Fadl

I think it would be nice if we shared different ideas about how we understand the law, and, how we have tried to impliment it or possibly, ways we have imagined but haven't yet tried!

I will start the thread with something posted in a thread about the funds, about Huquq that I thought would be better in a new thread on the topic of Huquq.

IndistinctDreamer

Could you explain your method in a little more detail? I'm slightly confused by it

Fadl

Basically, I am doing it inside out.

So you know, basically whenever a person acquires 19 mithqals of gold, less needful expenses, such as your home, furnishings, etc. 19 percent of that is due. So, rather than deducting my exemptions, I am taxing myself on things that are NOT exempted. That way, the only thing left to do is calculate on my savings.

A less backwards way, would be to determine your savings once a year, then deduct all the exempt items, add back in all the non exempt items, see if you reach 19 mithqals ( a huquq unit) and then pay 19 % of that.

I found my method easier for me because I keep up as I go, and, by taxing myself on that which is not exempt, I don't worry that I forget to add it back to my savings total later, meaning I would under pay Huquq. Of course, there are lots of ways to do this, and mine is only a way, not necessarily the best. I've only started it a few months back this way, so I will see at the end of the year how much better it is than how I did it before. I can say that so far this way feels easier, and I like that I can do the payment more often because it is such a spiritual thing, really.

IndistinctDreamer

Makes sense.

I just checked the current US price for gold its 55.23-55.46
Lets take $55.46/gram for the sake of simplicity.
1 Mithqal is 4.46g?
So 19 Mithqals would be 84.74 grams of gold?

So 55.46 X 84.74
which is
4699.6804
So for every $4699 you would pay 19% ? which is about $892

If I'm right so far, is the $4699 based on everything bought that is not necessaries? Or would it be $4699 minus the necessities then 19% of that?

I just happen to have a math exam tomorrow haha

Rani

I have consistently seen it written that 19 mithqals is equal to 69.192 grams, or 2.22456 troy ounces.

Read more: One Baha'i's approach...: 19 Mithqals of Gold

IndistinctDreamer

Ah makes sense.

On a side note: Anyone know what a dowry is? its mentioned in your link but I've never heard of it before. If someone wants they can pm me as id rather not hijack this thread

Rani

57. Thou hast written that they have pledged themselves to observe maximum austerity in their lives with a view to forwarding the remainder of their income to His exalted presence. This matter was mentioned at His holy court. He said: Let them act with moderation and not impose hardship upon themselves. We would like them both to enjoy a life that is well-pleasing.

(Compilations, Huququ'llah)

For me, and from my perspective, I think it might be austere to tax myself on every small and not-quite-necessary item. But we all must make these decisions ourselves everyday about whether something is necessary and helpful to our development, or whether it is possibly just a waste.

I mean, am I going to pay Huquq on the $6 DVD I have in my cupboard or the biography that I didn't absolutely need in my bookshelf? I'd really rather not. I'd prefer to just have an attitude of simplicity, try to be mindful of how I use my money, bearing in mind advice (to the seeker) to be 'content with little' and also the principle of moderation; and then pay Huquq on my savings (assuming I have saved at least the equivalent of 19 mithqals of gold).

About 3 yrs ago, I was almost ready to pay Huquq and these really cheap overseas flights were advertised. A friend was encouraging me to go and there was just a day or two before the offer would expire. I contacted my Huquq representative and described the situation, and asked him for advice. At the time, he said that a holiday could be seen as an expense and that I could purchase a ticket with an open heart.
I was slightly surprised by his response, and I did proceed to purchase it. But I really didn't need it, so I hope I would act with more inner assurance given a similar situation again.

Rani

Um, I haven't read up on it recently but here is some info below..

I'm quite sure that it is one of those laws that is not applied to baha'is yet. Just like it took a while for the law of Huquq to apply to believers around the globe.
Kinda cool though that it's the bridegroom that pays and not the bride's parents. hehe. ;-

93. No marriage may be contracted without payment
of a dowry # 66

The Synopsis and Codification, section IV.C.1.j.i.-v.,
summarizes the main provisions concerning the dowry.
These provisions have their antecedents in the Bayan.

The dowry is to be paid by the bridegroom to the
bride. It is fixed at 19 mithqals of pure gold for city-dwellers,
and 19 mithqals of silver for village-dwellers (see
note 94). Bahá'u'lláh indicates that, if, at the time of the
wedding, the bridegroom is unable to pay the dowry in full,
it is permissible for him to issue a promissory note to the
bride (Q and A 39).
With the Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh many familiar
concepts, customs and institutions are redefined and take on
new meaning. One of these is the dowry. The institution of
dowry is a very ancient practice in many cultures and takes
many forms. In some countries it is a payment made by the
parents of the bride to the bridegroom; in others it is a
payment made by the bridegroom to the parents of the
bride, called a "bride-price". In both such cases the amount
is often quite considerable. The law of Bahá'u'lláh abolishes
all such variants and converts the dowry into a symbolic act
whereby the bridegroom presents a gift of a certain limited
value to the bride.

The Kitabi-Aqdas. p. 207.

tonyfish58

As I understand it, You do not calculate Huquq on the necessities as these are exempt from Huquq - One must refer to the writings to decide for themselves what would constitute a necessity.

I would calculate the value of any owned item that is not a necessity and add them up including any savings. If they Total over 19 Mithqals, then Huquq is paid on this amount over19 Mithqals. The next year you go through the same process but you do not include the items that Huquq is already paid on. If you have not accumulated any extra wealth then no more Huquq is payable.

What I have not contemplated yet is "What if your non necessity item carries a debt? For example you buy a boat at a value of $45,000 and have a loan for 30,000 to pay off! What happens to the interest on the loan? In the end a $45,000 boat will cost you around maybe $55,000 when you add interest. So do you calculate the $45,000 minus the cost to carry the debt making Huquq payable on $35,000????

I see a job in the future for Huquq Accountants

Regards Tony

Rani

Yea, I just did a rough calculation, and as at 31st Oct, I think the value of 19 mithqals of gold in US dollars is $3976.33. Changeable daily in small fluctuations of course.

So it means that if after, you have paid all of your necessary expenses for the year, if you have acquired $3976, or the value of that in unnecessary items, then you pay 19% of whatever you have acquired if it is equivalent to that or if it exceeds that amount.
If you have only saved $1000, for eg. you pay nothing.

And and other have said, your house, and necessary furnishings and things you need to carry on your profession are exempt.

IndistinctDreamer

So if one made $3976 that would be 19 mithquals and they would pay 19%, what if someone makes $4000? they would still pay 19% of $3976 and the excess would not be counted as it did not reach another set of 19 mithqals??

Oh but thanks for the info about the dowry

Fadl

ID,

You are right. The excess of the huquq unit of 19 mithqals is not paid but it is carried over and added to the next calculation where it is paid once it reaches the payable amount of 19 mithqals once again.

Rani,

I would say this about paying huquq on CDs, etc. As a westerner (speaking about myself here) those impulse and convenience purchases are so easy and frequent, that it really adds up to a lot of change in a month. I know this from saving my receipts for purchases where I am basically blowing money on non-essentials. If I didn't do this, then really, I would be shorting my Haquq payment by quite a lot in a year, and, according to the law, that is not my money it is God's. So while a little CD here or there seems petty, it's almost like stealing from God's pocket to by some goodies.

I certainly don't see it as an austerity thing, either. There is nothing wrong with me buying goodies, I work, I can afford it, and Baha enjoins us to expend on ourselves and our loved ones and to enjoy what is lawful. So when I think about my purchase, I don't think "I don't need it, don't buy it, there is hardship in the world". Instead, I think " I don't need it, I want, can afford it, but also, I can spare what is due to God, so that it can benefit those with less." In this way, it feels like spiritual economy in action. The good works of my wealth increases and becomes purified, and I am mindful of my consumption which helps me remember simultaneously than I am a spiritual being.

Even if one doesn't do it my way, and I know there must be much better ways! Part of Huquq calculation must incorporate adding in needless expenditures to the sum of savings calculated, because other wise the money for those is essentially being "exempted" when it is not exempt class. That is why I like this way. I don't have to figure out how to do it later, and there is less chance that I fall in areers, aquire a debt, or let a bunch of money slip through the cracks and Huquq not paid on it.

It helps a lot, for me, to remember that the money is the least part of this. The law is very spiritual, and can do so much for our spiritual life when we impliment it.


Cheers