Athanasius

In many publications dealing with the Bahá'í Faith it is stated that the year of 1844 would be the year of the Parousia. Although these exegeses of the Bible are very interesting there is something I do not fully unterstand in the meaning of the year of 1844 to Bahá'í revelation: The Bab's revelation took place in 1844. But it is Bahá'u'lláh and not the Bab who claimed to be the Second coming of Christ. So at first glance it seems to be pretty relevant that there is a strong evidence for the year of 1844 as point of the Parousia; but on the second glance there isn't.... or do I misunderstand something?

Thanks

Athanasius

arthra

Well.. in our view the Bab was the Forerunner Prophet to Baha'u'llah in some ways very much like John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus..

Just as many disciples of John later recognized Jesus as the Messiah so most of the early Babis came to recognbize Baha'u'llah as Him Who God would make manifest.. promised by the Bab.

We also refer to it as the Twin Manifestations of GOd..

Baha'u'llah later revealed that the Maniifestations of God are one..so they are all the return of the previous Manifestation and ergo Prophet Muhamamd, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are the Return of Christ..

But it is true also that there were two independent movements one in Iran/Iraq and one in Europe and America that recognized the same time.. The Millerites and the Shaykhi movements both recognized 1260/1844 as the date of the manifestation of the Promised One..

Clex19

1844 was also the year 'Abdul-Baha was born.

NiyooshaClaudia

Well read Revelation 11. There is spoken about the two witnesses; we see the Báb as the first one. In the islam you have the qa'im who will come to earth to tell people that "christ" will come back. That's why it's important. The revelation of the Báb is the end of an old prophetic era and the beginning of a new era.

BruceDLimber

In his book Apocalypse Unsealed, which you can see in the Books section at:
Bahá'í Library Online
Robert Riggs says the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation are Muhammad and 'Ali.

And Athanasius, you can see much more about 1844 at this site:
www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled

Regards, :-)

Bruce

NiyooshaClaudia

Bruce,

I don't know who Robert Riggs is, but Shoghi Effendi writes in God passes by (dutch version God schrijdt voorbij) page 52 about this Revelation in the context of the Báb revelation. I think that this has more authority than the text of mr Riggs.

Kind regards,

Claudia

BruceDLimber

Shoghi Effendi does of course have more authority than Riggs!

But that said, I see no mention of "witnesses" at all in that area of the book, and Riggs' book was approved by the US National Spiritual Assembly and thus published with their agreement.

So my statement appears to hold.

Peace,

Bruce

Sen McGlinn

Here are the quotes:

Quddus,...whose appearance the Revelation of St. John the Divine anticipated as one of the two "Witnesses" into whom, ere the "second woe is past," the "spirit of life from God" must enter .. (God Passes By, p. 49)

In the name He bore [Husayn Ali ] He combined those of the Imam Husayn, ... and of the Imam Ali, the Commander of the Faithful, the second of the two "witnesses" extolled in that same Book.
(Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 93)

So it appears in the Quranic dispensation, Ali is the second of the two witnesses; in the Babi dispensation, Quddus is the first of the two witnesses.

whine of astonsihment

Not just the year either, since Abdul-Baha was born in Tehran on the same night the Bab declared His mission in Shiraz, which was also the same day the first telegraph message was sent from the other side of the world which read "What hath God wrought", inaugurating a new era in communications on the same day as new religion was born.

I think that's quite a bit of 'synchronicity' my friends. Especially when considered from our current perspective of 'what God hath wrought' since then, in science,technology, and communications, as well as the growth and development of the Baha'i faith.

It even seems as if the two almost enveloped the planet at about the same rate and speed. It's definitely what has made it possible for all of us to meet here today.

Essence of GOD

Good question,
Wasn't it supposed to be one prophet every thousand years?
dose that mean the Bab is not a prophet?
that has been my question.

arthra

Thanks for your post..

I don't think it's every thousand years.. It maybe more or less..

The Bab fulfilled the prophecies in our view of the Return of the Twelfth Imam and of the Mahdi .. The Twelfth Imam was suposed to have "disappeared" around 260 AH and a thousand lunar years later the Bab delcared Hiss mission in 1260 AH..in Shiraz.

bwb

"The Station of the Bab

...It is their firm belief that, no matter how short the duration of His Dispensation, and however brief the period of the operation of His laws, the Bab had been endowed with a potency such as no founder of any of the past religions was, in the providence of the Almighty, allowed to possess. That He was not merely the precursor of the Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, that He was more than a divinely-inspired personage, that His was the station of an independent, self-sufficient Manifestation of God, is abundantly demonstrated by Himself, is affirmed in unmistakable terms by Bahá'u'lláh, and is finally attested by the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Bahá."

(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 61)

bwb

Thief in the Night, by Hand of the Cause of God William Sears, is a wonderful book that answers questions about the fulfillment of Bible prophecies by the Bab and Baha'u'llah, written in the style of an exciting detective story. You can search or read Thief in the Night in Ocean, but within the Ocean directory it seems to be a scrambled or encrypted file, so you have to read it from within Ocean itself. Is there no other place to download a copy of it from the internet? I just searched without success.

Ocean - World Religions Free Research Library

Essence of GOD

thank you for the reponse

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence of GOD Wasn't it supposed to be one prophet every thousand years?

No, the rule of thumb is a new Divine Messenger USUALLY every 500-1,000 years, but this in no way prevents the Bab from being one or Baha'u'llah from following shortly after the Bab!

Pece,

Bruce

Essence of GOD

thank you for the response.
i know i should not question this, for God doth whatever he willeth.
but why is Bab exempt?
is it a sign?

cire perdue

Also, the Bab expounds over and over that He is here to anounce the Promised One of all the ages, that He will be the first to bow down before Him Who is to be Manifest, that He is not worthy to be a ring on His finger. This resonates to John the Baptist as Elijah , and the Bab as John the Baptist. The Bab was the Seal of the Prophets, the End of the Adamic Cycle, and the Prophet-Herald of Baha'u'llah.

cire perdue

Riggs could be right and Shoghi Effendi can be right. As in the Tablet of Ahmad, "and that the one whom He hath sent forth by the name of Ali, was the True One from God...." can be the Bab, and Ali the Imam.

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence of GOD [W]hy is Bab exempt?

It's clearly not a matter of "exemption!": the Bab appeared a bit over a millenium after Muhammad (the preeious Divine Messenger).

And in doing so, He fulfulled many, many prophecies about the year 1844 CE (on the Christian calendar) and 1260 AH (on the Muslim calendar), these two years in fact overlapping each other!

You can read more details about this at:

www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled

and I can provide the material below:

(The quotes that follow are slightly modified to improve readability. I have omitted footnotes, or integrated their citations into the text.)

(begin quoted material) ---------------

[I]n the scriptures, each "prophetic day" equals a year:

Ezekiel 4
6 I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Numbers 14
34 After the number of the days in which ye searched
the land, [even] forty days, each day for a year,
shall ye bear your iniquities, [even] forty years,
and ye shall know my breach of promise.

Genesis 29
27 Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also
for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet
seven other years.
28 And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he
gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.

The Jews had Sabbatical years (Leviticus XXV. 8) by which
their years were divided into weeks of years..., each
week containing seven years. Adam Clarke

Count off seven sabbaths of years--seven times seven
years--so that the seven sabbaths of years amount to
a period of forty-nine years.
Leviticus 25:5 NIV

Dr. Gleason Archer in The Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties writes:

The word for week is "sabu," which is derived from
"seba," the word for "seven"... There is no doubt
that in this case we are presented with seventy
sevens of years rather than days...

William Biederwolf in The Second Coming Bible Commentary writes:

It is conceded by all [commentators] that these are
weeks of years... [brackets in the original]

In translating the preceding prophecy from Daniel, The Amplified Bible actually adds the word years to the verse, but in brackets:

Know therefore and understand that from the going
forth of the commandment to restore and to build
Jerusalem until [the coming of] the anointed one, a
prince, shall be seven weeks [of years], and
sixty-two weeks [of years].
Daniel 9:25 AB
(end quoted material)-----------------

Thus, in prophecy, a "day" means a year. Similarly, a "time" refers to a year of "days," or 360 years. (A month is treated as having 30 days and a year, 360.)

OK. So much for the preliminaries. Now, let's see how Biblical prophecies point to the year 1844 C.E..

The starting point for the prophecies in question is 457 B.C., which is the date of the third decree to rebuild Jerusalem. This is made clear by the fact that it matches Daniel's prophecies of 69 and 70 weeks, which point to to the time of Christ's ministry and crucifixion (i.e., 483 years and 490 years after 457 B.C., with the intervening seven years from the 69th to the 70th "week" halved to 3 1/2 years--the time of Christ's ministry--as stated in Daniel). Christians may already be familiar with this.

This is from I Shall Come Again, by H. Motlagh:

(begin quoted material) ---------------

Prophecies Pointing to 1844 or 1260

The following is a list of prophecies designating the year 1844 or 1260 as the time of the advent of the Redeemer of our age.
[These use the same starting point as the prophecies of Jesus I described above, and operate in the same way (a "day" being a year, and a "time" being 360 years).]
As mentioned, 1844 and 1260 refer to the same year, because 1844 of the Christian calendar corresponds to 1260 of the Muslim calendar.
From the Old Testament - 1844 A.D.

Moses' prophecy of seven times Leviticus 26:18, 23, 24, 28
Daniel's vision of 2300 days Daniel 8:14
Daniel's vision pointing to the Daniel 12:7
completion of the scattering of the
holy people, fulfilled by the Edict
of Toleration


From the Old Testament - 1260 A.H.

Daniel's vision of three and a half times Daniel 7:25
Daniel's vision of three and a half times Daniel 12:7


From the New Testament - 1844 A.D.

Christ's confirmation of 2300 days Matthew 24:15
Christ's words on the termination Luke 21:24
of the times of the Gentiles,
fulfilled by the Edict of Toleration
John's vision of the four angels Revelation 9:14-15
bound at the Euphrates


From the New Testament - 1260 A.H.

Peter's prediction of the length of the II Peter 3:8
Last Day
John's vision of 42 months Revelation 11:2
John's vision of 1260 days Revelation 11:3
John's vision of three days and a half Revelation 11:9
John's vision of three days and a half Revelation 11:11
John's vision of 1260 days Revelation 12:6
John's vision of three and a half times Revelation 12:14
John's vision of 42 months Revelation 13:5

From Zoroastrian and American Indian Prophecies

Zoroaster's prophecy pointing to Hushidar Glad Tidings of Sacred Scriptures, p. 94
Zoroaster's prophecy of 1260 years Ibid., p. 61
from the Arabian Faith
The American Indian Prophecies Four Remarkable Indian Prophecies, p
designating the earliest time of the coming
of the Promised One

Islamic Prophecies Pointing to 1260

The prophecy of the numerical Qur'an 32:4
value of _ghars_
The prophecy giving the last two figures Glad Tidings of Sacred Scriptures, p. 85
figures of the date

[four others omitted]
(end quoted material)-----------------
Quotes are from I Shall Come Again, pp. 358-360,
Global Perspective Press (800-949-1863).

There are more prophecies that point to other significant events in the Baha'i Era, but I'll refer you to the book for these.

Many regards, :-)

Bruce

Lunitik

I think calling The Bab the Seal of the Prophets is quite dangerous with respect to our Muslim friends.

I have often pondered the true nature of the Bab myself, reading about some of the things he set as Law, I cannot help question his purity. I prefer to remember that this was simply evidence that a new set of Laws can replace those of Islam, and to note that he never intended his teachings to become widespread. I have chosen not to question this further based on these grounds, although his words do appear to place him far below the station of a Manifestation.

In my own personal opinion, his station was quite similar to that of Joseph Smith, in that he tried to prepare people for the coming of Baha'u'llah. Smith accurately predicted the year the Bab would tell of He whom God shall make Manifest, and indeed, he even accurately predicted the year Baha'u'llah would announce his Cause. It is a shame, however, that despite this, his followers have failed to understand the realization of his prophecy. I don't think this devalues the Bab's station, this is simply my understanding.

cire perdue

I was in error in referring to the Bab as the Seal of the Prophets, that was Muhammed. Baha'is do not view Joseph Smith as a Prophet. I would say he was a visionary. The Bab's station is the same as Baha'u'llah. All the Manifestations of God are equal in station, however Their message varies according to the capacity of mankind to receive it, but They are all the Holy Spirit in human form. The Bab's Writings are very difficult to understand. According to Nader Saiedi, author of GATE OF THE HEART, one cannot take any of those Writings out of context without a great deal of confusion. Saiedi says that only by considering ALL of the Bab's Writings in context will the meanings become more clear. One example I can recount is that ALL the Bab's laws were subject to the approval of He Who will be manifested before being applicable. Interestingly Babi's who did not become Baha'is attempted to follow and enforce some of these laws literally such as buring all books that were not Babi. Baha'u'llah retained many laws of the Bab. GATE OF THE HEART is the best reference yet for the westerner who wants to know more about the Bab. Before reading this book I had suspended any opinion about the Bab's Revelation for obviously not having enough understanding, but not doubting the Bab's station. I can now say I understand more, but undoubtedly will not ever comprehend a great deal about that Revelation.

Lunitik

As I said, I do not question his place as a Manifestation, and sorry for any confusion if I seemed to say Joseph Smith was one - that was not my intent. A lot of the things about the Bab simply confuse me, and in part, I am almost thankful his message is minimized to some degree. He seemed to me to be quite a radical, and not someone I would willingly follow. I am thankful that Baha'u'llah did not adopt a lot of Babi Law, based on what I have read.

That being said, I will try to locate and read this book if I remember once I have worked my way through more of Baha'u'llahs word.