Alexis

I am in a committed relationship with a wonderful man who is considering joining the Baha'i faith. We are both in our 40's and have already been engaging in sexual activity. I support his belief and feel that the Baha'i faith makes sense, but I don't know how I feel about not being able to be intimate with him anymore, if he chooses to join. Sexual intimacy is a very import part of be intimate with the man that I love. I just don't know what I would do if we have to resort to abstinence because of his joining the faith. Any advice?

Thanks!!

LordOfGoblins

Yeh... Get married.
/:

Sen McGlinn

If your relationship is one that the state or society recognises as a "common law" or defacto marriage, there is no need to have a Bahai marriage ceremony.

Alexis

We can't get married yet because we have only been together for a few months. It would be too soon.

cire perdue

Determining whether a relationship is a common law marriage is the task of a Local Spiritual Assembly or higher institution. Baha'is as individuals do not determine issues that concern the laws. What you have stated is more of a guideline and has undefined terms in it. That approach is so common in the western world, to advocate one's position and to challenge authority. Baha'is are attempting to learn to practice unity in cultures that are insidiously self-centered. We are trying unlearn that oppositional knee-jerk reaction to authority which is a very intellectual reaction that does not take spiritual realities into account. Man is thinking, emotions, and soul. There is a spiritual reality that must be acknowledged beyond mere intellectual arguments. Love is more important than debate.

Alexis, I think it would be a great way to find out if you really have a wonderful relationship that will last in the long run. Baha'is believe a couple should be a good fit for each other. We strongly de-emphasize sex, because without a good relationship that will not hold a marriage together. I think it is incredibly risky not to be restrained about sex and I say this from experience and not just being rule bound. It is about having a healthy, loving family.

We are not practicing these beliefs to count coup and to please a God who just makes these rules as tests or to practice monkish ways of denial. We believe these laws are what will bring forth the best chances of happiness. These teachings are in such stark contrast of what is popularly accepted and practiced that they almost seem backward, but we believe giving into passions and indulgence leads to despair. If I accept that, then I am willing to live a life different than what is popularly accepted. It prevents sad consequences.

Alexis

Cire Perdue, we do have a great relationship putting sex aside. Our relationship is not based on sex. The thing that I struggle with most is that he is not sure if he will ever marry again because of two past failed marriages, so does that mean we will live a sexless life together for the next 40 or so years? I can't live a life like that!! I believe in God and I know that my God would not want me or him to live in misery like that!

arthra

Where you start from is where you are... You indicate you think the Baha'i Faith makes sense... in time you may join your friend or not as you choose to do.

What would your bond with your friend be if it was not only physical but spiritual intimacy as well? Give it some time and see if your relationship can reach a deeper level.

Fear of commitment to each other may also be an issue.. Physical intimacy by itself can meet some of our needs..but is there more?

Alexis

Arthra,

I have no problem ever joining the faith...what my problem is, is that what good does it do for my boyfriend and I to be joined spiritually if he decides that he never wants to get married again? What kind of relationship would we have without a physical one.

He is the one that has the fear of commitment. He tells me he has feelings for me, but leaves it at that. He still can't tell me that he loves me and the only way that I can experience his feelings for me is through physical intimacy. If I don't have that, then what is the difference between having a boyfriend or just a friend?

I am ok with the fact that he may never want to marry again, as long as we can live a normal healthy life together, which means living physically together and having physical intimacy. These two things, your religion forbids, so how are we to have a relationship then for the rest of our lives???

cire perdue

Of course that presupposes that life without sexual intimacy is unliveable, is a martyrdom? So even without marriage, one has to have sex to live? At best short-lived, serial, sexual monogamous relationships without marriage that end if become difficult? Masses of people who know only non committed relationships? How does one succeed in a relationship? I hear lots about sex and nothing about love and learning the deeper meaning of it that will manifest in great children over a lifetime. My answer is you have to know who you are and succeed on your own first and to know and be able to accept who the other person is, that my job is to know the "we" is a good fit.

You have only known someone for a few months and think you can spend a lifetime with him. He does not have a great track record actually. Anyone can make a relationship last a few months. I would not marry someone I knew for less than a year. I presuppose that most Americans are not grown up enough for relationships. (myself included)

IF the Faith becomes part of your life, who knows what you might be willing to do. People change entire lifestyles and are willing to go against popular belief to live a Baha'i life. You may have only met him to learn about this Faith. You are also projecting into the future and saying you know what he will do, you will do. The Faith is a very, very great deal than one realizes. Baha'is live a Baha'i life sincerely and don't feel deprived if living in the right spirit. We have a purpose and reasons for these beliefs and laws. The unity of this Faith is extremely unique and precious. You obviously discern some of this, enough so there even seems to be fear of changing because of it. Your soul may be leading you. It seems like it to me. Listen to your heart and soul.

Sunday, very late editing/addition:\
I hope your boyfriend will realize we have not a clue who he is. Hewould have to become a Baha'i have it become well known that he was not married to a woman but acting like that, and then have it reflect on the Faith. Provided all that happened then he would be lovingly admonished by a Local Spritual Assembly and given time to make progress on the problem. Individual Baha'is do not get into each other's business nor do they have a right to tell one another what to do or believe. We believe God has a sin covering eye and that we should not focus on others' problems but our own. In fact if I knew about a situation I would take it to the Assembly who would then decide IF anything should even be done.

Alexis

I am not saying that I would marry him at this point, having only known him for a few months. I do know who I am, at age 41, and he knows who he is, being the same age.
We are learning everyday whether we are a good fit and so far it is working. What everyone is missing in my comments is that he might not want to ever get married again, but yet he still wants to be in a relationship with me, so if we remain as a couple for the next 30-40 years, however long we both might live, then are we never able to live together or have sex? That is something that I can't live with, as much as I love him. It will not be a healthy life for me or for him, for that matter.

He is not a Baha'i yet, he is only thinking about it. If he cares about me like he says he does, then I hope he doesn't choose this religion over me.

cire perdue

You can't live together with or without sex and be in good standing in the Faith. It's not about sex but the values portrayed by Baha'is. We can't believe one thing and do another. I don't know which issue should be solved: living together or joining the Faith. You would join because he would join? Please don't do it for that reason, but for your own reasons. You are already living together it seems.

One does not "join" this Faith like a church, one honestly and sincerely declares their belief in Baha'u'llah as God's vessel of the Holy Spirit, just like Christ, Muhammad, Moses, Buddha, and Krishna and that you also believe in the Institutions and the Covenant established by Baha'u'llah, by His son, Abdul'baha, and the grandson of Abdul'baha, The Guardian. You sign a statement to this effect and become a Baha'i. Please, please do so with care. People are imprisoned and have died even recently to uphold this Faith.

cire perdue

So it has to be either or? It can't be worked out? He can't be a Baha'i and decide if he wants to marry you later and/or to be in good standing? You can't let things fall in such a way that you don't have a foregone conclusion about being with him regardless? If you are right for each other and the Faith is right, I would think you could even obey Baha'i teachings and find a way to make the relationship work. You would have to take things on faith, live one day at a time. Having God first in a relationship is in no way a detriment. It means someone wants to be sincere, honest, and work on his/herself for their own spiritual progress which is always good for a partner to have.

Things only feel like they are on my terms, everything is really on God's terms. We can either go along with it, or have it go along without us.

Alexis

We are not living together, but if he becomes Baha'i and decides never to marry again, then we will never be able to live together or have a normal, healthy adult relationship.

We both have similar beliefs in God and both don't agree to organized religion because of the rules and such, so I am not sure he really understands all of the rules he has to abide by. This is something that we will discuss. No religion or faith should dictate how a person should live physically, as long as they are living a moral life, which means being in a monogamous relationship and not sleeping around.

I would join the faith to be more wholly connected with him only because I do not want to viewed by any other Baha'is as an outsider and to be included. I believe in what the Baha'i say about living a moral life, but I do not believe that they should dictate whether a man and a woman who are in a committed relationship, but not married, can live together or have sexual relations.

LordOfGoblins

You shouldnt make a man give up his faith for you, he will end up resenting you for it, trust me. No matter how spectacular you might be, faith is a personal thing shouldnt be bartered with.

Alexis

The matter here, cire perdue, is that he may NEVER get married again! Then what??? I have wasted all this time?

Alexis

Lordofgoblins...he is not of this faith, yet!

LordOfGoblins

You are correct. The Bahai standards are high and indeed higher than current societies morals. He should be aware of them before he signs up...
Still you would dissuade someone from their faith on the basis of wanting sex? Not only is this highly ammusing but wouldnt you feel somewhat dirty (or selfish) for that you have done this to someone most of all the man you claim to love...

Alexis

I would not ask him to reconsider joining because of sex. I am asking him that if he wants to remain with me the rest of his life, but not get married, then he can still have his belief in God and not belong to a group that tells him he can't be intimate with the woman he loves just because they are not married.

Alexis

Lordofgoblins...he still has his faith in God, as do I, even if he doesn't belong to some organized group.

cire perdue

Being against organization really means you don't want to live by standards that are protection as well as guidelines. Locks are not to keep you out of my house, but those who will break the lock anyway. The protection of values is the hope that all our grandchildren will not live in communes that have orgies everynight and no set families for children to grow up in (an extreme yes, but has happened). I really hope you will find sincere reasons if you become a Baha'i. You don't believe in organization because it is against your standards. I am sorry, but my standards weren't good enough for me. I needed standards from a higher source.

You set the standards for the choice to be with him before the Faith was an issue, and it was risky then. I would rather be spritually happy than in a unspiritual relationship. I am going to state personally that I would not want people joining this Faith for your reasons. You would not be happy and later withdraw or just go away. I really, really hope you will only join because your heart wants you to, and are willing to live a Baha'i life. If you are not willing to live a Baha'i life I hope you would wait until you are willing. I think that is honest. I am not sure anyone will question your honesty or sincerity if you sign a card, so I think it important that you be aware that it IS important. Most of my consequences in my life is from being dishonest with myself and in denial. I want better for you. You will get more love and acceptance as a non-Baha'i and being honest than as a dishonest Baha'i.

cire perdue

Do think that if you dishonestly join a religion to be with someone who may be joining honestly will preserve a relationship?
"I only joined to be with you, I don't really believe all of it. It's okay, but I don't believe in organized religion?"

"You mean you do believe it all and want to do what? Travel teaching in China? Going to Israel to work for a year?"

Though I had huge problems that should have been solved and my wife did too, what broke it was finding out she had lied to me extensively. 25 years later she still regrets being the "cause" of the breakup, however, I was not really any healthier and possibly less healthy than she was which she seems to ignore. Hey, I am no paragon of virture. I think my mistakes outweigh the good in my life.

Alexis

We are both against organized religion, but yet still live with hi standards and morales. He has told me that this is not a religion, but rather a faith. Any group who sets rules that you HAVE to live by is an organized religion. We are both living a live of no drugs, no alcohol, monogamous sex, no lying or stealing and treating others with respect and kindness. I think we are doing pretty well without being told what to do by a group.

Alexis

This whole topic is not about whether I join the faith, it is about him joining and us not being allowed to have a normal, healthy adult relationship outside of being married, if he decides not to marry again.

Also, he would not travel the world to teach because he has 4 children and would not be away from them. They are jot Baha'i.

Again, the big question is...if he becomes Baha'i and chooses not to ever get married again...what kind of a relationship can we have? We could only be friends who can kiss. What kind of relationship is that?

cire perdue

Well, yes it is a Faith which means a way of life. We live it with the belief that these standards will eventually be adhered to by a majority of the world and will result in world peace. We think that actually living it affects the world spiritually, so we strive for honesty and sincerity. Otherwise it is the same old game we already know. All organization is not bad. If you choose to be a Baha'i it is because you can believe it and that would mean you weren't being told what to do, you believe it is right and choose it. I hope it might come to mean as much to you as to it does to so many, that you see it as a world salvation, the only means to change the hearts of men, the return of Christ. I hope you will examine your fears and thoughts in relationship to this new Faith and see if maybe it could be worth giving up personal views for world visions. I found it smarter and better than anything I could have come up with.

cire perdue

I never thought I would do some of the things I have done because of being a Baha'i, and giving up non married sex was one of them. It's been over 20 years and I am better off not worse.

You have no guarantee you will have a relationship with him even if he does not join the Faith. You brought up joining the Faith. Once again you won't know until you get there. It's up to him. He may want what the Faith has for his kids and their futures. These are the standards and what I want people to tell me to do for having and raising children. Do you love him enough to let him do the best for him and his kids? If you are really this man's soul mate then it will work out, because love will find a way. You have an opportunity to grow. Spritual growth is not pain free. Lemmeee tell you! I know you are doing the best you can. Consider letting go and put it in God's hands. Maybe we have brought up some things you can talk over with him or even research for yourself. Baha'i prayers are rather impressive and comforting. They are one of the best things about this Faith. I know you are scared, but it is all new territory, it could be a wonderful new life with more than your previous life. It's gonna take effort. You wouldn't be talking if you weren't considering thinking more on this.

Pollwr

Hi, Alexis,

I imagine this sort of dillema must occur for quite a few people.

Firstly, if you are serious about this guy and he is serious about the Bahá'í Faith, I would advise you to study the Faith so that you are informed, and have read things for yourself rather than just hearing about other people's interpretations.

You said something about him joining a group who will tell him what to do. If he does become a Bahá'í and follows Bahá'í law, I imagine it will not be because he is told what to do by a group but because he choses to follow teachings from a higher Power because of what he believes, and that is different and a matter of conscience and not peer pressure.

You also said that he would not be able to travel around to teach. Not everyone does, and that won't be a problem.

The two of you are in quite a new relationship, he is investigating a new religion, it sounds like a time of transition, whatever the outcome. This can be unsettling. You may find that if he does take up the Faith, his opinion on marriage may be influenced in ways you would not expect it to be right now.

My final suggestion for you, as someone who longs for a solution to this problem, is to say a prayer and see if that helps.

Here is a short prayer:

"Is there any Remover of difficulties save God? Say: Praised be God! He is God! All are His servants and all abide by His bidding!"

(Compilations, Fire and Light, p. 16)

Here is a much longer but very beautiful prayer: "The Tablet of Ahmad was revealed by Bahá'u'lláh to be read when one feels himself in exceptionally difficult circumstances. There is nothing obligatory about its use, and every person has to decide for himself whether he desires to learn it by heart or not..."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the Bahá'ís of Kenosha, April 14, 1932)


He is the King, the All-Knowing, the Wise! Lo, the Nightingale of Paradise singeth upon the twigs of the Tree of Eternity, with holy and sweet melodies, proclaiming to the sincere ones the glad tidings of the nearness of God, calling the believers in the Divine Unity to the court of the Presence of the Generous One, informing the severed ones of the message which hath been revealed by God, the King, the Glorious, the Peerless, guiding the lovers to the seat of sanctity and to this resplendent Beauty.

Verily this is that Most Great Beauty, foretold in the Books of the Messengers, through Whom truth shall be distinguished from error and the wisdom of every command shall be tested. Verily He is the Tree of Life that bringeth forth the fruits of God, the Exalted, the Powerful, the Great.

O Ahmad! Bear thou witness that verily He is God and there is no God but Him, the King, the Protector, the Incomparable, the Omnipotent. And that the One Whom He hath sent forth by the name of Ali [1] was the true One from God, to Whose commands we are all conforming.
[1 The Báb ]

Say: O people be obedient to the ordinances of God, which have been enjoined in the Bayan by the Glorious, the Wise One. Verily He is the King of the Messengers and His book is the Mother Book did ye but know.

Thus doth the Nightingale utter His call unto you from this prison. He hath but to deliver this clear message. Whosoever desireth, let him turn aside from this counsel and whosoever desireth let him choose the path to his Lord.

O people, if ye deny these verses, by what proof have ye believed in God? Produce it, O assemblage of false ones.

Nay, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, they are not, and never shall be able to do this, even should they combine to assist one another.

O Ahmad! Forget not My bounties while I am absent. Remember My days during thy days, and My distress and banishment in this remote prison. And be thou so steadfast in My love that thy heart shall not waver, even if the swords of the enemies rain blows upon thee and all the heavens and the earth arise against thee.

Be thou as a flame of fire to My enemies and a river of life eternal to My loved ones, and be not of those who doubt.

And if thou art overtaken by affliction in My path, or degradation for My sake, be not thou troubled thereby.

Rely upon God, thy God and the Lord of thy fathers. For the people are wandering in the paths of delusion, bereft of discernment to see God with their own eyes, or hear His Melody with their own ears. Thus have We found them, as thou also dost witness.

Thus have their superstitions become veils between them and their own hearts and kept them from the path of God, the Exalted, the Great.

Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity.

Learn well this Tablet, O Ahmad. Chant it during thy days and withhold not thyself therefrom. For verily, God hath ordained for the one who chants it, the reward of a hundred martyrs and a service in both worlds. These favors have We bestowed upon thee as a bounty on Our part and a mercy from Our presence, that thou mayest be of those who are grateful.

By God! Should one who is in affliction or grief read this Tablet with absolute sincerity, God will dispel his sadness, solve his difficulties and remove his afflictions.

Verily, He is the Merciful, the Compassionate. Praise be to God, the Lord of all the worlds.- Bahá'u'lláh

(Compilations, Baha'i Prayers, p. 206)

Alexis

Thank you everyone, for all of you kind words and wisdom, but it might be too late now. I asked my boyfriend if we could talk this evening about what would happen to us if he were to become Baha'i. He is difficult to get a hold of sometimes, so that is why I asked him if I could call him this evening. I told him that I have been talking with people on a Baha'i message board because I have had no one else to talk with about this because he is so unavailable at times. He got extremely upset, thinking that I used his name and that there might be people he knows on this board. He told me (and this is all in an email) that if I mention another word about this, that we would be over! I wrote him back and just asked him why he wants to become Baha'i and what would happen to us. He wrote back, "Goodbye". I thought that being in a relationship, we would be able to talk about things, that we SHOULD talk about things. If you can't communicate in a relationship, then what do you have???

cire perdue

I am so sorry. I thought you came to the one place where you could talk about it. I think you have done the best you could and that you have been seriously considering what is important to him. I may have fussed some, but as I said you were considering the Faith and the importance of it to you both. It looks like you have been the more considerate. I know you are hurt right now, I would be. You thought this was a good relationship. I really think you were doing a good job. I respect the care you took to investigate what was important to a potential partner. I pray you find someone that is considerate of you. You showed us the attributes and sincerity it takes to be a good partner. I don't think God means for us to get hurt like this. Don't let someone do this to you again if you don't work this out with him. I am sad.

Alexis

Thank you for your empathy. I don't think God means for us to get hurt either, but for some reason, it seems to keep happening to me (with other men in my past). I am so sad that I don't seem to mean enough to him that we can't even discuss this. Why does he have to be so defensive with me when I had asked him "why" he wants to become Baha'i? Why couldn't he just say, "I know you are concerned about what this might mean for us...let's talk about it."? Why does it have to be so difficult? I was just turning to all of you (Baha'is) for advice and counseling, since he was not available to talk about this. As someone wanting to become Baha'i, shouldn't he have found this to be a good thing...that I looked to people of this faith for guidance? I would have thought so.

I am so sad about this, that I had to leave work today and come home. I was in no condition to meet with clients.

Alexis

Thank you for the prayers, Pollwr. They are lovely and I hope that they will help.

Lunitik

Alexis,

From a practical point of view, in the Baha'i Faith, there is no necessity to confess sins so it becomes solely a decision between you, your boyfriend, and God. If it is a loving relationship, I see no reason why God would condemn it.

There is such a thing as virginal sex, this means that it is a pure sex, there is no perversion of the act at all. It is the lust desire which most faiths condemn, not necessarily the natural, loving and respectful sex which a couple will partake in. This is a beautiful act when it is free from lust, and in fact repression is more harmful than anything this could possible result in. Through repression, obsession arises. This is probably the nature of modern homosexuality, for sex is repressed to such an extent that males and females are kept separate and taught sex is an evil thing.

There is of course another side to the coin, for the sex energy is used in many faiths to attain higher consciousness - variously through tantra or through normal meditation. When we exhaust it in its lowest form, it has no chance to move to the higher energy centers. Perhaps this is not something your husband has in mind, but certainly this is the purpose of the teachings pertaining to celibacy in other schools.

Overall, it seems like a personal choice to me, something you must discuss with your man rather than the internet.

Alexis

Thank you, Lunitik, for your insight. The sex we have shared has been nothing by of a loving nature. That is why I see nothing wrong with us being able to express our feelings for one another in this way. It is one of many important ways of being intimate with each other and that is very important to a healthy relationship. I don't feel that God is out there to punish us (two people in a committed relationship) for partaking in a loving act. It is one of many ways that brings two people closer together, if there are emotions involved.

cire perdue

Alexis, It is very obvious to me that you are a loving person. I think it is important to protect yourself from being hurt. That is a very practical reason for being careful about being in a relationship. MEN do not perceive sex the same way as women and women are not the same as men about sex. Thank God. Historically women were the gatekeepers of the relationship and made sure their needs were met before being in a full relationship. Do you think it is safe now to be any less careful?

(The only empirical proven (so far) difference between men and women is that women focus on the relationships between things and people etc. Men focus on how things work.)

Our whole society is practicing the art of the casual relationship, making an art form of having sport sex. Sex is bonding, does one really want to change that effect on him/herself? You are out there willing to be loving and committed. HOW do you find someone who is that way as well? Our focus is not about it being wrong, but about it not working. It is also about not just looking good, it is about sincerity. You have a right to expect more from a partner. My vote is with you! Maybe he will calm down?

Alexis

Cire, you are spot on with what you've said. I know that men and women think very differently about everything, not only sex. The relationship between my partner and I has been different than any of my past relationship in the sense that he doesn't need physical intimacy all of the time, like most men. It is a more emotional bond for him than most men. He has stated to me that he thinks with his brain and not his organ, to put it nicely. :-) This is why I know that sex is a meaningful act between us and why this is all so hard to deal with.

I think he might have calmed down because he sent me an email stating that he does want to talk about it tomorrow. So we'll see what happens. He has been honest and sincere the this entire time with everything that we have experience and talked about. This is a vital part of us finding out if we are meant to be together for the long haul. It is just so hard when he gets agitated and threatens to call it quits when a subject of discussion arises. Wish us luck!!

cire perdue

Sounds like HE has a history of being hurt. That or losing arguments. Baha'is don't focus on sin as much as tests. If we don't learn a lesson it keeps coming back. Maybe this is an opportunity for both of you to work this out. We also believe in fighting our own personal spritual battles. It will make you stronger. It surely hurts like hell part of the time. He has a pattern of running, so just be aware of it, and find a way to accept that. It may not change, but he might be worth adapting for. Do we sound organized like you thought originally? or like fundamentalist/literalist? We gotta accept people where they are, not where we want them to be. It is their job to get there, and hopefully this Faith is the source of strength to do it. It would be interesting to know if you change your thinking about us. We aren't like anything that has been before. NO CLERGY. That makes a major, BIG difference. No one has to make a living off you. We also don't pass the plate, contributions can only come from enrolled Baha'is, and it is secret. Only the treasurer knows. We also vote by secret ballot, and do not campaign, nor even discuss voting for someone with each other for the institutions that keep us "organized"...... I think some prayers have been answered today. It remains to be seen just how that will turn out. Thank you for listening to me and for your responses which have reciprocated the care I felt for you.

Alexis

Thank you cire, I have really appreciated your insight and care. I know that the Baha'i faith has a lot of good things to offer. I just am cautious about faith bases groups that have a lot of laws that you have to abide by. It is common sense to try and live a moral life and that no organization should have to tell you that you shouldn't lie, cheat, steal, commit adultery, abuse another person, and so on and so on. These should be common sense beliefs, which my boyfriend and I already believe in. I just don't like anyone dictating whether a man and a woman in a loving relationship should not be intimate with one another or live with them. If both people are committed to ONLY each other, then there is nothing sinful about it. I believe that the Baha'i faith could be a good thing for the both of us as a couple, possibly in the future. If there is a future for us.

You are also correct in that maybe he is the one running from being hurt, again. He has told me that because of being hurt, he is not sure that he is able to have a relationship again, but he is willing to try. I am willing (and have told him so) to be patient with him and give him time to see how deep this may develop. He is worth the patience and difficult conversations that we have been through. I just hope he doesn't give up on us and is willing to see both sides.

cire perdue

WE don't dictate to anyone except Baha'is. The rest of the world is gonna have to figure itself out, but we are here as a light. If what we do works, the world will seek it. Honestly we do not sit around telling others what to do. We already know it has to be figured out whether it is a "sin", a failed test, wrong, or whatever. People have to find their own way. As a Baha'i one chooses to stay within certain bounds even sometimes when you don't agree. Sometimes if blessed the wisdom of the teaching is made clear. We really believe we are holding a place that will affect others spiritually. If we are willing to give up these choices so that the wisdom may become apparent to all, then what we do is significant. These values are the way I would raise my children, not with superstitious right and wrongs and sins.

I just posted on Planet Baha'i on a thread also about relationships that a therapist jammed into my head: Healthy people do not marry unhealthy people.

Alexis

Yes, but the problem I have is that he has to abide by the laws of living a sex free life with me and that we could never live together, if we aren't married. That's what I mean about dictating. If he decides to become Baha'i, then he is dictated to. That's my whole concern. That's why I asked the initial question to begin with. Because if he becomes Baha'i and never wants to marry again, then there is no future for us. That's what it all comes down to.

I read your post on the other site and it's true...but who today, is mentally healthy? Everyone comes with some sort of baggage in their life that makes them unhealthy. Everyone has issues. You learn to accept them and work through them.

Rani

Dear Alexis,

As I see it, If your boyfriend decides to join the Faith, the reason he would do it, is because he is attracted to it, and to its teachings, even including the ones about sex!, and because he strives to live according to them, and because he believes in Baha'u'llah of course.

There is no compulsion for him or yourself to join this Faith. I personally believe it would be good if a person joins only if they believe in the teachings, and do the best they can to follow them. So, no-one would be dictating to your boyfriend. Striving to obey and follow the teachings comes from one's own desire and attraction to spiritual principles and guidelines.
No-one is trying to force this desire or any beliefs onto him.

I also agree that it would not be a good reason to join the Faith *just if your boyfriend does. I say this because if I were married and my husband joined just to please me, I would prefer he didn't join, because it would not be from his own heart. What is the point in him/her joining if he does not sincerely believe in it? It would not make me feel any closer to him. If he didn't believe in it, I would see it as better that he remained undeclared but was supportive and respectful towards my faith.

Actually I know a couple who lived near me, where the husband said that he had 'declared' when they were very young just because the wife did and to feel close to her. Well, after a severe test (sudden death of an adult child), he lost his faith, and after 50 yrs almost, he left his wife, and I am still heartbroken for them /her.

So, from my own point of view, if your boyfriend believes that sex outside of marriage is totally fine, even though it's monogamous, I would question whether he really loves everything about the Faith..

Also from my own point of view, there is no special time frame that has to be adhered to in terms of dating before marriage. It could be very different for different people. I have heard of and seen marriages where they didn't know each other for long at all before getting engaged and even married, and yet are still together many years later. But of course getting married just for sex is not the answer either. Naturally you would just want to marry if and when you feel comfortable in yourselves and confident that you each want to be together for the rest of your lives and that it can work. No-one can tell you if and when you decide you want to marry, that is your choice, and your right.

I understand that he is unsure about whether he wishes to marry again, and I understand the difficulty in abstaining if you have already been close in that way. But again, it is from my standpoint that he would probably only become baha'i if he finds beauty in these teachings. including the one about abstaining until you have decided you want to marry that person, and hopefully abstain until the marriage.. But I certainly would not ask a friend if they succeeded or are living that life!! That is personal and between the person and God. I just think that the desire to follow the teachings and the effort should be there. (if a person is baha'i, of course).

I wish you the best.. (sorry if I have repeated myself a bit too)..
And I hope you can make it work together. It sounds like your boyfriend needs a bit of time. Like friends suggested above, some of the revealed prayers should help! Warm wishes.. R

LordOfGoblins

I have not read everything but I think in all fairness it wasnt right of him to just say "goodbye" in an email- such an informal way. Bahai or not there is something called manners and if he has been commited with you then I dont understand why he is flying away without so much as a telephone call. Anyway maybe just best to get over this guy and move on with your life if he is that reluctant to even discuss things through...
Sorry to hear this.