted.

Lunitik

The true seeker can do nothing but grow, the Baha'i Faith is not the only path the seeker can walk. Every founder of a faith can provide guidance, but even those that do not claim a faith can present truth. In fact, everything we encounter has a truth, it is up to us to decipher it. I would perhaps suggest it is dishonest to yourself to view it in context of another teacher.

If you find yourself constantly justifying a view, chances are you are actually preventing yourself from a deeper view. Perhaps this is my greatest lesson from these forums.

tonyfish58

Too true Yeshua

I like to reflect on the fact that because of this constant persecution, the Baha'i Faith in such a short time has become the second most widespread religion and only has Christianity with more locations.

The above statement is from my study of this years ago and this might have changed

To me, this is another proof of the truth of this Faith. No false religion suffers this amount of persecution and survives. This of course you will only beleive if you also beleive all the other great religions are from God

Cheers Tony

tonyfish58

The example you have given of the Hermits is that they are strong in Faith. But hidden away from society there Faith is not spreading like wildfire, no conflict, little growth

You could be right with Vindicated. My slant on the subject would have nothing to do with personal vindication of Faith though.

I have in Australia faced many a session of public verbal persecution in communities I have lived by Christian Priests. Trying to vindicate my Faith was never a motive for the conversation. It is always just to give a truth and hope it is accepted, if not I do not have to vindicate my Faith any further.

My Faith is made up of study of Scripture and I suppose the vindication of my Faith happens during that process.

When persecution commences you know the message has not been accepted and you leave it alone to run its course. This is when the truth of the message is released by the persecutor (unknown to them)

A few dedicated Baha'is I know had their Faith born out of these discourses.

Cheers Tony

tonyfish58

Very True - We all have a lot to learn

23: O thou who dost search after truth! Thy letter of …
O thou who dost search after truth! Thy letter of 13 December 1920 hath come.
From the days of Adam until today, the religions of God have been made manifest, one following the other, and each one of them fulfilled its due function, revived mankind, and provided education and enlightenment. They freed the people from the darkness of the world of nature and ushered them into the brightness of the Kingdom. As each succeeding Faith and Law became revealed it remained for some centuries a richly fruitful tree and to it was committed the happiness of humankind. However, as the centuries rolled by, it aged, it flourished no more and put 52 forth no fruit, wherefore was it then made young again.
The religion of God is one religion, but it must ever be renewed. Moses, for example, was sent forth to man and He established a Law, and the Children of Israel, through that Mosaic Law, were delivered out of their ignorance and came into the light; they were lifted up from their abjectness and attained to a glory that fadeth not. Still, as the long years wore on, that radiance passed by, that splendour set, that bright day turned to night; and once that night grew triply dark, the star of the Messiah dawned, so that again a glory lit the world.
Our meaning is this: the religion of God is one, and it is the educator of humankind, but still, it needs must be made new. When thou dost plant a tree, its height increaseth day by day. It putteth forth blossoms and leaves and luscious fruits. But after a long time, it doth grow old, yielding no fruitage any more. Then doth the Husbandman of Truth take up the seed from that same tree, and plant it in a pure soil; and lo, there standeth the first tree, even as it was before.
Note thou carefully that in this world of being, all things must ever be made new. Look at the material world about thee, see how it hath now been renewed. The thoughts have changed, the ways of life have been revised, the sciences and arts show a new vigour, discoveries and inventions are new, perceptions are new. How then could such a vital power as religion—the guarantor of mankind’s great advances, the very means of attaining everlasting life, the fosterer of infinite excellence, the light of both worlds—not be made new? This would be incompatible with the grace and loving-kindness of the Lord.
Religion, moreover, is not a series of beliefs, a set of customs; religion is the teachings of the Lord God, teachings 53 which constitute the very life of humankind, which urge high thoughts upon the mind, refine the character, and lay the groundwork for man’s everlasting honour.
Note thou: could these fevers in the world of the mind, these fires of war and hate, of resentment and malice among the nations, this aggression of peoples against peoples, which have destroyed the tranquillity of the whole world ever be made to abate, except through the living waters of the teachings of God? No, never!
And this is clear: a power above and beyond the powers of nature must needs be brought to bear, to change this black darkness into light, and these hatreds and resentments, grudges and spites, these endless wrangles and wars, into fellowship and love amongst all the peoples of the earth. This power is none other than the breathings of the Holy Spirit and the mighty inflow of the Word of God.

The following is a good reflection

Approach of Abdu'l-Baha to the Problem of Tolerance, The

Cheers Tony

Orthodox

My point tony is that faith can grow without opposition. The Hermits are proof of this.

tonyfish58

I agree - to a certain extent - Lets give an explanation a go for this......

Lets take a rose bush (The Great Religions), we know that the result of the growth of this rose bush will result in wonderful blooms. To achieve the best results the rose bush is fed manure (opposition).

Thus all the great religions achieved their full growth by being fed by persecution. The flowers of this bush are all the martyrs and faithful souls.

hermits would be rose bushes without the manure, it still may grow but will never produce the same result.

That's my feeble attempt at the difference

Cheers Tony

Orthodox

The Point is Tony, the hermits and monks still have their faith grow. Now I believe that the hermits do contribute as do the monks. Because they live apart from the world praying for the world. and Prayer does hold power. you would agree? But regardless, Faith does not need opposition.

arthra

Tony,

Thanks for opening this thread.. We need to be careful and check the source of our quotes I think what you found is from "Selections from the Writings of Abdul-Baha" rather than from "Some Answered Questions" but check your source to be sure...also the quotes contain rich allusions and allegories.. I'm citing here the reference to Anisa to illustrate how rich they are..but there are many more..


The quote above refers to the "Tree of Anisa"..

"How else could the Tree of Anísá have been planted here, the flag of the Testament be flown, the intoxicating cup of the Covenant be lifted to these lips? All these blessings and bestowals, the very means of proclaiming the Faith, have come about through the scorn of the ignorant, the opposition of the foolish, the stubbornness of the dull-witted, the violence of the aggressor. Had it not been for these things, the news of the Báb’s advent would not, to this day, have reached even into lands hard by. Wherefore we should never grieve over the blindness of the unwitting, the attacks of the foolish, the hostility of the low and base, the heedlessness of the divines, the charges of infidelity brought against us by the empty of mind. Such too was their way in ages past, nor would it be thus if they were of those who know; but they are benighted, and they come not close to understanding what is told them."

Is found on pages 235-236 of the Selections from the Writings of Abdul-Baha

The Tree of Anisa is described by Shoghi Effendi as the "Tree of LIfe"..

"The Lord, the All-Glorified," He has moreover declared, "hath, beneath the shade of the Tree of Anisa (Tree of Life), made a new Covenant and established a great Testament...

~ Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 238

Here is the Persian Hidden Word referred to:

O MY FRIENDS!

Have ye forgotten that true and radiant morn, when in those hallowed and blessed surroundings ye were all gathered in My presence beneath the shade of the tree of life, which is planted in the all-glorious paradise?

Awe-struck ye listened as I gave utterance to these three most holy words:

O friends! Prefer not your will to Mine, never desire that which I have not desired for you, and approach Me not with lifeless hearts, defiled with worldly desires and cravings.

Would ye but sanctify your souls, ye would at this present hour recall that place and those surroundings, and the truth of My utterance should be made evident unto all of you. In the eighth of the most holy lines, in the fifth Tablet of Paradise, He saith:...

~ Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)

In the Kitab-i-Iqan Baha'u'llah cites a Qur'anic verse 14:24

Even as He saith: "Seest thou not to what God likeneth a good word? To a good tree; its root firmly fixed, and its branches reaching unto heaven: yielding its fruit in all seasons

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 22

From "Some Answered Questions":


The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear.

For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition;

the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason;

and the rising of the Greatest Luminary [1] was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities.

This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity -- that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation.

From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.

[1 Bahá'u'lláh.]

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 123

In the Amewrican edition of "Some Answereed Questions" it is found on p. 141

tonyfish58

Arthra - Ta for that & I have edited the source & added that it was an extract - Obviously a senior moment as the book is right in front of me?

Cheers Tony