GenuineSeeker

I am in a Ruhi Study Circle but wonder if it would be more honest to drop out. The reason is because last session, our leader told us the purpose of the study groups is to create human resources to serve and tell others about the Faith.

My purpose in getting involved was to LEARN about the Faith and the Writings and what they teach, not to become an evangelist for a religious group. If I should decide to become a Baha'i at some point in the future, I'm sure I would tell some of my friends about my beliefs, but I will never become an evangelist for any religion.

My question is whether there is another way to LEARN and UNDERSTAND what is in the writings? Are there book studies, for example, on the Book of Certitude? I would love to participate in something like that.

Fadl

Hi Genuine Seeker!

I can understand feeling how you do, and wanting only to study the faith without feeling any pressure or viewing yourself as a potential human resource to something that you are not yourself committed to and only want to study.

This is my suggestion for you. Let them know that while you respect their objectives for the group, you have your own personal objectives at this time. Just because they view their purpose as raising human resources does not mean that they will succeed in achieving this objective for everybody all the time. It also doesn't mean that you can't have a different objective for yourself that is different than their objective. I think if you make this clear to them, you will feel better about it, and I'm sure you will find that they will still welcome you and want you to come even if you don't view yourself as a future human resource.

Best of luck!

GenuineSeeker

I did. But, then I got home and noticed that the entire format for Book 2, is in the context of telling other people about the Faith. For example, we were supposed to visualize ourselves making a home visit to new converts and telling them about the covenant before we even learned what the covenant WAS. Red flags for more than one reason during that session.

Fadl

This is true. I've has this discussion with others regarding a study circle we had with a number of non-Baha'is who we'd done book 1 with. We also felt that it was odd to jump from reflections on the life of the spirit, to teaching with a group who were primarily searching. In the end, we skipped book 2 and went on to the books about the Bab and Baha'u'llah, which seemed to go well.

There is something to keep in mind about the Ruhi courses. As an instrument for raising human resources, they are primarily aimed at the Baha'i community itself. When viewed this way, it is not illogical at all to go from reflections on the life of the spirit to teaching. For a Baha'i who is indeed living the life, and possibly as an outcome of having done book 1, teaching is a logical follow on, since it is natural to share the faith for a practicing Baha'i living the life. But even if your group goes on immediately to Book 2, you shouldn't feel afraid to carry on with them. For us, teaching is different than proselytizing, which is forbidden. There are also some wonderful writings and teachings studied in Book 2 that may surprise you, and that you may find very enlightening and uplifting for you. As a seeker, perhaps you can consider seeing what the Baha'i teachings have to say about teaching as a worthy thing to know about a faith you are exploring. It doesn't mean you have to become a Baha'i or that you have to teach. Think of it as getting an inside view of the faith as it really is with real Baha'is. After all, that's what Ruhi is. It is not a special program designed to "train new recruits" so to speak. Rather, it is designed to help Baha'is know and live the Baha'i life better, and we welcome everyone interested to come along. What a great opportunity, then, for an outsider to get a close and intimate look at what the faith really is, and not just a lot of window dressing to rope people in.


Cheers

GenuineSeeker

What books are those books about the Bab and Baha'u'llah? What number or numbers? No one in our group wanted to continue after last session on the current track, as we all said we didn't want to do home visits.

Fadl

Book 4 is on the Twin Manifestations (the Bab and Baha'u'llah).

So why didn't anyone want to do home visits, if you don't mind sharing?

For me, I find that there can be some trepidation about visiting someone to share a prayer or something like that, but once tried it often turns out much more than one might expect. I think it is good for us to get comfortable sharing in spiritual things as friends and communities. Spirituality is one of those things that everyone yearns for and thinks a lot about, but for some reason we all act as if it is the last thing on our minds and not very important to us. I've had home visits where we talked about sports more than anything else, but then we tied that into spiritual principles. Yes, even football has spiritual principles involved, and there is more to a spiritual life and home visits than prayer and reading scriptures! It just takes a willingness to share and reflect about the normal things in life to find purpose and meaning and share. It's great stuff.



Cheers

GenuineSeeker

...for the same reason your group changed to Book 4, as you stated previously...no one was AFRAID to do home visits. It is not what anyone is seeking at this point...

Noexalt

That's News. Every meeting I've ever been to encouraged Baha'is to invite non-Baha'is to Ruhi, emphasis on starting with Book 1, not to skip books, etc, etc.

What it says when a non-Baha'i doesn't want to be part of a certain book is that perhaps "The Process" has flaws. The mere suggestion is a big no-no.

BruceDLimber

Greetings!

As has already been pointed out, you are in no way obligated to be involved in teaching the Faith if you choose not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineSeeker Are there book studies, for example, on the Book of Certitude?

And to answer your other question, which I never saw addressed, yes: there are study guides for the Book of Certitude and other volumes of the Writings.

Peace, and I wish you all the best! :-)

Bruce

GenuineSeeker

The thing is, I don't know how to find out if a book study is going on in the area since those kinds of announcements aren't disseminated to the general public, as far as I know. Maybe I could try to find a local website.

Thank you for the well-wishes

Noexalt

Honestly, there probably aren't any. When the Ruhi Institute came in to being, there was a movement away from deepening/gatherings by individuals for those kinds of areas of study (Independent subjects - Iqan, Christanity, etc.) and everyone went to support the Ruhi curriculum. You can ask, heck maybe you can start one up, but don't be surprised if it doesn't sustain due to the demands of the core activities of the 5-year plan ie: Study Circles (Ruhi) Devotional Gatherings, and Children's classes. If it does however, I personally would be overjoyed.

GenuineSeeker

Yes, I know how these things work with organizations. Group think, etc.

Sen McGlinn

If you want to get to know the Bahai Faith, its founders and their teachings, Ruhi is not for you. You might like to look at the "where do I start" thread on this forum. There may be some Bahais in your local area who are knowledgeable enough to help you, on the subjects that interest you (it's a big field, no-one can cover it all), and you could enquire about summerschools, winterschools etc., and the courses at the Wilmette Institute. And Bahai Forums and Planet Bahai are good places to post questions. Good luck

Noexalt

I agree with Sen. There are other ways besides Ruhi. Wilmette Institute might be good, although I've never done any of them myself, maybe you can do it for free since you are not a Baha'i..

Watch out for any paternalistic approach whatever you do. There are no gurus, masters, "teachers", or anything resembling that in the Faith no matter how well accomplished, learned, or respected they appear to be. There are always some that like to indulge in hearing themselves talk.

Even that shred of advice sounded paternalistic but I couldn't help myself. At least I recognize it.

Fadl

Interesting, Sen. Since the Ruhi courses are about living the Baha'i life and it's founders, and since they are not as exhaustive as the hundreds of volumes of writings from which they were derived, I wonder what a better method is. I think your statement is rubbish. Ruhi is a perfect way to "get to know" the faith and founders. It's surely not everything, but it is a very nice place to start.

I think when you want to make a recommendation like this, Sen, that it is only fair that you make a disclaimer about your status.

Noexalt

Fadl, I don't think Sen has to reveal his status every time he expresses his opinion. Sen has his own website with everything out in the open. I do not think his opinion is any more or less of value than anyone else's regardless of their "status" whatever that means, what are we going to do, rank everyone on the site so we somehow know who's word matters more than others? Making distinctions between people on an open forum seems to run against the spirit of this forum as well as the Faith itself.

There is my opinion, my status is irrelevant.

Fadl

I love Sen, and don't thing he needs some type of disclosure for every opinion he has. But when his opinion is to that someone doesn't need the very thing the UHJ is encouraging all to get behind, then it seems reasonable to make some disclosure. If I felt the thing that Sen does and were in his situation, I would share my opinion, but disclose my circumstance as to not allow for any confusion. Again, I love Sen, and don't want to censure him or run him off in anyway.

Sen McGlinn

Genuine Seeker's original posting is clear enough I think: " our leader told us the purpose of the study groups is to create human resources to serve and tell others about the Faith. My purpose in getting involved was to LEARN about the Faith and the Writings and what they teach..."

In Bahai-speak, he/she's looking for a deepening programme, and Ruhi isn't what he or she needs. While the UHJ is certainly backing Ruhi, it has not said that it is a deepening method, or that it is intended to replace the essential activity of deepening, which should be part of the Bahai life and Bahai communities.

The Virtues programme for example is not a deepening programme, while the Eternal Verities programme is. It's horses for courses. Ruhi cannot be all things to all people.

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineSeeker I don't know how to find out if a book study is going on in the area since those kinds of announcements aren't disseminated to the general public, as far as I know.

Such study groups (frequently called "deepenings") definitely exist in many locations!

Simply ask around among the Baha'i communities near you to try to find one, and if all else fails, please feel free to start your own and invite the Baha'is to attend!

Peace, :-)

Bruce

arthra

As far as Ruhi Book Two and references to teaching the Cause to people when non-Baha'is are in the class..as a tutor I basically have not stressed it and focused more on the essence of the message... Questions come up about the Covenant came up in Boot Two I explain what it is..no problemo.

My view:

I do think the Ruhi classes are a good way to introduce people to the Faith...They do cover spiritual truths and character as well as history of the Cause and the Covenant.

There's an online study guide for the Kitab-i-Iqan at:

Kitáb-i-Íqán, The Book of Certitude

and you'll find other study guides there as well.

You can also take courses through the Wilmette Institute:

Home :: Courses and Registration :: Upcoming Courses and Registration

Napkin

Yes, as a Baha'i, the purpose of your existence is recruiting.
You can do what the majority of us are doing and study on your own. The community is run by show-ff proselytizers.

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napkin The [Baha'i] community is run by show-ff proselytizers.

Given that you've apparently never been anywhere near a Baha'i meeting, you are in NO POSITION to describe how the Baha'i community is run--let alone to criticize it! :-(


Bruce

Napkin

I've been to ruhi, firesides, reflection meetings, devotions, and at least 4 feasts before I threw in the towel.

I enjoyed the firesides the most since there was people like me, not afraid to ask questions....although no one ever came back after hearing the answers.
I enjoyed ruhi classes till I failed to see the difference between the instructor and a priest.
Reflection meetings were ridiculous. They kept saying their door to door efforts had no agenda.....then they shared stories about how they were sending the kids home with Baha'i prayers....but no agenda!
Devotions were great. I enjoy a good meditation every now and then but very few people participated.
The feast was the final straw for me. The repeated request for money got old fast.

GenuineSeeker

So, you're a Baha'i?

Napkin

I wouldn't go that far....I like ur bahaullah, but I don't like ur Baha'is. Ur Baha'is are nothing like ur bahaullah

GenuineSeeker

Then, you quite obviously have not told the truth. Baha'is do not ask non-Baha'is for money for their cause.

tonyfish58

There is a difference. IMHO

The Rhui book sessions are run by a "Teacher" but in reality the correct name should be a Facilitator. A Teacher/Facilitator of Ruhi is there to stimulate discussion on a specific topic and not be there to say this is what this means.

No Baha'i can put an interpretation on scripture.

The Faith does not reject the learned amongst us and as we can all learn from each other, so of course a person of knowledge will be the wisest choice to Facilitate a discussion group. You do not have to agree with what they suggest, put your point forward and let the resulting discussion find a spark of Truth.

Regards Tony

Itena

Word. Whenever I was in Ruhi, the emphasis that the Facilitator was to stimulate discussion and not preach their interpretation on it was what I experienced, and what was constantly reminded to the community in my area.

tonyfish58

I agree 100% - I have only started Rhui in the last year and I see no Facilitator trying to direct a conversation in the direction they wish it to go.

Regards Tony

Napkin

Is it possible I just ran into a group of twisted Baha'is then? Our teacher even showed up one day wearing a shirt with a collar vey much like the one priests wear. I've only been in 4 ruhi classes and all of them the teachers acted just like priests. I brought it up and I was immediately put down as someone questioning authority

Itena

That sounds very strange Napkin. Very strange. That is certainly not how that's supposed to go.

Emilia

We still have firesides in metro Atlanta, fwiw.

Emilia

Yeah, it is possible.

I know one Baha'i who is sometimes referred to using a clergy-like title mostly not as a flattering thing, because he acts like he's uh in charge of things in his area. The people saying this would better remain silent or at least talk to the ABM, and the target of this title seems to actually appreciate it. It's not something I would even mention if it didn't seem relevant or if there were any way anyone here could identify who I was referring to. That would be very uncool.

I can think of a few similar incidents. One from years ago when a person introduced himself as the "pastor of the Baha'i Church". Fortunately he eventually figured that was a problem, but this stuff does happen occasionally.

There's a very good reason why our LSAs are not yet "Houses of Justice." We are so not ready for that yet.

Do you know who the Auxiliary Board Member is in your area? It may be worth your while to contact that person and express some of your concerns about clergy-like behaviour and a facilitator that thinks he's "in charge" of anything.

There are some Ruhi tutors who have been removed from the tutor list for acting like in an inappropriate manner. If someone is acting clergy-like, the Institutions need to know that so they can find a way to remedy the situation.

Emilia

Fadl, I have to disagree with you a bit here, just because of my own personal history.

I was an atheist when I ran into the Baha'i Faith, and if my only route of introduction was to have gone through Ruhi book 1, which talks about Life After Death and Prayer, you would've lost me right off the bat.

Ruhi has many advantages, but one size fits all isn't one of them.

If I'm not much mistaken the UHJ didn't ask us to drop everything else and only do Ruhi. They challenged us to keep doing what we already were doing and ADD Ruhi.

Emilia

So basically you encountered a bad experience, and it must be true everywhere?

I believe this is called the fallacy of sweeping generalization.

I am unused to repeated requests for money at Feasts. Occasionally the Feast letter will say something about it, and there is the Treasurer's report. But even the Treasurer's report is not somewhere I often hear requests for money. They hold up a chart and people can read and figure it out for themselves.

I could go several Feasts in a row and not hear money even mentioned other than the Treasurer mentioning total receipts and maybe some disbursements. The Fund box is in the corner and discreet, and everyone knows where it is, so why mention it?

If you found the repeated requests for money problematic, it's something that can be brought up for consultation. (Though generally I find it's better if you come forearmed with some Writings to consider.)

GenuineSeeker

Thanks Arthra. I hadn't seen this before. I will definitely print out the study guide as that is my latest Baha'i book that I am studying. Thanks again

Napkin

Isn't the bandwagon fallacy?

I guess it's possible that I happen to have encountered Baha'is who were creepy but there was 3 of us searching and searching for a normal Baha'i community within a 30 mile radius, and we simply didn't find it.

There was also the sense of being out of place. Usually the three of us were the only attendees under 50 and more often than not we were the only ones not from Iran. (nothing against Iranians, still have some awesome Persian friends). We finally figured they were more comfortable doing the whole event in Farsi and we were just an inconvenience.

Emilia

In what way? I know full well communities and areas can have some odd quirks -- not always very nice ones either.

LOL funny story digression. One community was comprised entirely of women who had met Abdu'l-Baha (obviously this is from a while back), and this young man had learned about the faith and wanted to join. The ladies thought about it and refused him, telling him "you have to have met Abdu'l-Baha to join.

Today the reaction would be "omg that actually happened?"

Well, we may have progressed past that, but it hardly means were done with things to work on.

The odds are against that happening over an area of that size, but not impossible for all that.

All I can tell you is that I have seen a couple of things where people tried to act all clergy like, and communities largely rolled over for it, at least for a while.

A friend of mine remarks that some people are Baha'is who happen to be Persian, and some are Persians that happen to be Baha'is. Sounds like you hit some of the latter.

I know friends of mine in Germany have said something similar about a community being way too Persian and doing the comfortable thing and refusing to accept the diversity the Faith demands.

I would note that the NSA has been known to disband LSAs that refuse to accomodate local culture and insist on holding meetings in Farsi even though some LSA members do not speak it.

I think Shoghi Effendi is insistent we not get into habits with Feast for reasons that habits turn into "traditions" and that tends to lock out other possibilities...and people.

Also, in the U.S. it's been remarked many times by those from other backgrounds that as practiced the Baha'i Faith in the U.S. has a decidedly Protestant flavor. That can be off putting as well, though I think nowhere near what you ran into.

We have an awful lot of work to do before we come close to being considered Houses of Justice.

Napkin

I was saying what you thought I was doing might actually be called the bandwagon fallacy, but I'm not sure

Emilia

LOL Napkin now I am totally confused. I am also online way too late, which may have much to do with my confusion. So I think I'll try to get some sleep and maybe something will click with me tomorrow.

Good night!