cire perdue

Everytime a new Prophet appears mankind learns how the teachings of the previous Prophet have erred from the truth. Errors occur over 100's of years and until Muhammad the Words utter through these Mirrors were not written down. I am unable to speak to what Muhammad clarified of Christianity, and my point is not to talk about the differences taught by Baha'u'llah, but to remind us that things are rejected.

Christ threw the money lenders out of the Temple, He mixed with gentiles, and He abrogated laws of Judaism. He brought a new spiritual understanding into the world and as a result soon after Romans would no longer commit infanticide, watch humans dying for entertainment, perform abortions, and would become men who would care for and heal the sick. If the ethics and the morality of the Jewish and Roman people remained in effect we would live in an incredibly hard society. One because the Jewish Teachings were focused on diet and the letter of the law, and the pagans practiced a rather empty polytheism that at best gave out free food to the masses and by organized and effecient military might accomplish peace through conquest.

I am able to notice without much difficulty in seeing it, that the two largest religious populations are very literal in belief and nearly overcome in disunity. If the Baha'i Faith is not from God it is an illusion that is far greater than what else is available. Literalism and disunity are not creative forces. They do not lead to renaissances. The void of meaninglessness is being filled by narcissistic materialism. What we must go through to change this is scary. It is said that an alcoholic has to hit bottom before he will turn to help. It remains an academic question, "Can an alcoholic choose bottom?" How much worse will it become before spiritual solutions are sought, because there are no political solutions.
As France and Russian have shown, revolutions almost never bring about better governments. Isn't it the epitome of naivety to encourage revolution as a political solution?

Ben Bet Beh

This is how I view the Protestant Reformation period, which was really the Protestant Revolution. Quite frankly, this is also how I view the coming of Islam. It too was a revolution.

If the "manifestations of God" concept is correct, it seems it has spawned revolutions against the many manifestations rather than creating unity. It does cause me to pause for a moment as to what a belief in the Baha'i faith may lead to as time goes on.

cire perdue

Then also Christianity was a revolution, because it took over Rome, part of it became Rome. It contributed to the fall of the empire, because partly it did not focus on military solutions which is what held Rome together. Caesar Augustus' plan was peace through military victory. The growth of social change is much slower than a revolution which is generally in my mind politcal. The American Revolution escaped the ill effects of revolt, perhaps because it was a colony. I suspect that social change is brought about more the result of religion than any other force.

Here's my favorite historical fact about how religion changes people, it's from THE RISE OF CHRISTIANITY by Rodney Stark. In Rome in approximately 150 and 250 AD there were plagues. The pagans fled the city, abandonning the sick, and leaving dying family members by the road. In great contrast the Christians nursed the sick and even died doing so. That is a stark contrast in behavior that is a result of the power of faith. Baha'is have already demonstrated willingness to strive for spiritual growth with purpose and appeals to the most diverse audience. There are examples of Baha'is who have made as large a leap in belief as those early Christians particularly among the Persian population. However there are Americans who have rejected popularly accepted lifestyles b/c they do not meet Baha'i standards.

Had Islam not fractured at Muhammad's death perhaps Baghdad would not have been sacked. It had street lights and plumbing. There was no leadership to have provided the military needed to protect it. We don't know what the future will bring, but seeds are planted. Literal interpretation of the Bible to interpret the future is not acceptable to me. I do know that truly united peoples can do amazing things.

spirit

The manifestations of God, in and of themselves, bring the holy word to us. It is human beings who create disunity, by distorting the word. For example: you say it means this, I say it means that. You say its literal, I say its metaphorical, this causes revolution. We think we are right!
If we look at the manifestations actions and their words, we can follow a progression, and a balance between action and word.

LordOfGoblins

well revolutions...hmmm.
Manmade ones are a bit different from religious ones. As far as the french revolution is concerned and other ones, they are usually symtoms of mans unhappiness with the inplace systems.
As far as religious revolutions. This is a matter of perspective, I think. A person whose mind is open who is seeking the return of Jesus and who sees beyond the doctrines and rituals of the church and can separate what came from the chuch from what is the pure teaching behind the bible, such a person may not have such a hard time recognising the new prophet (Baha'u'llah). Otherwise a traditional Christian might think a Bahai is totally destroying the edifice of Christianity with its non-literal and more spiritual interpretations of the coming of Jesus as well as his life. So really it might be considered a matter of perspective.
On the hand, Baha'u'llah says God tests man so it is not surprising some of the new teachings come in a garment that is not to peoples liking and they reject it...

LordOfGoblins

From the Gleanings of Baha'u'llah.

"Ponder a while. What is it that prompted, in every Dispensation, the peoples of the earth to shun the Manifestation of the All-Merciful? What could have impelled them to turn away from Him and to challenge His authority? Were men to meditate on these words which have flowed from the Pen of the Divine Ordainer, they would, one and all, hasten to embrace the truth of this God-given, and ever-enduring Revelation, and would testify to that which He Himself hath solemnly affirmed. It is the veil of idle imaginations which, in the days of the Manifestations of the Unity of God and the Day Springs of His everlasting glory, hath intervened, and will continue to intervene, between them and the rest of mankind. For in those days, He Who is the Eternal Truth manifesteth Himself in conformity with that which He Himself hath purposed, and not according to the desires and expectations of men. Even as He hath revealed: “So oft, then, as an Apostle cometh to you with that which your souls desire not, do ye swell with pride, and treat some as impostors, and slay others.”

In red is Baha'u'llah quoting Muhammad (Qur’án 2:87)

cire perdue

Siege of Constantinople (1204) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Farnese Cup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The horses over the "porch" of St Mark's in Venice were booty from that crusade. The Farnese Cup/Tazza which is actually puple rather than brown was part of the booty as well. It was believed to be the only thing that Octavian took from Cleopatra's palace after her and Anthony's defeat in 31 BC. It was that valuable, but taken in 1204 by the Venetians. About 25 years ago there was a touring museum show from the treaury of San Marco that showed other lapidary items that had been mounted in Venetian filigree that must have been imperial treasures before their theft. Interesting to consider how much of Rome may have been intact before all the battles for dominance.


I think you are using the word revolution not as it is meant:
(per Sociology) revolution: a radical and pervasive change in society and the social structure, especially one made suddenly and often accompanied by violence. Compare social evolution. : the gradual development of society and social forms, institutions, etc., usually through a series of peaceful stages. Compare revolution ( def. 2 ). Do we fear to make God our master? I think any westerner can relate to that, because we have the idea of freedom ingrained. However real freedom is knowing one's limits and focusing. Living a carpe diem-"gathering rose buds as ye may" lifestyle is merely freedom of the senses.