Napkin

Mireillie,

They cant do that. They are instructed to encourage him to seek medical help and overcome his gay handicap. Even if they don't do what their prophet says, how would the answer the guy when he asks why they are following a religion that considers him sick?

Noexalt

Ferrera,

The problem is a biggie. It stems from the pattern that most people have of reading the writings and seeing those words like "handicap", "distortion","aberration", "against nature" and then translating those words into an assumed supported behavior of treating or viewing homosexuals differently, specifically in a very negative light.

Another interesting quote is this one

As for the responsibility of Assemblies and of individual Bahá'ís, certainly all are called upon to be understanding, supportive and helpful to any individual who carries the burden of homosexuality.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1993 Jun 05, Homosexuality, p. 7)

People read this and think that they have a personal individual responsibility to get the homosexual to change or to carry a continuous air of disapproval. Especially when they see the word "overcome" in the writings as well.

Those words "understanding, supportive and helpful" seem to lose their meanings in light of some of the other quotes. Also, the word "burden" is forgotten. Yes, it is quite a burden..

To be afflicted this way is a great burden to a conscientious soul.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1993 Jun 05, Homosexuality, p. 10)

Your stepbrother is probably reading these Writings no different than many others who see these as a judgement on homosexuals, and a justification for others to view and treat homosexuals as 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, inf. class humans who are somehow defective, diseased, dirty. Being gay myself, I can tell you that it is very difficult to read these words and not feel attacked myself. Well, can you blame me? I am very much emotionally involved in the issue, and having experienced such horrible treatment from others it is almost impossible to believe that these are not hateful, prejudiced and discriminating comments.

HOWEVER. What we tend to forget when we read these is the remainder of the entirety of the Baha'i teachings.

I can't rewrite everything here, but here are some good quotes to deepen on,

And among the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh is, that religious, racial, political, economic and patriotic prejudices destroy the edifice of humanity. As long as these prejudices prevail, the world of humanity will not have rest.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 286)

What does this quote have to do with anything? Many believe that homosexuality unravels the fabric of society. In the Baha'i Faith, it is not homosexuality that does that, it is prejudice, which in light of the treatment of homosexuals, you can understand how strongly condemned prejudice is.


To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely against the spirit of Bahá'í Teachings.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1995 Sept 11, Homosexuality)

Again those quote is made again, but look at the context that the Universal House of Justice puts it in...

The purpose of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh is the realization of the organic unity of the entire human race, and Bahá’ís are enjoined to eliminate from their lives all forms of prejudice and to manifest respect towards all. Therefore, to regard those with a homosexual orientation with prejudice or disdain would be against the spirit of the Faith. Furthermore, a Bahá’í is exhorted to be “an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression”, and it would be entirely appropriate for a believer to come to the defense of those whose fundamental rights are being denied or violated.
(The Universal House of Justice, 2011 Jan 3, Homosexuality)

Oh yea, yes, it does say, you can be an advocate for gay rights. What are you waiting for?

In attempting to reconcile what may appear to be conflicting obligations, it is important to understand that the Bahá’í community does not seek to impose its values on others, nor does it pass judgment on others on the basis of its own moral standards. It does not see itself as one among competing social groups and organizations, each vying to establish its particular social agenda. In working for social justice, Bahá’ís must inevitably distinguish
between those dimensions of public issues that are in keeping with the Bahá’í Teachings, which they can actively support, and those that are not, which they would neither promote nor necessarily oppose. In connection with issues of concern to homosexuals, the former would be freedom from discrimination and the latter the opportunity for civil marriage. Such distinctions are unavoidable when addressing any social issue. For example, Bahá’ís actively work for the establishment of world peace but, in the process, do not engage in partisan political activities directed against particular governments.

(The Universal House of Justice, 2011 Jan 3, Homosexuality)

Keep in mind, that with all of this being said, it is clear that we do not oppose gay marriage in the non-Baha'i community. Marriage is not the only way to the full equality of homosexuals anyway. There are issues of job discrimination, disenfranchisement, and the whole 2nd class citizen prejudicial BS that goes on, which Baha'is do in fact ADAMANTLY OPPOSE.

A few more writings you might want to ponder on.

While this one is read a lot, it's important to realize there are no 2nd class citizens.

O CHILDREN OF MEN!
Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory.

(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

It is important to show deeds better than words. We Baha'is can get longwinded about the writings (guilty as charged!), but it's through actions that we can prove that we are against prejudice and discrimination.

The essence of faith is fewness of words and abundance of deeds; he whose words exceed his deeds, know verily his death is better than his life.

(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 156)

Say: Beware, O people of Baha, lest ye walk in the ways of them whose words differ from their deeds. Strive that ye may be enabled to manifest to the peoples of the earth the signs of God, and to mirror forth His commandments. Let your acts be a guide unto all mankind, for the professions of most men, be they high or low, differ from their conduct. It is through your deeds that ye can distinguish yourselves from others. Through them the brightness of your light can be shed upon the whole earth. Happy is the man that heedeth My counsel, and keepeth the precepts prescribed by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 305)


Also, I am not surprised at the lack of substance of the answer you received from your NSA. There are a number of reasons for this inadequacy, both justified and unjustified. We have to remember how infantile, unevolved, imperfect and immature our institutions are, how limited their resources are to deal with such weighty issues, (homosexuality is a big one!), and how their time is basically held captive by the goals of the plans the Universal House of Justice sends out.

At the same time, could they do a better job in addressing such issues? Absolutely! I often wonder how many letters the NSA gets in a day from people who are resigning over the issues surrounding homosexuality. A lot of good it is to talk about entry by troops, when you are bleeding members on a daily basis. It's kind of like trying to fill a barrel of water with a hole in the bottom. At some point, you are going to have plug the hole or you are not going to get anywhere.


My own PERSONAL view, and I say this strongly that it is MY OWN PERSONAL VIEW of being a gay Baha'i for 22 years, I do think that one day the UHJ will make some concessions in regards to gay marriage. No, the law will not be changed, but I do think it will be either temporarily suspended for a certain amount of time, or something else will emerge. I'm not sure what the situation will look like, either it means that gay bahais don't get a bahai wedding ceremony, but their union becomes acceptable, or how it will all be negotiated but I have seen baby-step changes with some of the letters that have come out, such as the ones quoted above in 2011 and 1995. The uncompromising rigidity is for lack of a better description "softening", the UHJ comes out and says prejudice and discrimination against HOMOSEXUALS is wrong, and that it would be "entirely appropriate" for Baha'is to work toward gay rights. The fact that they address the issues of homosexuality head on is a good sign. Again, this is MY OWN PERSONAL VIEW only.

Napkin

How about telling him this little bit of truth: "Although Baha'i is packed with awesome teachings that can make us all better people, this teaching about gays is simply outdated and we don't believe it. Now lets focus on the non-outdated teachings together"

ferrera

Napkin I liked your last comment
Noexalt thank you so much for taking the time to address my question so thoroughly, it was just what I needed to read. Would you mind if I showed my stepbrother your post? You have worded it all much better than I could do, and used some really lovely quotes.
How do you suggest I can be "understanding, supportive and helpful" to him? Are there things that you wish your family/community had done or said to you? He's not actually a Baha'i so I don't think (although I don't know for sure) that he is struggling with aligning his sexuality with the teachings, but I would still like to be supportive.
Thanks again for all helpful responses.

Noexalt

Go ahead and show him, but make sure you are ready to answer more questions. . Get yourself geared up. Those who aren't gay have to show those who are that they are sincere.

Understanding supportive and helpful...If he has a boyfriend, invite them over for dinner, movie, whatever, include them in your lives as much as possible, if they have troubles in his relationship be there for him, if you have questions about homosexuality, ask him, stay humble as you learn more about it it, think about it, be inquisitive, listen to some of the crap he's gone through with the issue, be his rock. Heck, if they go out to gay bars and such, go with them. Take the "learning mode" and things will heal. Now that you have the guidance from the UHJ, see if there is a way you can get involved but go slow, there's a lot out there. A great one would be to help gay youth who have been kicked out of their homes, or are depressed or suicidal. Find something to do when you are ready. This will prove your sincerity to him. Get your whole family involved.

And also take on a fighting spirit. Let your stepbrother know that you are family, and that you will not accept this "Not speaking again" stuff, and no matter how hard he tries that you are going to be there for him whether he likes it or not. This is about family, not about what some people may think.

I like music, so maybe this will get you fired up a little.

Napkin

Please do not show him the quote about burden of homosexuality. I see the future, and your step brother doesn't have any contact with you

Noexalt

Napkin has a point the burden comment could be 50/50. Either he'll see a recognition of the stress we go through, or hell see it as an insult to piece of his identity. Be ready for more discussion, and don't give up no matter what.

ferrera

Noexalt - that made me feel slightly better as my sister and I have done pretty much all of those things, without even thinking about it. I think I'll show him your whole post without taking anything out, he's a highly intelligent lad and has already seen the writings which call it an affliction etc. I'd rather he saw the whole picture as you gave it to me, including your own comment about it being a burden. It's up to him what he makes of it. Wish me luck!

ferrera

By the way - apologies for totally hijacking the thread. In answer to the original post, there are no gay Baha'is in my community (as mentioned previously my community is full of old English ladies!) and so I have no experience with which to answer your questions. However, after this discussion with you, I feel like I would like to bring it up with my community and see what they have to say on the matter. I'm sure that will be a fun night

Ali

Why would a homosexual embrace the Bahai Faith? In other words, why embrace a religion that condemns your sexual orientation? I, a Bahai, would never associate with such individuals. Yes, I am a heterosexist - after all, heterosexuality is the dominant sexual orientation.

Noexalt

naaah, totally worth it in this case.

Fadl

Maybe a homosexual would embrace the faith if he or she recognized Baha'u'llah?? Just a guess.

I think your line of thinking is disturbing because it suggests that someone would only join a faith that conformed to everything they think now and are already. If this were the point to religion, ie pick the one that matches you rather than the one you find to be true, then there would be no point to a manifestation coming because there would be no transformation necessary. Every religion would be like a consumeable good that you choose from a shelf to please yourself rather than a powerful change agent and cause of human transformation.

Ali

You misunderstood my argument. If a person is homosexual and believes that homosexuality is just, then he or she would conclude that the Bahai Faith is unjust for condemning it.

Fadl

I think you underestimate the complexity of people and their judgments.

Noexalt

You get a long answer again...

Your question confuses me a little but let me try to answer it both ways. First off, remember this quote?

It is important to understand that there is a difference between the Bahá'í attitude towards, on the one hand, the condition of homosexuality and those who are affected by it and, on the ether, the practice of homosexual relations by members of the Bahá'í community.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1995 Sept 11, Homosexuality)

So, no the Baha'i Faith does not condemn my sexual orientation. It does condemn my behavior if (when ) I make the decision to engage in sexual activity. Secondly,

The purpose of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh is the realization of the organic unity of the entire human race, and Bahá’ís are enjoined to eliminate from their lives all forms of prejudice and to manifest respect towards all.

Therefore, to regard those with a homosexual orientation with prejudice or disdain would be against the spirit of the Faith. Furthermore, a Bahá’í is exhorted to be “an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression”, and it would be entirely appropriate for a believer to come to the defense of those whose fundamental rights are being denied or violated.
(The Universal House of Justice, 2011 Jan 3, Homosexuality)

Thus and therefore, if other Baha'is are condemning my homosexuality then I must refer them to the letter from the Universal House of Justice, which states that Bahá’í are 'exhorted to be “an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression', and that such prejudice and disdain is entirely against the teachings.

I know all too well the judgemental, puritanical and cultural bias' of many members of the Baha'i community. Baha'u'llah came to put a stop to this as well as many other prejudices. He has come to build an entirely new society built on these principals. I get it. I get it well.

While I have spent much time on this site discussing homosexuality, yes, I have other interests, such as what the World Order of Baha'u'llah/Administrative Order really means, Christianity and Christian History, Obscure areas of the writings that others may not realize, etc.
In light of that of course I realize that the Baha'i Faith is much larger than myself and my issues. I believe in Baha'u'llah because of His teachings, and despite how other Baha'is behave, I know that Baha'u'llah is prescribing differently. When one believes in Baha'u'llah, it gets inside of your very bones.

There is a line in the Tablet of Ahmad:

And be thou so steadfast in My love that thy heart shall not waver, even if the swords of the enemies rain blows upon thee and all the heavens and the earth arise against thee.

(Compilations, Baha'i Prayers, p. 210)

I am human enough to admit that I have wavered from time to time, but even if the "heavens and the earth" (Powerful religious people and common people) arise against me, I am going to remain steadfast. That means, I am not going to stop communicating with people about this issue in terms of prejudice and discrimination. I am going to continue to try to help people like Itena and Ferrera who are having difficulties with these issues, and I will continue to support my comrades like Mereille and AdrianDavila. And I will continue to challenge others who seem to have views about homosexuality that aren't part of the Baha'i teachings.

When God speaks to Baha'u'llah in the Fire Tablet, He says the following.

When the swords flash, go forward! When the shafts fly, press onward! O Thou Sacrifice of the worlds.

Dost Thou wail, or shall I wail? Rather shall I weep at the fewness of Thy champions, O Thou Who hast caused the wailing of the worlds.

(Compilations, Baha'i Prayers, p. 218)

My intention is to be a champion. He's heard my wailing, He's telling me to fight!

Noexalt

Any updates? How is it going with your stepbrother?

reborn

I am gay and was a Baha'i all my life. I was very active. I am now not only inactive, I would have to say I no longer believe in this religion or any religion. The self-hatred one feels growing up gay and Baha'i is impossible to express. There is no doubt as you are growing up Baha'i that you better not be gay. The message comes through loud and clear. So you not only do not admit it to anyone else. You do not admit it to yourself. It is simply a terrifying way to grow up. But the denial cannot be sustained forever. Something has to give. Because living a lie is deadly -- to body and soul. Since the faith does not allow gay people to live as gay people -- you have four choices

1. Follow this law - believe you are abnormal and can therefore never have a sexual relationship. You can marry the opposite sex, but is this fair to the other person? Or you can be alone and never have a partner in life. Not very healthy.

2. Have a gay relationship and lie about it. Keep it hidden. Be in the closet. People who do this are the sickest I have seen. Hypocrisy is deadly and devastating.

3. Have an open gay relationship and lose you Baha'i rights. You are forever ostracized and in a 'lessor' mode (second class) unless you give up your relationship. You can never serve fully and will never really feel welcome in most Bahai communities.

4. Leave the faith and be who you are. This is what I finally did. I cannot begin to explain how liberating this was. To learn to love yourself and another fully. To find an amazing community of diverse people who do not judge you and actually rejoice in your happiness and growth. Yes, we remain spiritual beings outside the faith and we grow spiritually like all humans. We are simply in an environment that allows us to flourish.

It took a decade for me to opt for number 4; up to that point it had been option 1. Options two and three were never even considerations.

I don't think you will find many people in the Baha'i community who 'admit' they are gay. The majority of those who are gay are in category two above. You won't know who they are. Over the years, I have learned who some of them are. I know of a couple people in category one -- not many. And someone posting here said they were in category three and apparently have not yet lost their rights, though they admit they do feel second class.

Let us be clear. The faith is not attracting gay people and will not. And the faith's treatment of gay people born into it or who joined not truly understanding its view towards gays, drives them insane or drives them away -- never to return. Because they learn life is even more awesome outside the faith, in the broader world, than within its narrow confines. The condescending and uninformed level of the discussion I see here is such confirmation of my choice. While you discuss who is or might be gay in your community, we gay folk are long gone to a better life. You drove us out. How could you ever expect gay people, other than the self-hating type, to stick around? Or to be attracted in the first place. The world is rapidly embracing those of us who are gay as full fledged members of the human race. We don't have to hide so much anymore in many cities and places. Why would we choose a religion that forces us to hide and hate ourselves?

There are young people growing up in the faith even now, getting this same self-hate message. They will suffer as I did and face similar choices. They might be YOUR children. And there are millions of very smart, talented gay people who are just the type of people the faith might otherwise want as Baha'is because they are so free of prejudice; so honest and open and giving -- who are turned away from the faith. Why would they join? Why?

If only the Bahais knew how they look to outsiders in discussion strings like this one, they would truly be embarrassed. They are only not embarrassed because they are so insular they have no idea how awful the things they say sound to the growing number of open minded and progressive people outside. Step back and look at who is talking here and what they are saying. All Baha'i discussions on this topic are the same.

Also understand when gay people try to reach out to Baha'is it is because they see the potential of what the faith could be. They care enough to tell you what no one else will bother to tell you. This discussion is ridiculous.

Robertus

My community has around 50 people in it and about 5 are gay, 3 men and 2 women.

The men are very active and the women are more active then me

The guys said they did at first but as long as they've been active within the community they felt that little bit of unease disperse.

They've been out for a since as long as I've been a Baha'i. Which is about 3 years now.

I'm sure they've had a mix, though when I've been around it's been positive.

Of course. Knowing the official position of the UHOJ I was curious on how they and the community felt.

Everyone agreed that it couldn't be helped. That it is not something you choose. And so, even if it is sinful, it's not anything that we should shun or condemn people for.

mytmouse57

I'll take each person as an individual, as they come, and according to the circumstances of our interaction. I tend and strive not to define people by their sexual urges -- or any other bio-physical attribute -- to begin with.

reborn

These are the usual replies gay people get on Baha'i chat sites. Same ole same ole. Your answers are wrote. We've all heard them before. Not just from this religion -- from many -- so gay people everywhere are used to these statements, which mainly accuse of of selfishness, immaturity and focusing only on sex. Again, I ask, look at your own predictable responses here. And look at the Baha'i community. Where are the gay people? Are other people on this site at all bothered by these responses? Anyone?

I'll take snippets from the responses in this reply...which are all quite normal in these sites:

self-absorbed and immature (yes -- all openly gay people are this way)
The Baha'i Faith isn't about following societal standards. (or current science)
It's entirely possible for an opposite-sex marriage to work, if one -- or both -- of the parties has a predisposition to homosexual desires. (I've tried this; works for VERY few)
One hallmark of a mature adult, is being able to take full ownership of one's choices (gay people are mostly immature)
I'm sure, others predisposed to homosexual desires decided to stay in the Baha'i Faith, and are just as happy as you are. (I see them at feast and conferences all the time)
Not everybody hinges everything upon unfettered sexual expression (only gay people are always obsessed with nothing but sex...it's all we care about, and the whole reason we become gay is for that unfettered sexual expression)
Open-mindedness works both ways. (we should be more open-minded about the people in Iran who are persecuting Baha'is and stop publishing how bad they are -- because open mindedness works both ways)
Folks also need to stop expecting that standards must be manipulated to stroke self-esteem (gay people lack self esteem and need constant stroking and they need to grow up)
Yes, I'm sure, many gays and others -- especially in increasingly sexually permissive Western societies -- will be turned off and not join the Baha'i Faith because of our sexual standards -- at least in the short term. But, the Baha'i Faith is taking the long, long-term view. (eventually, there will be no gay people if we just wait long enough and all of this will go away because its all just because of the moral breakdown today and weak moral people, like gay people)
Well, who you are banging (gay people bang anyone anywhere)
All sex, in a way, is "in the closet." (yes straight relationships are kept hush hush and straight people never tell anyone about their partners, or kiss or hold hands in public, or put a picture of their partner in their office, or have public weddings; and sex is nasty and should be hidden)
You're showing your own narrow-mindedness (gay people really are narrow minded because for us, it's only about sex; our relationships, if we can even maintain them, are shallow)

Noexalt

Glad to see my thread was reborn...(thanks to reborn et. al).
Loved the commentary on the same ole same ole.

The more I think about it, the more I also see how the Baha'i Administration, even if it wanted to, couldn't reverse it's reputation on this issue.

I have been doing some more thinking. I have to say, that in terms of priority and emphasis of certain laws and teachings in the Baha'i Faith, since there are clearly some laws and teachings that are being given emphasis and others being given less priority, I have to ask myself, why should this issue be of any importance to anyone? What I mean is, yes, there are some serious issues regarding discrimination going on in the world today, but to worry about what goes on in my bedroom while there are much more serious issues that the Faith's Administration and Community should be concerned about is quite ridiculous.

Seriously, my bedroom activities are really that big of a deal? I think not. I think the Faith's Administration should focus on eliminating prejudice, discrimination, bias, persecution of homosexuals, and leave the sexual activities, gay marriage, voting rights bs alone. Or at least be fair, start sanctioning the heterosexuals who are playing romper room in the community across the board and then OK, but you know as well as I do, the answer to that would be that that would be petty and trivial.. but somehow my activities are next to the end of the world.

Unfortunately, truth be told, the Bahai community and administration has not reached a point where eliminating prejudice has become a stellar capability. I think some of the secular organizations like NAACP, etc do a much better job and can teach the Baha'is a few things.

mytmouse57

Depends upon what you mean by "prejudice." On the whole, it has been my distinct observation over the years that gay rights tends to label as "hate," "prejudice" or "bigotry," anything and everything that does not align with complete approval and affirmation. That's not only lazy, it's also immature.

So, while I find abhorrent such things as calling gay people by disparaging slurs or in any way, shape or form leveling hatred or threats against them -- it would also be refreshing to see gays take full ownership of their own decisions and sexuality, instead of expecting everybody else to conform to affirmation.

It's not my place to treat you poorly, but it's also absolutely not my job to affirm and support a form of sexual expression within my religious faith that runs directly counter to the standards of my faith.

tonyfish58

The thing I see occuring in these threads is more the issue than the individual subject matter.

UNITY

This one word says it all. Abdul'baha has warned us that if we do not have unity then we do not have a Baha'i Faith.

So this is a big word with far reaching implications

UNITY

It is up to us to achieve this. The way to achieve this is to remain loyal to the Covernant of Baha'u'llah and follow thre example of Abdul'Baha.

We have to take our guidance from the Universal House of Justice on all matters. This guideance once given is the infallable guidance of Baha'u'llah Himself.

If our opinions break this unity then we must put them aside and pray for guidence.

Regards Tony

mytmouse57

Either, evidently, much of what I said went over your head, or you're just being obtuse, because you just pounded the crap out of a whole bunch of straw men.

And, again, what I'm seeing here is quite a lot of insisting that others affirm your point of view and desires, or accusations that they are being mean if they don't.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't reflect the attitude of a mature adult.

The Baha'i Faith is quite clear regarding its standards relating to marriage and sexuality. And I, and many others, consider them to be good, solid standards.

Standards that are going to work for everybody? No. Standards to be forced on the unwilling or uninterested? No.

But nor is there any reason to change those standards, to suit the fancy of currently popular ideas, in a society that is already fairly awash in sexual permissiveness.

cyrano2k10

I would disagree with Reborn. The Baha'i faith does attract openly gay people. I am one of them. I've been associating with my local Baha'i community for over 2 years. And I would say at this point I am a Baha'i in my heart. However, at this time, I think it's probably better for me to remain unenrolled.

But I am drawn to the faith not only by the teachings of Baha'u'llah but also by the community. While I don't wear a purple triangle on my sleeve I am not in the closet in within the community. On the contrary, I have discussed the contradictions of the baha'i community on gay issues quite openly with my Baha'i friends, both from a theological and a sociological point of view. And those closest to me know that it is the largest factor holding me back from enrolling. But they have been nothing but supportive and understanding. And many express personal difficulty with the tension this creates within the community and the bad PR it causes outside the community. This kind of communal engagement is what gives me hope. We don't all agree on the answer. But we know that the current situation needs to change. This is much more than you get from most faith communities.

I agree with Noexalt that this issue will eventually be resolved in a way that will relieve the tension. Personally I believe there is room to work theologically when one differentiates between what was said on behalf of the Guardian and what he said himself, among other things. But that is another discussion entirely. Even if the theology never changes the UHJ has the power to legislate in a way that will fully incorporate committed gay couples into the community. But that decision may be a long way off, as there is still much work to do within the community to prepare it to accept such a decision and still maintain the unity that defines the community.

In the meantime I feel it is my responsibility to continue deepening myself spiritually, but also to continue engaging with the community and contributing in the ways that I can. If religion is truly to serve the purpose that Baha'u'llah says it can and be the unifying, life-affirming, civilization-advancing force it has been in the past then it behooves me to work towards that. For me that involves working to re-incorporate GLBT people in the religious life of the community. As painful as it can be to engage with those who view us as "disordered" or somehow defective, things won't change if we just walk away and seal ourselves away in a gay ghetto somewhere. We fight for full inclusion in civil society. It's time for us to start fighting for full inclusion in religious society as well. The techniques are necessarily different. But the importance of the struggle is the same.

cyrano2k10

On a separate note, here are some more direct experiences related to Noexalt's original questions:

In the local community I know of one openly gay 2nd gen bahai. We went to university together and hearing about his experience with the community and his family and how he manages those relationships is what initially gave me hope that this could be a community I could be part of - even with it's imperfections.

I also know an ex-gay Baha'i who is very active in the local community. He's older than me (probably in his late 30's), a convert, and is now married to a woman. And while I may disagree with his personal decisions, I respect them. He's honest with his wife, doesn't claim he's no longer gay, and we have very thought-provoking discussions about how the Baha'i faith has affected us individually and in relation to the wider community. These conversations aren't always comfortable. He is, after all, the person I tried to be growing up as a Jehovah's Witness. And it's difficult sometimes to not take his life example as a rebuke to my own perspective. But we both are serious about the theology and come about our differences honestly and therefore still respect each other.

I also have a close friend who is Baha'i and bisexual. She chose to only date men and is now married. However, because of her personal experience she is quite sensitive to gay issues when I need someone to talk to. She is also quite active in the community and is currently on our LSA. She was so sensitive to my concerns that she personally brought my situation to the assembly and conveyed their response to me. She truly has been invaluable to my investigation into the Faith.

The closest thing I can think of to discrimination I experienced was when I was first starting to attend Baha'i devotionals. I was approached by a guy after the service who asked about my impressions and if I had any questions. I mentioned my problems with their stance on gay marriage. He was of a more conservative bent in his position. But he got my number and said he would arrange a fireside to discuss things further. I never heard back from him. But I would say that is more a cultural discomfort with the issue and perhaps an assumption about whether I really had a place in Baha'i life rather than homophobia. It was discrimination. But it wasn't malicious and I don't hold it against the guy.

The most hurtful things I've experienced have been on Baha'i forums and the excerpts from the Writings on bahai-library.com. Reading some of the stuff written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi has been quite painful at times. But when I compare that to the rest of the Writings and remember the cultural context of the time it's easier to see those texts for what they are rather than what they mean emotionally to me with my particular history. But this has certainly made valuing and engaging with the writings of Shoghi Effendi a challenge for me. But my faith in the love and scientific harmony of the Writings keeps me going back to engage with his writings. Plus there was so much more he wrote about that I can learn from. Whenever my negative emotions get the best of me I remember Abdu'l-Baha's advice on focusing on the 10 positive qualities even if you feel there is 1 negative, and vice versa.