Does this violate the law on not having images of the Manifestations?

EternalStudent · 03-09-2012, 07:06 AM

My mother bought me a t-shirt that has a picture of Jesus crucified on it, and under that it says "Called to Duty" (obviously a play on CoD (Call of Duty)), and a quote from Jesus talking about how "greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."
Now, I know we're not allowed to have images around the house of the Manifestations, nor in a place of worship, but does this extend to not having a t-shirt with an image of the Crucifixion on it?
And while I'm at it, she also ordered me a t-shirt with a picture of the three crosses on it, but without the people on them. Is there anything in the Writings that would imply that I cannot wear this one?

cire perdue · 03-09-2012, 07:33 AM

However I would not want a T shirt like that. No one else can buy my clothes. Twice women have bought me shirts, both times were disasters.......You can wear them. We have images of Abdul'baha. I would never wear a T shirt of Him. I think a T shirt is kind of an irreverant place for those kind of images, but people wear them all the time. Baha'is don't wear our symbols like that except 9 pointed stars. I'd be more worried about hurting Mom's feelings. But gee thanks, Mom, why didn't you just get me something with less of your issues in it......Now be careful here. Mom's feelings are always going to be important, so be tactful and kind. How about, "Thanks Mom, but I'd rather pick out my own clothes when it comes to messages. I hope you won't be upset if I don't wear these."

She should be grateful you are not into GOTH!!!!!!!!!!!

EternalStudent · 03-09-2012, 07:53 AM

Haha, her feelings aren't going to be hurt. The shirt will just end up going to my younger brother John (it's a large, so it may be a little big on him, but he'll grow into it.). He's a Baptist, and they have no problems with wearing t-shirts with Jesus on them (in fact, it's encouraged.).

By "Baha'is don't wear our symbols like that except 9 pointed stars." did you mean the t-shirt she ordered me with the three crosses on it? Or was that still talking about the one with Jesus on it?

Eric · 03-09-2012, 09:20 AM

Perhaps this communication between an individual believer and the Universal House of Justice can answer your question:

QUESTION: The writer explains that he is a school teacher of "Religious Education and Drama' and as such is 'often called upon to represent or use representations of Manifestations of God' in the form of 'books and posters'. He is aware of the guidance about not representing Bahá'u'lláh, the Báb and the Master in drama, and enquires, "Does this command...hold good for the other Manifestations of God, and if so, what should a Bahá'í teacher's standpoint be on this matter''

RESPONSE:

The prohibition on representing the Manifestation of God in paintings and drawings or in dramatic presentations applies to all the Manifestations of God. There are, of course, great and wonderful works of art of past Dispensations, many of which portrayed the Manifestations of God in a spirit of reverence and love. In this Dispensation however the greater maturity of mankind and the greater awareness of the relationship between the Supreme Manifestation and His servants enable us to realize the impossibility of representing, in any human form, whether pictorially, in sculpture or in dramatic representation, the person of God's Manifestation. In stating the Bahá'í prohibition, the beloved Guardian pointed out this impossibility.

(From a letter dated 9 March 1977 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer)

cire perdue · 03-09-2012, 01:35 PM

Good job Eric. I did not know that was that specific.

E S Crosses as earrings bother me. It seems to me to be a more sacred symbol than a 9 pointed star, but I may be prejudice. IS the cross a casaual symbol? I could see a 9 pointed star used in lots more places than a cross.

Orthodox · 03-09-2012, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire perdue

Good job Eric. I did not know that was that specific.

E S Crosses as earrings bother me. It seems to me to be a more sacred symbol than a 9 pointed star, but I may be prejudice. IS the cross a casaual symbol? I could see a 9 pointed star used in lots more places than a cross.

The cross is an icon by which we are reminded of the works of Christ who paid for our sins. Hence it is a very powerful icon, figuratively and literally.

cire perdue · 03-10-2012, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox

The cross is an icon by which we are reminded of the works of Christ who paid for our sins. Hence it is a very powerful icon, figuratively and literally.

I do not care for a cross used so casually and I think you agree. It is a powerful icon that deserves respect. Earrings made of crosses make me queasy. 9 pointed stars would not, but I could be wrong.

EternalStudent · 03-10-2012, 03:50 AM

Not earrings, a t-shirt. Which would be just as disrespectful as earrings, I guess. Well, I guess I won't be able to wear either of those shirts. John likes them though, so I guess he gets two new shirts. Thanks for the help y'all!

03-09-2012, 07:06 AM	#1
EternalStudent Senior Member Joined: Jan 2012 From: Pleasant Plains, Arkansas Posts: 191	Does this violate the law on not having images of the Manifestations? My mother bought me a t-shirt that has a picture of Jesus crucified on it, and under that it says "Called to Duty" (obviously a play on CoD (Call of Duty)), and a quote from Jesus talking about how "greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." Now, I know we're not allowed to have images around the house of the Manifestations, nor in a place of worship, but does this extend to not having a t-shirt with an image of the Crucifixion on it? And while I'm at it, she also ordered me a t-shirt with a picture of the three crosses on it, but without the people on them. Is there anything in the Writings that would imply that I cannot wear this one?

03-09-2012, 07:33 AM	#2
cire perdue Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: Louisiana Posts: 1,715	NOt to my knowledge However I would not want a T shirt like that. No one else can buy my clothes. Twice women have bought me shirts, both times were disasters.......You can wear them. We have images of Abdul'baha. I would never wear a T shirt of Him. I think a T shirt is kind of an irreverant place for those kind of images, but people wear them all the time. Baha'is don't wear our symbols like that except 9 pointed stars. I'd be more worried about hurting Mom's feelings. But gee thanks, Mom, why didn't you just get me something with less of your issues in it......Now be careful here. Mom's feelings are always going to be important, so be tactful and kind. How about, "Thanks Mom, but I'd rather pick out my own clothes when it comes to messages. I hope you won't be upset if I don't wear these." She should be grateful you are not into GOTH!!!!!!!!!!!

03-09-2012, 09:20 AM	#4
Eric Member Joined: Feb 2011 From: The Netherlands Posts: 84	Perhaps this communication between an individual believer and the Universal House of Justice can answer your question: QUESTION: The writer explains that he is a school teacher of "Religious Education and Drama' and as such is 'often called upon to represent or use representations of Manifestations of God' in the form of 'books and posters'. He is aware of the guidance about not representing Bahá'u'lláh, the Báb and the Master in drama, and enquires, "Does this command...hold good for the other Manifestations of God, and if so, what should a Bahá'í teacher's standpoint be on this matter'' RESPONSE: The prohibition on representing the Manifestation of God in paintings and drawings or in dramatic presentations applies to all the Manifestations of God. There are, of course, great and wonderful works of art of past Dispensations, many of which portrayed the Manifestations of God in a spirit of reverence and love. In this Dispensation however the greater maturity of mankind and the greater awareness of the relationship between the Supreme Manifestation and His servants enable us to realize the impossibility of representing, in any human form, whether pictorially, in sculpture or in dramatic representation, the person of God's Manifestation. In stating the Bahá'í prohibition, the beloved Guardian pointed out this impossibility. (From a letter dated 9 March 1977 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer) Last edited by Eric; 03-09-2012 at 09:22 AM.

03-09-2012, 01:35 PM	#5
cire perdue Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: Louisiana Posts: 1,715	Wow Good job Eric. I did not know that was that specific. E S Crosses as earrings bother me. It seems to me to be a more sacred symbol than a 9 pointed star, but I may be prejudice. IS the cross a casaual symbol? I could see a 9 pointed star used in lots more places than a cross.

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03-09-2012, 07:53 AM	#3
EternalStudent Senior Member Joined: Jan 2012 From: Pleasant Plains, Arkansas Posts: 191	Haha, her feelings aren't going to be hurt. The shirt will just end up going to my younger brother John (it's a large, so it may be a little big on him, but he'll grow into it.). He's a Baptist, and they have no problems with wearing t-shirts with Jesus on them (in fact, it's encouraged.). By "Baha'is don't wear our symbols like that except 9 pointed stars." did you mean the t-shirt she ordered me with the three crosses on it? Or was that still talking about the one with Jesus on it?

03-10-2012, 03:50 AM	#8
EternalStudent Senior Member Joined: Jan 2012 From: Pleasant Plains, Arkansas Posts: 191	Not earrings, a t-shirt. Which would be just as disrespectful as earrings, I guess. Well, I guess I won't be able to wear either of those shirts. John likes them though, so I guess he gets two new shirts. Thanks for the help y'all!