Before we were born....

Aug 2014
1,418
Blue Planet
One could, I suppose say that coming into being is development from a very low state into a higher state. It could be a secondary meaning to the passage while at the same time saying the obvious literal meaning. But this is someone saying this on behalf of the Guardian, so perhaps we shouldn't assign multiple meanings but just take the outward literal meaning.
I think I need to read it in the original language (has it been persian?) To see the exact words which are used. Your reference is a good food for thought :)
 
Jul 2017
341
Kettering, Ohio USA
I've added a couple of sentences for context. The context says that we didn't exist in the spiritual world before our birth.,

"The soul or spirit of the individual comes into being with the conception of his physical body. "

The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The Soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.

Helen Hornby, “Lights of Guidance”
 
Aug 2014
1,418
Blue Planet
I've added a couple of sentences for context. The context says that we didn't exist in the spiritual world before our birth.,

"The soul or spirit of the individual comes into being with the conception of his physical body. "

The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The Soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.

Helen Hornby, “Lights of Guidance”
this makes more meaning now.
well, if we say that our soul is a ray of the sun of the Manifestation, reflected on the mirror of our hearts, yes, indeed we didn't have this mirror medium before being born into this world. the rays of the sun still existed, but it was not individualized.
Then, I wonder where all these stories of those who have NDE come from, when they say they realized that we existed before being born. Many of the people with such stories, are truthful people. The most famous of all, Emanuel Swedenborg who speaks about this topic in almost all his books.
have you read anything by him?
 
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Sep 2010
4,627
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
It may be we do not exist in a conscious state until we have been given this life to grow our spiritual limbs. To learn what true Love.

Abdul'baha gives a lot of good thought on this subject, if you read this link at this location, there are a few topics on this.


We are told the Soul is immortal, that to me could mean it is somehow always emanating from the Messsenger as they emanate from God? There has to be a Oneness to it all though, so I see the mind and soul is somehow all connected.

Regards Tony
 
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Jcc

Mar 2013
600
Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
This is a wonderful discussion, thank you Maryam for bringing it up. It’s not a question that anyone is going to answer definitively. One way to look at the question of origination is to consider that in God’s perspective there is no before or after, but from our perspective there is, so we say that a soul originates at conceptIon, but God knows this soul from eternity, before it was created. Does the soul choose to be born, or does God choose when the soul is born? Maybe from God’s perspective of eternity, it’s the same thing.

There are many views on metaphysics, which probably have influenced each other, including Kabala, Greek philosophy, Zoroastrian, Hindu and Buddhist, Christian and Islamic. Baha’u’llah has addressed these topics in many tablets, adjusting the language to suit the needs of the person He is writing to. One of them was the tablet to Manikji Sahib, who was a Zoroastrian from India, living in Baghdad. While addressing questions of metaphysics that were asked, Baha’u’llah cuts across Zoroastrian, Hindu and Muslim perspectives, but most importantly emphasizes the need to be concerned with the needs of the age we live in, which puts aside metaphysical questions in favor of practical concerns.
 
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Jul 2017
341
Kettering, Ohio USA
this makes more meaning now.
well, if we say that our soul is a ray of the sun of the Manifestation, reflected on the mirror of our hearts, yes, indeed we didn't have this mirror medium before being born into this world. the rays of the sun still existed, but it was not individualized.
Then, I wonder where all these stories of those who have NDE come from, when they say they realized that we existed before being born. Many of the people with such stories, are truthful people. The most famous of all, Emanuel Swedenborg who speaks about this topic in almost all his books.
have you read anything by him?
I believe that some NDEs are valid, but we shouldn't blindly believe in everything in everything they said. I read part of Heaven and Hell about life after death from Swedenborg, and I don't believe him when he says that he learned this from his own experience. I have my doubts about him. Susan or Trailblazer believes in him, but I don't. I give more credence to a book called The Afterlife Revealed which comes from the accounts of mediums. I think most so-called mediums are phony but there are a few that are genuine. The accounts from The Afterlife Revealed, a lot of them at least, are compatible with what the Writings say, but I don't feel the same way about Swedenborg.
 
Jul 2017
341
Kettering, Ohio USA
We are told the Soul is immortal, that to me could mean it is somehow always emanating from the Messsenger as they emanate from God? There has to be a Oneness to it all though, so I see the mind and soul is somehow all connected.
That may be. Certainly the mind and soul are connected, though in this life the material world has influence through the brain.
 
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Jul 2017
341
Kettering, Ohio USA
One way to look at the question of origination is to consider that in God’s perspective there is no before or after, but from our perspective there is, so we say that a soul originates at conceptIon, but God knows this soul from eternity, before it was created. Does the soul choose to be born, or does God choose when the soul is born? Maybe from God’s perspective of eternity, it’s the same thing.
Baha'u'llah does say in the 3rd Arabic Hidden Word that God knew His love for us, therefore He created us. In other words God knew us before we were created. I don't think we have any say though in choosing to be born, though. I don't think that follows.
 
Feb 2019
253
Chicago
If man (soul) is made in the image of God as the Bible says and God was never created, how could man (soul) be ever created. The soul is immortal. It was never born and never will it die. It merely enters a physical body and leaves it after it is done using that body. The soul is part of God and plays a role within God because God's "creation" is actually a manifestation or a projection of God's thoughts within God's consciousness which appears are real to man but is simply a motion picture in God's consciousness and that's why Bahaullah said the world is an illusion.
 
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