Lqmn725

Could anyone provide me with quotes from the Baha'i writings on the subject of the labor movement? Did any of the major figures in the faith comment on it? I read somewhere that in the Baha'i Faith work is considered a worship. Could anyone provide me with quotes on work, earning a living, etc.? Anthing would be appreciated. Thanks.

arthra

The labor movement was mentioned by Abdul-Baha and Baha'is were forbidden to join in strikes...also employers were encouraged to set up profit sharing with their workers.

Baha'is are enjoined to have useful trades and engage in work.

Begging is forbidden for Baha'is as wellas giving alms...

Here are some citations:

Work equated with worship:

The twelfth Glad-Tidings

It is enjoined upon every one of you to engage in some form of occupation, such as crafts, trades and the like. We have graciously exalted your engagement in such work to the rank of worship unto God, the True One. Ponder ye in your hearts the grace and the blessings of God and render thanks unto Him at eventide and at dawn. Waste not your time in idleness and sloth. Occupy yourselves with that which profiteth yourselves and others. Thus hath it been decreed in this Tablet from whose horizon the day-star of wisdom and utterance shineth resplendent.

The most despised of men in the sight of God are those who sit idly and beg. Hold ye fast unto the cord of material means, placing your whole trust in God, the Provider of all means. When anyone occupieth himself in a craft or trade, such occupation itself is regarded in the estimation of God as an act of worship; and this is naught but a token of His infinite and all-pervasive bounty.

~ Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 26



Profit sharing:

Then rules and laws should be established to regulate the excessive fortunes of certain private individuals, and limit the misery of millions of the poor masses; thus a certain moderation would be obtained. However, absolute equality is just as impossible, for absolute equality in fortunes, honors, commerce, agriculture, industry, would end in a want of comfort, in discouragement, in disorganization of the means of existence, and in universal disappointment: the order of the community would be quite destroyed. Thus, there is a great wisdom in the fact that equality is not imposed by law: it is, therefore, preferable for moderation to do its work. The main point is, by means of laws and regulations to hinder the constitution of the excessive fortunes of certain individuals, and to protect the essential needs of the masses. For instance, the manufacturers and the industrials heap up a treasure each day, and the poor artisans do not gain their daily sustenance: that is the height of iniquity, and no just man can accept it. Therefore, laws and regulations should be established which would permit the workmen to receive from the factory owner their wages and a share in the fourth or the fifth part of the profits, according to the wants of the factory; or in some other way the body of workmen and the manufacturers should share equitably the profits and advantages. Indeed, the direction and administration of affairs come from the owner of the factory, and the work and labor, from the body of the workmen. In other words, the workmen should receive wages which assure them an adequate support, and when they cease work, becoming feeble or helpless, they should receive from the owner of the factory a sufficient pension. The wages should be high enough to satisfy the workmen with the amount they receive, so that they may be able to put a little aside for days of want and helplessness.

When matters will be thus fixed, the owner of the factory will no longer put aside daily a treasure which he has absolutely no need of (without taking into consideration that if the fortune is disproportionate, the capitalist succumbs under a formidable burden, and gets into the greatest difficulties and troubles; the administration of an excessive fortune is very difficult, and exhausts man's natural strength). And, the workmen and artisans will no longer be in the greatest misery and want, they will no longer be submitted to the worst privations at the end of their life.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 280

In the same way, the workmen should no longer rebel and revolt, nor demand beyond their rights; they should no longer go out on strike, they should be obedient and submissive, and not ask for impudent wages. But the mutual rights of both associated parties will be fixed and established according to custom by just and impartial laws. In case one of the two parties should transgress, the courts of justice would have to give judgment, and by an efficacious fine put an end to the transgression; thus order will be re-established, and the difficulties settled. The interference of courts of justice and of the Government in difficulties pending between manufacturers and workmen is legal, for the reason that current affairs between workmen and manufacturers cannot be compared with ordinary affairs between private persons, which do not concern the public, and with which the Government should not occupy itself. In reality, although they appear to be matters between private persons, these difficulties between patrons and workmen produce a general detriment; for commerce, industry, agriculture and the general affairs of the country are all intimately linked together. If one of these suffers an abuse, the detriment affects the mass. Thus the difficulties between workmen and manufacturers become a cause of general detriment.

The court of justice and the Government have therefore the right of interference. When a difficulty occurs between two individuals with reference to private rights, it is necessary for a third to settle the question: this is the part of the Government: then the question of strikes -- which cause troubles in the country and are often connected with the excessive vexations of the workmen, as well as with the rapacity of manufacturers -- how could it remain neglected?

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 282

Bahá'u'lláh forbids both begging and giving to beggars, but
exhorts the wealthy and the House of Justice to help the needy,
and referring to the House of Justice He says, "Verily have We
made it a shelter for the poor and needy." (cf. note 31). (p. 47)

~ Baha'u'llah, Synopsis and Codification of the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 63

Rani

[QUOTE=arthra;23603]

'Begging is forbidden for Baha'is as wellas giving alms...'


Good quotes Arthra. Thank you. My only concern here is that I believe that 'giving alms' is generally considered to mean as 'giving to the poor or to charities'. I believe it is clear in the Writings that we are meant to give to the poor, but not to beggars. There is an important difference between the two.

'Abdu'l-Bahá attended the noonday prayer at the Mosque. When he came out he found the poor waiting for the alms, which it was his custom to give every Friday. This day, as usual, he stood, in spite of very great fatigue, whilst he gave a coin to every one with his own hands.'

(H.M. Balyuzi, Abdu'l-Baha - The Centre of the Covenant, p. 458)

Rani

82. O MY SERVANT!
The best of men are they that earn a livelihood by their calling and spend upon themselves and upon their kindred for the love of God, the Lord of all worlds.

(Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)


80. O MY SERVANTS! Ye are the trees of My garden; ye must give forth goodly and wondrous fruits, that ye yourselves and others may profit therefrom. Thus it is incumbent on every one to engage in crafts and professions, for therein lies the secret of wealth, O men of understanding! For results depend upon means, and the grace of God shall be all-sufficient unto you. Trees that yield no fruit have been and will ever be for the fire.

(Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)


And not on the subject of work, but on giving:

The beginning of magnanimity is when man expendeth his wealth on himself, on his family and on the poor among his brethren in his Faith.
(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 156)

cire perdue

[QUOTE=Rani;23605]I am so concrete about things at times. I guess I will have to think about this the next time I pass a homeless person. I have acted as if I would be a sinner
if I gave money to those on the street, but I can trust my own sense.

arthra

I think people may be unaware that in some countries there are professional beggars.. also alms giving keeps begging alive and in Islam it's more or less institutionalized.

I believe the Baha'i view is focused more on ways to reduce the extremes of wealth and poverty.. rather than alms giving more focused on ways to educate and train people to be more self sufficient.

Lqmn725

Thank you, Arthra! You have provided me with more than what I expected to get from this thread.

Rani, thank you for this clarification. An outright ban on alms giving would have seriously distressed me.

Pollwr

My understanding is that we are not forbidden to join strikes, even though they are seen as a negative thing.

"1. A Bahá'í can become a member of a trade union as long as he is not required to also join a political party.

2. 'Abdu'l-Bahá in general disapproved of strikes. The Bahá'í attitude is that when the law recognizes strikes as legal, as when called by a properly constituted authority such as a trade union, the Bahá'í teaching neither requires nor forbids an individual to participate in the strike but leaves him free to decide for himself what is the proper course of action in the particular circumstances."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, June 23, 1985) 628"

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 627)


Of course the Bahá'í Faith champions consultation and effective consultation would mean no stikes. I think it is a bit like divorce, not prohibited but is allowed in extreme circumstances. The break down of a relationship between employee and employer is a terrible thing. As I understand it the employee should not strike for reasons of greed or political manipulation but sometimes employers act in a cruel or unjust way or do not provide a living wage when they are scooping of vast profits.

Pesonally, I think I would stike if there was a major injustice and the employer would not engage. I have to say that is unlikely as I am lucky with my employer. I think I would struggle with a decision if my immediate employer was just but they were part of a bigger organisation and I was asked to strike because of something that had happened in another part of the organisation.

Eftekhar Be Khoda

I'm assuming that Unions are somewhat frowned upon then. They seem to be based about the idea of possible strikes and if not that than backbiting in the sense of bad-mouthing those who don't give into them. It hasn't come up for me but I think it would be "shirk" -- to barrow the Islamic term -- to join and organisation that encourages such behavior. To say nothing of the political causes they support.