Bahai Beliefs

Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#11
Great to see you here Venu. It would be right to point out from the start that Abdul'baha's explanations are authorised by Baha'u'llah, no one knew the Revelation of Baha'u'llah any better than Abdul'baha. Baha'u'llah gifted Abdul'baha to us as 'The Mystery of God' and it is Abdul'baha that is the of 'Servant of Baha'.

Thus the Authority given to Abdul'baha cannot be seperated from the Message of Baha'u'llah.

This is the full explanation (Also new translation) that is referenced in the talk of your above quote.

The Trinity
1Question: What isthe meaning of the Trinity and of its three Persons?
(Some Answered Questions)
www.bahai.org/r/534754631

No Baha'i can offer a better explanation as this explanation has the authority given of God, we can only offer thoughts.

I will try to get back later to some of your other points posted above.

Regards Tony
Abdul Baha seems to be separating God from His creation if I understand him correctly. From a Hindu perspective, there is the Absolute Spirit (Unmanifested God) and Creation (Manifested God). The reason Creation is considered Manifested God is because it is nothing but solidified vibratory power of God. Think about it this way. An ocean is a huge mass of water but an ice berg in the ocean is made from the ocean's water and is floating in the ocean. So you can say a little bit of the ocean has become the ice berg or the ocean is in the ice berg and the ice berg is in the ocean. Like wise, Creation is in God and God is in the Creation.

From a scientific perspective, something cannot come out of nothing. From what did this creation come out of and if it did not come out of God, who made the 'thing' out which this creation came? If God made the 'thing' out of which this creation came, how did God make the 'thing'? It all goes back to God. Everything came out of God and God's creative intelligence (only begotten Son) and vibratory power (Aum - Holy Ghost - the Word) made the creation possible.

When God first thought of creation, the thought process creation a vibration ( Aum of the Hindu Scriptures, the Word of the Bible, Ameen of the Arabs, Amen of Europeans). From the word came the light which solidified in to physical mass. That truth applies to the human body as well which is why the Bible says the Word was made flesh. The human mind and body came out of AUM and chanting AUM will harmonize the mind and body and help connect the soul with Spirit. You are the proof of Trinity. Your soul represents Father, your body represents Holy Ghost and the Creative Intelligence within you which is centered at the spiritual eye (point between the eye brows) represents the Son (only begotten Son). If you realize the true nature of your self as Bahaullah is asking you to do, then you realize that you always have been one with God and like Jesus you can say "I and my Father are one"; "I am in the Father and the Father is within me". You can also perform miracle like Jesus did. The best way to realizing your self is through meditation which Bahaullah also encouraged. When you meditate, your spiritual eye opens and your body no longer appears solid. You will see it as light coming out of AUM vibration (Matthew 6:22).

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.......And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us - Bible

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. - John 14:12

Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. - Matthew 21:21

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light - Matthew 6:22
 
Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#12
Is that so??

But even so, miracles or not, Jesus' body is observed to follow certain laws of physics (constancy of form, inability to be in the same place as another physical thing, inability to instantaneously teleport) that his form is observed to not follow post resurrection. Is this form the same body, that once looked different and always physically interacted with the world?? For now the form looks different and can seemingly choose whether or not physical interaction happens.

If this is the case, again I don't see how one can call that a physical resurrection. Whether it is as I believe it is, or whether it is as it is described here, it is so much more than a physical resurrection.

How could it be a bodily resurrection in the case of Jesus, if body consciousness is delusory confinement, as is stated in the quote?? Certainly post-Resurrection Jesus would be free of such confinement, one would think.
I was referring to fact that the physical body of a human being cannot walk on water. That should have been obvious from the context. Jesus' resurrection was both spiritual and physical which is why you see him do miraculous things like appearing in locked rooms and also normal activities like eating food that a physical body made of flesh is used to.
 
Sep 2010
4,461
Normanton Far North Queensland
#13
Abdul Baha seems to be separating God from His creation if I understand him correctly. From a Hindu perspective, there is the Absolute Spirit (Unmanifested God) and Creation (Manifested God). The reason Creation is considered Manifested God is because it is nothing but solidified vibratory power of God. Think about it this way. An ocean is a huge mass of water but an ice berg in the ocean is made from the ocean's water and is floating in the ocean. So you can say a little bit of the ocean has become the ice berg or the ocean is in the ice berg and the ice berg is in the ocean. Like wise, Creation is in God and God is in the Creation.

From a scientific perspective, something cannot come out of nothing. From what did this creation come out of and if it did not come out of God, who made the 'thing' out which this creation came? If God made the 'thing' out of which this creation came, how did God make the 'thing'? It all goes back to God. Everything came out of God and God's creative intelligence (only begotten Son) and vibratory power (Aum - Holy Ghost - the Word) made the creation possible.

When God first thought of creation, the thought process creation a vibration ( Aum of the Hindu Scriptures, the Word of the Bible, Ameen of the Arabs, Amen of Europeans). From the word came the light which solidified in to physical mass. That truth applies to the human body as well which is why the Bible says the Word was made flesh. The human mind and body came out of AUM and chanting AUM will harmonize the mind and body and help connect the soul with Spirit. You are the proof of Trinity. Your soul represents Father, your body represents Holy Ghost and the Creative Intelligence within you which is centered at the spiritual eye (point between the eye brows) represents the Son (only begotten Son). If you realize the true nature of your self as Bahaullah is asking you to do, then you realize that you always have been one with God and like Jesus you can say "I and my Father are one"; "I am in the Father and the Father is within me". You can also perform miracle like Jesus did. The best way to realizing your self is through meditation which Bahaullah also encouraged. When you meditate, your spiritual eye opens and your body no longer appears solid. You will see it as light coming out of AUM vibration (Matthew 6:22).

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.......And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us - Bible

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. - John 14:12

Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. - Matthew 21:21

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light - Matthew 6:22
I need to read this later, sorry am busy at the moment.

Can I suggest you read a provisiomal translation of Abdul'baha's 'Tablet of the Universe'. As it is a provisional translation, one must not put too much importance on every word. But this tablet explains creation in detail and is amazing.

Tablet of the Universe

This is one scientists first look at it;

One Physicist’s first Look at Abdu’l-Baha’s Tablet of the Universe

I think you will enjoy the concepts that it contains and gives us a better idea of the knowledge that refelected through Abdul'baha.

Regards Tony
 
Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#14
I need to read this later, sorry am busy at the moment.

Can I suggest you read a provisiomal translation of Abdul'baha's 'Tablet of the Universe'. As it is a provisional translation, one must not put too much importance on every word. But this tablet explains creation in detail and is amazing.

Tablet of the Universe

This is one scientists first look at it;

One Physicist’s first Look at Abdu’l-Baha’s Tablet of the Universe

I think you will enjoy the concepts that it contains and gives us a better idea of the knowledge that refelected through Abdul'baha.

Regards Tony
Thank you for sharing. It is very interesting and reinforces my own understanding of God' creation. I don't find anything in the Tablet or the Physicist's analysis that proves the concept of Trinity wrong. I just wanted to share some of my own comments.

“Divine and all-encompassing Wisdom hath ordained that motion be an inseparable concomitant of existence, whether inherently or accidentally, spiritually or materially. This movement must be governed by some check or rein, some regulator or director, otherwise order will be disrupted and the spheres and bodies will fall from the heavens. For this reason God brought into being a universal attractive force between these bodies to hold sway over them and govern them, a force deriving from the firm ties, the mighty correspondence and affinity that exist between the realities of these limitless worlds"

I agree. Motion is an inseparable concomitant of existence because the nature of God's creation is change and motion represents constant change. This truth applies to human life as well and even human actions must be governed by some check given that God has given free will to human beings and they are capable of misusing it and committing great evil like Hitler has done to Jews and Iranian Muslim leaders are doing to the Bahais. That check against the human mistakes is the law of karma. The universal attractive force that Abdul Baha is referring to exists between stars and planets because it is derived or inherited from the attractive force (Love) that exists between Spirit (Sat or Purusha) and Holy Ghost (Aum or Prakriti). Spirit (Unmanifested Absolute) first spawned Holy Ghost from it's cosmic energy and since the latter was unstable and chaotic, Spirit restored stability and order to Holy Ghost by attracting it with Love. To manifest creation, Spirit then impregnated Holy Ghost with His undifferentiated creative intelligence which resulted in Holy Ghost giving birth to the creation in which the differentiated creative intelligence (only begotten Son) is reflected. The same principle is seen in the union between the Sun and Earth wherein the Sun impregnates the Earth with his vital energy (sunlight) and Earth gives birth to various life forms. Without sunlight, no life on earth is possible. Likewise, due to the attractive force that exists between man and woman, when they decide to physically unite, man impregnates woman with his vital fluid and woman gives birth to a new human being.

Know thou that the expressions of the creative hand of God throughout His limitless worlds are themselves limitless. Limitations are a characteristic of the finite, and restriction is a quality of existent things, not of the reality of existence. This being the case, how can one, without proof or testimony, conceive of creation being bound by limits? Gaze with penetrating vision into this new cycle.

This is totally consistent with the truths found in the Hindu scriptures. Creation goes on endlessly in cycles. The cosmos is supposed to be endless. Everything in God's creation is cyclic. We just see smaller cycles inside bigger cycles. Bahaullah in some of his correspondence in fact refers to the Hindu theory of cycles mentioned in Yoga Vashistha that was translated in to Persian during the 15th century. Bahaullah apparently did not agree with the mainstream Christian and Islamic belief that the creation is only a few thousand years old.

These are spiritual truths relating to the spiritual world. In like manner, from these spiritual realities infer truths about the material world. For physical things are signs and imprints of spiritual things; every lower thing is an image and counterpart of a higher thing.

Newton's third law of motion is the counterpart of the law of karma. Likewise, the physical body is the counterpart of the non-physical body that cannot be seen with the physical eyes. It can be seen with the spiritual eye when it opens during deep states of meditation. When the physical body dies, the non-physical body which is the storehouse of the mind, survives and creates another physical body to work out the karma left over from the past incarnations which is why we find people with different abilities and disabilities. Human birth and death is cyclic just as every other phenomenon in God's creation is cyclic. We can spend as much time as we want investigating this but we will never be able to find a process that God created which is not cyclic.
 
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