poppa

hello,
I am a non practicing catholic and am in a relationship with a Bahai girl. I have joined her ruhi study group and am enjoying learning about the faith. Her mother is also in the group so i have a few questions that i dont really feel comfortable asking during our sessions...

I am a firm believer that two people should live together to make sure that their relationship can survive the ups and downs of living with a partner before getting married. I understand that in the Bahai faith it is forbidden/frowned upon? for two people who are not married and in a relationship to sleep in the same bed...or under the same roof?

We have had sex in the past and I believe this is a healthy part of any relationship. I know that sex out of wedlock is forbidden and my partner now feels that she wants to stay true to her religion and save sex until we are married. I feel that we are both young to get married (22&23) and i'm not sure I can wait until we get married to show our love for one another.

If anyone has any advice or information regarding their experiences with these issues I will greatly appreciate any feedback.

arthra

Hello Poppa!

Welcome to Baha'i Forums..

You are correct! Having sexual relations outside marriage is agaiinst Baha'i law.

I think Catholics also would approve of this..

Marriage in the Baha'i Faith also requires the consent of all living parents of the prosepctive couple ...

Baha'is have no restrictions about who they can marry as far as religion goes..

The Baha'i marriage is very simple.. You would need to go before a Spiritual Assembly and request it.. When the Assembly is satisfied that the requirements are met that your parents approve as well as her's they will assign two witnesses to be present when you recite the affirmation:

"We will all verily abide by the will of God."

arthra

Like wise "co-habitation" or even the apprearance of cohabitation is forbidden Baha'is..

The House of Justice is sure that your Assembly is aware that it is not permissible for Bahá'ís to enter into such an immoral relationship and that any believers who do so must be counselled by the Assembly and warned to correct their conduct, either by separating or by having a Bahá'í marriage ceremony in accordance with the provision of Bahá'í Law. If, after repeated warnings, the believers concerned do not conform to Bahá'í Law, the Assembly has no choice but to deprive them of their voting rights.

Letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice, dated September 7, 1981, in Lights of Guidance, p. 379

The Guardian has instructed me to say that companionate marriage, where there is no legal or religious marriage, is an immoral relationship and we cannot accept as believers those who are openly behaving in this way.

Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated September 26, 1957, to a National Spiritual Assembly

lukasali

Hi poppa!

Arthra is correct, it is unambiguously stated in authoritative Baha'i teachings that sex outside of marriage is against the laws of Baha'u'llah.

However, I personally feel that it is important to understand a few things about that. One is that Baha'i institutions (and individuals enrolled in the Baha'i Faith) have absolutely no right to judge or interfere in any way with non-Baha'is, or to hold others to Baha'i standards. I mention this because the above post may come across as somewhat judgmental, even though I'm certain that was not Arthra's intent.

It is also my understanding that the laws of Baha'u'llah are not intended to be punitive, but rather nurturing. The laws are a priceless gift. As Baha'u'llah says,

O ye peoples of the world! Know assuredly that My commandments are the lamps of My loving providence among My servants, and the keys of My mercy for My creatures...Were any man to taste the sweetness of the words which the lips of the All-Merciful have willed to utter, he would, though the treasures of the earth be in his possession, renounce them one and all, that he might vindicate the truth of even one of His commandments, shining above the day spring of His bountiful care and loving-kindness.

And further:
"Were men to discover the motivating purpose of God’s Revelation, they would assuredly cast away their fears, and, with hearts filled with gratitude, rejoice with exceeding gladness."

And finally:
“Observe My commandments, for the love of My beauty.” Happy is the lover that hath inhaled the divine fragrance of his Best-Beloved from these words, laden with the perfume of a grace which no tongue can describe.

I bring this up, because for a Baha'i, striving to conform our lives and actions to the teachings of Baha'u'llah is a very important and sacred process. While it can certainly be a challenge, and may even at times go against conventional wisdom or our own personal ideas, nevertheless as Baha'is we need to trust Baha'u'llah and act on His exhortations. I know that abstaining from sex before/outside of marriage goes against what many people may think is prudent, but I also know from personal experience that any effort made to transform one's life to be in closer conformity with the Divine Teachings is ultimately worth the sacrifice.

I imagine that you and your girlfriend will learn a lot about yourselves and each other of you are able to openly and honestly talk about your situation together; I certainly hope that is the case.

All the best!
Lukas

arthra

Poppa,

What Lukasalui said is correct..

It's important though to note our standards are high.. and are sometimes unstated or overlooked and this even for Baha'is themselves can be problematic..

Pollwr

Hi, Poppa.

One point you mentioned was
"I am a firm believer that two people should live together to make sure that their relationship can survive the ups and downs of living with a partner before getting married. "

Although, as outlined in the above comments, Bahá'ís are not suposed to live with their boyfriend/girlfriend before marriage, you raise a good point. In the Faith there is a lot of emphasis on getting to know the character of someone inside out to be sure the relationship can handle the ups and downs of life.

I wish you and your girlfriend all the best of luck. It is not an easy dillema. There are so many pressures and living together is cellebrated as a perfectly normal good thing to do in many societies.

Pollwr

Poppa,
I know I just posted but I had another thought with regard to testing a relationship. Sex is a very powerful bond, but not so long lasting in the scheme of things. You meet the most ill-suited couples who live together for a year or two, then don't want to know one-another. To really test a relationship, maybe the getting to know without the sex is a real decider. Maybe if you can be friends, and really appreciate that person first makes things stronger. Strangely that thought only just struck me as one reason for this law we have and I have been a Bahá'í for some time.

thebiggloveyou

define marriage. some laws are not in full effect in some areas, some are guidelines, some are strict, and some are for forbidden things. i am not trying to dispute the laws. marriage at its foundation is based on love. if both are devoted Bahai's then they can follow the laws to the fullest, including the dowry. Sometimes, for whatever reason, a common law marriage may be established. but to the original poster. admit it, dude. you just want to test the goods and drive the car. if you can't wait to get married for whatever reason, find another car to test drive w/o a drivers license. and common law shouldn't be abused either. it's not a loophole to get the goodies.

seeker

me and my boyfriend lived together nearly 2 years . he is a baha'i I am not. last month we separated and I am 7 m pregnant. Bahai faith is very dictating with peoples life. it looks very modern from outside but inside is controlling it is very hard non-baha'i person. I am a mature person and I can't accept faith's controlling requirements for marriage. people who is dating or planning to marry Baha'i's think again. how much you are able to give up yourself and your principles. I didn't see his family or his community to help to us with our problem other than causing problem for our relationship.

arthra

Well you see family is very important for our Faith and it builds strong communities..

My wife and I got married in the Faith and so we got our parents approval. So both sets of parents helped us when we needed it..

All of our four children were raised in the Faith and after they had investigated around fifteen years of age they each formally declared their Faith..

I would say because of our strong family supports we weathered many a storm that would have scattered other couples..

Now after thirty seven years of marriage we're still together..

I don't know all the details of your relationship seeker and frankly they should be confidential and are none of my business but the Faith has been very good to us and provided needed guidance along the way.. :cool

seeker

I am sorry that my message made you upset . I just wanted to give message people from different paths to be aware what they can face up. I am happy that your relationship worked because you are from both same belief system.

do you believe that kids who did grow up with bahai faith uptill 15 has much choice. of course not. I am sorry to say but your belief system is not very modern almost like a sect of an islam , how u pray how you fast. and there are so many people from inside of your organisation who is affraid to talk anything bad about it because they might be announced as an covenant breaker and has to leave loved one behind. because punishment is way too heavy. this is not attact to your belief system but you guys need to learn to take critisizm with tolerance.

thats all

BruceDLimber

Seeker, you couldn't be more wrong!

Baha'is have full freedom to hold opinions and to express them!

And we don't find our ethical system and its institutions confining, the more so because they're there to assist us!

Granted, we have standards when it comes to marriage and other things, but I hope you realize we've all become Baha'i voluntarily and thus CHOOSE to live by these!

If you don't, fine; and we won't condemn you for this.

So now if you can simply avoid condemning us for our beliefs and practices, we should be able to get along just fine!

We're not here to lay a trip on you, and would greatly appreciate it if you didn't try to to the same thing to us.

(And BTW, I've been happily married in the Faith for 32 years and have an adult son who's chosen to be a Baha'i. Letting a child wait until age 15 to make this decision works very well for us, and some become Baha'i; some don't. Not a problem.)

Peace,

Bruce

arthra

Seeker,

I wasn't "upset" at all..hardly..

Our Faith by the way is based on the revelation of the Bab and Baha'u'llah if that seems old fashiooned to you I can't help that..

The Faith you will find is fairly conservative when it comes to moral values.

We don't try to appear "modern" or liberal or conservative .. We're just Baha'is.:wink

On "covennat breaking".. I can tell you very very few have been identified as such.. I heard of one case away back in let's see now ohhh late nineties.. .

People who are free thinking and free speaking are not ipso facto breaking the covenant..