|09-29-2012, 05:20 AM||#1|
Joined: Sep 2012
From: New Zealand
10 Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars. 2 He was holding a little scroll, which lay open in his hand. He planted his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land, 3 and he gave a loud shout like the roar of a lion. When he shouted, the voices of the seven thunders spoke. 4 And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.”
5 Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven. 6 And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay! 7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”
8 Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me once more: “Go, take the scroll that lies open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.”
9 So I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll. He said to me, “Take it and eat it. It will turn your stomach sour, but ‘in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey.’[a]” 10 I took the little scroll from the angel’s hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour. 11 Then I was told, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings.”
Do Baha'i have any understanding on this verse?
|09-29-2012, 07:34 AM||#2|
Joined: Jun 2006
A number of Baha'is have written books on their interpretations of the Book of Revelation I own some of those books myself...
Here is one of them from "Apocalypse Unsealed" by Robert Riggs:
1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from the
heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was
upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun,
and his feet as pillars of fire:
2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he
set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot
on the earth,
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion
roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders
uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their
voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice
from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things
which the seven thunders uttered, and write them
The mighty angel is the spirit of Baha'u'llah, clothed with a
cloud of glory,_/1 the rainbow of the Convenant upon His head,_/2
His countenance shining as the sun in its median splendor,_/3 and
His feet of brass as if they were pillars of fire._/4 The little
book is the Word of God. His right foot is upon the sea of the
spirit, and His left foot is upon the world of matter. His voice
is as the Lion of Judah._/5 The seven thunders are the voices of
the seven Revelators of the seven Faiths.
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and
upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever,
who created heaven, and the things that therein are,
and the earth, and the things that therein are, and
----------------------------------------------Start of page 144--
and the things which are therein, that there should
be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel,
when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God
shall be finished, as he hath declared to his
servants the prophets.
The mighty angel reveals that the hidden mysteries of God; that
is, His precepts and commands, will be revealed at the end of the
Age of Prophecy when the Age of Fulfillment will begin. The End
of the Age will coincide with the blast of the seventh angel.
8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto
me again, and said, Go and take the little book
which is open in the hand of the angel which
standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give
me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it,
and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter,
but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey: and as
soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again
before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and
John is commanded to accept (eat) the Word of God. He discovers
that the words are easy (sweet) when they are merely spoken (in
the mouth) but are difficult (bitter) when they are actually
The prophecies of the first six angels beginning with Chapter 8
verse 7 were directed primarily to the Christians. John is now
commanded to prophesy again, this time to many peoples and
----------------------------------------------Start of page 145--
Notes to Chapter Ten
1. See Revelations 1:7.
2. Ibid., 4:3.
3. Ibid., 1:16.
4. Ibid, 1:15. Compare with the pillars of fire and cloud in
Exodus 13:21-22. In an Epistle addressed to the Czar of Russia
(_Baha'i World Faith_, p. 51) Baha'u'llah explains that His Voice
spoke from the burning bush. See also _Gleanings from the
Writings of Baha'u'llah_, pp. 16, 24, 96, 199, 269, 271.
5. See Revelations 5:5.
6. See Part One, _The Time and Space of the Apocalypse_.
See more at
Apocalypse Unsealed: chapter 10
|09-29-2012, 12:52 PM||#3|
Joined: Apr 2011
No doubt the bahail will read Mirza Ali Nuri into it, like they try to do whenever they can for any book in the bible. The problem with revelation is that it is so multi facited, the most hebrew book in the New testament with its dependency on Daniel and the Apocylapses of the Old testament, that anyone who does not have knowledge of these things can read just about anything into this book with enough thought.
One might just put Muhammad into that "commentary" that Arthra gave instead of Ali Nuri and it would be just as legitimate.
|09-29-2012, 04:18 PM||#4|
Joined: Sep 2012
Anyone can tell the truth too. The Book of Daniel was spot on with the exact date of Jesus' crucifixion, and the Book of Micah said the Christ would come from Bethlehem. Some find it easy to sit back and say all prophesies are bunk, and those people deny Christ. Big mistake. What we have to do is study and know when and why some prophesies apply along with when and why not. Studying prophesies is a lot of work, but it beats wimping out.
|09-29-2012, 09:58 PM||#5|
Joined: Dec 2010
Of my own view, I dont think that interpretatio is all that good.
Whats a cloud of glory?
THe symbol has to have an interpretative meaning.
THis is Baha'u'llahs interpretation of clouds in the second coming from the Gospel.
By these luminous, these conclusive, and lucid statements, the meaning of "heaven" in the aforementioned verse hath thus been made clear and evident. And now regarding His words, that the Son of man shall "come in the clouds of heaven." By the term "clouds" is meant those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Even as He hath revealed in the verse already quoted: "As oft as an Apostle cometh unto you with that which your souls desire not, ye swell with pride, accusing some of being impostors and slaying others." These "clouds" signify, in one sense, the annulment of laws, the abrogation of former Dispensations, the repeal of rituals and customs current 72 amongst men, the exalting of the illiterate faithful above the learned opposers of the Faith. In another sense, they mean the appearance of that immortal Beauty in the image of mortal man, with such human limitations as eating and drinking, poverty and riches, glory and abasement, sleeping and waking, and such other things as cast doubt in the minds of men, and cause them to turn away. All such veils are symbolically referred to as "clouds."
[1 Qur'án 2:87.]
These are the "clouds" that cause the heavens of the knowledge and understanding of all that dwell on earth to be cloven asunder. Even as He hath revealed: "On that day shall the heaven be cloven by the clouds." Even as the clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun,
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 71)
So cloud means those things that obscure man from recognising the manifestation of God- if I understand what is being said.
Last edited by LordOfGoblins; 09-29-2012 at 10:00 PM.
|09-30-2012, 11:39 AM||#6|
Joined: Apr 2011
|09-30-2012, 01:23 PM||#7|
Joined: Sep 2012
Biblical prophesies are good, and complaints about how others use them falls short without following though to show how they can and should be understood correctly. I suggested Daniel's date for Christ's crucifixion and Micah's place for Christ's birth. You strike me as well read, serious, devoted, and above all a fresh point of view. That's why I welcomed other good ways you had for reading "these things".