arthra

Baha'is believe that Resurrection should be understood spiritually rather than literally... So we accept that Jesus died physically on the cross and was martyred but His Spirit...could not be "killed". Resurrection can also be seen as someone who is spiritually dead has been "reborn".

"The Baha'is believe what is in the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally.."

Consider though that there were visionary experiences of the disciples that could account for somer of these "resurrection stories" and then be passed down..

Would you agree that Moses and Elijah were materially present on the Mount of Transfiguration mentoned in the 17th chapter of Matthew or was it a spiritual experience. Peter wanted to build tabernacles over them.

Was the experience of the Transfiguration on the Mount mentioned in Matthew 17 a spiritual experience? Even though Peter wante dto build a tent over Moses, Elijah and Jesus it was meant to be spiirual in nature.

One of the difficulties I see with believing in a physical literal resurrection of Jesus is that there's no scientific support for it... So when Jesus died on the cross..His body is resurrected within three days... The body appears and reappears to various people over forty days through locked doors and eats fish and so on or so and then what?

It has to ascend through the heavens on a cloud..but wait!

It then sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven until it's ready to descend in the clouds again and then according to some good Christians they're bodies are raptured into the air to meet the Lord leaving their speeding cars and airplanes to crash into whatever when they leave the earth..

When you accept a literal, physical view of the resurrrection problems occur..

Abdul-Baha indicated that the after the death of Christ on the cross the disciples were downcast and depressed..and later they restored their hope and belief that the Gospel teachings..His Message would continue...

"Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ's resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it."

Source:

http://www.bahai-library.com/writing...ha/saq/23.html

also the church of believers is often referred to as the Body of Christ so the resurrection could also rfer to the spiritual resurrection of the early Christian community, i.e., the Cause of Christ.

If you were to be in your "spiritual" body how would you know the difference between it and your physical body..

As i pointed out before there is also the issue of a spiritual experience ... You have a visionary experience which seems "real" to you. The late Gospels and even the Gnostic writers report these. Is a visionary experience any less real to you than a physical one... Consider the Transformation on the Mount... or go back earlier to the visions of Ezekiel.

Paul says something very interesting in his Second Letter to the Corinthians Chapter 12:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows.

Prophet Muhammad was supposed to have ascended to heavens and some believe this literally it's called the Night Journey..others believe it was a visionary experience and physically He didn't ascend...so this literal-spiritual issue is not restricted to Christianity.


I'm using this post to develope a presentation on the resurrection.

Jafar

Arthra,

I was just watching an interview of R. Buckminster Fuller. At one point during the interview while he is talking about how we need to change the way we use language to respect the reality of the universe and the truth of the principals that we find in it, he addresses two words in particular: animate and inanimate.

The 'animate' being the living and the 'inanimate' being rocks and things that don't possess life. At the age of 83, he continues, he has consumed over a thousand pounds of food an air, most of which he has shed. And then he says, "I am not yesterdays' vegetables."

He goes on further to say that biologists had found the building blocks of life in RNA and DNA, and that other scientists, chemists, physicists and the like were studying it. They found that what we are composed of, what has become the seed of our physical being is like unto crystals. Our physical bodies were composed of 'inanimate' things.

He goes on to conclude that 'life' was not physical at all. Whatever it is that 'we' are is not found in these inanimate objects. Rather, our bodes are like a phone that we use to talk on. He goes on to conclude that because of the evidence of science, he believes that our lives are not subject to death or decomposition like our bodies, and that he was convinced because of the evidence that they were immortal.

This makes me think of the Baha'i interpretation of 'life' in the Bible - not that the Bible didn't explicitly state it, but people must not read the part where The Christ says that true life is the life of the spirit.

arthra

Very thoughtful Jafar.. I hadn't seen that particular interview with Buckminster Fuller but he was certainly a fascinating thinker and inventer... Thanks!
I may add a few posts under this category shortly.

- Art

arthra

Resurrection as we Baha'is see it is fundamentally a spiritual event and should be appreciated more importnatly as a spiritual event.

If resurrection were purely physical it would be a magic trick and some claimed that the miracles of Jesus were "magical"...some pagan apologists called Jesus a magician...

Without the spiritual dimension the resurrection is a magical phenomena equivalent say to some Yogi or magician "surviving" death.

Resurrection was also a powerful symbol for many pagan religious groups in the eastern Mediterranean before and during the developement of Christianity..and I would suggest when these pagans became Christians they were affected or attracted to the new religion by the doctrines of the early Church and so on. This is why I think it's instructive to explore some of these eastern mediterranean religious practices and why i posted some of that material.

As to interpreting the Bible ... the literal interpretation of scripture tends to be fundamentalist and dogmatic.. If one can it is better i think to understand the symbolism and metaphor of scripture to grasp important meanings that overlooked by a literalist appraoch.

Science and religion should be in harmony... to believe say that a collection of vapour a cloud can carry a body violates what we know about God's creation...It violates nature which is God's law. Leaping off a tall building is something that the devil was supposed to have tempted the Lord Jesus in the wilderness but Jesus replied "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test". See the Gospel of Matthew Fourth Chapter.

Thomas experience as reported in the Gospel of John has more to do I think with believing in Jesus even when you have not seen Him. Read John 20:29...than it does with an apparition or appearance of Jesus in a room with the door locked...again, if we read the verses and focus on the appearance itself we could conclude it was a feat of magic rather than a spiritual experience. No one today can be sure also whether it was not a visionary experience as when Peter, John and James saw the Lord Jesus transfigured on the Mount conversing with Elijah and Moses... Luke 9:28-36.

The emphasis on the physical and literal i think led Simon to assume it was a magical phenomena and so he offered Peter silver to "give him the power". We know that Peter refused this request and accepted none of his money.

On miracles:

Baha'is believe religion and science should be in harmony...without science, religion is mere superstition.

Baha'i Faith acknowledges that there is One God.

We don't require that people believe in miracles or empahsize the miraculous as some do.

Abdul-Baha explained:

I do not wish to mention the miracles of Bahaullah, for it may perhaps be said that these are traditions, liable both to truth and to error . . . Though if I wish to mention the supernatural acts of Bahaullah, they are numerous; they are acknowledged in the Orient, and even by some non-Bahais. But these narratives are not decisive proofs and evidences to all; the hearer might perhaps say that this account may not be in accordance with what occurred, for it is known that other sects recount miracles performed by their founders ... Therefore, miracles are not a proof. For if they are proofs for those who are present, they fail as proofs to those who are absent.

...........................

Further, in the Gospel of John there are at least two places in the scripture where Jesus Himself does stresses that miracles are of less importance. Please read John 2:23 where it says:

Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs that He was doing, But Jesus on His part did not entrust Himself to them, because He knew all people and needed no opne to bear witness about man, for He Himself knows what is in man.

And in John 6:26:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled (with the Holy Spirit)."

arthra

THE substance of this chapter is this, that what is intended by the Day of Resurrection is the Day of the appearance of the Tree of divine Reality, but it is not seen that any one of the followers of Shí’ih Islám hath understood the meaning of the Day of Resurrection; rather have they fancifully imagined a thing which with God hath no reality.

In the estimation of God and according to the usage of such as are initiated into divine mysteries, what is meant by the Day of Resurrection is this, that from the time of the appearance of Him Who is the Tree of divine Reality, at whatever period and under whatever name, until the 107 moment of His disappearance, is the Day of Resurrection.

For example, from the inception of the mission of Jesus—may peace be upon Him—till the day of His ascension was the Resurrection of Moses. For during that period the Revelation of God shone forth through the appearance of that divine Reality, Who rewarded by His Word everyone who believed in Moses, and punished by His Word everyone who did not believe; inasmuch as God’s Testimony for that Day was that which He had solemnly affirmed in the Gospel.

And from the inception of the Revelation of the Apostle of God—may the blessings of God be upon Him—till the day of His ascension was the Resurrection of Jesus—peace be upon Him—wherein the Tree of divine Reality appeared in the person of Muhammad, rewarding by His Word everyone who was a believer in Jesus, and punishing by His Word everyone who was not a believer in Him.

And from the moment when the Tree of the Bayán appeared until it disappeareth is the Resurrection of the Apostle of God, as is divinely foretold in the Qur’án; the beginning of which was when two hours and eleven minutes had passed on the eve of the fifth of Jamádiyu’l-Avval, 1260 A.H., 1 which is the year 1270 of the Declaration of the Mission of Muhammad. This was the beginning of the Day of Resurrection of the Qur’án, and until the disappearance of the Tree of divine Reality is the Resurrection of the Qur’án.

The stage of perfection of everything is reached when its resurrection occurreth. The perfection of the religion of Islám was consummated at the beginning of this Revelation; and from the rise of this Revelation until its setting, the fruits of the Tree of Islám, whatever they are, will become apparent.

The Resurrection of the Bayán will occur at the time of the appearance of Him Whom God shall make manifest. For today the Bayán is in the stage of seed; at the beginning of the manifestation of Him Whom God shall make manifest its ultimate perfection will become apparent. He is made manifest in order to gather the fruits of the trees He hath planted; even as the Revelation of the Qá’im [He Who ariseth], a descendant of Muhammad—may the blessings of God rest upon Him—is exactly like unto the Revelation of the Apostle of God Himself [Muhammad]. He appeareth not, save for the purpose of gathering the fruits of Islám from the Qur’ánic verses which He [Muhammad] hath sown in the hearts of men. The fruits of Islám cannot be gathered except through allegiance unto Him [the Qá’im] and by believing in Him.

At the present time, however, only adverse effects have resulted; for although He hath appeared in the midmost heart of Islám, and all people profess it by reason of their relationship to Him [the Qá’im], yet unjustly have they consigned Him to the Mountain of Mákú, and this notwithstanding that in the Qur’án the advent of the Day of Resurrection hath been promised unto all by God. For on that Day all men will be brought before God and will attain His Presence; which meaneth appearance before Him Who is the Tree of divine Reality and attainment unto His presence; inasmuch as it is not possible to appear before the Most Holy Essence of God, nor is it conceivable to seek reunion with Him. That which is feasible in the matter of appearance before Him and of meeting Him is attainment unto the Primal Tree. II, 7.

pp. 108-109 "Selections from the Writiings of the Bab"

arthra

Know thou that the people, even unto this day, have failed to unravel the hidden secrets of the Book. They imagine that Christ was excluded from His heaven in the days when He walked the earth, that He fell from the heights of His sublimity, and afterwards mounted to those upper reaches of the sky, to the heaven which doth not exist at all, for it is but space. And they are waiting for Him to come down from there again, riding upon a cloud, and they imagine that there are clouds in that infinite space and that He will ride thereon and by that means He will descend. Whereas the truth is that a cloud is but vapour that riseth out of the earth, and it doth not come down from heaven. Rather, the cloud referred to in the Gospel is the human body, so called because the body is as a veil to man, which, even as a cloud, preventeth him from beholding the Sun of Truth that shineth from the horizon of Christ.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 168)

Behold again, the Christians are expecting the stars to fall and Christ to appear in the clouds, yet these are but symbols. They are awaiting a Christ from a heaven that does not exist.

Let us awake! Let us acquire a new intelligence in order to interpret the symbols and *37* become acquainted with the mysteries. The real Christ's spirit has come again from the supreme apex to illumine the world.

In the Gospel, Jesus said, "I am come from heaven." Physically, he was born of a woman, but the Christ's reality is from the city of eternity, for the heaven is not a place but a state of consciousness.

Man has a sacred power which permits him to discover the inner significances, the reality of invisible things. Ponder over these statements, so that the portals of divine wisdom and infinite knowledge may open before thy face.

I wish to awaken you out of your deep slumber. Do you know in what day you are living? Do you realize in what dispensation you exist? Have you not read in the holy scriptures that at the consummation of the ages there would dawn a day -- the sum total of all past days? This is the day when the Lord of hosts hath come on the clouds of glory. This is the day in which the inhabitants of the world shall enter under the tent of the word of God. This is the day whose real sovereign is His Highness the Almighty. This is the day when the east and the west shall embrace each other like unto two lovers; war and contention shall be forgotten and nations and governments shall enter into an eternal bond of amity and conciliation. This century is the fulfillment *38* of the promised century, the dawn of the appearances of the glorious visions of past prophets and sages.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 36)

arthra

As to the resurrection of the body of Christ three days subsequent to His departure: This signifies the divine teachings and spiritual religion of His Holiness Christ, which constitute His spiritual body, which is living and perpetual forevermore.

By the "three days" of His death is meant that after the great martyrdom, the penetration of the divine teachings and the spread of the spiritual law became relaxed on account of the crucifixion of Christ. For the disciples were somewhat troubled by the violence of divine tests. But when they became firm, that divine spirit resurrected and that body -- which signifies the divine word -- arose.

Likewise the address of the angels to the people of Galilee, "That this Christ will return in the same way and that He will descend from heaven," is a spiritual address. For when Christ appeared, He came from heaven, although He was outwardly born from the womb of Mary. For He said: "No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven."

He said: "I came down from heaven and likewise will go to heaven." By "heaven" is not meant this infinite phenomenal space, but "heaven" signifies the word of the divine kingdom which is the supreme station and seat of the Sun of Truth.

To be brief: The mysteries of the Holy Books are many and require explanation and elucidation. I hope thine insight will be so opened that the divine mysteries may become manifest and clear.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 191)