bwb

Kissing on the mouth involves a completely unnecessary risk of spreading disease, and shows what a dangerous brain-washing medium television is.


1210. Kissing in Modern Society is Detrimental to Morals

"What Bahá'u'lláh means by chastity certainly does not include the kissing that goes on in modern society. It is detrimental to the morals of young people, and often leads them to go too far, or arouses appetites which they cannot perhaps at the time satisfy legitimately through marriage, and the suppression of which is a strain on them.

"The Bahá'í standard is very high, more particularly when compared with the thoroughly rotten morals of the present world. But this standard of ours will produce healthier, happier, nobler people, and induce stabler marriages."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, October 19, 1947)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 360)




"Anti-kissing campaign in Egypt
Doctor warns smooching could lead to spread of avian flu
Posted: June 20, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

A Cairo pediatrician has launched an anti-kissing campaign in Egypt, warning the practice – even smacking on the cheek – can spread diseases such as avian flu.

Adel Ashur founded the organization No Kisses After Today, saying exchanging smooches can also pass on tuberculosis, meningitis, herpes and hepatitis B, bronchitis, scarlet fever, measles, German measles, common colds, boils and abscesses.

"Despite cynical reactions at the beginning, the Egyptian intellectual layer has started to take this idea seriously, understanding that this habit is unhealthy," he told Albawaba.

To date, Egyptian medical authorities report no cases of bird flu being transmitted person to person in the country. But Ashur says the virus could be in the incubation phase with the person carrying it not exhibiting any of the disease's symptoms. He fears an epidemic once that latency period is over.

A 4-year-old girl tested positive for bird flu last week, bringing to 36 the number of people in Egypt infected with the deadly virus strain since February 2006.

Ashur warns mothers, especially, not to permit their children to be kissed. He says kids under 14 have immune systems that are not fully developed.

"Every Egyptian mother should be very determined in foiling attempts of others to kiss their children, even if they get angry responses," he said."

Sources for the article "Anti-kissing campaign in Egypt":
FulfilledProphecy.Com • View topic - Anti-kissing campaign in Egypt
Anti-kissing campaign in Egypt

Orthodox

Yeah, of course.

arthra

Wow..Thanks for posting that bwb...! I haven't seen that particular letter cited in the Lights of Guidance..

I checked my copy and there's a note referring to #1438 and I'll see if I can post it here...

Pilgrim's Notes Reporting the Master's Words on Embracing and Kissing

"The pilgrim's note reports the Master as saying: 'Women and men must not * embrace each other when not married, or not about to be married. They must not kiss each other... If they wish to greet each other, or comfort each other, they may take each other by the hand.' In a letter to an individual written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi it is said: 'The Master's words to... which you quoted, can certainly be taken as the true spirit of the teachings on the subject of sex. We must strive to achieve this exalted standard.' (October 19, 1974)

(From a letter of the Universal of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, February 10, 1974)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 439)

Sen McGlinn

When the compilation "A Chaste and Holy Life" was prepared in 1990, the "kissing" part of this was omitted:


Shoghi Effendi writes:

bwb

Here is a youtube video (2 minutes 18 seconds) that mentions the epidemic of mononucleosis, the "kissing disease" on college campuses. There is an incubation period of 4 to 8 weeks, so someone may have mononucleosis and transmit it to someone else, even though he/she has no symptoms. Not normally fatal, but it will make you sick for a week to a month.

People mindlessly imitate behaviours seen on television and this is the unfortunate result!

Orthodox

Romans 16.16a — "Greet one another with a holy kiss"

I must say kisses are not evil nor are they are thing forbidden. But It depends on how one uses it, as all things can be abused.

arthra

I somehow doubt though that the definition of "holy kiss" included a full mouthed kiss...

Orthodox

Who said it was? It is more akin to a short peck I believe..

bwb

Romans 16:16 possibly refers to a greeting by kissing on the cheek between members of the same gender, which presumably was a custom at that time, but is not a Christian religious obligation, I don't think.

whine of astonsihment

This is all very interesting as it relates to morality, health, etc., but I would be much more interested to learn about the prohibition against of 'kissing hands' in the Aqdas because I don't believe it relates to the issue of chastity.

Is there any additional background or information about this? I have always been curious about the purpose of this, both because it's such a major part of the culture of my Orthodox upbringing and because Baha'u'llah judged it important enough to make it one of His prohibitions.

bwb

"57. The kissing of hands hath been forbidden in the
Book. # 34

In a number of earlier religious Dispensations and in certain
cultures the kissing of the hand of a religious figure or of a
prominent person was expected as a mark of reverence and
deference to such persons and as a token of submission to
their authority. Bahá'u'lláh prohibits the kissing of hands
and, in His Tablets, He also condemns such practices as
prostrating oneself before another person and other forms of
behaviour that abase one individual in relation to another."

(note 57 of The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 193)

An obvious reason for prohibiting it is simply that Baha'is have no clergy. We have democratically-elected 9-member assemblies.

whine of astonsihment

Thank you! THANK YOU! You prompt, knowledgeable, sweet soul bwb! I don't know why I haven't been able to find that note on my own!

While the 'letter' of this law itself is understandably, relatively ignored in societies where it is not commonly practiced, the 'spirit' of this law as explained by the information provided in that 'note', is indeed very applicable and relevant to the generally Western/democratic societies that don't relate to it at all.

To someone of my own cultural and familial background and no doubt to many of completely different backgrounds, it covers a whole world of social implications than 'simply because we have no clergy'. We have plenty of 'pseudo-priests' in many aspects of even the most secular of democratic societies and there's plenty of social 'hand kissing', 'prostrating' and other forms of 'self-abasing' behaviors in our individual inter-relationships that have nothing to do with sex, physical cleanliness, or sound public health policies.

But that's whole other thread I would like to address in a different sub-forum. Thanks again!

Orthodox

It very much is a christian obligation I believe. This is paul addressing the Romans and not only the romans but others which shows this was a practice immitated by the early christians whom held Christ.

LarryK32

So this would be okay as a way of showing affection, though? Between a husband and wife?

arthra

The issue of kissing the hand is related to accepting someone's authority at least tradtionally.. It's a custom of kissing a ring of authority and so on..similarly prostrating oneself to an authority would be along the same lines.

We also don't use pulpits in the Baha'i Faith as they are used say in Christianity and Islam.. Mosques have pulpits where the Ulama or other athorities "lord it over people.."

What was being addressed has nothing to do with the Aqdas but rather in my view the habits of familarity that are displayed in public between men and women..

"The world today is submerged, amongst other things, in an over- exaggeration of the importance of physical love, and a dearth of spiritual values. In as far as possible the believers should try to realize this and rise above the level of their fellow-men who are, typical of all decadent periods in history, placing so much over-emphasis on the purely physical side of mating. Outside of their normal, legitimate married life they should seek to establish bonds of comradeship and love which are eternal and founded on the spiritual life of man, not on his physical life. This is one of the many fields in which it is incumbent on the Bahá'ís to set the example and lead the way to a true human standard of life, when the soul of man is exalted and his body but the tool for his enlightened spirit. Needless to say this does not preclude the living of a perfectly normal sex life in its legitimate channel of marriage."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, September 28, 1941: Messages from the Universal House of Justice, 1968-1973, pp. 108-109)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 360)

Kissing between a husband and wife and showing affection of course has it's place in married life.


Abdul-Baha is not opposed to showing affection to children:

Caress and kiss on my behalf, with utmost love and yearning, thy two dear children. I supplicate God that thy may become the servants of the Cause of God as their father and mother have, and be trained according to Bahai education, so that they may become two great signs of the love of God.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v2, p. 265)

Yeshua

:wub

I'm afraid to admit that the 'holy kiss', in the cultural context of the first century AD, was most likely a full-mouthed kiss. I've used various sources in writing this post and they all seem pretty authoritative to me. According to them, early Christians kissed each other in a variety of different rituals, as part of prayer, baptism, Eucharist, everyday greeting, martyrdom, and so forth. In the first two centuries, at least, not only did men kiss other men and women other women, but men and women kissed one another. And most often this was a kiss on the lips. In fact the evidence seems to suggest that it was always on the lips. This had a symbolic meaning and was not sexual in nature (as in modern french kissing with the tongue). Kissing often was seen as involving a transfer of spirit; when you kissed someone else you literally gave them part of your soul. This is because in the Bible the hebrew word for spirit 'ruach' also meant 'breath'. When God breathed into Adam he became a living being. The 'breath' is the life of a human being, one's essence, one's life force, indeed one's soul and so kissing the exchange of that God-given breath of life was seen as one of the most holiest of acts. It stressed the perfect equality of all mankind, whereas a kiss on the cheek said that one was inferior to the other. The early church expanded on this and claimed that, when Christians kissed, they exchanged the Holy Spirit with one another. Christians also emphasized the kiss as an indication of mutual forgiveness (it’s from here that we get the term “kiss of peace”). These different meanings influenced and were influenced by the sorts of rituals kissing became associated with.

It is thought that the holy kiss may stem from John 20-21-23: “So Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you; as the
Father has sent Me, I also send you.’ And when He had said this, He breathed on them and
said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been
forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.’”

Similarly, Jesus'' “kiss” seems to be related to Genesis 1:7: “Then the LORD God formed man of dust from
the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living
being.” Just as God breathed life into the first man, Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into His
disciples. The holy kiss, then, may have been practiced with the belief that it passed the
Holy Spirit between believers.

If that is true, it should be obvious that the holy kiss involved mouth-to-mouth contact.

Here are some quotes from the Church Fathers (Christian Authoritative Tradition) on the 'holy kiss':

Clement of Alexandra (c.150 - c. 215):

"There are those who do nothing but make the church resound with the kiss."


Chrysostom (4th C):

“We are the temple of Christ, and when we kiss each other
we are kissing the porch and entrance of the temple.”



Augustine (4th C):

"when your lips draw close to the lips of your brother, let your heart not draw away."

These of course stress that the kiss must not be for sexual pleasure. It must be pure and edifying.
Hope this helps :wub

whine of astonsihment

Thanks so much Yashua - that was really interesting!:wub

bwb

KISS in the Bible Encyclopedia - ISBE (Bible History Online)
KISS

(nashaq; phileo, kataphilo, philema): The kiss is common in eastern lands in salutation, etc., on the cheek, the forehead, the beard, the hands, the feet, but not (in Pal) the lips (Cheyne, E B, under the word "Salutations").
...There is reason to believe that, as a rule, men only thus greeted men, and women, women. In the Apostolical Constitutions (3rd century) it is so enjoined.

Greet One Another
Philema is the Greek word used for "kiss" in the New Testament. Philema comes from the same root as the word phileo which is the word for "brotherly love." Phile means friend. The word is talking about a friendly kiss as a greeting. This is not a kiss of passion between a man and a woman. This is the kiss of a friend. Like a kiss on the cheek.

The Holy Kiss
The New Testament Greek word for kiss is philema, which is derived from phileo, to love,
but it is important to distinguish the kind of love. There are three Greek words for love:
agapeo – selfless love, eros – romantic love, and phileo – brotherly love. Eros is not used
in the New Testament. Agapeo (noun, agape) is the kind of love God shows for us and
Christians are usually called to practice toward others. Phileo is the cordial love of a friend
or relative. So there is nothing inherently erotic about a philema.

Kiss, Holy — GAMEO
In his description of the worship services of the Christians of the second century, Justin Martyr reported that the kiss was regularly used. The Apostolic Constitutions stated: "Then let the men apart, and the women apart, salute each other with a kiss in the Lord."

Orthodox

A kiss on the lips does not have to be eroitc, we have all kissed our parents as children on the lips at one point.