•"...the sexual practice of homosexuality is no more an acceptable activity than is h

Jan 2016
30
United States
#1
•"...the sexual practice of homosexuality is no more an acceptable activity than is h

I totally hearted disagree with this

From the United Kingdom, 1996[edit]

The Spiritual Assembly of the United Kingdom distributed a statement prepared for a London, UK, education group about the teaching about homosexuality within the school system. The Assembly stated that "the statement does not claim to be exhaustive, but it can be used with wisdom as part of a response to questions." Some excerpts from their statement are:

•"...the sexual practice of homosexuality is no more an acceptable activity than is heterosexual activity outside marriage"

This is upsurd.
 
Nov 2015
239
United States
#3
I would prefer we contain this to one thread, if we must discuss the matter.

And no sin is acceptable. No sin should be flagrant. The statement is valid. What has been inferred is perhaps invalid, but what is strictly stated by the assbly is true.
 
Jan 2016
30
United States
#4
I disagree with the assembly on this matter. In no way is this the case. How could one even believe this. Bahaullah states that homosexuality is immoral but not natural. However. Sex between a man and woman, regardless of wedlock is natural.
 
Nov 2015
239
United States
#5
I see what you mean. I think that the word "natural" can refer to what is the ideal nature, or it can mean what occurs in nature. Shoghi must mean the former, because we know that homosexual acts are performed by other animals. And the ideal Baha'i is chaste, even in marriage.

Let us meditate on the true meaning of chastity. If we can elucidate the benefits of this virtue, then it will be easier to bring lost sheep into the fold.
 
Jan 2016
30
United States
#6
I have a girlfriend that I want to marry, we are sexual active. I disregard the Spirtual Assembly view on the above statement and I regard the bible's interpertation as the whole hearted truth. Yes I'm a Bahai for life, and agree on all the other matters stated regarding the subject of Homosexuallity in the Bahai faith, but in regards to the above statement, I neither accept or agree with the Spirtual Assembly in these regards. This does not determine my my faith in Bahaullah, nor it should effect my standing in the faith. This is not written by Bahuallah nor the Bab so I disregard it. Ive believe this to be the truth. Bibles version, as we Bahais accept all holy scriptures.

2. The claim that homosexual sex outside of marriage is no worse than heterosexual sex outside of marriage.

The Bible condemns fornication (sexual acts outside of marriage) and it also condemns homosexual acts; both are serious sins against God. However, the Bible also distinguishes between these two types of serious sexual sins. In Deuteronomy 22:28-29, an unmarried man who sleept with an unmarried woman sins and was given a punishment, but the punishment was less than death. On the other hand, if any man had sexual relations with another man, the punishment was death, and the act itself is called by Sacred Scripture an abomination, the strongest word of condemnation used in the Bible:

[Leviticus]
{18:22} You shall not commit sexual acts with a male, in place of sexual intercourse with a female, for this is an abomination….
{18:29} Every soul who shall commit any of these abominations shall perish from the midst of his people.

Because of this same kind of sin, God destroyed the entire towns of Sodom and Gomorrah. But the many pagan towns, where fornication was common and widespread, God did not destroy.

[Genesis]
{13:13} But the men of Sodom were very wicked, and they were sinners before the Lord beyond measure….
{19:5} And they called out to Lot, and they said to him: “Where are the men who entered to you in the night? Bring them out here, so that we may know them.”…
{19:24} Therefore, the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulphur and fire, from the Lord, out of heaven.

The sin of homosexual sex is a more serious sin than that of heterosexual sex outside of marriage, because the former act is both a sexual act outside of marriage and a sexual act between persons of the same gender. The latter act is less offensive because the man and woman who have natural heterosexual sex outside of marriage might marry at some point in time, and then any subsequent acts of the same kind would be moral. But homosexual acts are so thoroughly disordered and unnatural that there is no circumstance in which they can be moral.
 
Oct 2014
1,797
Stockholm
#7
I see what you mean. I think that the word "natural" can refer to what is the ideal nature, or it can mean what occurs in nature. Shoghi must mean the former, because we know that homosexual acts are performed by other animals. And the ideal Baha'i is chaste, even in marriage.

Let us meditate on the true meaning of chastity. If we can elucidate the benefits of this virtue, then it will be easier to bring lost sheep into the fold.
Yes, Neal, you are quite right. It is chastity that is the heart of the matter here. Most of us here are first generation Bahá'ís. We bring all sorts of habits and values with us when we enter the Faith. We know the laws and rules of our Faith, try to follow them, but are surrounded by a society that upholds completely different values. Many of us stumble and fall repeatedly. I think an important aspect is that of forgiveness: first to forgive oneself, then to forgive others.

We can create all kinds of mind traps to ourselves, saying things like "My sin is much smaller than that sin". That's irreelevant. My responsibility is my sin. The sins of others are their reponsibility - basically none of my business, unless they harm me in a tangible way. "Live and let live" is a very simple rule. A very good virtue is that of tolerance. We talk a lot about love. I often wish that we talked less about love and practiced more tolerance.

And yes indeed, chastity is a very important thing to meditate upon. It has become awkward to discuss chastity in the West today. I even noticed that chastity has been excluded from the virtues propagated by the Virtues Project. Maybe that is food for thought, maybe that gives us a signal that we really have to ponder the deep meaning of chastity. We tend to associate it with sex: chastity as abstention from sex and dubious situations.

But honestly, chastity is so much more. This is a sensitive subject, so I might return to this text a few times, after thinking it over. I strongly suspect that by not meditating upon chastity, we risk limiting ourselves by applying too shallow an interpretation to this virtue.

Best

from

gnat
 
Sep 2010
4,521
Earth
#8
I see what you mean. I think that the word "natural" can refer to what is the ideal nature, or it can mean what occurs in nature. Shoghi must mean the former, because we know that homosexual acts are performed by other animals. And the ideal Baha'i is chaste, even in marriage.

Let us meditate on the true meaning of chastity. If we can elucidate the benefits of this virtue, then it will be easier to bring lost sheep into the fold.
Yes it has much wider ramifications, right into even our thoughts and beyond.

There are many passages in the writings about replacing wayward thoughts with Pure Thoughts. These wayward thoughts take many many paths and the less we dwell on the thought before we replace it, the better.

We have not considered as to the effects just our thoughts have, let alone when we take those thoughts and put them into practice in the world - Big subject

Regards Tony
 
Last edited:
Jan 2016
30
United States
#9
I believe the spirtual assembly has NO right to modify the laws set fort by Bahaullah. Homosexuallity is forbbin period. For the spirtual assembly to rank acts of homosexual acts and hetrosexual acts outside of marriage equal is upsurd. As it stated "the statement does not claim to be exhaustive" No it is not exhaustive. Bahauallah never stated this, I agree with Christ's interpertation as I stated above. We all should look at past messengers scriptures first rather listening to the spirtual assembly, because they are in no way "higher" or more "athoritive" than Chirsts, or Mumuhammad's prophecy and scriptures. Obviously the Spirtual Assembly disregards this and seems to believe they have athority over the passages of old from the phrophets of old.. {18:22} You shall not commit sexual acts with a male, in place of sexual intercourse with a female, for this is an abomination….
{18:29} Every soul who shall commit any of these abominations shall perish from the midst of his people.

You see, the spirtual assembly can cause strife in a Bahai believer, it did infact with me, I was honesltly about to leave the faith because of this nonsence. But somewhere in the midst of scriptures, bahaullah gave me reference to christs scriptures and muhammads.. I meditated on this after I read the Tablet of Ahmad "Rely upon god, and the god of your fathers" The god of my father, was God and his religion was Christ. I can never leave the Bahai faith, because I believe Bahuallahs scriptures are indeed holy and sent from god. The spirtual assembly seem to think they have more authority over scriptures and prophets of old. I read the spirtual assemblys letters and writing with a grain of salt. But I DO INDEED READ THE PROPHETS OF OLD AND BAHAULLAHS scriptures and as the Ultimate truth. Period. The spirtual assembly is no way messengers, or prophets of god, so I can take it or leave it. They are mere human, where as bahaullah and the other messengers and prophets are sent from god.

Allah U Abaha

Meditate on that.
 
Last edited:
Oct 2014
1,797
Stockholm
#10
How we do delete this thread, the conversation in the other is better, I got carried away here.. gnat, sorry for the anamosity, I apoligize as being a good bahai.
Dear mdef303, I consider it a human right to be carried away. Our Faith is a life-changing experience that involves the entirety of our lives. And this forum is kind of a virtual Bahá'í community where we can test views that we might not dare to express at home. No hard feelings - the forum serves its purpose. :)

best

from

gnat
 

Similar threads