aidan

Do Baha'is celebrate Christmas?Its my favourite holiday.

kavaliro

As Baha'is we have our own holidays. We are encouraged to celebrate those holidays. So Baha'is don't gather amongst themselves for Christmas, for instance.

On the other hand, there is not a restriction saying we individually cannot participate in Christmas celebrations, only that we should not do so amongst ourselves.

For instance, my family is mostly Christian. I attend Christmas functions when my family gets together; that promotes family harmony (and usually affords an opportunity to talk about the Baha'i Faith.) Likewise, I've celebrated with Jewish friends at Jewish holidays, and there is no reason not to share in the joyous occasions of another faith should the occasion arise.

But I'd never expect to attend a Christmas celebration at a Baha'i Center, or among a gathering of Baha'is. It is possible perhaps that it's occurred on occasion somewhere, but it would be extremely unusual.

There is a celebration called Ayyam-i-ha ("The Days of Ha", or the intercalary days) It is a time of gift-giving and community service. The gifts are generally very small and/or hand-made, and the focus is on charity and community service. Also there is Naw-Ruz which is the Baha'i New Year and marks the end of the 19-day Fast (typically a big gathering amongst Baha'is), and Festival of Ridvan, which celebrates the announcement of Baha'u'llah of His Revelation, which is 12 days long and has three days where work is suspended.

cire perdue

I celebrate Xmas with my sister and extended family at times. I still like giving presents and getting them. It's not an issue for me.

arthra

In my case my in-laws are Christian and they invite us to their home to celebrate Christmas with them so we do that..

When Ayyam-i-Ha comes around we invite the in-laws to celebrate with us..so the children really have enjoyed all these holidays..

Also at work ..when I used to work..I would pull duty for Christians on their Holy Days and they worked covering me for Naw-Ruz and so on...

Among ourselves we don't have any Christmas trees or presents. For Ayyam-i-Ha we have a Camel hand puppet which carries presents for the days of Ayyam-i-Ha..

LordOfGoblins

I celebrate with my dads side of the family who are Christian. Sadly for them though they dont even care about the real spirit of Christmas and just do it for imitation and tradition. It would be nice to some-time perhaps do a bible study on Christmas day, that would be a more true-er Christmas then handing out presents, in my opinion.

Sboyce

I'm actually not celebrating Christmas this year with my family. I feel Christmas is commercialized beyond what the intent of Remembering the Miracle of the Birth of Christ.

Yeshua

I agree that Christmas has been woefully abused to a great extent in many western countries by capitalist consumerism

My family were actually having a discussion about that two weeks ago, when all of my extended family gathered together to celebrate my grandpa's 80th. My dad was speaking about how the real meaning of Christmas is the birth of Christ and how he's sick of all the obsession with trees, tinstle, presents, shopping etc. Everybody agreed with him.

For the last two Christmases' my family has deliberately kept it a more "low-key" and family affair. We no longer buy big lavish presents, since my brothers are now grown up, and so we focus on smaller gifts and the family spirit of coming together and sharing a common meal.

Every year since I was born myself and everybody I know from my old school has attended Christmas Eve Maas, which is a really beautiful service.

In fact the Mass is the highlight of Christmas for me.

Fadl

I wouldn't mind attending a Christmas mass with friend or family if I had any doing that, but as it is, I don't celebrate it at all, and find it all too unholy with the consumerism, etc. to give it notice at all.

Not to mention, that Jesus' birthday is unknown and likely doesn't coincide with the pagan winter solstice as it is observed in the west.

You know who does an interesting Christmas? Russians! They have christmas trees and presents for New Years, but Christmas, which they celebrate Jan 7 (why not?) is a holy day and people don't have parties and presents, but go to mass if they do anything at all. Much more dignified, in my opinion.

aidan

Jesus' date of birth is unknown.The Church chose to celebrate it at this time to counteract the pagan festival of the winter solstice.The Catholic Church used to celebrate Christmas on Jan 6 and some people still refer to it as "old" Christmas day

Yeshua

I agree with the consumerism aspect, however Christmas is still my favourite time of year At its heart, under all the layers of this materialistic society, its a celebraton of love and compassion, a time of unity amongst famalies, of charity and of the breaking down of barriers. A time of joy.

I personally think that the Church did the right thing in placing it on the winter solstice. The symbolism of the light of the infant Christ shinning out in the darkness of winter, of a world frozen by hatred and prejudice, truly moves me on a deep level.

And it didn't just choose December because of the already existent pagan celebration of Yule. It chose it also because the Jewish Festival of Light - Hanukkah - which the Gospel of John tells us Jesus celebrated, takes place in Winter. Again the symbolism of the light shinning out in darkness is here.

Reflect on the first chapter of the Gospel of John (or the Gospel of "Mary Magdalene" as I think it really should be called):

John 1
The prologue

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being 4 in him was life, and the life was the light of all people. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He himself was not the light, but he came to testify to the light. 9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through him; yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to what was his own, and his own people did not accept him. 12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth. 15 (John testified to him and cried out, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks ahead of me because he was before me.'") 16 From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made him known

Is there really a better time to celebrate Christmas, which is a feast most significantly of light, marking the entry onto earth of the "Light of the World" - than the heart of December, the heart of winter when the world is seeped in darkness?

It doesn't really concern me when Jesus was born. The date - year, or month - is not important at all. What's important is what his birth represents, both in the history of humankind and to humanity now. And in this respect the date of December 25th has more meaning for me - and in my honest opinion more relevance to Jesus' birth - than would the date of his real birth, whenever it was (we don't really know, can only guess).

The Jews and Christians, in my opinion, were correct to place their "Festivals of Light" in December (alth the Jews didn't really have a choice over the date since its simply when Judas Maccabues re-dedicated the Temple in December but you know what I mean )

The Russian Orthodox Divine Liturgy (as they call the mass), is truly stunning!

I went to a Greek Orthodox Christmas Eve Mass once and was just blown away by its beauty! It was a phenomenal experience. if I'm not mistaken the Orthodox date of Christmas (January) is earlier than the December date.

I think there is also a calendar difference (Ie they still use the Julian). The Orthodox have different dates for a lot of their feasts from the West. I love the rich diversity!

Yeshua

And might I add that, when I was younger - and please don't laugh at my childish innocence - I saw a picture of Abdu'l-Baha when I was looking through a list of the World Religions and reading about them (I must have been 9 or 10) and I saw Abdu'l-Baha. Immediatly his jolly face, his big white beard, his kind eyes made me think that he was Santa Claus! So Abdu'l-Baha has a rather fond signficance for me at Christmastime LOL Indeed Abdu'l-Baha was like a real life version of the Santa Claus myth! He embodied all the joy, innocence, goodness and Christ-likeness...If I ever have kids, I might show them the face of Abdu'l-Baha and say, "Here is Santa Claus" and when they grow old enough to know that Santa does not exist I could say, "Yes but Abdu'l-Baha is the face of the REAL Santa Claus" - and they will understand why I showed them his face, like when I was a child, and said it was "Santa Claus" and that I was not lying when I said so!

This picture speaks of Santa Claus/Christmas/Christ-likeness for me more than anything else:



When Jesus saw that his disciples were arguing over which of them was the greatest, “He sat down and called the twelve. . . .And he took a child and put him in the midst of them, and taking him in his arms, he said to them, ‘Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.’”

"Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given (Isaiah 9:6) = That is the mystery of Christmas, the Birth of a Child, a very extraordinary child but a child nonetheless and is also the message: We must embrace the innocence and piety of children if we ever hope to become like Jesus. Children are at the very centre of the modern Christmas celebrations in the West and this is hardly accidental for children, or rather the birth of a child, lies at the VERY heart and epicentre of the Christmas mystery

Yeshua

There is also a story of how 'Abdu'l-Baha celebrated Christmas, and some children thought that he was Father Chistmas, just as I did! LOL

Enjoy

"Later, on Christmas day, He visited Lord Lamington. In the evening He went to a Salvation Army hostel, where some five hundred of society's wrecks were gathered. He spoke to them, and donated twenty guineas to the hostel to provide them with a good meal and another night, as His guests. He also inspected the sleeping accommodation of the hostel, and a children's home as well. When He reached Cadogan Gardens that night, it was apparent that the sight of the condition of the unfortunate had distressed Him. A good many of His talks, in His drawing-room during the Christmas week, were concerned with the Birth and the Advent of Christ and the significance of baptism. One day He walked for an hour or so in Hyde Park and Kensington Gardens. Afterwards He went to a Christmas party for the impoverished. Wherever He came across children He showed them such kindness and consideration that some of them thought He was Father Christmas, and sang a song in His praise. At His London home, that day, He related an incident of days long past in 'Akká:

'I encountered a number of the poor who were very hungry, and they came to me a-begging. I pointed out a grocer's shop to them that was well-provisioned, and told them to help themselves and eat all they could; I would be responsible. As soon as they heard me say that, those hungry ill-starred people made a rush and looted the shop. The shopkeeper was screaming that he was being robbed, but no one took any notice of him. They were eating even the uncooked rice, and took provisions away with them.' Later, 'Abdu'l-Bahá compensated the grocer."

(H.M. Balyuzi, Abdu'l-Baha - The Centre of the Covenant, p. 351)


NOW THAT IS THE REAL WAY TO CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS! GOD BLESS ABDU'L-BAHA! I wish I could have been alive then too share that Christmas celebration with him. It must have been the most special of all! To think he celebrated Christmas here, in the UK, my home country I mean, WOW!

I really think that the above story should be posted to Christians around the world, to teach them how we should really be spending Christmas 2011, caring for the poor and the unfortunate who have no families, Christmas Turkeys, trees or any possesions to their name but who will spend Christmas Day alone and hungry. He was such a saintly man - Abdu'l-Baha! And - I knew he was Father Christmas! Haha see I told you! And I like how he visited the Salvation Army. My Mother used to work at a Salvation Army Soup Kitchen for the homeless. She also attended their religious services and one of my cousins still runs such a soup kitchen with his wife. They really are true Christians and they do so much good work

Yeshua

"...‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s life exemplified Bahá’u’lláh’s teachings about humility and service to others.

On Christmas night 1912, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá visited a Salvation Army shelter in London. A thousand homeless men were enjoying a special Christmas dinner. He spoke to them as they ate, reminding them that Jesus had been poor and that it was easier for the poor than the rich to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The men were enthralled. Some were so impressed that, in spite of their hunger and the rare dinner set before them, they forgot to eat.

As He left the shelter, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá gave the warden of the shelter some money with which to buy a similar dinner on New Year’s night. The men rose to their feet to cheer Him as He went, waving their knives and forks in the air. They hardly knew the decades of persecution that Abdu’l-Bahá had suffered for Bahá’u’lláh – trials greater than even these men knew..."

- Central figures

Fadl

Well, in some ways...YES! 'Abdu'l-Baha was certainly very generous, always giving to the poor, and to the children, he was known as very warm, happy, perhaps jolly ;-)

In fact, the Santa of today didn't really exist until the 19th century, so it shaped up during 'Abdu'l-Baha's time. Coincidence? Certainly! Still, delightful.

arthra

Yeshua wrote:

"Yes but Abdu'l-Baha is the face of the REAL Santa Claus" - and they will understand why I showed them his face, like when I was a child, and said it was "Santa Claus" and that I was not lying when I said so!

This picture speaks of Santa Claus/Christmas/Christ-likeness for me more than anything else..

My comment:

I'm sorry Yeshua but I doubt any Baha'is would compare "Santa Claus" with Abdul-Baha. Baha'i children may be exposed to say "Santa Claus" from their Christian friends but no one associates Abdul-Baha with an elf.

I would ask that your use of photos of Abdul-Baha be in a more respectful context...

"Your understanding that the portrayal of the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh in works of art is forbidden, is correct. The Guardian made it clear that this prohibition refers to all the Manifestations of God; photographs, or reproductions of portraits, of the Master may be used in books, but no attempt should be made to portray Him in dramatic or other works where He would be one of the 'dramatis personae'. However, there can be no objection to symbolic representation of such Holy Figures, provided it does not become a ritual and that the symbol used is not irreverent."

(From a letter dated 3 December 1972 from the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer)

Yeshua

I was not "disrespecting" Abdu'l-Baha whom I have the utmost respect for.

I was actually making a very important point about how Christmas is intimately woven with Jesus' teaching on child-like innocence, and how one can only receive the fruits of the Kingdom if he becomes like a child once more.

I was praising Abdu'l-Baha's warmth, gentility, goodness and generosity which I tied to the Santa Claus myth, expressing my ("personal) belief that 99 years ago he showed humanity how too TRULY celebrate Christmas and was even mistaken by children for Santa Claus because he so demonstrated the true spirit of Christmas.

arthra

which I tied to the Santa Claus myth, expressing my ("personal) belief that 99 years ago he showed humanity how too TRULY celebrate Christmas and was even mistaken by children for Santa Claus because he so demonstrated the true spirit of Christmas.

We don't need the Santa myth...

LordOfGoblins

For what its worth I didnt feel you are disrespecting Abdul'Baha. Although it should be said that his glory is something that resides within and would have little if anything to do with his physical appearance unless I am quite mistaken about how I understand this religion.
He was definately noted for his loving human qualities...

Fadl

You are right about that!

The 'Abdu'l-Baha reality is much greater than the Santa myth.

But I don't think Yeshua was being insulting, he was only sharing a life experience and impression as a child. Yeshua clearly respects 'Abdu'l-Baha, as well as all the figures of our faith, so it's important to remember that when reading his posts. We should also take care not to become offended, even had he meant offense (which he didn't):

I wonder if you might have been off guard and become offended, and then as a consequence hurt Yeshua's feelings with your remarks, Arthra? Just a thought. We all have our work cut out for us in trying to be come more like our Father in Heaven.

Yeshua

I was telling a pleasant little story about how Abdu'l-Baha celebrated Christmas one year with his British associates and was mistaken for Santa Claus, and tied this to the importance of the child-like soul at Christmastime and to Jesus' teachings. And I brought in a little story about how I, as a child, one saw a picture of Abdu'l-Baha in an RE textbook and thought he looked like Santa Claus. Oh! MORTAL sin, eh?

I agree that Abdu'l-Baha is vastly superior and incomparable to the Santa Claus myth! But I was hardly trying to offend him.

Yeshua

BTW this article courtesy of the Coptic Church explains how 25th of December came to be Christmas - actually the entire Church (East and West) has always celebrated Christmas on the 25th but calendar differences now mean that the Orthodox celebrate the "25th" according to the Julian Calendar, on the Gregorian Calendar January 7th. Its confusing!

Also the earliest date of celebrating Christ's birth was ACTUALLY THE "20TH OF MAY" BEFORE THE 25TH WAS CHOSEN

Christmas January 7th or December 25th?

Read:

"Following these decrees, as the Church of Rome celebrated Christmas 25 December 1582 A.D., the Eastern Churches still fasted as they showed 15 December or 19 Kiyahk on their Julian and Coptic calendars. As the Church of the East celebrated the feast of Nativity, it was already 4 January 1583 A.D. on Pope Gregory's new calendar. That gap widened by 3 more days over the next 4 centuries. This is why the Churches who still celebrate on 25 December according to the ancient Julian calendar (such as most of the Byzantine Churches and the non-Chalcedonian churches, except the Armenians) find themselves, in the 21st century, celebrating the Nativity on 7 January of the civil Gregorian new calendar. This will become 8 January after the year 2100 A.D."

So I'm afraid that EVERY Church celebrates Christmas on the 25th - it just depends what calendar you use!!

Yeshua

"...And it came to pass, when the Lord Jesus was born at Bethlehem of Judea, in the time of King Herod, behold, magi came from the east to Jerusalem, as Zoroaster had predicted; and there were with them gifts, gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. And they adored Him, and presented to Him their gifts. Then the Lady Mary took one of the swaddling-bands, and, on account of the smallness of her means, gave it to them; and they received it from her with the greatest marks of honor..."

- Syriac Infancy Gospel of the Saviour

As this apochryphal (but Orthodox) Infancy Gospel tells us, one of the most important elements of the Christmas story was the "Manifestation" (revealing) of Christ to the world when the Zoroastrian priests, the Magi - representing the first Gentiles to welcome the Messiah and Saviour of Humanity into the world - followed the star of Bethelehem and with their advanced astronomical skills came to offer Christ gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh (symbolizing the tripartite Zoroastrian creed of, "Good thoughts, Good words and Good deeds"). It is from this story that we have gift-giving at Christmas, especially to children.

Now given how important the prophet Zoroaster and his priests are too the Christmas story, is it not fitting that Christmas Day should be celebrated on the 25th of December, the day when Zoroastrians and Mithraists in the Roman Empire celebrated the birth of the Persian angel Mithra?

Mithra is in every way a foreshadowing of Jesus, and to this day all Iranians celebrated the Day of Mithra, which they call Yalta, on the 21st of December (the Romans calculated it as the 25th).

I get annoyed when I hear people say, "oh but Christmas is actually a pagan festival in origin".

Excuse me, but is Zoroastrianism "paganism"? And besides there was a lot of god-inspired truth in ancient pagan religions, and Christianity embraced that partial truth.

I regard the Zoroaster as being a genuine prophet of God, a harbinger of the Son of God and Zoroastrianism as a revealed faith - as do Baha'is.

How then can we begrudge the Early Church for choosing to celebrate Christmas on what was originally a Zoroastrian holy day, indeed on the Persian Festival of winter solstice?

Given that Persian Zoroastrians were the first non-Jews, the first Gentiles to recognize Christ, is it not fitting that the "gentile" Church should chose a Zoroastrian feast-day to celebrate the birth of Christ, and his Manifestation (revealing) to the Nations of the Earth?

It is said that Iranians celebrated the birth of Mithra as early as 5000 B.C

Also it should be noted though about the name "Yalda":

"...The word "Yalda" derives from the Syriac term signifiying "birth". A winter solstice festival - Shab-e-Chelle - had already been celebrated throughout Iranian world even prior to the introduction of the word Yalda during the early Sassanid era...The process by which the term Yalda entered Persian language...is probably attributable to Syriac Christians who received protection from Sassanid monarchs. While these Christians that brough 'Yalda' to Iran presumabely associated the festival with the birth of Christ, the proximity of December 25th to the day of the Winter Solstice (21st December or 22nd) eventually led to the two festivals being conflated and celebrated as one..."

cire perdue

"Also sprach Zaratusta" (mispelled badly I fear) the theme for 2001 is pretty special. More I read somewhere is that when Alexander burned Persopolis that it destroyed the books of Zoroaster that were written on great sheets of bull hide. I have told people for years that the Magi were Zoroastrians.

Prodaytrader

Christmas was a big holiday in my house as well. Since my daughter was born 4 years ago I find the desire to start shifting away from it. When I was a kid, my mother and I were the only two Baha'is, with my daughter and wife added we now have 4. So a times indeed are a changin. Christmas has become too much about consumerism over the years so I am making an active effort to deemphasize the holiday in an effort to cement my child's identity as a Baha'i. It's not easy.

I just read a quote that said we are more then welcome to maintain our loyalties to other traditions. Something to the effect that the number 9 includes the number 8 and so on. So as a Bahai, we are Christian too which means there is nothing wrong with celebrating Christ's birth. I'm just not sure Christmas is really about celebrating Christ's birth these days. It seems it's more about consumerism then anything else. Buy buy buy until you run out of cash and when that happens your expected to get out the credit cards and buy some more. Well not this year! This year I'm boycotting the facade that we call X-mas!

cire perdue

I may exchange gifts with my sister, her husband, and an Aunt. I gave my bro-in-law my father's mechanical 14k watch one XMAS and it was a true gift that helped us love each other more. I am so glad I did that! I hope I get to go to XMAS mass this year in the St. Louis Cathederal in New Orleans. That WILL be special. I think seeing Abdul'baha as the "real" Santa Claus is a compliment. Poor Santa started as a saint and has been martyred by commercialism. That is a shame. It is good to reframe Santa to be like Abdul'baha who is the Exemplar of the Baha'i Faith as I am told that Mary is the Exemplar of Orthodox Christianity. Mary gave herself over to God to bear the Christ Child. That is a quite an example to me.

Fadl

I got so tired of being perplexed about family who kept on giving me Christmas gifts even after I'd said numerous times that I don't want to celebrate it, and after I'd said I don't feel the occasion feels reverent enough for something that should be regarded as holy, I one day figured to heck with 'em!

Now I regularly send out Ayyam-i-Ha gifts each February.

Yeshua

Amen! A wonderful post brother.

Wow! I also really hope that you get to go to Mass in St Louis' Cathedral! Do you know how special that is for American Catholics? Its like the Catholic Mother Temple of the US! The Cathedral-Basilica of St. Louis King of France is the oldest Catholic cathedral in continual use in the United States!

That would be awesome


Yes the Santa Claus tale started out as, and was inspired by, the true story of Saint Nicholas of Myra - a Bishop of the Early Church (third century) who suffered under the reign of the Emperor Diocletian, the perpetrator of the worst persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire, the "Great Persecution". Because of the many miracles attributed to his intercession, he is also known as Nikolaos the Wonderworker. He had a reputation for secret gift-giving, such as putting coins in the shoes of those poor people who left them out for him, and thus became the model for Santa Claus, whose modern name comes from the Dutch Sinterklaas (Saint Nicholas). He is the Patron Saint of Children. His Feastday is on the 6th of December. Saint Nicholas Day is a festival for children in many countries in Europe related to surviving legends of the saint, and particularly his reputation as a bringer of gifts. The American Santa Claus, as well as the Anglo-Canadian and British Father Christmas, derive from these legends.

See this wonderful website: "St Nicholas Center: Discover the Truth about Santa Claus"

"...The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas, who was born during the third century in the village of Patara. At the time the area was Greek and is now on the southern coast of Turkey. His wealthy parents, who raised him to be a devout Christian, died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young. Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God and was made Bishop of Myra while still a young man. Bishop Nicholas became known throughout the land for his generosity to the those in need, his love for children, and his concern for sailors and ships.

Under the Roman Emperor Diocletian, who ruthlessly persecuted Christians, Bishop Nicholas suffered for his faith, was exiled and imprisoned. The prisons were so full of bishops, priests, and deacons, there was no room for the real criminals—murderers, thieves and robbers. After his release, Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. He died December 6, AD 343 in Myra and was buried in his cathedral church...


Children around the world know and love St. Nicholas—for he brings gifts and treats in December. He is known by different names—and even looks different from place to place. But, it is the same St. Nicholas who delights with small surprises and good things to eat. Nicholas gave in secret, alert to others' needs, and expecting nothing for himself in return. It is this selfless generosity which seeks only the good of the other that made Nicholas' gifts the gifts of a saint"

St. Nicholas Center ::: Who is St. Nicholas?

As a holy man and saint now in heaven, St Nicholas still continues to give "gifts" (of a spiritual nature) to those who invoke his name For many centuries Christian parents have been telling their children that on St Nicholas Day (and later on Christmas Day) Saint Nick comes down from heaven (and later on the North Pole :/ yes that secularization for you) and secretly gives gifts to good little boys and girls, in the middle of the night, while everyone is sleeping. He gives freely, without wanting anything n return - thats the true spirit of Christmas, that has been lost by consumerism.

This tradition began in the 11th and 12th centuries, about a thousand years ago. St Nicholas, or Santa Claus, always gave in secret. Secretly leaving treats on the eve of St. Nicholas Day is thought to have originated in France during the twelfth century, when a group of nuns were inspired to imitate Nicholas’ gift-giving midnight missions. Nuns in France began leaving treats on St. Nicholas Eve, December 5th, for the small children of poor families. St. Nicholas' gifts were usually good things to eat: apples, oranges, nuts, and eventually (in more contemporary times) cookies and sweets. The custom quickly spread across Europe and St. Nicholas Feast Day, December 6th, was celebrated by both rich and poor.

The idea, of course, was that even after his death Saint Nicholas still wanted to secretly give gifts to people. And so in the Middle Ages parents started to tell their children, "Oh! look! Saint Nicholas has come in the middle of the night and secretly given you gifts". This was to teach children from early on the meaning of selfless giving to others, with no thought of benefit in return.

I fondly remember being a little child and coming downstairs on Christmas morning and being told by my parents that, "Santa's came!" (and my parents, being Christians, always told me that Santa was Saint Nicholas whom God had granted magical powers enabling him to come every year at Christmas and reward good little boys and girls with presents ) and then I would run into the living room and open them up with great excitement, thanking Saint Nick for his generosity but also wondering - when was anyone going to give Santa a gift? That's of course why I left out a jam sandwhich and a glass of milk the night on Christmas Eve, by the fire, as a "thank you" for Saint Nick's selfless giving

Yeshua

I think that's a wonderful idea!

Yeshua

Yes you are absolutely spot on! The Blessed Virgin Mary is considered by us to be the greatest exemplar of Catholic and Orthodox Christianity. In the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox liturgies she is titled Queen of the Apostles, Mother of the Church, and said to be "More glorious than the cherubim, and incomparably more honoured than the seraphim" - which in Christianity are the highest orders of the angels. The Second Vatican Council calls Mary the Church's best exemplar in faith and charity, its best model of virtues as well as Our Mentor and Mother.

Here is a link to the Second Vatican Council's teachings on her from Lumen Gentium:

Virgin Mary in Second Vatican Council. Lumen Gentium. Catholic Hythe extra information on modern theology on Mary Mother of God

A small excerpt:

"...The Virgin Mary, who at the message of the angel received the Word of God in her heart and in her body and gave Life to the world, is acknowledged and honored as being truly...endowed with the high office and dignity of being the Mother of the Son of God, by which account she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit. Because of this gift of sublime grace she far surpasses all creatures, both in heaven and on earth. At the same time, however, because she belongs to the offspring of Adam she is one with all those who are to be saved. She is "the mother of the members of Christ . . . having cooperated by charity that faithful might be born in the Church, who are members of that Head."(3*). Wherefore she is hailed as a pre-eminent and singular member of the Church, and as its type and excellent exemplar in faith and charity. The Catholic Church, taught by the Holy Spirit, honors her with filial affection and piety as a most beloved mother...Predestined from eternity by that decree of divine providence which determined the incarnation of the Word to be the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin was in this earth the virgin Mother of the Redeemer, and above all others and in a singular way the generous associate and humble handmaid of the Lord. She conceived, brought forth and nourished Christ. she presented Him to the Father in the temple, and was united with Him by compassion as He died on the Cross. In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace"

- DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH, LUMEN GENTIUM, SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964


In the Qur'an, the Virgin Mary is the only woman mentioned by name in the holy book and the only woman to have an entire Sura (Chapter) named after her.

When naming the best woman who ever lived, Mohammed named Mary (Maryam in Arabic), the mother of Jesus, as the best woman to ever live - placing her even above his own mother which must have took great humility indeed - and therefore Muslims revere her as the holiest woman in the history of mankind.

"And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! God hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation."

- Qur'an 3:42


As if this weren’t amazing enough Mary will even be the most prominent woman in paradise:

Narrated Umm Salamah: In the year of the Conquest Allah's messenger (peace be upon him) called Fatimah and spoke privately to her and she wept; he then spoke to her and she laughed. When Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) died she asked her about her weeping and her laughing and she replied, "Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) informed me that he was going to die, so I wept; he then informed me that, with the exception of Mary, daughter of Imran, I should be the chief lady among the inhabitants of Paradise, so I laughed." Tirmidhi transmitted it. (Tirmidhi Hadith)

LordOfGoblins

Anyone who wants to send some Christmas spirit my way by sending me presents feel more than welcome, just dont expect anything in return.
MUUHAHAHAHAH

cire perdue

Actually I already had switches and coal packed to send.

Gee, I was always confused about the Xmas things. I knew I was a bad boy, b/c I was a lot of trouble just b/c I was a child. I was shocked to get presents for Xmas. I knew at an early age there was something that was not quite right about Santa Claus, because I was a bad boy and got presents anyway!

Eftekhar Be Khoda

It's common in eastern europe. They go by the Orthodox calendar and thus most holy days don't match up with our western calendar. It makes things easier for most of them to keep the Christmas miracle separated from Giftmas. In a lot of Europe, they have presents on St. Nicholas' Day rather than Christmas, so I think the idea of Christmas meaning lots of presents is either purely British or American. No one else does that.

tahirabs

My community has a community devotional every sunday. Different community memebers volunter to plan the service each sunday for our home town community. For Christmas the last 3 years I've taken it upon myself to do a "What do Baha'is believe about His Holiness Christ" service sometime the month of Dec. I provide writings about Jesus from Bahaullah, play christmas music, make chillie for everyone and envite all my friends/family (Baha'i and non). This is a great way to teach the faith and many people have told me how much they love this. (both Baha'is who grew up Christian and non-Baha'is too). This is just an idea I came up with. Hope this helps some...

Yeshua

I'm a non-Baha'i and I would love to mark Christmas by attending such a service! What a wonderful way to keep the Christmas spirit alive! You are doing a great job Tahirabs - and I don't think I've encountered you yet on the forum, so allow me to add that I am most pleased to meet you dear brother! And at this cold time of year, stuck in doors studying for Criminal Law I could sure be doing with some of that home-made chillie!

I daresay that I think you are on too something.

Welcome to the forum!

UmmNoorie

We usually celebrate Christmas with the family as well. However, we do not recognize the religious significance of it when we celebrate it. For us, it's similar to having a dinner party with presents for the younger children. We usually have a small Christmas tree and some decorations put up.

I don't have an issue with celebrating any holiday, because I think it's more about showing solidarity than anything else.

When my husband and I were more involved with the Muslim community here, we had people of different faiths attending Eid functions (marks the end of Ramadan). We also celebrate the Hindu festival "Diwali" with my relatives, and that's fun too!

arthra

One thing i know some Baha'is have done is offer to pull shifts for Christian workers so they can be with their families..

Violet

For those who do not celebrate Christmas and are parents, what do you tell your children about Santa? What do you do if they wants presents?

For Baha'i's who celebrate Christmas somewhat, do you celebrate the more religious aspects and go to a religious service? Or more the secular side of a big family dinner and gift exchange?

@arthra - That's a great idea, concept. I know Jews and Hindus in my office word on Christmas (my work is a 24-7 environment) so Christians can have the day off.

arthra

Baha'is don't celebrate Christmas among themselves.. If your family is Christian we can celebrate with them.. If we're invited to attend a religious service we can attend as guests..but we wouldn't say take communion or do anythiing that would imply we were members of a church..

When children are involved they can enjoy the gifts of Christmas and Ayyam-i-Ha if say your family is Christian.. Ayyam-i-Ha is our four or five day gift exchange..and of course Christians can attend that. Yuo can also take advantage of after-Christmas sales and stock up for Ayyam-i-Ha...

Of course our Ayyam-i-Ha is more of a community affair also but it can also be a family time too.. as you would have four or five days to celebrate.

As to Santa I'd be very honest with my child and explain to them where it comes from.. not encourage a belief in the myth of Santa.. They wil be exposed of course to a lot of stuff when they go to school or day care...

LordOfGoblins

Okay so I was just at staff lunch and shard my view on Christmas and the girl besides me is a bit shocked that I wouldnt be into the whole santa thing. It seems to be a real art to be able to present the ideas in the staff lunch environment in a way that you dont sound like you are trying to ruins people Christmas fun and their "spirit". So I basically said that I dont really mind but I would like people to pay more attention to the meaning of Christmas. The Bosses wife heard me and she was like explaining how they dont do many presensts and things. I wonder if people always feel they must be defensive with me? Anyway that is my teaching experience for the day. I tried to be as sensitive as I could in the process but when I suggested a bible study the girl next to me looks at me funny.. oh well.

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordOfGoblins [W]hen I suggested a bible study the girl next to me looks at me funny.. oh well.

Ask her again later in a more neutral circumstance.

That way she's more likely to understand that you're sincere and weren't trying to be ironic or something. . . .

Peace,

Bruce