Persian practice of Taroff (spelling)

cire perdue · 08-25-2011, 11:31 AM

What is the correct spelling?
I had this form of courtesy explained to me and was almost horrified. I think it is so important to know what one wants and to ask for it, and to be straightforward, that honesty is important, but kindness is more so. How do others view this custom. I found when someone tried to anticipate my needs without asking me in the name of courtesy that is was more like how I view co-dependency and felt manipulative, and that person and I went our separate ways.

This is the practice of a host or whomever offering something to you, and you refuse, they may or may not offer again. Then they bring it to you, though you have refused, and you really weren't refusing. Like bringing me tea when I can't have caffiene that time of night. I wonder if the practice bleeds over into relationships or such.

Essence of GOD · 08-26-2011, 02:36 PM

hahaha
its just to show respect and humble yourself before another.
i do agree that its very awkward, but just smile and nod till the person leaves lol

armin · 08-26-2011, 09:28 PM

I don't know the correct spelling or whether there is one at all

. It surely is one of the hardest things to explain to none persians. It is awkward though for sure, and at times borderlines ingenuine pretentiousnous (I think I just made up a word there

).

Pollwr · 08-27-2011, 07:01 AM

I have heard about this practise. I remeber being told that when an English man married a Persian in one community she was very confused and sometimes hungry or thirsty when visiting with his family. They would offer her food and she would refuse, expecting to be offered again. They thought she must be on a diet and left her alone.

Mixing with people of other cultures the strangeness of some customs come to light when two cultures co-exist but the importance of communication comes to the fore. It is interesting to think about what we do because of cultural things we have learned, what we do because of family influences and what we do because of the Faith because sometimes it is hard to separate reasons for what we have grown up believing is normal polite behaviour.

Fadl · 08-31-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire perdue

what is the correct spelling?

طرف

Yeshua · 08-31-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fadl

طرف

Your BACK!!! HIP-HIP HOORAAAY!!!

LordOfGoblins · 08-31-2011, 08:46 PM

Did Baha'u'llah ever say "dont taroff?"
Toroff nakun in persian. there are a few dinner table conversations recorded of Abdul'Baha but I dont think he ever said this, at least the ones I read are in western settings so there would be no point saying it.
hehe.

cire perdue · 09-01-2011, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordOfGoblins

Did Baha'u'llah ever say "dont taroff?"
Toroff nakun in persian. there are a few dinner table conversations recorded of Abdul'Baha but I dont think he ever said this, at least the ones I read are in western settings so there would be no point saying it.
hehe.

It is a cultural practice in my opinion that should not become a general practice. That is unless it concerns only tea! I have seen this used in other ways and it was very confusing.

Fadl · 09-01-2011, 06:30 AM

It's surely a cultural thing, not Baha'i. That being said, it's still important to take a person's culture into account and show courtesy and respect towards people of all cultures, Persian or not. There is nothing wrong with this practice. It rises from recognizing the fact that nearly everyone tries to be "polite" in certain settings, and will very often decline or refuse something that they actually want so as to seem polite and to not appear selfish or over indulgent. Naturally, every good host wants to satisfy the needs of their guest, and, being aware of the fact that people often pretend not to want something they want, will insist several times in an attempt to by pass this polite yet false refusal in order to truly satisfy the guest.

To invoke ni taruf, is to ensure that polite pretenses have ended and the guest is truly satisfied and the host has truly provided. In my experience with Persians (most of them being Baha'i) the Persian people are humble, gracious, and generous. In this context the issue of taruf arises. Personally, I think it is an adorable custom, although I don't use it myself unless around Persians who I detect are doing it--then I do it too.

08-25-2011, 11:31 AM	#1
cire perdue Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: Louisiana Posts: 1,619	Persian practice of Taroff (spelling) What is the correct spelling? I had this form of courtesy explained to me and was almost horrified. I think it is so important to know what one wants and to ask for it, and to be straightforward, that honesty is important, but kindness is more so. How do others view this custom. I found when someone tried to anticipate my needs without asking me in the name of courtesy that is was more like how I view co-dependency and felt manipulative, and that person and I went our separate ways. This is the practice of a host or whomever offering something to you, and you refuse, they may or may not offer again. Then they bring it to you, though you have refused, and you really weren't refusing. Like bringing me tea when I can't have caffiene that time of night. I wonder if the practice bleeds over into relationships or such.

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08-26-2011, 02:36 PM	#2
Essence of GOD Senior Member Joined: Nov 2010 From: EARTH Posts: 235	hahaha its just to show respect and humble yourself before another. i do agree that its very awkward, but just smile and nod till the person leaves lol

08-26-2011, 09:28 PM	#3
armin Senior Member Joined: Mar 2011 From: san diego Posts: 144	I don't know the correct spelling or whether there is one at all . It surely is one of the hardest things to explain to none persians. It is awkward though for sure, and at times borderlines ingenuine pretentiousnous (I think I just made up a word there ).

08-27-2011, 07:01 AM	#4
Pollwr Senior Member Joined: Jun 2009 From: earth Posts: 311	I have heard about this practise. I remeber being told that when an English man married a Persian in one community she was very confused and sometimes hungry or thirsty when visiting with his family. They would offer her food and she would refuse, expecting to be offered again. They thought she must be on a diet and left her alone. Mixing with people of other cultures the strangeness of some customs come to light when two cultures co-exist but the importance of communication comes to the fore. It is interesting to think about what we do because of cultural things we have learned, what we do because of family influences and what we do because of the Faith because sometimes it is hard to separate reasons for what we have grown up believing is normal polite behaviour.

08-31-2011, 08:46 PM	#7
LordOfGoblins Senior Member Joined: Dec 2010 From: Australia Posts: 1,329	Did Baha'u'llah ever say "dont taroff?" Toroff nakun in persian. there are a few dinner table conversations recorded of Abdul'Baha but I dont think he ever said this, at least the ones I read are in western settings so there would be no point saying it. hehe.

09-01-2011, 06:30 AM	#9
Fadl chief bottle washer Joined: Jun 2011 From: "Here am I, Here am I" Posts: 737	It's surely a cultural thing, not Baha'i. That being said, it's still important to take a person's culture into account and show courtesy and respect towards people of all cultures, Persian or not. There is nothing wrong with this practice. It rises from recognizing the fact that nearly everyone tries to be "polite" in certain settings, and will very often decline or refuse something that they actually want so as to seem polite and to not appear selfish or over indulgent. Naturally, every good host wants to satisfy the needs of their guest, and, being aware of the fact that people often pretend not to want something they want, will insist several times in an attempt to by pass this polite yet false refusal in order to truly satisfy the guest. To invoke ni taruf, is to ensure that polite pretenses have ended and the guest is truly satisfied and the host has truly provided. In my experience with Persians (most of them being Baha'i) the Persian people are humble, gracious, and generous. In this context the issue of taruf arises. Personally, I think it is an adorable custom, although I don't use it myself unless around Persians who I detect are doing it--then I do it too.