Newer Translation on Homosexuality: SOURCE? QUESTIONS!

cire perdue · 08-15-2011, 06:05 AM

NOTE: In OCEAN I find this quote below from COMPILATIONS OF COMPILATIONS and 1993 and 1995 letters from The Universal House of Justice, but not from "A Chaste and Holy Life". QUESTION: IS "ACAHL" A REAL REFERENCE?

"Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery. Avoid them, O concourse of the faithful. By the righteousness of God! Ye have been called into being to purge the world from the defilement of evil passions. This is what the Lord of all mankind hath enjoined upon you, could ye but perceive it. He who relateth himself to the All-Merciful and committeth satanic deeds, verily he is not of Me. Unto this beareth witness every atom, pebble, tree and fruit, and beyond them this ever-proclaiming, truthful and trustworthy Tongue." (A Chaste and Holy Life, p.57)

QUESTION: Is the below translation of those terms accurate?

Baha'u'llah wrote "Ye are forbidden to commit ZINA, LIWAT, and SIHAQAQ....."

Zina: hetero sex outside of marriage

Liwat: male homosexual acts

Sihaqaq: female homosexual acts

There have been "complaints" and attempts to invalidate the law against homosexuality in the KATIBI AQDAS due to the non-specific reference to homosexuality. Another reference IS helpful to defend the position against homosexual acts. It takes faith to accept this teaching in a time where it is popularly accepted. There is a knowledge base out there that supports homosexuality is a developmental disorder and there are recovering homosexuals that have validated this model.

Fadl · 08-15-2011, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire perdue

NOTE: In OCEAN I find this quote below from COMPILATIONS OF COMPILATIONS and 1993 and 1995 letters from The Universal House of Justice, but not from "A Chaste and Holy Life". QUESTION: IS "ACAHL" A REAL REFERENCE?

"Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery. Avoid them, O concourse of the faithful. By the righteousness of God! Ye have been called into being to purge the world from the defilement of evil passions. This is what the Lord of all mankind hath enjoined upon you, could ye but perceive it. He who relateth himself to the All-Merciful and committeth satanic deeds, verily he is not of Me. Unto this beareth witness every atom, pebble, tree and fruit, and beyond them this ever-proclaiming, truthful and trustworthy Tongue." (A Chaste and Holy Life, p.57)

QUESTION: Is the below translation of those terms accurate?

Baha'u'llah wrote "Ye are forbidden to commit ZINA, LIWAT, and SIHAQAQ....."

Zina: hetero sex outside of marriage

Liwat: male homosexual acts

Sihaqaq: female homosexual acts

There have been "complaints" and attempts to invalidate the law against homosexuality in the KATIBI AQDAS due to the non-specific reference to homosexuality. Another reference IS helpful to defend the position against homosexual acts. It takes faith to accept this teaching in a time where it is popularly accepted. There is a knowledge base out there that supports homosexuality is a developmental disorder and there are recovering homosexuals that have validated this model.

The terms are correctly translated.

AEMoss · 08-16-2011, 04:06 PM

The translations are from the Research Dept. per a letter from them in I think 1995. Sorry, I don't have a copy anymore. You can write to the Research Dept. yourself, but don't expect a quick response. Mine took over 5 months. Perhaps things have changed and it will be a shorter time.

"Homosexuals" will suffer the same fate as "heterosexuals" who are not "born again" (i.e. transform their human soul into an Angelic Soul while living), which means they will "return" to the Realm of Fire (i.e. another mortal life on another material world---where the Sun "burns" our skin), to again be punished, to again be tested, to again be given the opportunity for Spiritual Transformation.

Fadl · 08-16-2011, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEMoss

The translations are from the Research Dept. per a letter from them in I think 1995. Sorry, I don't have a copy anymore. You can write to the Research Dept. yourself, but don't expect a quick response. Mine took over 5 months. Perhaps things have changed and it will be a shorter time.

"Homosexuals" will suffer the same fate as "heterosexuals" who are not "born again" (i.e. transform their human soul into an Angelic Soul while living), which means they will "return" to the Realm of Fire (i.e. another mortal life on another material world---where the Sun "burns" our skin), to again be punished, to again be tested, to again be given the opportunity for Spiritual Transformation.

There is no reincarnation in the Baha'i teachings, and so your personal opinion is at odds with Baha'i beliefs.

Quote:

"A belief in reincarnation goeth far back into the ancient history of almost all peoples, and was held even by the philosophers of Greece, the Roman sages, the ancient Egyptians, and the great Assyrians. Nevertheless such superstitions and sayings are but absurdities in the sight of God."
-Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 183

I understand that you are not a Baha'i and were only expressing your personal opinion. That is fine, but since this may not have been obvious to everyone, I wanted to clarify that.

Fadl · 08-17-2011, 12:32 AM

Here is the quote again, with its source referenced. I Obtained it using the Ocean program:

Quote:

Immoral Practices are Condemned:

"Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery. Avoid them, O concourse of the faithful. By the righteousness of God! Ye have been called into being to purge the world from the defilement of evil passions. This is what the Lord of all mankind hath enjoined upon you, could ye but perceive it. He who relateth himself to the All-Merciful and committeth satanic deeds, verily he is not of Me. Unto this beareth witness every atom, pebble, tree and fruit, and beyond them this ever-proclaiming, truthful and trustworthy Tongue."

Bahá'u'lláh, from a Tablet - translated from the Arabic, published in "The Compilation of Compilations" vol. I, p. 57

cire perdue · 08-17-2011, 06:24 AM

I got a little panicked there, but it is good to have another reference since there are contentions that the passage in the KATABI AQDAS is not specific enough. I so wish that others could see the Faith without having to change it into something it cannot be. It has to be rigorous at least in comparison to current values. The standards of this Faith are not arbitrary rules so that we will be counting coup with God to be in His favor, on the contrary these laws are for our happiness. I think Chesterton said it, that real happiness is not about seizing the day while ye may, it is about life long goals and committments. This Faith may not give you what you want, but it will allow you to find what you truly need. CP

LordOfGoblins · 08-17-2011, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire perdue

I got a little panicked there, but it is good to have another reference since there are contentions that the passage in the KATABI AQDAS is not specific enough. I so wish that others could see the Faith without having to change it into something it cannot be. It has to be rigorous at least in comparison to current values. The standards of this Faith are not arbitrary rules so that we will be counting coup with God to be in His favor, on the contrary these laws are for our happiness. I think Chesterton said it, that real happiness is not about seizing the day while ye may, it is about life long goals and committments. This Faith may not give you what you want, but it will allow you to find what you truly need. CP

Well said.

08-15-2011, 06:05 AM	#1
cire perdue Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: Louisiana Posts: 1,619	Newer Translation on Homosexuality: SOURCE? QUESTIONS! NOTE: In OCEAN I find this quote below from COMPILATIONS OF COMPILATIONS and 1993 and 1995 letters from The Universal House of Justice, but not from "A Chaste and Holy Life". QUESTION: IS "ACAHL" A REAL REFERENCE? "Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery. Avoid them, O concourse of the faithful. By the righteousness of God! Ye have been called into being to purge the world from the defilement of evil passions. This is what the Lord of all mankind hath enjoined upon you, could ye but perceive it. He who relateth himself to the All-Merciful and committeth satanic deeds, verily he is not of Me. Unto this beareth witness every atom, pebble, tree and fruit, and beyond them this ever-proclaiming, truthful and trustworthy Tongue." (A Chaste and Holy Life, p.57) QUESTION: Is the below translation of those terms accurate? Baha'u'llah wrote "Ye are forbidden to commit ZINA, LIWAT, and SIHAQAQ....." Zina: hetero sex outside of marriage Liwat: male homosexual acts Sihaqaq: female homosexual acts There have been "complaints" and attempts to invalidate the law against homosexuality in the KATIBI AQDAS due to the non-specific reference to homosexuality. Another reference IS helpful to defend the position against homosexual acts. It takes faith to accept this teaching in a time where it is popularly accepted. There is a knowledge base out there that supports homosexuality is a developmental disorder and there are recovering homosexuals that have validated this model.

08-17-2011, 06:24 AM	#6
cire perdue Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: Louisiana Posts: 1,619	Thanks to all! I got a little panicked there, but it is good to have another reference since there are contentions that the passage in the KATABI AQDAS is not specific enough. I so wish that others could see the Faith without having to change it into something it cannot be. It has to be rigorous at least in comparison to current values. The standards of this Faith are not arbitrary rules so that we will be counting coup with God to be in His favor, on the contrary these laws are for our happiness. I think Chesterton said it, that real happiness is not about seizing the day while ye may, it is about life long goals and committments. This Faith may not give you what you want, but it will allow you to find what you truly need. CP

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08-16-2011, 04:06 PM	#3
AEMoss Member Joined: Aug 2011 From: Utah Posts: 31	The translations are from the Research Dept. per a letter from them in I think 1995. Sorry, I don't have a copy anymore. You can write to the Research Dept. yourself, but don't expect a quick response. Mine took over 5 months. Perhaps things have changed and it will be a shorter time. "Homosexuals" will suffer the same fate as "heterosexuals" who are not "born again" (i.e. transform their human soul into an Angelic Soul while living), which means they will "return" to the Realm of Fire (i.e. another mortal life on another material world---where the Sun "burns" our skin), to again be punished, to again be tested, to again be given the opportunity for Spiritual Transformation.