arthra

Some of us on this Forum.. will be fasting tomorrow March 2nd from dawn till dusk .. that means abstaining from solid and liquid food during the day. For someone just starting to fast this can appear to be awesome and difficult... so this thread should be dedicated for friends that have these issues and maybe more questions, etc.

There are special prayers revealed for the Fast at:

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’í Prayers: A Selection of Prayers Revealed by Bahá’u’lláh, the Báb, and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 238-245

I find that focusing on these prayers or the ones you choose to recite accomplishes a few things.. We can deepen on the Writings and it will distracts us from immediately gratifying our tummies when the hunger bell rings!

Here are some extracts on Fasting:

"...prayer and fasting is the cause of awakening and mindfulness and conducive to protection and preservation from tests...."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 367

I hadn't read this one before but it relates I think:

Exaggerated fasting destroys the divine forces. God has created man in a way that cannot be surpassed; we must not try to change his creation. Strive to attain nearness to reality through the acquisition of strength of character, through morality, through good works and helping the poor, through being consumed with the fire of the love of God and in discovering each day new spiritual mysteries. This is the path of intimate approach.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 98

A letter which was signed by you in general was received. Its content was of the utmost beauty, sweetness, eloquence and perfection. While reading it the utmost happiness was produced. It spoke of fasting during the month of the Fast. Happy is your condition for you have executed the divine command; and have arisen to fast in these blessed days. For this physical fasting is a symbol of the spiritual fasting, that is, abstaining from all carnal desires, becoming characterized with the attributes of the spiritual ones, attracted to the heavenly fragrances and enkindled with the fire of the love of God.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 40

Exemptions from Fasting:

Exemption from fasting is granted to:

(a) Travellers
i. Provided the journey exceeds 9 hours.
ii. Those travelling on foot, provided the
journey exceeds 2 hours.
iii. Those who break their journey for less
than 19 days.
iv. Those who break their journey during
the Fast at a place where they are to stay
19 days are exempt from fasting only for
the first three days from their arrival.39

v. Those who reach home during the Fast
must commence fasting from the day of
their arrival.

(b) Those who are ill.
(c) Those who are over 70.
(d) Women who are with child.
(e) Women who are nursing.
(f) Women in their courses, provided they perform
their ablutions and repeat a specifically revealed
verse 95 times a day.[5]
(g) Those who are engaged in heavy labour, who
are advised to show respect for the law by using
discretion and restraint when availing themselves
of the exemption.

- From the synopsis and codification of the Kitab-i-Aqdas p. 38

Youth under fifteen are exempt from fasting..

Essence of GOD

iam engaged in heavy labor at 8 pm at nights for 4 hours, is it ok to just drink water? and still be fasting.
do we eat for 12 hours and stop eating the next 12 hours? or do we eat at dawn only once, and at evening only once?
this is the first time im fasting, ts not the physical aspect that worries me, its my disturbed mind. lol

Sen McGlinn

At the beginning of the month, there should be time for a meal after sunset, and before you begin work. As the days get longer, that may be difficult, depending on where you live. However if you finish work at midnight, getting up for breakfast before dawn might leave you short of sleep, and that is not the intention! A few days short of sleep can lower your mental abilities, and the spiritual experience of the fast, significantly. The fast is naturally designed for people who work in daylight hours, so in your case you might have to make a personal adjustment, so you can get proper sleep, and at least something to drink at the start of the day.

I would say, keep the fast in spirit, and as near to the letter as is practicable

arthra

Sen's advice above is fine..but I'm not sure exactly what you're asking..

If you work at night you don't have to fast during that period, that is work after sunset... so drinking water after sunset regardless is fine..

The fast is only between dawn and sunset.. so we eat and drink prior to dawn and after sunset.

What do you mean your "disturbed mind" if you don't mind sharing that?

tonyfish58

Day one over 18 to go

Fasting is from sunrise to sunset. Sunset to sunrise you can partake of food and drink to your hearts content (or tummy)

As you work nights you have no restriction on eating or drinking.

I assume you would go to bed sometime around 1 or 2am then wake up mid morning - so you have to make a choice. Do I set the alarm to have breakfast before the sun rises and then go back to bed, or, do not worry about it wake up and fast for the rest of the day until sunset?

As for me working days - I have a drink of water, eat cornflakes and have a cup of tea before sunrise and then have a drink of water or two and eat dinner and have a couple of cups of tea after sunset.

Its up to each person to decide how they will do their fast - The important thing is it is a period to remember God and what we are supposed to do with our chance with life

Cheers Tony

arthra

Tony.. Great work..err Fast!

Essence of GOD

awesome, thanks for replies, everything seem to work out every time i do something to get closer to God.
is it just me or that was one of the best breakfast i had?
what an amazing morning, i feel refreshed, this is just awesome

arthra

You've noted something very important:

everything seems to work out every time i do something to get closer to God.

That works for fasting.. and it works for a lot of things.. I've seen it many times with the Local Spiritual Assembly too.. Helps us get ready for Ridwan!

RuhiWarrior19

This Fast I am adding deepening from the compilation book 'Call to Remembrance' to my morning and evening devotions. It is a selection of quotes from Baha'u'llah about Himself and His life, with some from Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi thrown in, and a few from Nabil Zarandi regarding Baha'u'llah's early life. It is excellent. I am also emphasizing using the Fast prayers, and as always striving for complete obedience to obligatory devotional practices.

I did figure out a problem this morning. I woke up at 6:00 AM, with 52 minutes before sunset. I said some prayers and then went to cook eggs, and the cooking noise woke up one of the people I live with. Until after Daylight Savings Time switches over I will have to eat preprepared breakfasts. I am making hadboiled eggs tonight!

LordOfGoblins

hmm need water... water I say. Pant pant. dieing...
no but really. I am left thinking this morning is the fast more psychological than physical?
Maybe we only really need water when we sweat and I am working in an airconditioned office- still been damn hot last couple weeks i might add.
Here in australia I think it is the drinking water rather than eating that is harder for people. Obviously Baha'u'llah would not have made this commandment if our bodies could not take it.

tonyfish58

We could keep this going for the whole fast

Day 2 just about done 17 to go

LordOfGoblins has said "Here in australia I think it is the drinking water rather than eating that is harder for people. Obviously Baha'u'llah would not have made this commandment if our bodies could not take it".

That is especially so here in FNQ - But if you put your mind to it, lets face it - we are not going to pass away because we did not have a drink for 12hrs.

It is mind over matter - If you do not mind it does not matter

Cheers Tony

gusash

Would a 1 1/2 hour karate lesson count as heavy labour? Or should I just not do karate throughout the fasting period?

gusash

Also my mum has kidney stones and my doctor has actually said I should drink water throughout the fast as I could get them if I don't drink enough water, especially in Australia. And apparently that's possible here either way, with the temperature the way it is. Is it possible Baha'u'llah just didn't know about kidney stones? This is another problem for me, I want to believe that the Manifestations know all these things, but wouldn't it be horrible if I did end up getting kidney stones from not drinking water. I think that would actually make me lose faith.

tonyfish58

That would be your choice

Are you the instructor thus undertaking work or are you the pupil?

All in all it is up to you to decide what you need to undertake this activity - Can you do it without eating & drinking, or just drinking?

There is a prayer that you can use if you have to break the fast, I have not been able to reference it yet, If I find it I will post it.

Regards Tony

tonyfish58

The health benefits from fasting are well published

If you undertake the act of fasting, I would be positive will not result in any unhealthy result. If you are worried see a doctor to determine if you would be at risk and get advice. If the doctor says you are at risk and need to drink

Here is a Fact Sheet for kidney stones Kidney stones - body+soul

Cheers Tony

cire perdue

Does anybody else out there notice that when Fast is over that it does not seem to work to continue, for instance? It seems to me that Fast is in the air just out of reach, that it is a new atmosphere, new air, but just out of our perceptive abilities? When Fast is over I have to remind myself it is okay to eat lunch or have tea. I don't miss water, just tea and FOOD. Tea I miss the most. Alghazaleen Earl Grey..........

I also have kidney problems and drink extra water in a.m. Without tea to deplete my water by its diuretic effects I am not worried about enough water, but will just have to see. I just learned about the kidney issue.

I know of a Baha'i who would put the soundtrack to the movie "Oliver" on and play, "Food, Glorious Food......" at full volume at sundown. I think that is so funny and cute humor for Fast. I have it, I just have not ever done it!!!!!!

In particular this Faith is not about keeping the letter of the law. I don't think we can blindly obey any teaching that affects our health, saying that God will take care of it or expecting God to take care of it. To me that is testing God, and somehow I learned somewhere that God does not allow us to test HIM. I think there have been countless irrational pacts made of idle fancies composed of "God if I believe and serve you, then You will change me." The results of these collusions are great sicknesses one sees in clergy and the priesthoods. God will help us change, but unfortunately we still have to make effort to do the work. No one with physical problems or limits should ignore them. It is smart to come here to consult about them.

arthra

gusach

If one parent has kidney stones it doesn't necessarily mean you have the same issues.. of course if the doctor advices you not to fast because YOU have kidney stones that's another matter,.. We have to follow doctor's recommnedations.

I myself have kidney stones and never had one due to the fast..that is they never occurred say in the fast or immediatly following..

The kind of hard manual labor would be like contruction trade eight hours a day... A karate class.. maybe you could reschedule it for a later time ..see if a class is available in the evening..

arthra

The following is from Baha'is who were on pilgrimage around 1900:

Prayers,
Tablets,
Instructions and
Miscellany

Gathered by
American Visitors to the
Holy City
During the Summer of 1900

Fasting is of two kinds -- spiritual and material.
The spiritual fasting comes first, and is
the soul's refusal or denial of all kinds of evil
actions and habits -- this is the important fasting.
The bodily fasting or abstinence from
food, is a sign or witness to the inward fasting,
and is of no value by itself. But when both
kinds of fasting go together, then the effect upon
the soul is as "light upon light."

~ Compilations, Baha'i Prayers 9, p. 48

gusash

Well this seems to be my new thing on this site, responding to everyone's replies individually, but I think it's polite, so it will be my tradition from now on, time permitting.

Tony- With the karate, I am the pupil. But I put in maximum effort, so it really does hurt. I think I'll just delay it for the 19 days of the fast. And I talked to my doctor, and he didn't like the idea of me fasting whatsoever, he said it was a really really bad idea. Not sure if he was a bit bias, but either way he didn't like the idea. Thanks Tony.

Cire Perdue- Hello again Cire I was thinking based on a few posts including this and I think I'll just drink a LOT of water in the morning, cause kidney stones are caused by a bulid up of the salts in the kidneys, so I figure if I flush them all out in the morning, they shouldn't have time to build up over 8 hours. I also agree with your next part, letter of the law etc. I'm not saying I doubt God, but I guess (and yes I'm about to contradict myself) I sorta do. I do think it's just a better idea to not test God, as we aren't supposed to do that anyway. Thankyou Cire.

Arthra- Does that apply if I live in Australia? What country do you live in? I'm not doubting you, just checking. Sorry to hear you've had kidney stones. All I know is my mum ahs them, and they must be hell. Also, thankyou for your next post, the Baha'i compilation. Thankyou Arthra.

arthra

Does that apply if I live in Australia? What country do you live in? I'm not doubting you, just checking.

Unsure what you mean? I'm in California as you can tell under the "avatar"..

The kidney stones are no fun that's for sure but we all have "something" I suppose.. I shared that because you were concerned yourself and I wanted you to know it's not necessarily a big deal.

So do you have anymore questions about fasting?

cire perdue

How sincere you are! You did check with the doctor. You have an answer. Is there something you can give up? When I haven't been able to fast I give up tea and really miss it. You are giving up Fast for Fast. I encourage you to come up with interesting alternatives such as praying, reading a Baha'i book, and mindfulness. I'm glad to be in your Faith! I still think it is a special time of year that even feels special.

Because of stage III kidney disease and drinking tea, I try to drink more water than tea. MD's have not told me not to drink tea, yet. I have asked, best answer was it should not be only source of liquid and do not get dehydrated.

The most common cause of headaches is dehydration. I got one at 3 a.m. due to what I thought was very little activity outside yesterday. Once I got water in me this morning it went away.

avapyper

Hi
I'm sure I'm asking questions which are clear on this thread but I just want to be sure. I've been fasting since I was 15 and have never had a problem with keeping the fast.

This year, I am working in a call centre and also commuting. I live in Perth and commute to Edinburgh, which is like an hour and a half each way by train, so have to get up at like 5-6am everyday.

Thing is, because I am on the phone all day, my throat gets really dry and its very difficult to keep fasting and not start feeling ill. I do want to fast and I'm just wondering if there is anyway I could do so but maybe drink a bit of water when my throat feels dry. I am fine with not eating but then because I am pretty much talking all day, its very difficult.

Any suggestions and thoughts on this would be extremely helpful.

arthra

That's a difficult situation..!

Your job involves using your voice.. I would say you could find that as people who have to do hard labor all day are exempt you also have an employment situation ... but I'm no authority.. Maybe present this to higher Institutions and see what comes up!

As far as commuting long hours .. I don't know.. The kind of travelling in the day of Baha'u'llah was much more strenuous than it is today involving travelling on foot..horseback..on dusty roads and trails.

Taking a lunch I on the train you could consume it prior to sunrise or after sunset?

arthra

"O God! as I am fasting from the appetites of the body and not occupied with eating and drinking, even so purify and make holy my heart and my life from aught else save Thy Love, and protect and preserve my soul from self-passions and animal traits. Thus may the spirit associate with the Fragrances of Holiness and fast from everything else save Thy mention."



~ 'Abdu'l-Bahá
Star of the West, Vol. IV, No.18, p. 305

Sen McGlinn

Muslims have a harder sunrise to sunset fast than we do, they begin in the grey light before sunrise and continue until a black thread cannot be distinguished from a white one. They've been doing it for 1200 years, and remember that medieval medicine developed in the Islamic civilization (using Greek sources), and they had medical training and hospitals by the year 900. So I don't think that kidney stone problems in fasting would come as a great surprise to Baha'u'llah.

Having said that, I do not think that fasting causes kidney stones, rather it causes stones that are still small to try to get out the urinary tract. Ouch. Naturally if it happens, stop fasting, and take medicine to dissolve any more stones that may be there, but that will not be sufficient to stop stones forming. If it happens, you need to get an analysis of which type of stone it is, and change your diet accordingly, all year round.

If fasting does bring down a stone, the consolation is, the smaller the stone the less the pain, so the sooner it hits the ureter the better. You can say thank-you to fasting for an early diagnosis of a problem you didn't know was there, which would have been more painful later.

Pollwr

I think this does bring up a dilemma for a lot of us. As Bahá'ís we are to consult a competant physician and act on their advice. In my limited experience, a lot of doctors who are very competant in treating physical maladies do not understand the fast. It is something that is not understood in many cultures and if they have grown up not being aware of fasting, then they may not be competant to advise in that area. Of course I am talking about for healthy people. If we are ill, we are not to fast.

Personally, I decided to ignore my doctor's advice and fast when healthy. I have got to know my own body. I know now what fasting feels like. I know when something feels wrong. If I feel that there is something wrong I will stop fasting and get it investigated. I have also come to view the fast as having a side bonus of being a bit of a health check. If I get through it fine, then I know I am definitely healthy. I don't take my health for granted and feel very blessed that I am able to fast.

tonyfish58

A quick search on the net on the Medical Benefits of Fasting produces interesting reading - here is one link

Benefits of Fasting

It has been used for many a year to help cure/purge

Cheers Tony

cire perdue

Great source!!!!