Some Personal Road Blocks to me becoming Baha'i

Scott · 06-02-2011, 08:27 AM

I have had an extremely screwed up and troubled life, resulting from a combination of things: severe family disfunction and religious fundamentalism/hypocrisy, neglect, abuse, exclusion, bullying, addictions, etc, which lead to some really bad choices and really bad friendships and relationships. Basically, I have no sense of connection, loyalty, meaning, or any positive association with my family or extended family. I have only associate severe injustice and ignorance with my family. I am not even sure if someone can actually understand what it is like to look at life from a standpoint of being completely disconnected from one's family or family past unless they experience it. I don't associate unity, love, truth, spiritual teaching and guidence with my family, only ignorant myopic narcissism, neglect, hypocrisy, and injustice, as I have said.

I truly envy people who have a sense of connection, love, fondness, and trust in family to some degree (I know no family is perfect).

Another complicating matter is that my wife and I cannot have children, nor can we adopt due to my wife's health condition. I get on well with my wife's biological family, which is not without it's problems. But there is genuine love and a certain degree of health in it. Her parent love me dearly and tell us all the time that they are grateful to God for letting me be a part of their family. It is making me well up and tearful just writing this. However, due to my own experience of disconnectedness not just from family, but from life and God, I am not able to really ever feel a part of her family, or a part of anything else in life.

I have attempted and invited my family to engage in a process of reconciliation which I have translated into religous principles familiar to them and their beliefs. None of them have ever attempted to participate.

I truly cannot imagine that I will ever be able to be reconciled with my family. They seem to have no desire to live in truth, only denial, hypocrisy, and narcissism.

Is there a place for someon in the Baha'i Faith with these kinds of issues and circumstances? I mean, honestly. First of all, how accepted is a childless man with no chance of having children or adoption likely to be? Baha'is may have all kinds of values and beliefs, but they are human. I just anticipate a lot of judgement and misunderstanding of my background and situation.

These things have pained me for years in terms of wanting desparately to become a Baha'i yet, not really ever believing that I could make the leaps of faith required as far as my background and experience, nor being very confident that I would be truly accepted in the Baha'i community.

I am very damaged and scarred. I have overcome much and have continued to independently seek the truth inspite of all the turmoil, pain, and obstacles in my life.

I suppose what I am really asking is, would the Baha'i Faith or any faith want someone like me, who is so damaged, sceptical, and the living proof of the damage that family, community, society, dysfunctional religion, and self can do?

Anoother road block is why would a loving compassionate all knowing God allow such aggregious injustice and evil to happen in the lives of soooooo many people throughout conceiveable time? Why would I trust a parental God that allowed the things that happened to me happen? I mean, if a human parent allowed such things to happen to his or her children, the children would be taken away from the parents (well, hopefully). I mean, if I found out that someone that I was supposed to trust had allow horrible things to happen to me, would or should I trust that person?

I have serious distrust and anger toward God for these things. I am seriously misgivings about anything to do with religion. Yet I desparately still wish to somehow overcome all this and enter into and have a connection to God and to the Baha'i Faith. It actually drives me round in cycles and makes me a bit crazy.

It occured to me at somepoint I should just ask some Baha'is about all these things, instead of being alone with them, and experssing anger to God about them.

Honestly, people, please - don't cliche or use any theological double talk. I can see that coming a mile away and have not respect for religous mental gymnastics or unthinking assumptions. Please, don't even bother responding if you are just going to talk a load of rubbish which will only show your inexperience or lack of insight. I truly have not patience such things. I have had enough of that in life form a lot of other ignorant people. I am hope that there truly is something different about Baha'is and their insights and behaviour. I guess we will find out.

If there is a place for me in the Baha'i Faith then say so, and explain what I would need to do to begin a process of getting there - I don't mean just "declaring", I mean considering all the blockages, obstacles, my background ,etc - what will I need to do in terms of the Path. If there is not a place for someone like me, also please explain, constructively and helpfully.

Also, don't try to "love bomb" me or try to pretend to be all loving and inclusive, liberal, and egalitarian to try to entice me. I am way beyond the manipulations of religion. I can also see these things coming a mile away, so don't bother. Unless you are secure, sincere, and confident to the core of your being about your own spiritual condition and the Truth of Baha'i Faith in all it's subtle and powerful ways, do not bother responding to this post.

I truly hope you disprove many of my expectations about religiously oriented people. I truly do.

(apologies for typos and mispells in advance. I don't have the time or energy to edit at the moment.)

Nuck81 · 06-02-2011, 08:44 AM

My mom was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in early 2008. She lost both her breasts in a bilateral mastectomy and then after healing from that underwent Chemotherapy. The week after Mom lost her hair, my Dad was killed in a bicycle accident. He was riding his bike and a woman let her dog chase the Bikers down a hill as they went by, my dad hit dog, suffered head injuries (he was wearing a helmet) and died.

I blamed God. How could a God let my mother suffer through breast cancer, and then the week after she loses her hair, let my dad die on a bicycle at a time when my mom needed him most. It shattered my Faith, and I became agnostic for about three years.

Christianity held no answers for me. And the more people said "God works in mysterious ways" "There is a reason for everything" and "I'll be praying for you" the more it pissed me off.

I'm still bitter spiritually in a lot of ways, but when I discovered Baha'i Faith a little over a month ago, I began to feel better. I always dreamed about my dad after he died, almost nightly. They are dreams where I know he is dead, and we just hang around and chat about the things going on. In a way he has become my best friend, it's weird how the mind can create dreams, and compensations for you to deal with a loss and a void.

Anyway, the Baha'i Faith gave me comfort and gave me spiritual strength. I don't know why. It just seemed right as soon as I started reading about the Faith. I still haven't declared though, partly because I'm still bitter, mostly because I want to make sure i'm sincere in what I feel and I'm not just going through a "honeymoon" with The Faith. It can be hard, because there are not a lot of Baha'is around, but this forum has become a good place for fellowship for me.

I really hope you find what you are looking for.

Nuck

Yeshua · 06-02-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuck81

My mom was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in early 2008. She lost both her breasts in a bilateral mastectomy and then after healing from that underwent Chemotherapy. The week after Mom lost her hair, my Dad was killed in a bicycle accident. He was riding his bike and a woman let her dog chase the Bikers down a hill as they went by, my dad hit dog, suffered head injuries (he was wearing a helmet) and died.

I blamed God. How could a God let my mother suffer through breast cancer, and then the week after she loses her hair, let my dad die on a bicycle at a time when my mom needed him most. It shattered my Faith, and I became agnostic for about three years.

Christianity held no answers for me. And the more people said "God works in mysterious ways" "There is a reason for everything" and "I'll be praying for you" the more it pissed me off.

I'm still bitter spiritually in a lot of ways, but when I discovered Baha'i Faith a little over a month ago, I began to feel better. I always dreamed about my dad after he died, almost nightly. They are dreams where I know he is dead, and we just hang around and chat about the things going on. In a way he has become my best friend, it's weird how the mind can create dreams, and compensations for you to deal with a loss and a void.

Anyway, the Baha'i Faith gave me comfort and gave me spiritual strength. I don't know why. It just seemed right as soon as I started reading about the Faith. I still haven't declared though, partly because I'm still bitter, mostly because I want to make sure i'm sincere in what I feel and I'm not just going through a "honeymoon" with The Faith. It can be hard, because there are not a lot of Baha'is around, but this forum has become a good place for fellowship for me.

I really hope you find what you are looking for.

Nuck

OMG Nuck I am so sorry!!!

Your story really touched me and I am so deeply agrieved for your situation.

God Bless you dear brother and may God be with you at this dark period in your life

I really hope that the Baha'i Faith is a true consolation for you. I pray that it is the salvation that you are seeking.

You have certainly had a most trying time in your life over the past couple of years and by God you deserve to find some spiritual happiness and inner peace.

Please do not give up hope. Despite all the tragedy and grief you have suffered, God is still there for you, he has not deserted you.

The feelings that you are experiencing...the bitterness, the feeling of having been forsaken by God...they remind me very much of Jesus Christ on the cross. "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?"...if even he can feel like that, then it allows us to understand that such feelings are natural.

You have entered what many would call a "Dark Night of the Soul", but the darkness of that period in your life is an illusion. It conceals a future and a present moment that is bright and filled with promise.

The term "dark night (of the soul)" is used in Christianity for a spiritual crisis in a journey towards union with God, like that described by Saint John of the Cross. The individual may feel as though God has suddenly abandoned them or that his or her prayer life has collapsed.

But please do not lose hope. "Dark night of the soul" sounds like a threatening and much to be avoided experience. Yet perhaps a quarter of the seekers on the road to higher consciousness will pass through the dark night. In fact, they may pass through several until they experience the profound joy of their true nature.

I pray that the Baha'i Faith is the morning star that will set upon your life and bring you out of this dark night and into the light of life...

As Baha'u'llah said:

“Out of wrath, the guard had led him who was athirst in love's desert to the sea of his loved one, and lit up the dark night of absence with the light of reunion. He had driven one who was afar, into the garden of nearness, had guided an ailing soul to the heart's physician” – Baha’u’llah

cire perdue · 06-02-2011, 09:16 AM

WHEWEEEE, I am glad you are talking, b/c you are still being your worst enemy which by your tone is not news to you. By your criteria I can't be a Baha'i for more reasons than you. I have no children, did not have a successful marriage, can't keep a job, and will go to Al Anon for the rest of my life. My parents were alcoholics though were not as bad as some, the effects of their raising me have and still are a burden. I became a Baha'i in 1973 after meeting the person in a gay bar who was a Baha'i then and later withdrew to be gay who could answer my questions then. I struggled with that issue, accepting the Baha'i teachings on that issue as a confirmation of the Faith.

Having been in 12 step programs, having counseling, and a degree in it that I don't use I am aware that people project onto God what their parents were like. It is not consciously done. However problems with God as an authority figure are very common. The principles of the Faith have always guided my path for improvement. I have used these values in all my efforts as the standard.

I highly recommend Al Anon to someone with family problems even if not alcohol. If there was an alcoholic grandparent that counts as well, but they do not "kick" people out who have no alcoholism in the family. I know people who could go, but getting people to work on painful issues is very hard. Baha'is I know would rather keep everything intellectual rather than face feelings. However Al Anon teaches us we can't change others, but we can and are responsible for how we feel, react, say, and do and ultimately choose how we act rather than react. A group is important because we are no longer alone. Not reaching out keeps us the same way. Not getting help keeps one stuck. It does not need to be a shrink, but self help groups can be incredible. I fired my shrink and get more from Al Anon.

I say accept your family does not want to change, and you take care of you. The Faith is not stopping you from being in it, you are. Bad things do happen, we have free will. You probably already know that argument. I won't insult your abilities which are good ones, it appears.

There is a place with us if you want to take a step to learn personal faith, to learn to preserve unity, this Faith is a process, not a destination so to speak. Baha'is are responsible for themselves, others are not going to get into your business unless you are flagrantly breaking Baha'i laws. Then you will be treated with the care of a loving parent and directed and advised and given time to correct behavior. We are not rule bound.

There are some incredible Baha'is that did not have our disadvantages. That's okay too. However there are unhealthy people in this Faith. The ones I have known have been in denial and sought power and ran things. It took decades, but they finally disappeared. You in no way resemble that kind of person. Those who want to grow become more lovable, not more powerful.

Though people perceive me as gay which hurts so very much despite all I have done to recover, I have received only love and support. I don't make this issue known. I have 22 years of solid recovery. I would have remarried, but personality development and problems also go along with being homosexual, it is not just a sexual issue. I was willing to give up giving in to the strongest urge I can think of other than drug addiction. I have not found a reason to regret it or think otherwise.

You are obviously intelligent and are only limited by you, but if you become a Baha'i I think it will continue to challenge you to grow. It seems you can't seem not to try to do that, you won't put the Faith away, you continue to come toward it, fearfully, but it is beyond you, but you reach. The best reason to be a Baha'i is because your heart tells you, and to me that would seem to be the case. You will be the person who sees the futility of arguments and see the spirit of these Words. As someone told me better than i had said it those who are broken can see the light through the cracks.

Currently I am fighting shame and guilt with depression over failures and have not been doing well. I have gotten a bit better by looking at this, but have help from a sister who I was not speaking to in '98 when our mother died. She and husband are nothing short of amazed at how I have changed, and she is a better mother than I had. I now feel love for her that I had never experienced, there are things I will not say now, because they would hurt her. She drinks, could be an alcoholic, but it's no longer any of my business and now there is love. (I don't think she is an alcoholic, but I let that get in the way, badly)

I am blessed and I am special, and i bet I am making sense to you, but only because I have worked on me and because I am a Baha'i. This is all subjective, but it is the most important thing to me. I wish for you to be able to talk this way as well, to be as clear as you can be and to have understanding. I think this Faith granted me that. It is your God give right to choose.
Cire Perdue (lost wax en francais, the model which is obliterated by extreme heat leaving a perfect negative impression to be replaced by metal, sometimes gold)

Nuck81 · 06-02-2011, 09:52 AM

Yeshua- Thanks for the kind words. It was a tough time, especially 2008 and 2009, but time heals all wounds to an extent. Not wanting to hijack Scott's thread anymore, I'll just say "God Bless You!!"

cire perdue · 06-02-2011, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuck81

My mom was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in early 2008. She lost both her breasts in a bilateral mastectomy and then after healing from that underwent Chemotherapy. The week after Mom lost her hair, my Dad was killed in a bicycle accident. He was riding his bike and a woman let her dog chase the Bikers down a hill as they went by, my dad hit dog, suffered head injuries (he was wearing a helmet) and died.

I blamed God. How could a God let my mother suffer through breast cancer, and then the week after she loses her hair, let my dad die on a bicycle at a time when my mom needed him most. It shattered my Faith, and I became agnostic for about three years.

Christianity held no answers for me. And the more people said "God works in mysterious ways" "There is a reason for everything" and "I'll be praying for you" the more it pissed me off.

I'm still bitter spiritually in a lot of ways, but when I discovered Baha'i Faith a little over a month ago, I began to feel better. I always dreamed about my dad after he died, almost nightly. They are dreams where I know he is dead, and we just hang around and chat about the things going on. In a way he has become my best friend, it's weird how the mind can create dreams, and compensations for you to deal with a loss and a void.

Anyway, the Baha'i Faith gave me comfort and gave me spiritual strength. I don't know why. It just seemed right as soon as I started reading about the Faith. I still haven't declared though, partly because I'm still bitter, mostly because I want to make sure i'm sincere in what I feel and I'm not just going through a "honeymoon" with The Faith. It can be hard, because there are not a lot of Baha'is around, but this forum has become a good place for fellowship for me.

I really hope you find what you are looking for.

Nuck

I really believe in dreams. I think your dreams are a personal miracle. If you gave up faith and then worked back to it, you have made a major accomplishment in life. You have struggled and developed spiritual strength. I have great respect for that. It gave you spiritual muscles. You will accomplish more in this life because of that. You may not be Bill Gates, but to be a good father, a Baha'i, and make a living is no small accomplishment in this day. Was your father a Baha'i, your mother? Are you a Baha'i on your own? IF you weren't a Baha'i would you have made this kind of progress? Do you think of it as progress?

Do you realize you already think for yourself and can make decisions? Gee how hard we guys are on ourselves. SHEEEEESHHHH, oh, me too, terribly, awfully hard on me. My hat is off to you, bud!

Nuck81 · 06-02-2011, 12:16 PM

cire perdue- I've always been a weird dreamer. I'm one of those that can lucid dream very easily as well. Have been able to since I was a kid. I've also been able to remember and recall my dreams easily as well.

No Baha'is in the family. I had never even heard of Baha'i Faith till last year, and just started reading about it about two months ago. My family wasn't particularly religious growing up, although I had Aunts and Uncles that were.

I haven't officially declared myself as a Baha'i although I have started to think of myself as one. I don't know if I would say I have progressed as much, as this is the outcome of my journey of life at this moment. I'm lucky and glad I stumbled upon the Baha'i Faith and the Words of Baha'u'llah, I will tell you that.

Thanks so much for the kind words and encouragement!! They are always needed.

Nuck

LordOfGoblins · 06-03-2011, 01:45 AM

Hello Scott.
I am not sure I can offer any helpful advice. But I can say that life is not easy for many people. Why would God give hardships to children that he loves. I am still trying to work this out. In Bahai we are taught troubles come upon us for our growth. During the times of trouble things are very unpleasant. Its not until later we can see the wisdom in it.
It is difficult considering God as a 'loving parent'. I think this notion has some problems with it. God is indeed very much like a God in my experience. He lords over his servents. He raises them up casts them down slays some enriches others. What recourse have we? The best we can do is try to live a pious life for the short time that we are in this world and hope that our end is a good one. I have probably not given you any good advice here if so I am sorry.
All the best in your future endeavours.

BruceDLimber · 06-03-2011, 05:18 AM

Scott and Nuck, hi!

I want of you to be aware that both of you have my deepest sympathy and prayers! I understand life hasn't been easy for you, and hope you're now discovering a better, more positive and loving path for yourselves!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott

I suppose what I am really asking is, would the Baha'i Faith or any faith want someone like me, who is so damaged, sceptical, and the living proof of the damage that family, community, society, dysfunctional religion, and self can do?

The Baha'i Faith endeavors to welcome everyone into its fold, no matter how damaged or traumatized an inividual may be!

While we don't claim to be able to perform miracles (some of us have our own problems to overcome, too), I'm sure you'll find the Baha'is to be a warm and loving community that will welcome you and not rush to judge or in any way condemn you!

Quote:

Anoother road block is why would a loving compassionate all knowing God allow such aggregious injustice and evil to happen in the lives of soooooo many people throughout conceiveable time?

I would suggest (just me speaking, not any sort of official Baha'i interpretation) that there are three primary reasons for this:

Some difficulties are indeed God testing us. Various scriptures state:

"Do men think when they say, 'We believe,' they will be let alone and not put to proof?"

and

"God verily will sift them and test them!"
Some are simply random events, such as earthquakes and tornados.
But MOST are our own doing (or the doing of family members and acquaintances) such that WE BRING ON OUR OWN DIFFICULTIES through the bad choices and inappropriate acts we ourselves commit!

So before we rail against God for negative events, we need to be very certain that they're not, for example, anything for which we ourselves are to blame.

In any case, please let me encourage you both to be in touch with the Baha'is and get to know them! I'm confident you'll meet some wonderful people in the Faith, and Baha'i communities often have various public meetings including devotionals and study classes at which you'd be most welcome.

And fear not: no one should be putting any pressure on you; you can simply attend and interact with the various Baha'is as you like whether you tltimately decide to become a Baha'i or not.

Finally, please note that further questions are most welcome: we LOVE 'em! :-)

I wish you good hunting, and all the best!

Bruce

Pollwr · 06-03-2011, 08:14 AM

Scott,

The Bahá'í Faith is for all people. If it were not then I would be out. I think that is one of the underlying principles. If you are to look at the life of Abdul-Bahá you will see that is how he lived.

Any Bahá'í community is made of individuals who came to the Faith different ways. I hope that you will find the acceptance and love we all deserve but if you don't it may weill be about the limitations and lack of understanding of others rather than yours.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

Lunitik · 06-03-2011, 01:16 PM

Scott, you seem to be looking outside yourself for healing, are you fearful of taking control of yourself? Why do you look at all these outward influences as causes for your own outlook? They did not cause you to look at the world a certain way, you began to look at the world this way and have justified it by the way they treated you. To truly connect with the world, you must first connect with yourself. To truly be loved, you must first love yourself. Stop punishing yourself for your past, let go of it and just let the present of now happen. Do not consider greatly the future either, as it is not here yet and it rarely complies with our desires. Just practice being content and happy right now! Give to others as they need, do for others when you are able and stop concentrating on yourself constantly. If you can feel good about what you do for others - not because they thank you for it but simply because you did it - you will begin to see how you are connected with the world. You will no longer focus so much on your own issues, and thus they will gradually simply disappear from you as an influence. Once you are ok with yourself again, I think you will find it much more effective trying to reconcile. You will no longer have an undertone of hurt so they will not take offense and become defensive or unresponsive to your attempts to reach out. It cannot be about making them feel bad or attempting to receive some sign of remorse from them, you must reach out and show genuine love for them - this probably seems difficult right now, but it is because you do not currently love yourself, you have no love to give because you do not currently appear to cultivate it.

As for reaching out to Baha'is, I think you will find many helpful with balancing your current outlook and I do not feel you will experience much judgement for your past. You will also note that Baha'u'llah has taught we should not confess our sins to each other, so do not feel obligated to share your past if it is uncomfortable. In my experience, Baha'is will take great pains to assist those they can help, so I think you are going in the right direction at this point in your life!

Good luck

Lunitik · 06-03-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Anoother road block is why would a loving compassionate all knowing God allow such aggregious injustice and evil to happen in the lives of soooooo many people throughout conceiveable time?

Scott, if life was entirely clean sailing, why would anyone turn their focus to God? Various scriptures state that God desires us to find him, but we must first feel we need him to even begin the journey. This might not feel justified, and I find the Buddhas take on this rather humorous, but this will be how most faiths perceive such things. Most will probably not appreciate this link here, but I think it explains quite well how we are put onto the spiritual path:

Seeker on the path

arthra · 06-03-2011, 11:21 PM

Scott wrote:

Anoother road block is why would a loving compassionate all knowing God allow such aggregious injustice and evil to happen in the lives of soooooo many people throughout conceiveable time? Why would I trust a parental God that allowed the things that happened to me happen?

My reply:

If your study the principles of the Baha'i Faith you'll come to understand I think that humans have more responsibility than they do in previous dispensations.. So people can screw things up for others pretty bad and are responsible.. God allows us freedom to deny Him and screw things up!

The tendency in the past has been to blame the devil or God which ever..when we all share in the responsibility for what happens!

Scott wrote:

Is there a place for someon in the Baha'i Faith with these kinds of issues and circumstances? I mean, honestly. First of all, how accepted is a childless man with no chance of having children or adoption likely to be? Baha'is may have all kinds of values and beliefs, but they are human. I just anticipate a lot of judgement and misunderstanding of my background and situation.

My reply:

Years ago my brother-in-law was a drug addict and in and out of jail .. His family had pretty much given up on him..then he declared his faith in Baha'u'llah.. He stopped abusing drugs.. began working and entered graduate school. Today he's an archivist and respected in his field and has a stable family life...

I've met seriously disturbed people who became Baha'is and it's really stabilized their lives!

blessings · 06-04-2011, 10:35 AM

Dear all,
There is a point in our suffering, when it gets so bad, so deep, that intuitively we sense that we have approached a line where we either say 'enough', or we turn our backs on life. There are many ways to stop living. But to choose to live takes tremendous courage and energy. I think those of us who have stood with our toes hanging over 'the edge' and, for whatever our reasons, choose to step back......can relate to the following words:

"We have come to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore our sanity and bring meaning to our survival from suffering and trauma. We believe that we have survived for a purpose. Even though we often doubt that survival was better than dying, we seek meaning in our lives in order to overcome our despair. We want to be free from the nagging experiences of grief, guilt, and rage. And we want life to become a privilege rather than a burden."
(taken from pg. 161 from the book 'Suffering & Spiritual Growth, calamities & providence" by Ebrahim Amanat, MD. )

There is a 12 step program offered in the book specifically designed for those suffering trauma-related distress. Step 3 is choosing trust over shame and doubt: Burdened with mistrust, shame and doubt, we made a decision to seek the help of God in order to learn to trust.

Step 4 is taking a self-inventory and developing self-knowledge: We admit to ourselves, to God and to other fellow humans what we know about ourselves and ask for help in accepting our positive qualities while we change our negative qualities.

'The mind and spirit of man advance when he is tried by suffering. The more the ground is ploughed the better the seed will grow, the better the harvest will be. Just as the plough furrows the earth deeply, purifying it of weeds and thistles, so suffering and tribulation free man from the petty affairs of this worldly life until he arrives at a state of complete detachment. His attitude in this world will be that of divine happiness. Man is, so to speak, unripe: the heat of the fire of suffering will mature him. Look back to the times past and you will find that the greatest men have suffered most.'
'Abdu'l-Baha.'

'These passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind. Lve and knowledge, so far as they were possible, led upwards towards the heavens. But always pity brought me back to earth.'
Bertrand Russell

At one time, the words (above) of Abdu'l-Baha' would have incensed me, so blinded was I by my pain. Now I bow my head in gratitude for both my path and his wisdom. These words have become my mantra: 'I have come to believe that a power greater than myself can restore my sanity and bring meaning ...' Without this faith, this hope.... I could not keep breathing. But I have been practicing purposefully living for many years and I can say I more often feel joy then unhappiness and rarely, if ever, touch despair anymore.
And the words of Bertrand Russell - little did I know, at the time, that the quiet little voice inside that pulled me back from the brink and kept me safe by always, always pulling my attention away from myself and, instead, noticing others and their suffering, their needs, would be the same voice that led me, ever so gently, to the Bahai' Faith. I'm a brand new Bahai'. And I've only just stumbled across this book: ' Suffering & Spiritual Growth,' by Ebrahim Amanat, MD, but I can attest to its reinforcing influence on the choice not only to live, but live well.

Blessings to all

Scott · 06-07-2011, 02:22 AM

Thank you all for your mindful, thoughful, and carefully considered replies. I am glad that my independent search and investigation of Truth has brought me here.

Your replies have surprised, inspired, and enlightened me. You have acted in love and truth. Perhaps for the first time I have received it thus from the religiously or spiritually enclined. My response has also surprised me. I have been receptive as never before.

My life, experience, and search have brought me to the steps of Reality-As-It-Is. It has been a painful journey which will continue. I have indeed seen the deep and profound truth of detachment, and the doorway of the present moment. So much has been painfully burned from me, so much torn off, and some willingly left aside in my journey.

After comming among you, I have a sense that I can begin to make whatever ascent or descent those steps have in store.

Those who have allowed truth and sincerity speak through them, I thank you from the depth of my being.

Alláh-u-Abhá

Fadl · 06-24-2011, 02:06 PM

Dear Scott,

You posted this long ago, but I am new to this forum, and wanted to respond to you, because I was very moved by your words and pray things will soon be better for you.

I think it is very natural for us to feel we are unworthy of being Baha'is, and it is right for us to be aware of our own short comings in order to work on them. But the truth is, the more sick and messed up we are, the more we need to be in this faith. The Faith is for everyone, and it brings a healing message for humanity, but Baha'u'llah has called himself the "Divine Physician." If you think about that, this means that those of us who are far from perfection and good health, really need to be here the most. It is good to see the Physician when one is well, and practice preventative medicine and healthy living. But when one is sick, seeing the physician can mean a matter of life and death.

Please don't wait to be an angel before entering the ark of salvation, and do feel welcome here--warts and all!

06-02-2011, 08:27 AM	#1
Scott Junior Member Joined: Jun 2011 From: Planet Earth Posts: 6	Some Personal Road Blocks to me becoming Baha'i I have had an extremely screwed up and troubled life, resulting from a combination of things: severe family disfunction and religious fundamentalism/hypocrisy, neglect, abuse, exclusion, bullying, addictions, etc, which lead to some really bad choices and really bad friendships and relationships. Basically, I have no sense of connection, loyalty, meaning, or any positive association with my family or extended family. I have only associate severe injustice and ignorance with my family. I am not even sure if someone can actually understand what it is like to look at life from a standpoint of being completely disconnected from one's family or family past unless they experience it. I don't associate unity, love, truth, spiritual teaching and guidence with my family, only ignorant myopic narcissism, neglect, hypocrisy, and injustice, as I have said. I truly envy people who have a sense of connection, love, fondness, and trust in family to some degree (I know no family is perfect). Another complicating matter is that my wife and I cannot have children, nor can we adopt due to my wife's health condition. I get on well with my wife's biological family, which is not without it's problems. But there is genuine love and a certain degree of health in it. Her parent love me dearly and tell us all the time that they are grateful to God for letting me be a part of their family. It is making me well up and tearful just writing this. However, due to my own experience of disconnectedness not just from family, but from life and God, I am not able to really ever feel a part of her family, or a part of anything else in life. I have attempted and invited my family to engage in a process of reconciliation which I have translated into religous principles familiar to them and their beliefs. None of them have ever attempted to participate. I truly cannot imagine that I will ever be able to be reconciled with my family. They seem to have no desire to live in truth, only denial, hypocrisy, and narcissism. Is there a place for someon in the Baha'i Faith with these kinds of issues and circumstances? I mean, honestly. First of all, how accepted is a childless man with no chance of having children or adoption likely to be? Baha'is may have all kinds of values and beliefs, but they are human. I just anticipate a lot of judgement and misunderstanding of my background and situation. These things have pained me for years in terms of wanting desparately to become a Baha'i yet, not really ever believing that I could make the leaps of faith required as far as my background and experience, nor being very confident that I would be truly accepted in the Baha'i community. I am very damaged and scarred. I have overcome much and have continued to independently seek the truth inspite of all the turmoil, pain, and obstacles in my life. I suppose what I am really asking is, would the Baha'i Faith or any faith want someone like me, who is so damaged, sceptical, and the living proof of the damage that family, community, society, dysfunctional religion, and self can do? Anoother road block is why would a loving compassionate all knowing God allow such aggregious injustice and evil to happen in the lives of soooooo many people throughout conceiveable time? Why would I trust a parental God that allowed the things that happened to me happen? I mean, if a human parent allowed such things to happen to his or her children, the children would be taken away from the parents (well, hopefully). I mean, if I found out that someone that I was supposed to trust had allow horrible things to happen to me, would or should I trust that person? I have serious distrust and anger toward God for these things. I am seriously misgivings about anything to do with religion. Yet I desparately still wish to somehow overcome all this and enter into and have a connection to God and to the Baha'i Faith. It actually drives me round in cycles and makes me a bit crazy. It occured to me at somepoint I should just ask some Baha'is about all these things, instead of being alone with them, and experssing anger to God about them. Honestly, people, please - don't cliche or use any theological double talk. I can see that coming a mile away and have not respect for religous mental gymnastics or unthinking assumptions. Please, don't even bother responding if you are just going to talk a load of rubbish which will only show your inexperience or lack of insight. I truly have not patience such things. I have had enough of that in life form a lot of other ignorant people. I am hope that there truly is something different about Baha'is and their insights and behaviour. I guess we will find out. If there is a place for me in the Baha'i Faith then say so, and explain what I would need to do to begin a process of getting there - I don't mean just "declaring", I mean considering all the blockages, obstacles, my background ,etc - what will I need to do in terms of the Path. If there is not a place for someone like me, also please explain, constructively and helpfully. Also, don't try to "love bomb" me or try to pretend to be all loving and inclusive, liberal, and egalitarian to try to entice me. I am way beyond the manipulations of religion. I can also see these things coming a mile away, so don't bother. Unless you are secure, sincere, and confident to the core of your being about your own spiritual condition and the Truth of Baha'i Faith in all it's subtle and powerful ways, do not bother responding to this post. I truly hope you disprove many of my expectations about religiously oriented people. I truly do. (apologies for typos and mispells in advance. I don't have the time or energy to edit at the moment.) Last edited by Scott; 06-02-2011 at 08:32 AM.

06-02-2011, 09:16 AM	#4
cire perdue Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: Louisiana Posts: 1,619	Your worst critic WHEWEEEE, I am glad you are talking, b/c you are still being your worst enemy which by your tone is not news to you. By your criteria I can't be a Baha'i for more reasons than you. I have no children, did not have a successful marriage, can't keep a job, and will go to Al Anon for the rest of my life. My parents were alcoholics though were not as bad as some, the effects of their raising me have and still are a burden. I became a Baha'i in 1973 after meeting the person in a gay bar who was a Baha'i then and later withdrew to be gay who could answer my questions then. I struggled with that issue, accepting the Baha'i teachings on that issue as a confirmation of the Faith. Having been in 12 step programs, having counseling, and a degree in it that I don't use I am aware that people project onto God what their parents were like. It is not consciously done. However problems with God as an authority figure are very common. The principles of the Faith have always guided my path for improvement. I have used these values in all my efforts as the standard. I highly recommend Al Anon to someone with family problems even if not alcohol. If there was an alcoholic grandparent that counts as well, but they do not "kick" people out who have no alcoholism in the family. I know people who could go, but getting people to work on painful issues is very hard. Baha'is I know would rather keep everything intellectual rather than face feelings. However Al Anon teaches us we can't change others, but we can and are responsible for how we feel, react, say, and do and ultimately choose how we act rather than react. A group is important because we are no longer alone. Not reaching out keeps us the same way. Not getting help keeps one stuck. It does not need to be a shrink, but self help groups can be incredible. I fired my shrink and get more from Al Anon. I say accept your family does not want to change, and you take care of you. The Faith is not stopping you from being in it, you are. Bad things do happen, we have free will. You probably already know that argument. I won't insult your abilities which are good ones, it appears. There is a place with us if you want to take a step to learn personal faith, to learn to preserve unity, this Faith is a process, not a destination so to speak. Baha'is are responsible for themselves, others are not going to get into your business unless you are flagrantly breaking Baha'i laws. Then you will be treated with the care of a loving parent and directed and advised and given time to correct behavior. We are not rule bound. There are some incredible Baha'is that did not have our disadvantages. That's okay too. However there are unhealthy people in this Faith. The ones I have known have been in denial and sought power and ran things. It took decades, but they finally disappeared. You in no way resemble that kind of person. Those who want to grow become more lovable, not more powerful. Though people perceive me as gay which hurts so very much despite all I have done to recover, I have received only love and support. I don't make this issue known. I have 22 years of solid recovery. I would have remarried, but personality development and problems also go along with being homosexual, it is not just a sexual issue. I was willing to give up giving in to the strongest urge I can think of other than drug addiction. I have not found a reason to regret it or think otherwise. You are obviously intelligent and are only limited by you, but if you become a Baha'i I think it will continue to challenge you to grow. It seems you can't seem not to try to do that, you won't put the Faith away, you continue to come toward it, fearfully, but it is beyond you, but you reach. The best reason to be a Baha'i is because your heart tells you, and to me that would seem to be the case. You will be the person who sees the futility of arguments and see the spirit of these Words. As someone told me better than i had said it those who are broken can see the light through the cracks. Currently I am fighting shame and guilt with depression over failures and have not been doing well. I have gotten a bit better by looking at this, but have help from a sister who I was not speaking to in '98 when our mother died. She and husband are nothing short of amazed at how I have changed, and she is a better mother than I had. I now feel love for her that I had never experienced, there are things I will not say now, because they would hurt her. She drinks, could be an alcoholic, but it's no longer any of my business and now there is love. (I don't think she is an alcoholic, but I let that get in the way, badly) I am blessed and I am special, and i bet I am making sense to you, but only because I have worked on me and because I am a Baha'i. This is all subjective, but it is the most important thing to me. I wish for you to be able to talk this way as well, to be as clear as you can be and to have understanding. I think this Faith granted me that. It is your God give right to choose. Cire Perdue (lost wax en francais, the model which is obliterated by extreme heat leaving a perfect negative impression to be replaced by metal, sometimes gold)

06-03-2011, 01:16 PM	#11
Lunitik Senior Member Joined: Oct 2010 From: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,635	Scott, you seem to be looking outside yourself for healing, are you fearful of taking control of yourself? Why do you look at all these outward influences as causes for your own outlook? They did not cause you to look at the world a certain way, you began to look at the world this way and have justified it by the way they treated you. To truly connect with the world, you must first connect with yourself. To truly be loved, you must first love yourself. Stop punishing yourself for your past, let go of it and just let the present of now happen. Do not consider greatly the future either, as it is not here yet and it rarely complies with our desires. Just practice being content and happy right now! Give to others as they need, do for others when you are able and stop concentrating on yourself constantly. If you can feel good about what you do for others - not because they thank you for it but simply because you did it - you will begin to see how you are connected with the world. You will no longer focus so much on your own issues, and thus they will gradually simply disappear from you as an influence. Once you are ok with yourself again, I think you will find it much more effective trying to reconcile. You will no longer have an undertone of hurt so they will not take offense and become defensive or unresponsive to your attempts to reach out. It cannot be about making them feel bad or attempting to receive some sign of remorse from them, you must reach out and show genuine love for them - this probably seems difficult right now, but it is because you do not currently love yourself, you have no love to give because you do not currently appear to cultivate it. As for reaching out to Baha'is, I think you will find many helpful with balancing your current outlook and I do not feel you will experience much judgement for your past. You will also note that Baha'u'llah has taught we should not confess our sins to each other, so do not feel obligated to share your past if it is uncomfortable. In my experience, Baha'is will take great pains to assist those they can help, so I think you are going in the right direction at this point in your life! Good luck Last edited by Lunitik; 06-03-2011 at 01:19 PM.

06-04-2011, 10:35 AM	#14
blessings blessings Joined: Jan 2011 From: Canada Posts: 24	Traversing beyond roadblocks..... Dear all, There is a point in our suffering, when it gets so bad, so deep, that intuitively we sense that we have approached a line where we either say 'enough', or we turn our backs on life. There are many ways to stop living. But to choose to live takes tremendous courage and energy. I think those of us who have stood with our toes hanging over 'the edge' and, for whatever our reasons, choose to step back......can relate to the following words: "We have come to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore our sanity and bring meaning to our survival from suffering and trauma. We believe that we have survived for a purpose. Even though we often doubt that survival was better than dying, we seek meaning in our lives in order to overcome our despair. We want to be free from the nagging experiences of grief, guilt, and rage. And we want life to become a privilege rather than a burden." (taken from pg. 161 from the book 'Suffering & Spiritual Growth, calamities & providence" by Ebrahim Amanat, MD. ) There is a 12 step program offered in the book specifically designed for those suffering trauma-related distress. Step 3 is choosing trust over shame and doubt: Burdened with mistrust, shame and doubt, we made a decision to seek the help of God in order to learn to trust. Step 4 is taking a self-inventory and developing self-knowledge: We admit to ourselves, to God and to other fellow humans what we know about ourselves and ask for help in accepting our positive qualities while we change our negative qualities. 'The mind and spirit of man advance when he is tried by suffering. The more the ground is ploughed the better the seed will grow, the better the harvest will be. Just as the plough furrows the earth deeply, purifying it of weeds and thistles, so suffering and tribulation free man from the petty affairs of this worldly life until he arrives at a state of complete detachment. His attitude in this world will be that of divine happiness. Man is, so to speak, unripe: the heat of the fire of suffering will mature him. Look back to the times past and you will find that the greatest men have suffered most.' 'Abdu'l-Baha.' 'These passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind. Lve and knowledge, so far as they were possible, led upwards towards the heavens. But always pity brought me back to earth.' Bertrand Russell At one time, the words (above) of Abdu'l-Baha' would have incensed me, so blinded was I by my pain. Now I bow my head in gratitude for both my path and his wisdom. These words have become my mantra: 'I have come to believe that a power greater than myself can restore my sanity and bring meaning ...' Without this faith, this hope.... I could not keep breathing. But I have been practicing purposefully living for many years and I can say I more often feel joy then unhappiness and rarely, if ever, touch despair anymore. And the words of Bertrand Russell - little did I know, at the time, that the quiet little voice inside that pulled me back from the brink and kept me safe by always, always pulling my attention away from myself and, instead, noticing others and their suffering, their needs, would be the same voice that led me, ever so gently, to the Bahai' Faith. I'm a brand new Bahai'. And I've only just stumbled across this book: ' Suffering & Spiritual Growth,' by Ebrahim Amanat, MD, but I can attest to its reinforcing influence on the choice not only to live, but live well. Blessings to all

06-07-2011, 02:22 AM	#15
Scott Junior Member Joined: Jun 2011 From: Planet Earth Posts: 6	Melting Heart, Openning Mind, Rising Spirit Thank you all for your mindful, thoughful, and carefully considered replies. I am glad that my independent search and investigation of Truth has brought me here. Your replies have surprised, inspired, and enlightened me. You have acted in love and truth. Perhaps for the first time I have received it thus from the religiously or spiritually enclined. My response has also surprised me. I have been receptive as never before. My life, experience, and search have brought me to the steps of Reality-As-It-Is. It has been a painful journey which will continue. I have indeed seen the deep and profound truth of detachment, and the doorway of the present moment. So much has been painfully burned from me, so much torn off, and some willingly left aside in my journey. After comming among you, I have a sense that I can begin to make whatever ascent or descent those steps have in store. Those who have allowed truth and sincerity speak through them, I thank you from the depth of my being. Alláh-u-Abhá

06-02-2011, 08:44 AM	#2
Nuck81 Member Joined: May 2011 From: Kentucky Posts: 85	My mom was diagnosed with Breast Cancer in early 2008. She lost both her breasts in a bilateral mastectomy and then after healing from that underwent Chemotherapy. The week after Mom lost her hair, my Dad was killed in a bicycle accident. He was riding his bike and a woman let her dog chase the Bikers down a hill as they went by, my dad hit dog, suffered head injuries (he was wearing a helmet) and died. I blamed God. How could a God let my mother suffer through breast cancer, and then the week after she loses her hair, let my dad die on a bicycle at a time when my mom needed him most. It shattered my Faith, and I became agnostic for about three years. Christianity held no answers for me. And the more people said "God works in mysterious ways" "There is a reason for everything" and "I'll be praying for you" the more it pissed me off. I'm still bitter spiritually in a lot of ways, but when I discovered Baha'i Faith a little over a month ago, I began to feel better. I always dreamed about my dad after he died, almost nightly. They are dreams where I know he is dead, and we just hang around and chat about the things going on. In a way he has become my best friend, it's weird how the mind can create dreams, and compensations for you to deal with a loss and a void. Anyway, the Baha'i Faith gave me comfort and gave me spiritual strength. I don't know why. It just seemed right as soon as I started reading about the Faith. I still haven't declared though, partly because I'm still bitter, mostly because I want to make sure i'm sincere in what I feel and I'm not just going through a "honeymoon" with The Faith. It can be hard, because there are not a lot of Baha'is around, but this forum has become a good place for fellowship for me. I really hope you find what you are looking for. Nuck

06-02-2011, 09:52 AM	#5
Nuck81 Member Joined: May 2011 From: Kentucky Posts: 85	Yeshua- Thanks for the kind words. It was a tough time, especially 2008 and 2009, but time heals all wounds to an extent. Not wanting to hijack Scott's thread anymore, I'll just say "God Bless You!!"

06-02-2011, 12:16 PM	#7
Nuck81 Member Joined: May 2011 From: Kentucky Posts: 85	cire perdue- I've always been a weird dreamer. I'm one of those that can lucid dream very easily as well. Have been able to since I was a kid. I've also been able to remember and recall my dreams easily as well. No Baha'is in the family. I had never even heard of Baha'i Faith till last year, and just started reading about it about two months ago. My family wasn't particularly religious growing up, although I had Aunts and Uncles that were. I haven't officially declared myself as a Baha'i although I have started to think of myself as one. I don't know if I would say I have progressed as much, as this is the outcome of my journey of life at this moment. I'm lucky and glad I stumbled upon the Baha'i Faith and the Words of Baha'u'llah, I will tell you that. Thanks so much for the kind words and encouragement!! They are always needed. Nuck

06-03-2011, 01:45 AM	#8
LordOfGoblins Senior Member Joined: Dec 2010 From: Australia Posts: 1,329	Hello Scott. I am not sure I can offer any helpful advice. But I can say that life is not easy for many people. Why would God give hardships to children that he loves. I am still trying to work this out. In Bahai we are taught troubles come upon us for our growth. During the times of trouble things are very unpleasant. Its not until later we can see the wisdom in it. It is difficult considering God as a 'loving parent'. I think this notion has some problems with it. God is indeed very much like a God in my experience. He lords over his servents. He raises them up casts them down slays some enriches others. What recourse have we? The best we can do is try to live a pious life for the short time that we are in this world and hope that our end is a good one. I have probably not given you any good advice here if so I am sorry. All the best in your future endeavours.

06-03-2011, 08:14 AM	#10
Pollwr Senior Member Joined: Jun 2009 From: earth Posts: 311	Scott, The Bahá'í Faith is for all people. If it were not then I would be out. I think that is one of the underlying principles. If you are to look at the life of Abdul-Bahá you will see that is how he lived. Any Bahá'í community is made of individuals who came to the Faith different ways. I hope that you will find the acceptance and love we all deserve but if you don't it may weill be about the limitations and lack of understanding of others rather than yours. Welcome to the forum and I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

06-03-2011, 11:21 PM	#13
arthra Senior Member Joined: Jun 2006 From: California Posts: 3,063	Scott wrote: Anoother road block is why would a loving compassionate all knowing God allow such aggregious injustice and evil to happen in the lives of soooooo many people throughout conceiveable time? Why would I trust a parental God that allowed the things that happened to me happen? My reply: If your study the principles of the Baha'i Faith you'll come to understand I think that humans have more responsibility than they do in previous dispensations.. So people can screw things up for others pretty bad and are responsible.. God allows us freedom to deny Him and screw things up! The tendency in the past has been to blame the devil or God which ever..when we all share in the responsibility for what happens! Scott wrote: Is there a place for someon in the Baha'i Faith with these kinds of issues and circumstances? I mean, honestly. First of all, how accepted is a childless man with no chance of having children or adoption likely to be? Baha'is may have all kinds of values and beliefs, but they are human. I just anticipate a lot of judgement and misunderstanding of my background and situation. My reply: Years ago my brother-in-law was a drug addict and in and out of jail .. His family had pretty much given up on him..then he declared his faith in Baha'u'llah.. He stopped abusing drugs.. began working and entered graduate school. Today he's an archivist and respected in his field and has a stable family life... I've met seriously disturbed people who became Baha'is and it's really stabilized their lives!

06-24-2011, 02:06 PM	#16
Fadl chief bottle washer Joined: Jun 2011 From: "Here am I, Here am I" Posts: 737	Dear Scott, You posted this long ago, but I am new to this forum, and wanted to respond to you, because I was very moved by your words and pray things will soon be better for you. I think it is very natural for us to feel we are unworthy of being Baha'is, and it is right for us to be aware of our own short comings in order to work on them. But the truth is, the more sick and messed up we are, the more we need to be in this faith. The Faith is for everyone, and it brings a healing message for humanity, but Baha'u'llah has called himself the "Divine Physician." If you think about that, this means that those of us who are far from perfection and good health, really need to be here the most. It is good to see the Physician when one is well, and practice preventative medicine and healthy living. But when one is sick, seeing the physician can mean a matter of life and death. Please don't wait to be an angel before entering the ark of salvation, and do feel welcome here--warts and all!

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