Abdul Baha: Racist??? Someone explain--IN DETAIL

Jun 2014
1,081
Wisconsin
#21
Interesting. Now I'll note that I don't have access to the audio right now, nor do I (national holiday today) have time to watch it in its entirety and analyze every bit of it. I will try to (eventually), but busy busy busy today.

The first quote I can read (I have no access to the audio, as I stated), I actually recognize. It's the one talking about the people of Africa being savage. I do not know the authenticity of the original quote, but the YouTuber appears to have cut half of it off. First half indeed says the people of Africa are savage. Second half says that if you transplant them into another community, referring to African Americans as an example, they will be the equals of whites, and suggests that the difference is due to education, not skin color. I don't know if the whole quote is authentic, but I've seen it before, and seems to argue against racism, not for it when the whole is considered.

Second quote (or maybe it is supposed to be half of the first quote, without audio I cannot tell) says children of the same race and even household with the same education will develop differently. I have no idea what this has to do with racism. It cites Tablets of Abdul-Baha page 567. The page in question doesn't appear to read the same thing at all: Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Abdul-Baha Abbas, Pages 566-568

Third quote: Answered Questions 29 does read that, referencing "savages of Africa". See two paragraphs above for his distinction between aforementioned savages and the race of people from Africa, and Abdul-Baha's suggestion that "savagery" is due to lack of education rather than skin tone.

Next quote, won't check authenticity (thus I assume it is authentic) for sake of time, again references specific Africans, not the race as a whole. But please notice in the quote provided, Abdul-Baha straight-up says that science, knowledge, and advancement destroy barbarism. He's literally not talking about race, and is saying that as science progresses in Africa, practices like slavery and cannibalism will cease. It's not due to their race.

Next quote, from the Promulgation of Universal Peace. He's once again quite plainly saying lack of education is to blame. Not race. Heck, he even limits it to Central Africa in this quote. There are South, West, and East Africans of the same skin color. But they are not included in this.

Next one is from "Tablet to the Baha'is in China". I can't find this source anywhere. The quote given, in its FULL form is "A beast God created in human form." The video maker claims this is speaking about the African race... and without the ability to find the really obscure Tablet he quotes, I can't prove it isn't what he said...
Though I find it interesting that the quote is "A beast God created in human form." without ANY part of the quote referencing African people at all. I'd like to know why he omitted the part of the quote that verified Abdul-Baha was talking about race.
In short, it SEEMS like its being taken blatantly out of context, but with such an obscure book, I have absolutely no way of finding out (definitively) if this is the case (which may be why the YouTuber chose this specific book).

Next is a quote from August Forel?? I admit I possess no knowledge of who this person is. A very obvious racist by his quote though. Since he's not a prophet he's, you know, completely fallible whoever he is. The pictures before it seem to be connecting Shoghi Effendi with this racist person. I assume this to be guilt by association fallacy, and really wish I had access to audio to verify this at this time.

Next Quote is from Secret of Divine Civilization. I don't see how asserting the Persian race is not inferior to others is racist. Does the audio provide context or am I missing something here?? I looked upon the whole of the quote, and in the surrounding paragraphs and pages in Secret of Divine Civilization, he's chiding the Persian people from sliding backward, pointing out that God rose them up in the Old Testament to liberate the Jews and granted them a wealthy empire and rich abundant land to do so, and saying that they thus have no one to blame for their current state of poverty but themselves. This is simply a part of that rant stating they are not inferior to any other people naturally, so their own sloth and idleness is the fault of their fall from splendor.

Next is the word "THE BAB" in fiery letters, pictures of slavery and people doing drugs... I really wish I had audio.

Next we have... three things that to me are out of context. "Reincarnation", "Buried in crystal coffins", and "Allah written in semen on women's breasts daily." And an image of "Selection from the Writings of the Bab". I'm guessing contextually the maker of this is claiming these are sayings of the Bab left out of this book?? I'll get back to you on that I guess. I'm going to look in to it, but currently I'm on a public network, and I'm SURE that searching the phrase "Allah written in semen on women's breasts daily" to try to validate the sentence will be blocked on pornographic grounds.

There's a bunch of illuminati imagery now. Which just chips away at credibility now doesn't it??

Next there's a 1-800 phone number. Yeah, I really wish I had audio right now, this is getting strange with no context to any of the illuminatus imagery and phone numbers.

Now it says "THE FRIENDS OF GOD INTERNATIONAL" and I'm beginning to suspect it has no more quotes to offer.
Did a search, the Friends of God International is an organization that claims to follow the religion of Zoroaster, Jesus, and Mohammed. It validates many religions as being true, and was founded by a guy named Jamshid Rohani, who was born into a Baha'i family but became a Dervish, and says he has talked to various prophets like Buddha, Zoroaster, and Krishna. He says he is a Seer. It looks like a fairly interesting organization, to be honest.
The Friends of God International
"The Friends of God include people who call themselves Zoroastrians, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, Shintoists, Hindus, Jains, Sihks, Baha'is, Muslims, Wahidiyyah (Druze), Unitarians, Animists, Spiritists, Spiritualists, and "spiritual but not religious".

So apparently this group contains Baha'is as well. So I don't think they have anything to do with this video.

It then has some Christian Imagery, Zoroastrian Imagery, some pictures of people I do not know, then ends with "zoroastrian.angelfire.com"... which is a poorly-made Angelfire site that links to Friends of God and has one page titled "Jesus was a Zoroastrian", a page stating that Jesus was the Zoroastrian Saoshyant, not the Jewish Messiah, and that the Jewish God is unrelated to the God of Jesus, who is Ahura Mazda.

So it seems like a member of the Friends of God group made this video on their own.

There are no other quotes I can analyze unless some of them are pure audio. The quotes mentioned are, pretty much, directed at specific African peoples, and the first-or-second one seems to not exist in the text cited. Some of the ones directed at specific Africans are even used to illustrate a point that it is NOT their race holding them back, but rather a lack of education, so some are directly against Racism and not in support of it.

The one quote from Abdul-Baha that could be racist (if we were given the full context) is from a book so obscure I can't find the full context to see for myself. Which I kinda think was the point of using such a source.

The conspiracy-theory bating and rogue angelfire website are odd, and the plugs to a very interesting looking legitimate group seem like an attempt to establish credibility when the YouTuber is not actually in affiliation with this group.

I am, however, a bit disappointed at the lack of people willing to look into this. Challenging your faith, even with such bizarre, out of context quotes, is healthy and should be practiced regularly.

Sorry I have no audio and am unable to google the near-pornographic quote at the moment, I'll re-look at this in the private of my home later.
 
Oct 2011
4,213
Quilimari,Chile
#22
I gave you two Cortices Technique videos to view, but forgot that you can't get videos, due to having Linux.

Well, please find a way to view those videos.

You can search on YouTube, and I'll give you the titles:

Part 1: The Bodytalk System The Cortices Technique - Preamble (Part 1)
Part 2: The Bodytalk System The Cortices Technique - Demo (Part 2)

If you can get out, you can get to a library, or to a friend's, or have someone bring you a laptop, and you can view those videos. As I said before the actual technique is demosntrate in Part 2, but please watch both parts.
This is part of the problem dear friend, getting out, I am becoming more and more dependant on my beloved wife, as my strength gets less and less, I can still do many things for myself like shaving, but I no longer can reach my feet, I can no longer fully shower myself, I need help. I walk the aprox 17 meters to my office to use my computer, I collapse into my chair. but I still walk this small walk many times in the day, but you see I need rest after each time, but I still do it many times to keep some exersize.

I thank you for your advise and concern, but my race is run, my friend we all come to this stage at some time, this is my time, I am happy, I trust you can avoid it for many more years good luck to you.

Again most loving regards
bill
 
Dec 2014
44
Chicago
#23
To Blinkey...

Blinkey, I submit to you the following: Whatever your age; whatever your condition, you can make your situation BETTER. We're all going (Well, except myself, because I have decided to live for another 175 years...Yeah...I've "decided" that. :)

But, we can all improve the quality of our lives. You've no doubt heard that expression.

Blinkey, just TRY Cortices for the next 30 days, that's all, three times a day: Immediately when you get up, sit on the side of your bed and do Cortices. If you can't do it, your wife can. She would do exactly what Doc Veiltheim shows, in the videos, except she'd do it to YOU instead of herself. SHE would begin by placing one hand on the occiput area, and then tap your head and sternum with the other hand, while you inhale and exhale deeply, for two taps. And she'd then move to the next part of your head, and tap again, until she has covered the entire head up to the forehead, just as is shown in the videos.

It will not hurt to try this for 30 days. Do it in the morning, at noon, and in the evening, for example.

There is no cure for aging (so far). When the Most High pushes his delete button, on his keyboard, it doesn't go to the Recycle bin on his lap top. That's IT!!

But, there is a saying of The Holy Prophet Muhammad, that goes like this: "It ain't over till the fat lady sings!" Uh...I THINK that was his saying. :) Maybe it's an unreliable hadith, as they're called. But, it's a true saying.

I do not know how I will feel when the day comes that I'm barely getting around, so my "advice" to you, I admit, is coming from someone who ain't "there" yet. But, I believe I'm right...and you're wrong. :)

Also, CONSIDER the services of an ADVANCED BodyTalk practitioner, not an ordinary BodyTalk practitioner, if you can find one. If not, find an "ordinary" BodyTalk practitioner, and just see what happens. Give him, or her, 5 shots (sessions), and then assess how you feel; if there's any change.

Well, sit in a quiet place somewhere and meditate on it.

I will not mention what it is, but I once suffered something incapacitating, and I had given up totally. Of course, I'm a "young" old. Anyway, I DECIDED to not accept it, and it got conquered--with some help. It wasn't BodyTalk, it was acupuncture.

Age is age. But, still, do the Cortices technique for 30 days. Then, if you sense some improvement in your overall condition, I will tell you 4 other techniques you can do, but I'd have to show them to you via Skype, unless you happen to live in the Chicago area and I can come show you in person. I showed my sister-in-law, who lives in Israel, and she's doing all 5 techniques each day.

They are all non-invasive, and involve nothing strenuous, and they are techniques that you can do for yourself, except one of them, for which you'd need your wife, or somebody.

C'mon, Blinkey! Humor me!
 
Dec 2014
44
Chicago
#24
TO BLINKEY: "...for two taps" should have been, "...for two BREATHS." You inhale and exhale TWICE, as she taps your head and sternum. At you have finished inhaling and exhaling the second time, she moves one of her hands up from the occiput, to the next section, the parietal lobe. There you inhale and exhale twice, while she taps the head and sternum, alternately, and after that she moves one hand-length up to the next part, until she's done the forehead, AND SIDES (see video), and then you're done.
 
Oct 2011
4,213
Quilimari,Chile
#25
Dear Dennis

Also, CONSIDER the services of an ADVANCED BodyTalk practitioner, not an ordinary BodyTalk practitioner, if you can find one. If not, find an "ordinary" BodyTalk practitioner, and just see what happens. Give him, or her, 5 shots (sessions), and then assess how you feel; if there's any change.
It must be great being American. big smile
I live in Chile my friend a different world, also not in the city out in the sticks.

So humour me my friend and let me relax in peace, and enjoy my connection with the outside world here in the forum.
 
Dec 2014
44
Chicago
#26
I ain't letting you off the hook, Blinkey. If you can't see a BT practitioner, you CAN do the Cortices technique a few times a week.

Relax in peace. But just consider Cortices. It's not URBAN and hurried.

But, I've said my piece.

If you start doing it, let me know, over time, if you notice anything.

Uh, "being American," for me, AIN'T all what it's cracked up to be, but that's just me. I'll spare you the details. Okay, we can drop the Cortices thing for now [FOR NOW].
 
Oct 2011
4,213
Quilimari,Chile
#27
Uh, "being American," for me, AIN'T all what it's cracked up to be, but that's just me. I'll spare you the details. Okay, we can drop the Cortices thing for now [FOR NOW].
I know I have spent time there, my American friends were amazed when I refused the offers to get me a green card and assist me move to the country.

Had trouble explaining to them there were many other places I considered better, like Australia. Poor things being untravelled they had no idea of what I was talking about.
Even the poor girls in Maceys were amazed I spoke English, when telling them I was Australian, oh what ignorance abounds in the USA.
But I did enjoy seeing the country and have many friends over there.
 
Oct 2013
697
Glenwood, Queensland, Australia
#28
Good morning very dear friend Dennis

Before you read, please be aware that I am not replying directly, but only very indirectly, to your post that heads this thread. In case you wish to skip this post.

There is a saying. Be very careful what you wish for - you just might get it.

Though not posting often, my eyes still keep me in contact with this forum. Perhaps not in as much detail as most participants, but sufficient for my need. When I read your post asking how to leave this Faith, though saddened it was accepted, as every person must make their own choices and live accordingly by the results. But I wondered why you came here to ask and not to your Local Assembly?

But an even more important issue has raised its head at this thread. Every person must investigate truth for themself, and whatever any person may read through this forum or any other non-Authorative manner must, even when accompanied by quotes, still be regarded as no more than the opinion of another and not necessarily correct. Oh yes, the quote(s) will be correct, but the thoughts that proceed from it/them may not be. That said, a glimmer of truth can be found even in a untruth, and that glimmer can aid one in their own understanding of the truth. Provided one's own opinion / understanding is not taken by the individual as be all and end all, these can continuously be shared amongst each other in a spirit of warmth, love and understanding.

I did not read through more than the first two paragraphs of your leading post Why, when you are quite capable of researching the answer yourself? That, and I found the tone unsettling, and did not wish to unsettle myself further needlessly.

I know that your intent and capacity is well up to the task, and that you are most capable at harmonious sharing of your discoveries as you do so.

Which returns me in a full circle to my opening statement - be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it. Were you to investigate your question for yourself, you will need to do so with courage and with honesty to yourself. That may not be easy, for you will most asuredly discover truths that you do not wish to discover.

With most warm regards

Romane
 
Oct 2011
4,213
Quilimari,Chile
#29
Dennis

Have you considered posting you question in Planet Baha'i, I am sure you will get a rapid and stimulating conversation there?
 
Dec 2014
44
Chicago
#30
To Romane

"But I wondered why you came here to ask and not to your Local Assembly?"

Well, I have one answer, and one confession. First, the confession. I already knew how to un-declare. But I wanted to see what others would suggest, as well as what the reaction would be. Happily, the reaction was what I felt that it SHOULD have been: civil and spiritually in tune (as far as I'm concerned).

As regards asking my local assembly, I mentioned, in one of my posts, that I am in the delicate situation of WORKING FOR The Faith at one of its facilities on this planet. And, although my experience with Baha'is has been that Baha'is are gentle people, I'm sorry, but I cannot trust that an open announcement of my "departure" from The Faith would not be met with pressure for me to quit my gig. I DO NOT trust ANY human being, no matter what he calls himself or herself religiously, THAT much. I just do not.

I have seen a couple of ugly things, where I work, that came from "the powers that be," and they rattled me, and I filed them. Now, if this were 20 years ago, I'd just quit. But, at THIS age, I can't do that. Nobody wants to hire anyone that's over 50 years old, if they can help it. And I'm well over 50. So, I have to cling to this job for as long as possible. This is mere survival. Some might wish to tag it hypocrisy, that I would work FOR The Faith, yet "leave" it for "another" faith. My answer to that would be, where I work there are Catholics, Baptists, Jews, and people of other religions--which MIGHT prove that I would be safe to tell my employers the real deal about my religious beliefs. But, as I said: I can't trust that. Wish I could, but I do not. Hope that answers your question.

"...you are quite capable of researching the answer yourself?"

Yes I am. But I don't mind a little help, and I got some help here. I was referred to a website that adequately [VERY adequately] answered some of my questions, and I am satisfied with those answers. The gentleman, named Sen, is obviously a scholar, or at least he knows the language enough to translate it properly, and he took time and went into much depth to explain what the real deal was with regard to Abdul Baha'is statements about African peoples. I'm satisfied with the answer. I have more answers I want.

But, yes, I can, and am, doing the research. But PART of that research was to come HERE. Why make my life any more difficult than it already has been [three marriages!!]. I've been in this marriage 25 great years, and counting, and my wife is my life blood.

Anyway, I knew I'd get strong reaction, and I did. But, OUT of that reaction can a very, very good online reference that I read most of, and that I'll finish tonight as soon as I get home, unless my wife didn't get around to cooking, and I'll have to cook.

Believe me, dude, at my age, finding unpleasant results for what I "asked for" is not going to rattle me, not after all the crap I've been through in my life. Ha!

I sometimes think that, if someone put a pistol to my head and said, "You're dead," I'd go, "FINALLY! THANKS!!!" Probably not. But, I doubt that there's anything I could find that would rattle me so much. I might not LIKE it, but, heck. I'm not 19. :)

There is a reason [one you should be able to guess easily] that my "tone," with regard to race, can be NOT ONLY angry, but BRUTAL. Unless one has been impacted--ALL OF ONE'S LIFE, 24/7--by race, then one CANNOT know what it means to have your life constantly interrupted by this fictitious thing called "race."

I am not a smiley-faced, "Jesus Loves You" Christian. Nor am I a "gentle" Baha'i. I am a human being. I have EMOTIONS. Hit me, and I MIGHT smile. OR, I might lay you out.

I make no claims to being a model ANYTHING. I've done very well, and continue to do so. But, I feel very comfortable with being HUMAN; having faults; not measuring up perfectly to the IDEAL. I understand that, out of all of God's Attributes, His Attribute of Mercy over-rules all His other Attributes.

And I allow myself to be merciful TO myself. Because I have learned, in my years on this planet, that if you DON'T be merciful to yourself, others WON'T--most of the time. And those "others" are often so-called RELIGIOUS people.

I spent 9 months helping a prostitute get out of "The Life," or "The Game," as pimping and ho'ing is called. When I took the woman to the mosque, everybody SQUIRMED, the hypocrits!! Only ONE of them acted HUMAN, God bless him forever, and he even helped me take a bed that she need to her home.

I am Blessed that I was successful in taking her crap for 9 months, and, two years after that, she left The Game. I was fortunate to have lived to see her youngest daughter graduate from Columbia College in Chicago. And her mom thanked ME for it, and I cried my behind off--in joyful tears.

I am merciful to myself. So, yes, I can be emotional, and display a "tone" that is not "Baha'i-like." I try not to ever abuse anyone, but my place is on earth, not in the clouds. If my tone disturbed you, well....

There are few groups that are devoid of taint, INCLUDING The Baha'i Faith. Ever since the GREAT lessons I learned from that former prostitute, in her compassion towards others, I'm NOT the type of person that would throw the baby out with the dishwater. But, there ARE things I find intolerable: like racism. On THAT, I'm not so tolerant, and I admit that.

I have even accepted ridiculous doctrines that I KNOW are crap, as long as, for the most part, everything else was cool. So, no, I'm not so fanatic like that. I just have CERTAIN things that MUST fall in line with how I think.
 

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