Abdul Baha: Racist??? Someone explain--IN DETAIL

Dec 2014
44
Chicago
To Blinkey Bill

You said,

"...and sadly I am of an age that works against learning, having memory problems, also due to illness."

DON'T ACCEPT THAT!!! DO NOT ACCEPT THAT!!!!!

Sorry to hear about your illness. But DO NOT accept ANYTHING as inhibiting learning (even if it does. LOL!!!)

Listen to me: Go to a BodyTalk practitioner. Just TRY it. You can find one for your area, hopefully, by going to the IBA (International BodyTalk Association) webiste at https://www.bodytalksystem.com/

Start taking Blessed Thistle tea. Go here to order it:

https://www.mountainroseherbs.com/search?page=1&q=Blessed+Thistle&utf8=✓

Just DO it. Don't THINK about it. Just TRY it, and you must take Blessed Thistle REGULARLY, without fail. Most of us get lazy (or we just give up in disgust), with different stuff in life, such as physical exercise.

I suggest that, instead of a 5-minute steep, you steep that tea for 30 minutes. Talk to some homeopathic folks too, and see what they have.

There is a speed-reading program, which, surprisingly, helps increase memory. It's called EYE-Q:

https://eyeqadvantage.com/

I'm an old fart too, but I'm NOT giving up!! No way. WORK on it. Do you exercise? Does your illness, or age, prevent you from walking 3 times a week, from 20 to 40 minutes each time? If not, DO IT.

On the racial stuff, I'm sorry that Baha'is get upset because they've heard this stuff many times, and are tired of it. Well, it's unfortunate. But, its the responsibility you've been given. Sorry, but that's the deal.

I HAVE begun reading Sen's stuff, and, SO FAR, it's satisfying. But, it is SO unfortunate that people of this world are unaware of the ebb and flow of civilizations, especially the global African civilization that once existed.

Qur'an explains that every people have had their day. In fact, Qur'an says that there were civilizations that were even GREATER than any of the civilizations that existed during the time of Prophet Muhammad.

The Islamic belief is that, these civilizations--especially the ones that lasted thousands and thousands of years--were founded by a Prophet. Then, over time, that Prophet would become deified, and/or the people would simply lapse into immorality and ignorance, due to veering away from the pristine teachings of the Prophet.

This is a VERY important perspective. Because, when I read Sen's stuff, although I was fairly satisfied with the explanation, it would have been good had Abdul Baha explained that CENTRAL AFRICA was the very SOURCE AND HEART of the Egyptian Civilization, although Ethiopia was even more so.

And what HAPPENED is that those civilizations, for the reasons stated, had a fall. But what comes across even the CORRECT translations of his words is that the people of Central Africa NEVER had exposure to "education." I understand that, according to Sen's translation, Abdul Baha'i was clearly not saying that all Central Africans were just inherently savage, stupid, with no hope to change. I understand that Abdul Baha', according to Sen's translation, was not saying that.

But, what Abdul Baha DID miss (and perhaps this is no taint on him) is what I believe to be the true Qur'anic explanation regarding WHY those people were "savages." It had nothing to do with not ever having been exposed to "civilization" (if that's what European civilization could EVER have been called!!), no. It had to do with the fact that they veered away from WHOEVER was the Messenger that was sent to them.

You see the SAME THING happening, right in front of our eyes, to my Muslim brethren: virtually TOTAL darkness and ignorance beyond belief. This is because, as the Prophet Muhammad himself predicted, they have GONE AWAY from Qur'an; from sunna; from Allah. And this was prophesied by Prophet Muhammad in the following words:

"In the Latter Days, there will be nothing left of Islam but its name, and nothing left of the Qur'an but its pages."

So, whether you watch the corporate news media, such as CNN, or the left-wing, alternative media, such as The Voltaire Network, what you find, right before your eyes, is PROOF of what Qur'an says: that, when the people move away from their Messenger, they became as SAVAGES.

This is what Abdul Baha, unfortunately, DID NOT explain. Instead, he assumed (or appears to have assumed) that the people of Central Africa, or some people of Central Africa, had NEVER been exposed to "education," when, in fact, the had probably been the very ORIGINATORS of education, but then had a great fall.

You see it even in our country, the United States. OH, MY GOD!!! The ignorance is off the charts! What we see before us CERTAINLY has ZERO to do with the teachings of Yeshuwah ("Jesus"). Yet, the inhabitants of the United States are becoming, many of them, as savages. And, if the Baha'i Faith does not SAVE us [LOL!!!!!!!!] we are all DOOMED.

Seriously, if there does not occur a spiritual revolution, whether it come from Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Baha'i, or whatever, you'd better get you a machine gun, and hope you never have to use it.

I have not finished Sen's piece, but I will. SO FAR, as I said, it sounds pretty good. But, I do want to also know about the charge that The Bab was a slave trader, who not only bought and sold slaves, but had slaves himself. That's not good. Prophet Muhammad, even BEFORE he became a Prophet, was the head of a group that fought for the freedom of slaves. And he would not marry Khadijah until she freed her slaves.

So, for The Bab to go BACKWARDS, to a time before Prophet Muhammad, is inexcusable, if this charge against him is true. There is also mention of Shoghi Affendi's alleged countenancing of the publication of racist remarks made by a Baha'i that had ALSO been a member of a racist organization, and that Shoghi did not object to this man's words.

Anyway, yes, I'm doing my homework.

Don't take this personally [Don't you just HATE that expression!? :)

I'm just trying to dig this out--and I will.

And DON'T FORGET!! Work on that memory!! By the way, Blessed Thistle is also called Holy Thistle. Order it TODAY, and don't make any excuses! Then, when it arrives, USE it, and use it REGULARLY, maybe three times a day. DON'T GIVE UP!!!!
 
Dec 2014
44
Chicago
For Blinkey: THE CORTICES TECHNIQUE

Blinkey (Well, and anyone else), please begin to perform the Cortices technique on yourself, three times a day (at least). You can do it as many times a day as you wish, but I just suggested three times. You may learn the technique by viewing the following to, very short videos. The actual technique is demonstrated in Part 2, but I suggest that you view both Part 1 and Part 2:

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZWHZHqZkJY
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWCz4jyN2iU

Blinkey, do this regularly, and you will begin to see improvement in your memory, yes sir! Do the other things also: tea, exercise (if you can), etc.
 
Nov 2012
949
Florida
Josh, your post does not address the issue. You gave me quotes that I, as an ex-Baha'i, have already seen. Why?
As you are a former Baha'i, I did assume that you were aware of the quotes that I posted from Abdu'l-Baha. They were also posted for those who were not aware, and who may chance across this thread in the future.

For me, Abdu'l-Baha's life, deeds and words prove he was not a racist in any way. Sen's article that deals with questions similar to yours deserves a big :yes:
 
Dec 2014
44
Chicago
To Josh

Yes, I will be finishing Sen's article, and I will also be sending it to a friend in England so that he too can see it. I'm not trying to destroy, but there is NO WAY that, when I have a concern, I'm just going to remain quiet. I'm glad, in fact, to know that there are counter-arguments. I still want to clear up, if possible, the other things.

I would PREFER to KEEP my belief in the character of Abdul Baha that I had developed. But, I'm not going to shy away from charges made against him, or anyone.

I did note that the author of that video no longer allows comments. VERY suspicious. I am almost certain that, at one time, he did allow comments. So, why the change? Perhaps he does not want the Baha'i view to be expressed. But, I'm still digging.
 
Dec 2014
44
Chicago
To Blinkey: OOPS!!

I gave you two Cortices Technique videos to view, but forgot that you can't get videos, due to having Linux.

Well, please find a way to view those videos.

You can search on YouTube, and I'll give you the titles:

Part 1: The Bodytalk System The Cortices Technique - Preamble (Part 1)
Part 2: The Bodytalk System The Cortices Technique - Demo (Part 2)

If you can get out, you can get to a library, or to a friend's, or have someone bring you a laptop, and you can view those videos. As I said before the actual technique is demosntrate in Part 2, but please watch both parts.
 
Dec 2014
44
Chicago
To Matthew

Thank you for the references. I will check everything out. I had not read enough of Bahaullah's history to know that his FATHER had slaves, and that Bahaullah freed them.

This information is very good, and it will allow me to refute charges against The Faith by those who are going to ask me, "Why did you leave it," and all of that NON-SENSE, as I, personally, believe that "The Faith" is not "The Baha'i Faith," but FAITH. That's just me.

Anyway, any and all references will be greatly appreciated.
 
Oct 2013
1,208
United States
>There is also mention of Shoghi Affendi's alleged countenancing of the publication of racist remarks made by a Baha'i that had ALSO been a member of a racist organization, and that Shoghi did not object to this man's words.

I don't see anything other than Forel's writings on some topic were published in World Order magazine, and that Forel wrote other things that were racist (at some point in his life).

I'm not sure what that has to do with Shoghi Effendi?

My guess is that Forel's racism was prior to his joining the Faith.
 
Oct 2011
4,213
Quilimari,Chile
You said,

"...and sadly I am of an age that works against learning, having memory problems, also due to illness."

DON'T ACCEPT THAT!!! DO NOT ACCEPT THAT!!!!!

Sorry to hear about your illness. But DO NOT accept ANYTHING as inhibiting learning (even if it does. LOL!!!)

Listen to me: Go to a BodyTalk practitioner. Just TRY it. You can find one for your area, hopefully, by going to the IBA (International BodyTalk Association) webiste at https://www.bodytalksystem.com/

Start taking Blessed Thistle tea. Go here to order it:

https://www.mountainroseherbs.com/search?page=1&q=Blessed+Thistle&utf8=✓

Just DO it. Don't THINK about it. Just TRY it, and you must take Blessed Thistle REGULARLY, without fail. Most of us get lazy (or we just give up in disgust), with different stuff in life, such as physical exercise.

I suggest that, instead of a 5-minute steep, you steep that tea for 30 minutes. Talk to some homeopathic folks too, and see what they have.

There is a speed-reading program, which, surprisingly, helps increase memory. It's called EYE-Q:

https://eyeqadvantage.com/

I'm an old fart too, but I'm NOT giving up!! No way. WORK on it. Do you exercise? Does your illness, or age, prevent you from walking 3 times a week, from 20 to 40 minutes each time? If not, DO IT.

On the racial stuff, I'm sorry that Baha'is get upset because they've heard this stuff many times, and are tired of it. Well, it's unfortunate. But, its the responsibility you've been given. Sorry, but that's the deal.

I HAVE begun reading Sen's stuff, and, SO FAR, it's satisfying. But, it is SO unfortunate that people of this world are unaware of the ebb and flow of civilizations, especially the global African civilization that once existed.

Qur'an explains that every people have had their day. In fact, Qur'an says that there were civilizations that were even GREATER than any of the civilizations that existed during the time of Prophet Muhammad.

The Islamic belief is that, these civilizations--especially the ones that lasted thousands and thousands of years--were founded by a Prophet. Then, over time, that Prophet would become deified, and/or the people would simply lapse into immorality and ignorance, due to veering away from the pristine teachings of the Prophet.

This is a VERY important perspective. Because, when I read Sen's stuff, although I was fairly satisfied with the explanation, it would have been good had Abdul Baha explained that CENTRAL AFRICA was the very SOURCE AND HEART of the Egyptian Civilization, although Ethiopia was even more so.

And what HAPPENED is that those civilizations, for the reasons stated, had a fall. But what comes across even the CORRECT translations of his words is that the people of Central Africa NEVER had exposure to "education." I understand that, according to Sen's translation, Abdul Baha'i was clearly not saying that all Central Africans were just inherently savage, stupid, with no hope to change. I understand that Abdul Baha', according to Sen's translation, was not saying that.

But, what Abdul Baha DID miss (and perhaps this is no taint on him) is what I believe to be the true Qur'anic explanation regarding WHY those people were "savages." It had nothing to do with not ever having been exposed to "civilization" (if that's what European civilization could EVER have been called!!), no. It had to do with the fact that they veered away from WHOEVER was the Messenger that was sent to them.

You see the SAME THING happening, right in front of our eyes, to my Muslim brethren: virtually TOTAL darkness and ignorance beyond belief. This is because, as the Prophet Muhammad himself predicted, they have GONE AWAY from Qur'an; from sunna; from Allah. And this was prophesied by Prophet Muhammad in the following words:

"In the Latter Days, there will be nothing left of Islam but its name, and nothing left of the Qur'an but its pages."

So, whether you watch the corporate news media, such as CNN, or the left-wing, alternative media, such as The Voltaire Network, what you find, right before your eyes, is PROOF of what Qur'an says: that, when the people move away from their Messenger, they became as SAVAGES.

This is what Abdul Baha, unfortunately, DID NOT explain. Instead, he assumed (or appears to have assumed) that the people of Central Africa, or some people of Central Africa, had NEVER been exposed to "education," when, in fact, the had probably been the very ORIGINATORS of education, but then had a great fall.

You see it even in our country, the United States. OH, MY GOD!!! The ignorance is off the charts! What we see before us CERTAINLY has ZERO to do with the teachings of Yeshuwah ("Jesus"). Yet, the inhabitants of the United States are becoming, many of them, as savages. And, if the Baha'i Faith does not SAVE us [LOL!!!!!!!!] we are all DOOMED.

Seriously, if there does not occur a spiritual revolution, whether it come from Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Baha'i, or whatever, you'd better get you a machine gun, and hope you never have to use it.

I have not finished Sen's piece, but I will. SO FAR, as I said, it sounds pretty good. But, I do want to also know about the charge that The Bab was a slave trader, who not only bought and sold slaves, but had slaves himself. That's not good. Prophet Muhammad, even BEFORE he became a Prophet, was the head of a group that fought for the freedom of slaves. And he would not marry Khadijah until she freed her slaves.

So, for The Bab to go BACKWARDS, to a time before Prophet Muhammad, is inexcusable, if this charge against him is true. There is also mention of Shoghi Affendi's alleged countenancing of the publication of racist remarks made by a Baha'i that had ALSO been a member of a racist organization, and that Shoghi did not object to this man's words.

Anyway, yes, I'm doing my homework.

Don't take this personally [Don't you just HATE that expression!? :)

I'm just trying to dig this out--and I will.

And DON'T FORGET!! Work on that memory!! By the way, Blessed Thistle is also called Holy Thistle. Order it TODAY, and don't make any excuses! Then, when it arrives, USE it, and use it REGULARLY, maybe three times a day. DON'T GIVE UP!!!!
My goodness Dennis where do I start. loving smile

You say to me not to give up, good advise, but (don't you hate the but)
I have ME/CFS and yes it does effect the memory, I used to be able to read a book in a day, large books at that, but now because of whatever it is I have a few pages is my limit.
And no I can't exercise as you have mentioned, any type of physical effort of more than a couple of minutes causes me, first abnormal perspiration and physical collapse.
I have tried so many different remedies over the years, for the medical profession have no answers and no remedy. I have tried many other types of healing, all to no avail. I will tell you the truth dear friend I am tired, I have fought this illness for more than 15 years, before that I was a strong man, a person of the outdoors, even my work tough physical work, oh yes I had a great frame, many muscles. smile

I am not one to give up, but my friend after the interesting life I have had, and its many tests and trials, I am most happy to go to my next life, that is beyond some peoples understanding I know, but I am longing for the next big adventure in the spiritual life.
I have learnt to accept my illness, but never let it stop me from doing what I was still capable of, I even arose to pioneer and serve the faith with this illness, no I am a fighter my friend.

You show an enquiring mind, someone I would be happy to sit and talk with. You have studied I see and have good understanding of humankind.

You speak of many religions try to cover up their dark side, ah my friend that may be so, but also do not sweep under the rug the need and desire of people with an agenda to distort and lie about anothers faith also. I hate bias and prejudice with a vengence, do you think I would belong to the Baha'i faith if I considered some of the trash you have mentioned had a grain of truth, no no no.
You do understand that there are many people in the world today who are absolutlely terrified of truth and honesty, they fabricate, distort and try to turn people away from the Baha'i faith, Iran, well its leadership have been striving to kill and stamp out the faith for so many years, with these distortions, but they will not suceed, why, because the truth will suceed, people in Iran are already rising up in defence of Baha'is regardless of these distorted stories. These people do so against threats of punishment even death, do you think they would do so if they believed such stories?

No please enqiuire of learned people who are not biased, get a response direct from the Baha'i Center in Haifa, or from other independent souces who are truth seeking though, not from the enemies of the faith.

As I sad dear friend I look forward to your findings, what better for the faith than a person who can't be said to be a follower, this has weight of reason for many people, and for me also. But it must be the truth, no one should be afraid of the truth.

And I don't take what you say personaly.
Loving regards
bill
 
Oct 2013
1,208
United States
I, personally, believe that "The Faith" is not "The Baha'i Faith," but FAITH. That's just me.
I believe that too.

I think God's Cause is far bigger than can fit into any one religion or perspective, that God acts through people of all faiths to help guide the human race towards its destiny, and that Baha'u'llah's message, properly understood, is Universalist and encompasses all peoples and religions. And it's not about converting everyone else to the Baha'i religion!

“The aim of Bahá'u'lláh, the Prophet of this new and great age which humanity has entered, is not to destroy but to fulfil the Revelations of the past, to reconcile rather than accentuate the divergencies of the conflicting creeds which disrupt present-day society.” - Shoghi Effendi