Ny216

Hello! I am a Baha'i who is considering marrying a Catholic man. I have already read in Lights of Guidance that children from such a union are allowed to be baptized at birth and educated in both religions. Also, since the age of the child at Confirmation is so close to the Age of Maturity, they will declare their faith at the age of 15. My question is this: are they allowed to have their First Communion as well? (I think this is typically around 7 or 8 years old?). Any light you could shed on the subject would be great! Thanks

ruhi2012

Hi, congrats on your upcoming marriage first of all! I think its great! Speaking on my behalf i don't think is any problem if the kids have a communion at all. We only declare ourselves Baha'i at 15 (If the kids want to be of course!) so until then...they are Catholic so...do what the Catholics do :-)

Iconodule

I would reccomend not doing so. As you would be forcing him to violate the rule of Saint Paul on this issue of not being unequally yoked in marriage. You cannot raise children in two religions, they must be reared in one. As for first communion I'm sure any liberal Catholic priest would give it to just about anyone, but properly speaking communion is for believers and believers only. Those baptised and Chrismated in Christ and if they are being raised "Bahai" it would seem the best course of action would be to deny those children communion as they are not worthy of it.

BruceDLimber

What you need to understand and appreciate is that in Baha'i child-raising, the child is to be taught about ALL the great religions, not just about the Baha'i Faith! (Baha'i schools assist in this. For example, when my son was six years old, he was already in a comparative-religion class at Baha'i school where he learned about the validity and goodness of many religions.)

Then when the child reaches the Age of Maturity (15), he or she may freely choose:

• to become a Baha'i,
• to become something else, or
• not to become anything at all.

And the parents MAY NOT interfere in this decision!

Works great for us, and it's something I hope you can explain to your partner such that you both see the virtues of this approach.

Peace, :-)

Bruce

LordOfGoblins

according to who though?
Iconodules wisdom or something else?

Iconodule

Its a precedent set forth in the Old testament, that one ought to rear their children in the faith, that one if they care for their children teach them true religion. This has been the standard model of Christianity since the begining, when baptising an infant this is not and should never be an act of merely celebrating birth. No its entering the church and the parent has the specific oblgiation to rear that child in the church if they should baptise that child as of such. We follow the mode left for us and it is a good model.

Rani

I don't know the answer to the question, sorry, but with respect, I don't think we should say they are Catholic or of any other religious faith before turning 15.


If it were me I would steer clear from agreeing to have your child 'Confirmed' in another Faith before the age of maturity -15.

Is the age of confirmation in the Catholic Church 14 or 12??

It seems you are essentially asking two questions: One about Confirmation and the other about First Communion ??

arthra

It's always best to consult with your Assembly...but here is the guidance on educating children:



1297. Two Essential Obligations Regarding Education of Children

"In all cases of marriage of Bahá'ís to followers of other religions the Bahá'í has two essential obligations as regards the children:

a. He must not educate or assume a vow to educate the children of the marriage in a religion other than his own.

b. He must do whatever he can to provide for the training of the children in the Bahá'í teachings. 389

"...Bearing in mind the obligation of the Bahá'í parents to
offer his child a Bahá'í education, there is no objection to the
attendance of the child of a Bahá'í parent, or even a Bahá'í child,
at a parochial school if circumstances require."

(From letter of the Universal House of Justice to the National
Spiritual Assembly of the United States, May 10, 1966)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 388)

smaneck

Baha'is do not consider outselves 'unequally yoked' when we marry a Christian nor do we refrain from taking communion because we consider ourselves 'unworthy.' Rather it is because of something else Paul said. He stated that communion is something that should be done until the Lord comes, and Baha'is believe He has already come. As for children taking communion, I would think that the child should abstain once they come to the realization that Baha'u'llah is indeed the return of Christ, whatever age they might be. But let it be their own choice. Until then I don't see any problem with their participating in the rites of the Catholic Church if one of their parents is Catholic. It just shouldn't be to the extent that they are denied a Baha'i education as well.

ruhi2012

@Rani..

I personally find that very unfair. The father is/will be Catholic...what is he supposed to do? Keep his mouth shut because his wife's a Bahai and so therefore the kids will undoubtedly become Bahai's at the age of 15? What if the one kid says no, i choose not too? Whats' mom gonna do? tie him down with rope and beat him? I'm more then 5th generation Baha'i and I declared at the age of 15 and YES I sometimes regret it because it was ''expected of me'' but how i wish i had not and that i first really read more deeply and discovered the faith like a new Bahai' discovers the faith so i can have that passion that they have.

Let the kids be educated about both religions, taught about both religions, sent to church and to Bahai' activities and celebrate the Holy occasions of BOTH religions! We even celebrate Christmas at home...is it a sin? Hell no! The children's father is Catholic and it will be just as important to him that his children grow up knowing just as much about his religion and doing what Catholics do as it would be important for a Baha'i parent.

NY216: As you can see, this is a VERY SERIOUS issue....I sincerely am keeping my fingers crossed for you and your husband to be that this issue gets sorted out BEFORE marriage because now with love in the air and everything all pink and peachy you might feel all problems will be sorted but once honeymoons over...these are issues you will deal with and you don't want them to start before any kids even enter the marriage otherwise sweets.....once it starts.....good luck. I sincerely hope the love you have for each other is strong enough to deal with this issue when it arises. All the best of luck and congrats yet again and I sincerely hope that you will have a wonderful marriage and you will....but really discuss these issues deeply and even write a letter to the House if necessary. Anyway....

Rani

Dear Ruhi,

I'm not sure which sentence of mine you feel is unfair.(?)

I certainly never said that the children should not be educated about both religions. I think they should!

I only felt it was not quite fitting to say they are Catholic until they turn 15, 'cos that is what you said in your first reply.

If they were to be considered as both 'catholic' and 'baha'i, that would seem fine (to me); but anyway these are just appellations in a sense, as we know it will be the child's choice eventually.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but judging by the quote Arthra has given, it just cements my initial thoughts..

Educate in both religions, Yes, -I just felt that a child should not be called by the name of one religion over another in this kind of situation. But okay, that's me.

Rani

Oh and I'm sorry if I offended. - I didn't think I implied the husband should keep his mouth shut either.
Seems discussion on forums can easily lead to misunderstandings.

I think we all want the same things. -Harmony within families and independent choice as the birthright of each child.
It only gets sticky if one parent is unwilling for the child to be exposed to the religious Faith of the other parent.

Rani

Ny216,
I guess you have most likely seen these quotes, but thought I'd post them, as I'm not sure there's anything more specific.

499. Training of Children in Case One of Parents is Non-Bahá'í

"The question of the training and education of children in case one of the parents is a non-Bahá'í is one which solely concerns the parents themselves, who should decide about it the way they find best and most conducive to the maintenance of the unity of their family, and to the future welfare of their children. Once the child comes of age, however, he should be given full freedom to choose his religion, irrespective of the wishes and desires of his parents."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of India, December 14, 1940: Dawn of a New Day, p. 86)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 149)


180. No Bahá'í Can Swear to Bring up His Children in Another Religion nor Be Married in Church as a Christian

"... As the Guardian pointed out..., no Bahá'í can conscientiously swear to bring up his children in another religion; and of course he has no right to lie; therefore it becomes impossible for him to make such a promise on his marriage to a non - Bahá'í. ..'

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the European Teaching Committee, May 13, 1936)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 51)



523. Children Should be Free to Choose Their Own Religion

"Shoghi Effendi wishes me to acknowledge the receipt of your letter which you wrote concerning Catholic marriage and the promise that any resulting children should be Catholic.

"The basic principle of the Cause is independent investigation of truth. This applies to us as much as to our children. They should be free to chose for themselves any religion they wish. To promise that they will belong to a certain Faith and not to another is therefore not only contrary to our precepts, but is also a futile promise to give. How can we make the future generation think as we do or follow our dictates. God has made them free. All that we can do is to open their eyes and tell them of what we think to be the truth."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, March 3, 1931)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 156)

Mwana

Well, that raises a question from me then. I am new to this and I have been "discovering" the Baha'i faith for the past months now. I have been in a marriage for 16 years and we have children. He is a christian, but not really practicing. He does consider it a very important part of his cultural heritage, but he would never force them into church or Bible studies. As far as he is concerned his view coincides with your perspective on this (and judging from the quotes Rani cited this agrees with the Baha'i teachings as well).

Getting the children acquainted with both (if not all) religions is the only workable solution for us. I seems to me it is the only fair solution for both partners and their children.

ruhi2012

@ Rani: Look, my apologies. I didn't take what you said offensively. I just presumed you meant if a kid was going to become Baha'i anyway at 15 then in a way whats the use of them being any other religion till then. Of course no religion should be forced upon anyone but yet it is good for them to get to know all religions and be taught about all religions but anyway...i forgot my point lol...um...yah...anyway i can see from your response that's not what you meant.

As for what i said about me and being a Baha'i etc , I am very grateful and happy i was privileged to be born into a Baha'i family but ...and this is strictly a personal thing....i sometimes wish i had not because i always look at new Baha'is and see the passion they have when they have just discovered the faith and the writings and i think being born into a Baha'i' family, we take it for granted and its the ''norm'' and so we don't really feel what new Baha'i' feel. I'm speaking for myself now neh....if Baha'i's born into Baha'i families have no problems well then that's great, lucky them. Anyway. I just don't want Baha'i's to end up with this mentality that okay the Baha'i faith is the Religion for this day and age so to hell with any other religion then. Once we become fanatics in that and act like Mullah's and the All-Knowings and All wisests and try to enforce our beliefs then on others then ooi ooi oooi..even i walk in the opposite direction. I'm happy enough if someone even believes there is God and that they themselves aren't God because there quit a few of those too aren't there?

Oh well....I'll apologize too if my reply came to hard over...if I'm wrong I'm wrong..no prob admitting it. I just hope NY216 and her husband to be, sort this issue out in the best way possible for the kids.

arthra

Anyway. I just don't want Baha'i's to end up with this mentality that okay the Baha'i faith is the Religion for this day and age so to hell with any other religion then.

I really don't see that happening where I live... In my case my wife and I became Baha'is separately and met. Our children were raised Baha'i but we also allowed them to have Christmas and Easter with their grandparents and the grandparents in their turn participated in Ayyam-i-Ha...

In raising our children I exposed them to worship in Mosques,churches and synagogues along with Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist Temples.. I think the only religion I didn't expose them to at the time was Zoroastrian but that was because there were no organized Temples around where we lived.

All my children are still Baha'is and from time to time do their part in the community.

I would also say that having a respect for other religions is part of Baha'i life!

Iconodule

Communion is something which was done that Paul makes note of. How can one take of communion unworthily as saint Paul would indicate if he were saying that it should only be taken when the Lord comes? No that doesn’t fly, the church which was true for 600 years according to bahai standards took communion and it was an integral and still is crucial part of the church, it might as well be omni important if that can be considered a phrase. But yes, it would be unequally yoking for a bahai and a Christian to marry each other. Two faiths which at fundamental levels completely contradict each other. The bahai would insist the children not be raised Christian, and the Christian must insist they are raised Christian. There is a fundamental dichotomy which cannot be reconciled despite all the hope you may have it might. I don’t say this out of anger or an attempt to be mean but to show the reality of the situation. You as a bahai could never commune at a Catholic church, never receive the sacraments never receive Christ.
But I think in you saying that about communion you have established why a bahai and a Christian should never marry. If you cannot agree on Christ you cannot agree on anything. And you cannot participate in the rites of the catholic church unless you are fully catholic to do so is disengenious. Shurely you see that?

ruhi2012

@Arthra: exactly...I'm saying the same thing I just word mine differently.